Emergence in DayZ; What is it? Is it good? KOS'ing?

[FlimFlamm 509]

"Emergence"  and complexity science is currently a fairly open field of study and we as of yet have no formalized definitions or procedures for studying emergence within complex systems. In fact, one of the definitions floating around for "complex systems" which is something that gives rise to "emergence" entails that "to even begin to investigate a complex system in the first place we need to create new analytical tools.". With that in mind I will try and be as objective as possible, but my definitions and arguments might inevitably in some ways only apply to DayZ based emergence and not a more holistic description of emergence. I hope it proves as interesting to others as I find it!

 

I know this is a massive post, just over 4k words, but I really think it is an interesting read and deserving topic. I have highlighted some of it in red as a kind of crude TL;DR (as all TL;DR's are)

 

What is Emergence, and what is emergent gameplay?

 

Spoiler

When a "system" has the right ingredients, something special can sometimes happen and complex things can be produced from many simple parts. Systems with "the right ingredients for emergence", or for our purposes, let's call them parts and paramaters, we refer to as "complex systems". Emergence is the result of various simple parts and paramaters within a system working together in some way which produces a novel or seemingly complex or organized result. The way ant colonies achieve their organizational prowess is by each ant having a simple set of rules that they follow, and the resulting organizational network and hierarchy is what we might call an "emergent property" or function. Essentially emergence is a fancy way of labeling an example of complexity arising naturally from simplicity.

 

Emergent properties, products and functions depend entirely on the way their individual parts interact. If you change or alter one or more of the parts and parameters which enables an emergent thing to function or exist, then you can drastically alter, improve, or impair the emergent thing itself. A good example to conceptualize how drastic an effect small changes in parts or parameters can have could be to imagine how different life would be (if any life at all) if the earth was slightly smaller or larger and our gravity therefore slightly different. This is an extreme example that is perhaps impossible to even begin to conceptualize, but it is an excellent illustrator of the fragility and sometimes unpredictability of emergence within complex systems.

 

DayZ, being the system that it is, with it's many parts and parameters, it's many players and AI controlled entities, the geography and all other mechanics, does in fact produce what we might loosely refer to as "emergent game-play". In the current version of the standalone, many of the emergent aspects of game-play are quite basic but they are there. An easy example is the "Friendly Dance/Wiggle". When players spot one another for the first time one or both of them might wiggle back and forth with the lean commands. We could call this a form of emergent player behavior, albeit a simple and basic/uninteresting one. The devs likely did not predict or intend for leaning to be used in such a way, but through many interactions and time it became commonplace as a visual language to communicate friendliness.  Basic paramaters and parts which together can accomplish more complex functions is the essence of emergence and essentially all simulations fall under this category.

 

Simple but interesting examples of emergence in DayZ come in the form of trends in player interaction, and the various features of the game which facilitate and affect those interactions. Firstly, people tend to carry weapons, and so inherent in player interaction is the potential to shoot and kill one another with a good deal of ease. Players do not always kill one another, but the possibility is there and certain trends emerge which make use of and take into account this mechanic. Something so simple as the mechanic of leg breaking also has an interesting effect on the way these interactions can play out. Breaking a leg is as easy as shooting someone in the knee, and so as a rudimentary way to capture people, players would in the original mod break the legs of others and demand they drop all their weapons. Once in this state only morphine could fix their leg, and so they were slow and constantly vulnerable. This mechanic lead to the first forms of capture and torture, the most severe of which is breaking someones leg in the middle of nowhere, with no zombies or anything, and then abandoning them there to rot for a very long time. Leg breaking was never designed to be used as a means of capturing players, nor were the isolated geographical areas of Chernarus meant to be used as banishment zones. The way players interacted with one another and used the mechanics available resulted in this so called emergent gameplay that we sometimes hear the devs referring to.

 

Is emergent game-play a good thing?

 

Spoiler

The standalone has taken inspiration from emergent aspects of game-play from the vanilla mod, like player captivity via leg breaking, and enhanced them by adding actual restraint mechanics like handcuffs and the tying of hands with tape or rope. They have also enhanced the friendly wiggle by adding actual friendly hand gestures which is simply an emulation of what the friendly wiggle achieved in an emergent way and natural way. Evidently many of the emergent aspects of game-play from the mod have come to define the "overall DayZ experience", and the goal of at least some of the developers seems to be to try and facilitate more of them.

 

A notable example of emergent game-play from the DayZ mod and is the occurance of "holding people up". People randomly robbed other players for giggles, and other players took inspiration from it and all of a sudden player hold-ups became incredibly popular. The trend of player robbery became an integral part of the evolving and emergent "DayZ experience". The way players used and operated tents and vechicles in the mod also managed to produce emergent trends and strategies. Players would hide their tents in isolated areas, then as a result some players would hunt in isolated areas. The best place to hide your tent depended on the general strategies of all the other players and where they would think to check. Sometimes groups of players would hide a bunch of tents in the same area, but generally this was a bad idea because when found everything was lost.

 

Once basebuilding came along with the various mods, a whole new realm of emergent game-play came into existence. With modular forms of basebuilding, individuals and groups were able to build and place their structures  and loot deposits according to a whole new set of rules. If they had a great deal of manpower they could fortify lucrative locations in medium or large cities. Individuals could build secure loot deposits in previously impossible locations becasue the risk of getting found no longer meant the loss of everything. The fact that hardworking groups had the means to protect and accumulate resources meant it was then possible to operate stable large groups out of static base locations. The fact that multiple groups operated out of static locations accross the map meant that lasting relationships between these groups, whether cooperative or hostile, were able to form. The most spectacular forms of emergent gameplay on the mod existed when multiple groups were vying for control of their local regions, and clashing with one another in ongoing wars and alliances with groups that consisted of identifiable leaders and hierarchies with members branching out into specific functions that helped the overall group.

 

The emergence of micro and macro communities in the from of groups interacting with other groups creates a very dynamic chernarus where almost anything can happen. You can be a survivor on the coast and witness a burning aircraft crash into a hill nearby and deal with the ensuing series of events. You might get caught and killed in a fight between clans, or conscripted into joining one. Which groups you choose to join, help, or hinder will have consequences that go on to affect the overall community. It's truly amazing that something so basic as a safe and a barricade can have such amazingly complex ramifications, but the evolution of the original "DayZ experience" has demonstrated just that. Such is the nature of emergent things; complexity from adaptable small parts, which enable the formation of complex networks with feedback loops and their magnificent and well organized results.

 

Not all forms of emergent gameplay are good. While I have focused mainly on interesting and exciting examples of emergent game-play, there were instances that many of us would want to not see reproduced. One great exmaple is "sky fortresses" from the epoch/overpoch mods. You could make modular building parts float in the air and so many people would build architechually ridiculous bases which often resembled some sort of floating base. I once made a giant bat cave with an enclosed tunnel large enough to fly a small plane into and a hangar inside; some said it was a bit much. Another example of emergent gameplay that some players did not appreciate was when highly organized groups became very militant in an indiscriminant way. The level of militarization that these groups could achieve essentially meant they could wipe servers clean of bases and survivors with nothing but a scorched earth behind them. Whether or not this is desirable might be a matter of opinion, but I do lamentingly recall incidents of being repeatly hunted by m134 bearing black hawks by rich clans with no method of retaliation. This kind of emergent game-play can have the nasty effect of making extinct all other emergent forms of gameplay that might have been on-going, at least on that specific server.

 

Another example of what some deem to be undesirable emergent gameplay is the trend known as "KOS'ing". My personal opinion on "killing on sight" is that I don't mind it. I enjoy that some players play as bandits (another emergent trend), in fact I think it adds to the horror and makes me think about trust issues and forces me to travel in a much more tactical manner. With that said, KOS'ing, while emergent, isn't a very complex thing. The fact that some people choose to do so has an effect on everyone else, where once someone gets killed for no reason, they are more likely to do it to someone else out of fear or stress diffusion and other potential reasons. The result is a feedback loop where more and more people learn and resort to the playstyle of KOS'ing, and it becomes a self-reinforcing trend. It is a very basic pattern of behavior and does not generally lead to anything except more of itself. It likely has the effect of making everyone very jealous of their privacy and seclusion and the resulting lack of connectivity between players will potentially limit other emergent forms of game-play.

 

KoS'ing will always exist and in the end, however long it takes, will always become the norm if only for reasons of player boredom; it is the end-pattern to which all DayZ iterations have converged toward (with the exception of having friends/groups whom you do not KOS). The solution is quite simple; create a system which promotes as much complex emergent game-play as possible to delay and curtail the ever existent and eventual end result of a system where everyone KOS's everyone else out of fear or boredom. It's not a problem that some people KOS, but if everyone did it all the time, then we would probably see less emergent forms of game-play, and so the solution to curtailing this end result is to encourage interconnectivity amongst players in any way possible which might result in forms of emergent gameplay other than the most basic self reinforcing trends like KOSing.

 

How can we encourage desirable forms of complex emergent game-play?

 

Spoiler

The most difficult aspect of this task is that it can be a ridiculously complex affair to try and predict or understand what exactly will emerge from a particular set of parts and paramaters. Some researchers in the field of complexity science hold it as a defining feature of emergent properties that is impossible to predict what will emerge from a given complex system because of the sheer magnitude of causes and factors that need to be considered when making predictions. The bright side of this dilemma is that we have lots of experimental data to use for our predictions which comes from the original mod and the current testing in the standalone. Put simply, when we make arguments about theoretical changes or increases to emergent gameplay, they are going to be much stronger arguments when we can actually base them on experimental data rather than on purely theoretical assumptions. The second bright side of this dilemma is that we don't need to try and force specific types of emergent game-play, we can simply try to provide an environment that encourages as much emergent game-play as possible and theywill develop on their own. As Rocket once said, we shouldn't tell players how to play, we should instead give them the tools to play how they choose; this is a big part of what makes DayZ beautiful.

 

In complex systems there are several attributes or aspects of the various parts and paramaters which seem to promote emergence. The three main basic features that seem to promote emergence are "Diversity", "Adaptability", and "Interconnectivity". Firstly, diversity amongst parts can be a very important driver of emergent events because the more different types of something you have, the more combinations and premutations are possible between them. If you have only one type of lego block, then the amount of ways a finite number of those blocks can fit together is quite limited, to give a crude example. If you add in just a single additional unique part, then the amount of unique combinations is drastically increased. A simple DayZ example of this is the modularity of gun attatchments. Players are able to greatly customize their weapon and it's attatchments to best suit their needs, and the most useful or clever combinations of guns and attatchments will emerge in the form of player trends, which could go on to have impacts on the economy and value of items that are, and are not, a part of what are considered the best weapons and attatchments.

 

Diversity is a common feature in complex systems which demonstrate emergence; if one interesting thing emerges it is perhaps likely that other interesting things can and will emerge too; diversity of parts leads to diversity of emergent features. Diversity, of guns and attatchments, for example, can give way to a form of adaptability. Many people might approach DayZ with the idea that there is one ultimate weapon that is best in all situations, but they would be wrong. The fact that they play this way might give rise to an initial player trend of, shall we say, everyone going for AKM's or M4A1's, which then could have a secondary influence on players to go for sniper rifles or shotguns as a means to counter them situationally while also altering their travelling habits accordingly. The diversity of different options here can give rise to an ongoing evolution of trends and play-styles.

 

Another strikingly awesome example of diversity and adaptability giving rise to complex behavior is the potential for modular base construction. Currently we have an array of tents and barrels (with much much more to come), fireplaces and vehicles, and there are only so many ways and places that they can be effectively stored. The more adaptable these individual parts are, and the more diverse a variety of them we have, the more possible effective uses for them we will be able to find. Adaptable in this case can mean fitting in more places or possibly the ability to camoflague tents and shelters to their surroundings. It could also mean defensive/barricading capabilities which would open up the posibility for players to choose strength over concealment as a first line of defense, which increases the viability of many new base locations. The results of indepth modularity in basebuilding are hard to predict, but the epoch and overpoch mods saw an incredible turnout of complex base styles, with some unforseeable and potentially undesirable examples such as sky fortresses.

 

Diversity and adaptability of parts are good starting ingredients for emergence, but for the really interesting things to happen, "interconnectivity" is an essential requirement. When you have diverse and adaptable parts, like vehicles, potential bases, play styles, and even players themselves, and then throw in "interconnectivity" what you get is the development of networks which then take the shape of hierarchies which can generate feedback loops. For example, regarding "weapon/attatchment value" based on emergent player trends, the more connected players are to one another in the form of alliances and possibly trading, then the more pronounced of an effect this emergent player trend will have on an the player driven economy. If you find "the best gun", you will be able to get the absolute most out of it in trade when there is a very large network of players who communicate and interact with one another. If there are many groups on a single server who can communicate with one another then trading standards, alliances, and larger scale conflicts could begin to emerge. If players had the ability to construct defendable bases then these groups could then have geographical permanence and begin to grow in power and sophistication. There's no telling what players could wind up achieving in the end, but in the overpoch mod I once flew a daily beat as "Captain of the Chernarus Sky Police", so I am already confident that the skies are the limit.

 

The real benefit to emergence that comes from the existence of networks and hierarchies, (which results from diversity, adaptability, and interconnectivity) is that individual changes to one part or paramater, or particular events in one part of the network have the ability to then transmit their effect in a way that other areas of the network and hierarchy can react to. This can give rise to feedback loops where certain things can become encouraged or discouraged via positive or negative feedback. For example, in a hypothetical network of groups, each with their own base, if one group massacres another unprovokedly, and the other groups find out, they might be incentivized to retaliate against the agressive group for their own future protection. This would promote stability by providing negative reinforcement for agression that can only exist when there is an identifiable network between them. This concept is fairly understandable and I have experienced it in the DayZ mod where multiple previously hostile or non-allied groups suddenly work together in order to defeat the insanely agressive massive clan of people that are scorching the earth behind them. Afterwards the result is greater connectedness between the remaining groups and a potentially lasting stability between them. The existence of many geographically permanent groups on an individual server creates an environment that in and of itself is quite different from the way DayZ is currently experienced. Even if you are not yourself a part of a group, your experience will be drastically impacted by the existence of these groups because of the avoidable or unavoidable, direct or indirect, interations you will inevitably have with them. Whole new playstyles could and would emerge based upon the existence of large geographically permanent groups. It seems quite impossible to say for sure without actually trying it out and seeing what happens.

 

The good news is that we get to control the system directly indirectly as it gets continuously updated. We are engaged in on-going experimentation and in essense get to try and play god with the emergence of the "DayZ SA experience". This is a good thing because without this experimentation phase we would probably wind up with some crappy system that promotes only one kind of playstyle. Through modulating the paramaters of things like item rarity, player health and other mechanics, increasing the number of tools and parts available along with increasing their adaptability, we can try and ensure that players have a good framework to build off of. If we increase the ability of players to network with one another via communication and cohabitation then there's really no telling what sorts of communities and forms of "emergent game-play" players would wind up creating. That we cannot accurately predict and therefore control the emergent outcomes of the complex system that is "DayZ" is not necessarily a bad thing. The attraction for many of DayZ is that you are able to choose your own strategy for survival, whether it be supreme cooperation with large groups, neurtal hermit style living, or supreme banditry; the important thing is that we can create and choose. As I have tried to argue creating a dynamic system with lots of emergent game-play is a very complex task, and it is my hope that the beta-testing and developmental communities begin to understand this and to put the appropriate creativity and logic into their vision of what DayZ should or could become.

 

On the emergence of KOS'ing

 

Spoiler

As I said before I think that KOSing is an inevitable pattern and should always remain an option, and the solution (if required) to encouraging cooperation or more diverse forms of interaction is not to adress the issue directly but rather indirectly. For instance, if players had the ability to construct lasting hidden stashes in the forest where they could deposit supplies and guns, at least some people might be less inclined to murder someone they see because if they die they will not necessarily lose everything or even the majority of their supplies. When larger groups begin to form thanks to other unrelated mechanics travelling in groups might make them less fearful of individual players and instead try to meet them or rob/capture them. Individual players who see a large group might be less inclined to try and attack them for fear of losing to thier greater numbers. Kos'ing will always be around, but until many more of the features we are waiting for are in the game, we have no way of really knowing if it wont be dealt with by the emergence of new styles of play in a natural way throughout the development process.

 

Some people think that reducing weapon and ammo spawn rates would reduce KOS'ing, but it might simply increase it becasue once people get a gun they will be terrified of losing it. Others say that increasing the gun and ammo spawn rate will do so because then people will feel like they have nothing to lose, but this could backfire because people might resort to KOSing simply out of boredom. I think that the answer is to continue to find a balance of weapon rarity and to also add other adaptable parts and mechanics to the game that can provide players incentives to work together to achieve their exciting and complex goals.

 

Things I think are important to Emergence in DayZ.

 

Spoiler

Modular guns are a great example of something that I think will give rise to emergence once people can accrue gun collections, and in the same way I think that base building and vehicle modularity can become an extremely powerful foundations and drivers of diversity and adaptation. Other aspects of item and mechanic diversity are coming in the form of primitive tools and resources like farming, fishing , and hunting, which are already quite wonderful even in their alpha state. To me this will mean that groups will be able to inhabit more areas and live in more diverse and creative ways which should only serve to encourage a natural selection of the most effective playstyles.

 

Networking and communication amongst players themselves is something that I think DayZ currently lacks entirely and has the most potential for innovation and development. The only attempt of in game communication aside from face to face voice or text has been failed walkie talkies which have a useless range given map size and population levels and are cumbersome and difficult to operate. If players started with a radio that could be recharged with a crank, and if they had a more effective range, then players would at least have the ability to speak with one another outside of threatening engagements on the ground. Things like long range CB radios could be made available and could become an integral part of group to group communication. In the DayZ mod there was always a global chat where players could meet and lie to one another with the whole public listening. If players who recently met got separated they could reconnect via the global chat. Groups could look for recruits, new players could look for groups. Groups could talk to one another and a distinct sense of community easily developped on many servers. Anything we can do to increase communication and interactivity between players I think will be a heavy source of emergent game-play and it would be nice to do it without immersion breaking always persistent global chat.

 

A better understanding of the developing DayZ experience is my goal with this thread, and I think it can only come from the help of many minds an opinions to test, criticize, and refine the ideas and arguments I have made, and as we apply them to DayZ. If you have an idea regarding the forces that govern emergent game-play in DayZ please don't hesistate to share them, epecically if we can potentially use that idea to create a more interesting, lasting, and enjoyable Chernarus!

Edited March 21, 2016 by FlimFlamm

[hellcat420 212]

Lol

[ColdAtrophy 1850]

You touched on the failure of in-game walkie talkies. There is a really good reason why they failed. Teamspeak, Steam chat, Skype, etc. are all safer means of communicating with your squad. Since it's highly unlikely that BI would be willing or able to stop players from utilizing VOIP services outside of the game, I don't see how this issue can be helped. They can add as many options for in-game communication as they want, but I don't see any of them being much more effective than the walkie talkies.

 

Your post is, overall, very informative and interesting to me as a student of game theory, but I doubt very many are going to take the time to read it. Cool post though. Have beans.

[emuthreat 2837]

Are you doing this to pass a 300 series sociology course?  Because that's how you pass a 300 series sociology course.

[FlimFlamm 509]

You touched on the failure of in-game walkie talkies. There is a really good reason why they failed. Teamspeak, Steam chat, Skype, etc. are all safer means of communicating with your squad. Since it's highly unlikely that BI would be willing or able to stop players from utilizing VOIP services outside of the game, I don't see how this issue can be helped. They can add as many options for in-game communication as they want, but I don't see any of them being much more effective than the walkie talkies.

 

Your post is, overall, very informative and interesting to me as a student of game theory, but I doubt very many are going to take the time to read it. Cool post though. Have beans.

 

Even if just part of this post is read, especially the part regarding how to promote emergence, then I'll be happy. I am hoping there are more people like you and myself who find this sort of thing interesting and I think we could generate some awesome ideas if we can think about DayZ issues in an organized way.

 

Regarding walkie talkies, I understand that actual friends and clans will always use team-speak, but walkie-talkies, and CB radios can fill a much more important role; communication between non-friends.

 

One of the major issues preventing random player interaction is that there is really no safe way to communicate. If we all had useful and working radios then we could try and contact people as a way for random players to interact and meet in a non-threatening manner. Once players build trust and become friends I fully expect them to use team-speak but the value is still there by giving a kind of in game team-speak for all the local players to actually interact and meet one another.

 

When players can communicate over an open radio channel, a network is formed; players can be warned of hostile zones, community events can occur quite easily, recruitment can take place more frequently, and a great number of other potential functions.

 

It would be pretty interesting to rob someone over the radio by describing them and their location and shooting a warning shot past their head. They wouldn't know where you are and have no choice to drop their gear and leave :)

 

Mainly a cb radio or a longer range and more easy to use walkie talkie should be made available as a way for players to interact and to network with one another in various ways.

Edited June 19, 2015 by FlimFlamm

[FlimFlamm 509]

Are you doing this to pass a 300 series sociology course?  Because that's how you pass a 300 series sociology course.

Heh, thanks but I'm just doing it in my spare time. I've been mulling over the concepts for a few weeks and once I got started the DayZ and scientific passions came together to produce this twisted love child of a post :)

[emuthreat 2837]

All good dude, I geek out on that stuff myself.  Emergence is an emerging (NPI) topic lately what with all the cross-communication and databases that didn't exist a decade ago.  Really exciting times we live in. Also terrifying if you understand how much global resources are controlled by a relatively small group of people.

[hellcat420 212]

All good dude, I geek out on that stuff myself. Emergence is an emerging (NPI) topic lately what with all the cross-communication and databases that didn't exist a decade ago. Really exciting times we live in. Also terrifying if you understand how much global resources are controlled by a relatively small group of people.

Which is exactly why we are doomed

Edited June 19, 2015 by hellcat420

[Grimey Rick 3417]

On that note, this forum is becoming more and more emergent every day.

/wrist

[emuthreat 2837]

On that note, this forum is becoming more and more emergent every day.

/wrist

Did that post emerge from your on-board extrusion die?

[scriptfactory 620]

Excellent write-up. I will go over it in detail later and try to formulate a proper response to some of your topics.

 

Regarding walkie talkies, I understand that actual friends and clans will always use team-speak, but walkie-talkies, and CB radios can fill a much more important role; communication between non-friends.

 

As I was playing ARK on a private server I realized that people were much more likely to socialize and group up. KoS is still ridiculous in this game but global chat gives people the opportunity to find players that will help them fight back so the complaints about KoS are must less common.

 

In order for walkies to see use as an alternate form of global chat in DayZ I believe the following changes need to happen.

 

• Walkies should be extremely common or even a starting item.
• Get rid of the battery requirement for use. I keep my walkie off just because I don't want the battery condition to degrade. This removes the possibility for random interaction with other players.
• Walkies should broadcast across the entire map. I think a change was made last year to increase the range but I am not sure what the current status is.

[ZomboWTF 527]

*snip*

 

with you on that one, persistence and building stashes is one aspect of being able to interact with people safely

 

in the mod, i had a tent location that never ever got compromised, and it was in the middle of the map in a forresty area, where most people would probably search for tents, also quite close to the south-eastern coast, suprisingly

 

with this back in mind, i always thought to myself when trying to interact with someone ("if he kills you, you still have a stash there, so nothing to bad will happen, and maybe you will even win the fight if it occurs")

 

in the mod however this was pretty redundant at some point because of how trees were rendered and how easy it was to see tents and cars from the air, so there definitely needs something to be done about that, personally on experimentyl, a simple dropped backpack or a few of them was far superior to any tent imo, since it's so well hidden that nobody will ever find it without knowing where to search in the first place, and the relativley big space a backpack offers

 

can't wait for backpack persistence...

Edited June 19, 2015 by Zombo

[Old_Crow_Whiskey 119]

Beyond networking and communication we only have to look to the world geopolitical climate to see what human construct has fostered a general climate of peace since WWII, and that's trade. When parties are able to more easily act in mutual self interest they become less interested in simple extermination. I believe that we would see more emergent game play with the inclusion of static interactive trade locations throughout the map, as well as other functional static places & items. This would change the importance of certain buildings and thus would make certain cities and towns more important places of interaction, not just places you go to loot or PvP. This would of course not remove KOS-ing but would allow diversity in player motives and thus variety in player behavior.

 

Trade: if a player interacts with a kitchen table or a bar they can enter a trade screen with two or more players. This allows players to literally sit around a table as equals and work out deals. The trade table could have its own chat (on a piece of paper) where players at the table could write to each other to also work out verbal agreements and or trade goods for services.Trading goods and services would open up emergent game play to the extreme. The dense placement of tables could see the emergence of marketplace trading and all the associated side effects such as the need for law & order, criminal extortion/rackettering, and trade in illicit services. The value of certain goods and services would change depending on your location on the map. If they want to get real fancy, the paper trade sheet could be copied to each players inventory or to a special paper inventory, marking a record of the transaction or acting as a contract for providing services. Player occupations could emerge, such as contract killing, gopher (find this item), and paid medic, among others.

 

Repair: work benches could allow higher level repair of machinery and equipment. The buidings and storage garages that hold work benches would become important places for hostile and non-hostile interaction. Special tools scattered throughout the map are required to be combined with the work bench to unlock special repair abilities, like repairing guns, engines, or for performing upgrades. The benches could be used to modify or construct building materials. Overall static work benches provide players the option to build, not just to destroy.

 

Cooking: Propane powered house stoves, commercial kitchens, static campfires (like how wells are located). Food oriented points of interest are how people tend to bond in real life and could have positive effects on emergent play diversity. 

Edited June 19, 2015 by Old_Crow_Whiskey

[FlimFlamm 509]

 

Excellent write-up. I will go over it in detail later and try to formulate a proper response to some of your topics.

 

 

As I was playing ARK on a private server I realized that people were much more likely to socialize and group up. KoS is still ridiculous in this game but global chat gives people the opportunity to find players that will help them fight back so the complaints about KoS are must less common.

 

In order for walkies to see use as an alternate form of global chat in DayZ I believe the following changes need to happen.

 

• Walkies should be extremely common or even a starting item.
• Get rid of the battery requirement for use. I keep my walkie off just because I don't want the battery condition to degrade. This removes the possibility for random interaction with other players.
• Walkies should broadcast across the entire map. I think a change was made last year to increase the range but I am not sure what the current status is.

 

 

I was thinking the same things. I have some additional radio features in mind that I think could make for a spectacular experience.

 

- Hand crankable emergency CB radio should be a starting item, and it should be clip-able onto the pants of players, so it doesn't eat up an inventory slot. (reasoning behind this is that the devs might wind up caving and adding a global, immersion breaking, chat. this is a way to preserve it at 0 player expense)

 

- The the range of broadcast should depends on altitude and/or line of sight. the higher you are the better a signal you will get, just like in real life. At the top of the tower on green mountain, perhaps the whole map is reachable, at sea level, perhaps only a few kilometers.

 

- There should be a default public channel, but there also needs to be alternate channels that people can switch to. This will provide a place to meet others and the additional channels can serve as semi-private introductory and communication channels ad hoc.

 

- players with bases can loot and set up an actual table top CB radio, in addition to perhaps setting up a small lootable antenna for it to give it maximum range.

 

-Scanners (rare) could be findable, and when used could scan and cycle through all the radio channels, looking for activity. Once it finds activity it tells you the frequency and allows you to listen in.

 

-headsets should be available that can be connected to a radio and worn under hats and attached to helmets. This makes it so you can hear your radio without other people, and zombies, around you hearing it. Not sure if this should be standard, common, or rare.

 

In a real world zombie apocalypse I think CB radio would become the number one method of communication. The setbacks of CB radio are range issues if there is not a large enough network of radios to bounce off of, and the fact that anyone can listen to you. I think having around a 4 or 5 km emergency radio on the coast would be sufficient along with the ability to increase the range by gaining altitude and to have advanced radio setups like small antennas, scanners, and tabletop CB radio sets for bases to deck themselves out with.

 

When players are on the coast the public channel of their radio should be turned on by default and through it new spawns can hear voice and text chat. In order to communicate back they might need to climb a large hill, depending on how far away the source of the broadcast is. One interesting emergent aspect of game-play that could result from this is that players need to turn their radios off when they are near zombies, or else they might be attracted to the noise. another interesting feature is that it's not only your microphone voice that will be sent over the radio, it will also be the sounds of nature, guns, and zombies. Imagine hearing someone cry out for help amidst zombie groans and gunshots, then suddenly go silent. That is a real horror game. :D

 

Some military vehicles could be outfitted with radios as well, like the V3S. Aircraft pilots just love radios because they can talk to each other when they encounter one another!

 

I'm mainly interested in giving loner players a new way to meet people and a way for the community to begin to network with itself, but there's no telling what crazy nonsense radios could lead to. It might be that on some servers clans jam every frequency because their military operations are too clandestine! Just imagine what information you might hear while listening and scanning through the channels...

 

Maybe you're being chased and you get cornered. It might be a long shot but why not call out your location over the public radio and plead for assistance? At least you can spoil the location of your enemies. Or maybe you can negotiate with them? Nope, it's too late. They just flash banged you and took your guns and radio away! Now nobody will find out about the terrible things they are about to do to you :(

Edited June 19, 2015 by FlimFlamm

[FlimFlamm 509]

snip

 

I plan on writing a bit more on the ramifications of loot safety mechanics for the exact reason that you mentioned: If you feel like you aren't going to lose absolutely everything you've worked for for many days or weeks, then you won't feel obliged to kill everyone that you see out of fear.

 

The dev's are actually currently working on some sort of concealable loot stash that can be built in a primitive way, and when it comes it's going to drastically alter the average DayZ experience. People are going to be looking for groups because of their new-found ability to amass lots of loot in a safe manner. Without base-building to make them geographically static and centralized there's no real telling how these new groups will behave, but they will certainly emerge :D (i speculate that groups are goung to focus on hoarding military gear and are going to go around doing squad style aggressive play). Personally I am going to retreat into the forest.

 

If players could build some sort of barricade that could be effective at keeping other players out, then the game would be impacted even more drastically. We will see sneaky groups of players looking for clever spots to hide their hordes with hidden loot stashes, but If we could go for the fortification/defense option over the hidden and camouflaged option then almost the entire map becomes a viable living place with many more play0styles available.

Edited June 19, 2015 by FlimFlamm

[FlimFlamm 509]

--snip--

 

In a game called Space Station 13, sometimes other players will require you fill out formal paperwork (which is of their own creation). When you apply a pen to paper you can write on it, and if you write [sign] on the paper then the signature of your characters name will appear on the paper, which nobody can duplicate. It could also be interesting if players could use candles to seal and perhaps stamp written documents and correspondance. There's not much basic in game need for it but who knows, maybe a need will evolve!

 

When it comes to certain cities developing reputations as trading cities, that would be completely awesome, but I think in order for that kind of complexity to be stable all kinds of basic parts and para-maters need to already be in place. In the section about "How to promote emergent game-play", I wrote about how communication between groups on an individual server could foster a reactive network which reinforces peace and stability between them. Only with adequate communication are these various groups going to be able to come to the necessary agreements to cooperate and set up rudimentary protections when they go to market. Getting the word out about the market is also important to attract business, and with attraction comes danger, and so I think these kinds of emergent marketplaces can only emerge under the protection of relatively super-powerful groups who have the resources and man-power to do so.

 

A really interesting crew calling themselves the burnaya river trading company operates these trading zones but can only afford to do it rarely and on announced dates. They make the location random and then release the location when everything is set up and have greeters and defenders and such. Even with all their precaution, things tend to get very crazy and dangerous. They have some awesome videos about their experiences!

 

http://burnayariver.com/

 

Repair (and construction) is something that I dream about everynight. Not just for items and bases, but also for vehicles. Modularity is such a powerful tool for driving adaptation and emergent strategies. I could go on forever about crafting, so I'll hold my tongue for now on it and rant in a future post.

 

Regarding cooking, I've been thinking about it for quite a long time. Morale is a mechanic that could potentially somehow be implemented. Morale is a very real thing that real humans need to deal with, and especially in the context of a horror game, morale is a very relevant aspect of life that we ought to try and simulate. I'm not exactly sure how the morale mechanic should work, but I know that if you eat a masterfully prepared meal with the freshest and best ingredients, with nothing burned and no weird combinations of food like spaghetti and pumpkin soup, then your character should feel incredibly awesome as a result. He or she has been running around eating mostly raw canned goods or venison, or worse, for god knows how long, and so the comfort of eating a delicious warm full meal cannot be underestimated. (whether it gives you longer lasting stamina, or recovery from injury or illness, I'm not sure)

 

The potential result of this kind of mechanic is that groups look for good cooks to join them. Novice cooks will pair the wrong ingredients and cook them imperfectly. At marketplaces, if they ever emerge, food vendors could make a killing!

 

I would like to have the ability to cook a stew, and be required to add ingredients at the right time depending on how long they each take to cook. If the ingredients I use compliment one another well (onions and beef, for example), then the meal should be more comforting and morale boosting.

 

Some people might not realize it but many cooks put love sweat and tears into preparing their meals to perfection. Give us a steep learning curve and a reason to learn it like morale boosting or a reputation as the best cook in chernarus!

[Parazight 1594]

Related to networking and communicating, I've posted in the design forum in an effort to stress the importance of having more information on the server list.

 

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/220552-new-user-interface-technology/page-5#entry2270906

 

This, imo, is close to the foundation of making the strongest communities.

 

 

On the topic of KOSing, you seem to approach it as a bad thing.  In fact, unpredictable murder in a game where there's a sandbox, players, and ways to kill other players, is actually the glue that holds it together and makes it interesting.  I would posit that KOS is the element that gives birth to all the emergent playstyles that happen in DayZ.  KOSing takes on additional roles and meanings, because dayz is a game about theft.  KOSing in CoD, or Battlefield, or such is pretty hollow because the regearing process is easy.  Killing players in dayz isn't really about murder out of boredom, but stealing the time investment your victim put into acquiring their gear.   That time investment is why players kill out of fear, it's why combat is more intense, it's what makes everything more significant. 

 

At any rate, the key to forming desirable emergent playstyles starts before the character actually loads, with server selection, imo.    This gives the player more control over what kind of game experience they are likely to encounter.

[emuthreat 2837]

I really like the idea of facilitating some sort of global chat without using the immersion-breaking text bar so common to other games.  I do not support starting with such a device; everyone should wash ashore alone and afraid.  Since cannon dictates that this is "Day Zero," GPS/communication satellites should still be functional.

 

What I would like to see is a powered handset that provides a GPS screen, direct two-way radio (such as is found with the Garmin Rhino series), and a global SMS function.  The reward to finding this would be that you are no longe alone in the world; the risk would be, as always, the wolf in sheeps clothing.  Now if they would only put batteries back in the game at a reasonable level...

 

edit:  Grammar; gotta have those semicolons.

Edited June 19, 2015 by emuthreat

[FlimFlamm 509]

I really like the idea of facilitating some sort of global chat without using the immersion-breaking text bar so common to other games.  I do not support starting with such a device; everyone should wash ashore alone and afraid.  Since cannon dictates that this is "Day Zero," GPS/communication satellites should still be functional.

 

What I would like to see is a powered handset that provides a GPS screen, direct tow-way radio (such as is found with the Garmin Rhino series), and a global SMS function.  The reward to finding this would be that you are no longe alone in the world; the risk would be, as always, the wolf in sheeps clothing.  Now if they would only put batteries back in the game at a reasonable level...

 

edit:  Grammar; gotta have those semicolons.

 

Semi-colons, when not used half-assed manner, are awesome! (I entertain myself too much I think)

 

I was thinking about GPS the other day but they should be quite rare. To have possession of a touch screen two way satellite GPS and radio would be amazing. I too really want versatile in-game communication that doesn't wreck the immersive experience, but if we add in such awesome gadgets then they would probably wind up being too rare. Perhaps a compromise could be a buffed up walkie talkie, with range dependent on altitude. Maybe it could be a hand crank version so that you could recharge it internally rather than needing a battery. It's semi realistic but leaves the door open for better communication apparatus while making communication accessible.

 

Some other interesting forms of communication could be bull horns, which players will find all sorts of wonderful uses for. Drums, whistles, trumpet like horns, potentially made from things like bull horns which can be used for long range signaling or just music making!

 

If radios get added in then there should be default channels. A public channel, and aircraft default channel, and perhaps some sort of military default channel. Players could set their own frequencies for various purposes but the idea of public channels will give players the ability to congregate off the bat in the communication network.

[FlimFlamm 509]

Related to networking and communicating, I've posted in the design forum in an effort to stress the importance of having more information on the server list.

 

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/220552-new-user-interface-technology/page-5#entry2270906

 

This, imo, is close to the foundation of making the strongest communities.

 

 

On the topic of KOSing, you seem to approach it as a bad thing.  In fact, unpredictable murder in a game where there's a sandbox, players, and ways to kill other players, is actually the glue that holds it together and makes it interesting.  I would posit that KOS is the element that gives birth to all the emergent playstyles that happen in DayZ.  KOSing takes on additional roles and meanings, because dayz is a game about theft.  KOSing in CoD, or Battlefield, or such is pretty hollow because the regearing process is easy.  Killing players in dayz isn't really about murder out of boredom, but stealing the time investment your victim put into acquiring their gear.   That time investment is why players kill out of fear, it's why combat is more intense, it's what makes everything more significant. 

 

At any rate, the key to forming desirable emergent playstyles starts before the character actually loads, with server selection, imo.    This gives the player more control over what kind of game experience they are likely to encounter.

 

I think there could be a lot of communiity related information that could prove useful as a starting point for players to become organized. Establishing a potential neutral zone or a trading zone, or strict pvp zones could be a good way to get the ball rolling on player interaction, but I'm a firm believer that until we have means of meeting new people over the air waves it's going to remain as difficult as it is.

 

I don't think that killing in DayZ is a bad thing, it's just that the prevalence of killing absolutely everyone you see as soon as you see them is a trend that people seem to get tired of pretty quickly. It can in and of itself lead to other emergent trends, but these resulting trends tend to involve very little player driven interaction, which is what we require for the formation of larger communities that can actually have an impact on greater chernarus.

[sneakydudes 278]

flimflam is talking spam. WTF you talking about man. Its a game lol----------> taking it way to far, I agree he's writing a paper on it. :)

[emuthreat 2837]

I see what you did there...

 

Yeah, a bullhorn would be awesome; can't even settle for planting a radio to scare people nowadayz.  I wonder what kind of emergent gameplay would come from slingshots and firecrackers.  It would be kinda like throwing your voice, but with gunshot-like noises.  When we've locked down a field with a 4+ member squad, it is fairly easy to triangulate someone's position, knowing the exact position of all our players, and reporting on who heard the gunshots and who didn't.

[emuthreat 2837]

flimflam is talking spam. WTF you talking about man. Its a game lol----------> taking it way to far, I agree he's writing a paper on it. :)

Not trying to be rude, dude, but this is a real thing.  Emergence is a real emerging area of sutdy that has unlimited implicatons.  Well technically it is limited only by the amount of things in existence, their individual properties, and their proximity to one-another.  Please add to the knowledge base or ignore.  One could even argue that your sardonic response is an emergent behavior when you expose luddites to sapiophiles.  :P

[FlimFlamm 509]

flimflam is talking spam. WTF you talking about man. it's a game lol.

 

I can see that you're not much a fan

my mind ran free, so-sorry it's bland

but complexity you see,

cannot be compressed easily.

Long it may seem but tis not a flimflam!

[Coheed_IV 381]

I just skimmed a little bit. Will read later.

 

Didn't see it, but I believe walkie talkies can work as intended on the consoles. I believe they can turn off any group chat with the game, other games have done so.

 

Of course, not sure about us on PCs. Liked scriptFactorys ideas, that would help a lot.