Exp Update: 0.56.127TheBeast.

[galekast 70]

With the whole realism thing, I can't help but think about the apples and the berries.. I mean, in real life, you know if there is an apple or a berry in a tree or bush, you can see them and you wouldn't fail to get one every single time (basically).. So I can't help but think the rate should be upped, but that the trees and bushes should become exhausted of supplies at some point and perhaps a new appearance to them too so they look clear.. I know that the first person along would basically be able to grab everything if they had the inventory space, but hell, that's how it would be in real life too surely.. This whole "I have found nothing" does my head in, I can see the apples dammit and by hell I want one! So take the bloody apple that I can see off the tree and stop messing about, your arms aren't that short!

[ebrim 998]

To hunt you need a gun or a bow. To make that bow you currently need rope and you need to chop down a tree. What would happen if they made axes extremely hard to come by? This is why stone axes and other improvised tools need to hopefully come into play. In case of situations like some ppl are finding.

All you need for hunting is a stone knife, some chicken feathers which can be harvested and a metal wire or rope. Metal wire I seem to have pretty good luck finding even when other things are scarce. Metal wire of course means rabbit snare and rabbit guts can make a bow.

I'm not sure what functionality is needed from improvised tools that doesn't already exist... Stone axe may sound good but it would still require cordage and be wildly impractical for actually trying to cut down a tree... It could work on bushes but the stone knife already does that. I do think the stone knife needs to be nerfed in durability soon though, it should really only be good for one or two uses.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Ebrim

[Deathlove 2286]

All you need for hunting is a stone knife, some chicken feathers which can be harvested and a metal wire or rope. Metal wire I seem to have pretty good luck finding even when other things are scarce. Metal wire of course means rabbit snare and rabbit guts can make a bow.

I'm not sure what functionality is needed from improvised tools that doesn't already exist... Stone axe may sound good but it would still require cordage and be wildly impractical for actually trying to cut down a tree... It could work on bushes but the stone knife already does that. I do think the stone knife needs to be nerfed in durability soon though, it should really only be good for one or two uses.

Im just saying there needs to be other ways to make tools considering manufactured ones might be harder to obtain latter on down the line. Even if its not as good as a manufactured item.

[IMT 3190]

All you need for hunting is a stone knife, some chicken feathers which can be harvested and a metal wire or rope. Metal wire I seem to have pretty good luck finding even when other things are scarce. Metal wire of course means rabbit snare and rabbit guts can make a bow.

I'm not sure what functionality is needed from improvised tools that doesn't already exist... Stone axe may sound good but it would still require cordage and be wildly impractical for actually trying to cut down a tree... It could work on bushes but the stone knife already does that. I do think the stone knife needs to be nerfed in durability soon though, it should really only be good for one or two uses.

Do you know a way to get worms without a Farming Hoe or a Shovel? :D

[ebrim 998]

Do you know a way to get worms without a Farming Hoe or a Shovel? :D

 

Actually, that's a really good example. We don't have anything improvised for digging...

[ebrim 998]

With the whole realism thing, I can't help but think about the apples and the berries.. I mean, in real life, you know if there is an apple or a berry in a tree or bush, you can see them and you wouldn't fail to get one every single time (basically).. So I can't help but think the rate should be upped, but that the trees and bushes should become exhausted of supplies at some point and perhaps a new appearance to them too so they look clear.. I know that the first person along would basically be able to grab everything if they had the inventory space, but hell, that's how it would be in real life too surely.. This whole "I have found nothing" does my head in, I can see the apples dammit and by hell I want one! So take the bloody apple that I can see off the tree and stop messing about, your arms aren't that short!

 

Well, one way you can think of it is that it takes time to get the apples or gather the berries. Maybe you have to jump to grab the apple, or try climb partially the tree or for berries you have to gather them somewhere, pick through the bush, etc. The benefit to foragables working as they do is that it's never impossible to survive for want of food, you just have to make a time investment to get the energy. In other words, if you think of DayZ as resource management, you always have the option to trade time for energy. That trade is time expensive though, so it drives you to find other methods to gain energy.

[bauertschi 254]

Actually, that's a really good example. We don't have anything improvised for digging...

 

And that should be one of the easiest things ... an Ashwood stick should work there, too. Also many other not improvised things like knifes or practically anything that can be used to be scratch ground. On the other hand I would not want to have the option to dig up worms with my vsd in my hand... . I hope the controls will allow for a lot or those actions and not result in accidentially doing special stuff like that all time.

 

Well, one way you can think of it is that it takes time to get the apples or gather the berries. Maybe you have to jump to grab the apple, or try climb partially the tree or for berries you have to gather them somewhere, pick through the bush, etc. The benefit to foragables working as they do is that it's never impossible to survive for want of food, you just have to make a time investment to get the energy. In other words, if you think of DayZ as resource management, you always have the option to trade time for energy. That trade is time expensive though, so it drives you to find other methods to gain energy.

 

There is also the pragmatic view of this still being a game. I like the trade-off argument you made. Too many implemented things will ruin everything because nothing will work good or work good together. No one is proposing to remove mending broken within seconds. Just yesterday I was shot in the legs -> broken legs while running away from some trigger happy dude. Applied my splint and kept running away. Respect for hitting me from about 200m while I was fleeing. Not so much respect for missing me from 10m while I was filling up my bottle at a well. Realism, right? I do "waste" inventory slots to have splints always ready when needed, I invest those slots, I get the gains. Realism would have had me die.

 

Reminder: we are going for authentic, not realistic. Something authentic allows for balancing gameplay aspects, realism does not in many cases. It's not fun to play when stuff happens all the time that gives you no out but unforgiving death 5 hours later. Just imagine realistically lying in a field somewhere with a stomach wound and dying a few days later ... booo.

Edited May 17, 2015 by bautschi

[BleedoutBill 1636]

Thank you and the others answering about rabbit snares ... I started doing farming before entering a town and harvesting it when done myself, but only, when really neccessary, and only with pumpkins. It is a big risk, possibly getting you exposed to ppl camping your food :)

 

 

Your answer about the quote confuses me though, I looked it up ... had read it yesterday but didn't find it earlier, you have to select "Tweets & Answers" to see it, not just "Tweets" ... twitter noob here :). It was about .055 like we both said, but the currently already overhauled cle was intruduced in .55 and then an older loot system was rolled back into .55 or did I get that wrong? I thought they did a complete redesign for the new one, so I thought that after the rollback to an earlier loot system the .55 stable and .56 new cle system did not really have anything to do with each other ... well besides maybe as a first step trying to reproduce what was already accomplished.

Now is the current loot system in .55 an older version of the exp cle again??? Did they "reroll it forward again"??? I thought they both had nothing to do with each other... . Getting highly confused here.

 

What also worries me is how in the same twitter discussion ho took a "they just made everything worse" and responded by "Well, I'm sorry you think I made things worse - but, its part and parcel with development." Don't know if taking that "they" and making it an "I" is that good.

 

I hereby start the "Hicksman, take a vacation movement". Just a few days, away from civilication. Take 1 or 2 friends and go camping, maybe fish, definitelly barbeque. Or if that's not your thing, do whatever else is extreme-relaxation for you.

Look in his tweet from May 15th: "One of these days I need to look into doing one of these vacation things."

Just do it and also lock down the whole buildings for a weekend, preventing anyone from entering.

The CLE was introduced into 0.55 Exp. It seemed to work fine, with the exception that the fruit and veggies were invisible, but I expect that this issue was not directly caused by the CLE. When 0.55 Stable was released with CLE and exposed to proper stress testing, some servers did not behave as expected. Eventually, the devs were able to identify two problems, which are scheduled to be addressed in the 0.56 Stable build. One would expect that those two fixes are currently being tested in the 0.56 Exp build.

 

Per the April 14 Status report, in an effort to mitigate the loot spawn issues, the devs switched 0.55 Stable over to the legacy placeholder loot spawning system.

[Tatanko 5591]

Actually, that's a really good example. We don't have anything improvised for digging...

That and shelter are about all we still need really. Anything else is superfluous (but still welcome). For example, we could make improvised lamps using animal lard... a bit of a stretch, I know, but just an example of something not necessary but still "missing" from the survival crafting system. Anything new that gets added beyond the first two things I mentioned should definitely fall under "advanced" crafting (i.e. preserving fruit, drying meat, animal lard oil lamps, etc.)

[BleedoutBill 1636]

Well, one way you can think of it is that it takes time to get the apples or gather the berries. Maybe you have to jump to grab the apple, or try climb partially the tree or for berries you have to gather them somewhere, pick through the bush, etc. The benefit to foragables working as they do is that it's never impossible to survive for want of food, you just have to make a time investment to get the energy. In other words, if you think of DayZ as resource management, you always have the option to trade time for energy. That trade is time expensive though, so it drives you to find other methods to gain energy.

I absolutely agree, but in addition to that, not only do you have to "spend" time on apples, you typically have to expose yourself and risk your safety in order to collect apples. Most apple trees "grow" near developed areas, which are typically the haunts of zeds and will, no doubt, attract other players due to the potential for loot. I find that standing still under an apple tree for extended periods, without a weapon in my hands, is a very uncomfortable position to be in.

[wasnu (DayZ) 392]

That and shelter are about all we still need really. Anything else is superfluous (but still welcome). For example, we could make improvised lamps using animal lard... a bit of a stretch, I know, but just an example of something not necessary but still "missing" from the survival crafting system. Anything new that gets added beyond the first two things I mentioned should definitely fall under "advanced" crafting (i.e. preserving fruit, drying meat, animal lard oil lamps, etc.)

 

the problem i see is, why use the "original" items for that. stone knife only needs 1slot and is found at startup.

Same with cooking on ashwood sticks, why keep an cookingpot or pan?

Why try to find matches to start an fire when you get your firerstarter at the next tree?

 

for me the original designed items to survive in the woods will stay forever on their place cause no one will take them, cause no one need it.

 

i think its good for the game to have to enter towns sometimes to get your stuff to live in the woods, its a bit piece of "pepper" in this game, no risk-no fun

 

Only trying to find the farest point on the map to not meet other players will be senseless like an offline version of dayZ 

[galekast 70]

Well, one way you can think of it is that it takes time to get the apples or gather the berries. Maybe you have to jump to grab the apple, or try climb partially the tree or for berries you have to gather them somewhere, pick through the bush, etc. The benefit to foragables working as they do is that it's never impossible to survive for want of food, you just have to make a time investment to get the energy. In other words, if you think of DayZ as resource management, you always have the option to trade time for energy. That trade is time expensive though, so it drives you to find other methods to gain energy.

 

Valid points. It just does my head in at times, "I have found nothing" and you are staring the damn apple in the face screaming "USE YOUR EYES"... But alas, you are right, I guess there has to be a time/reward management in this situation or else it would be a bit too easy.. 

[Deathlove 2286]

That and shelter are about all we still need really. Anything else is superfluous (but still welcome). For example, we could make improvised lamps using animal lard... a bit of a stretch, I know, but just an example of something not necessary but still "missing" from the survival crafting system. Anything new that gets added beyond the first two things I mentioned should definitely fall under "advanced" crafting (i.e. preserving fruit, drying meat, animal lard oil lamps, etc.)

Well even if its advanced crafting, crafting in general needs to be a reliable primary source for tools and survival. Anything manufactured should be more of a luxury only because its made to last longer or just more durable in general. Even being able to actually manufacture items should be under advanced crafting i guess lol. You know being able to come up with your own power supplies and what not.

[pillock 850]

the problem i see is, why use the "original" items for that. stone knife only needs 1slot and is found at startup.

Same with cooking on ashwood sticks, why keep an cookingpot or pan?

Why try to find matches to start an fire when you get your firerstarter at the next tree?

 

for me the original designed items to survive in the woods will stay forever on their place cause no one will take them, cause no one need it.

 

i think its good for the game to have to enter towns sometimes to get your stuff to live in the woods, its a bit piece of "pepper" in this game, no risk-no fun

 

Only trying to find the farest point on the map to not meet other players will be senseless like an offline version of dayZ 

 

There are ways they could balance things around this to give manufactured items a higher appeal over crafted ones. For examples:

 

-Stone knives: if they were changed to a single or double use item before ruined, that would go some way to balancing it. They could also be made more difficult/time-consuming to craft, perhaps, as well as less effective than manufactured knives at gathering meat, etc.

-Cooking pots Vs cooking stick: if they extended the cooking times, it would mean you'd be able to leave food in a pot and get on and do something else while you wait for it to cook; it would also allow for "recipes" (mixtures of ingredients) further into development, perhaps giving more nutrition from the 'meal'. Using a stick would mean you'd have to sit there doing fuck all while you wait.

-Matches Vs drill: they could make using the drill harder - ie. the animation could take several times longer, and have a high chance of failure each time; whereas, a match would be faster and more reliable.

 

I dunno, just some ideas off the top of me head.

[wooly-back-jack 294]

sorry, I only started playing this build yesterdayso apologies if already reported:

I am getting a bug where when I log in or even use fountain/drink soda/eat food the attachments and ammo from my weapon disappear until I drop the weapon on the ground and pick it back up. 

It was easily worked around by doing just that, I realise bugs are to be expected :)

 

Then I came across a strange situation where I couldn't drop weapon to my back to drink from fountain, So in trying to force it to do so by bandaging I ended up duping the weapon, then again when at fountain when drinking I duped another:

 

 

By all means remove this post mods if you think it shouldn't be here, just so long as you are aware of it, you can't make it happen, indeed this incident at the fountain was the first time where a dupe happened for me.

[BleedoutBill 1636]

the problem i see is, why use the "original" items for that. stone knife only needs 1slot and is found at startup.

Same with cooking on ashwood sticks, why keep an cookingpot or pan?

Why try to find matches to start an fire when you get your firerstarter at the next tree?

 

for me the original designed items to survive in the woods will stay forever on their place cause no one will take them, cause no one need it.

 

i think its good for the game to have to enter towns sometimes to get your stuff to live in the woods, its a bit piece of "pepper" in this game, no risk-no fun

 

Only trying to find the farest point on the map to not meet other players will be senseless like an offline version of dayZ 

A cooking pot takes up less inventory space and it cooks more food at once, so it's a time saver. Currently, you can even store other items in the pot. Same with the skillet. Additionally, it makes for a pretty good melee weapon. I confess that I haven't tried to hit any one with a cooking pot yet, so I don't know how effective they may be.

 

The stick takes up a lot of inventory space and you can only store one food item on it (for example apples, or berries). The stick can be used for other purposes, though, including as a weapon, so it is much more flexible.

 

You no longer have to search for matches, but if you find them, so much the better. Matches take up very little space, but if you can't find them, you have other options.

 

It's all about options and choice and it is the same with computers. Some people like an operating system that enables a task to be performed several different ways, according to the user's preference and / or convenience. Other people are uncomfortable with choice and so they purchase Apple products.  :D

[BleedoutBill 1636]

sorry, I only started playing this build yesterdayso apologies if already reported:

I am getting a bug where when I log in or even use fountain/drink soda/eat food the attachments and ammo from my weapon disappear until I drop the weapon on the ground and pick it back up. 

It was easily worked around by doing just that, I realise bugs are to be expected :)

 

Then I came across a strange situation where I couldn't drop weapon to my back to drink from fountain, So in trying to force it to do so by bandaging I ended up duping the weapon, then again when at fountain when drinking I duped another:

 

 

By all means remove this post mods if you think it shouldn't be here, just so long as you are aware of it, you can't make it happen, indeed this incident at the fountain was the first time where a dupe happened for me.

A lot of that sort of strange behavior is linked to using the hot bar. I no longer experience those problems, since I stopped using it.

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

Digging for worms is pretty easily done with ones hands.

 

Lift a rock, grab a worm....

[wasnu (DayZ) 392]

A cooking pot takes up less inventory space and it cooks more food at once, so it's a time saver. Currently, you can even store other items in the pot. Same with the skillet. Additionally, it makes for a pretty good melee weapon. I confess that I haven't tried to hit any one with a cooking pot yet, so I don't know how effective they may be.

 

The stick takes up a lot of inventory space and you can only store one food item on it (for example apples, or berries). The stick can be used for other purposes, though, including as a weapon, so it is much more flexible.

 

You no longer have to search for matches, but if you find them, so much the better. Matches take up very little space, but if you can't find them, you have other options.

 

It's all about options and choice and it is the same with computers. Some people like an operating system that enables a task to be performed several different ways, according to the user's preference and / or convenience. Other people are uncomfortable with choice and so they purchase Apple products.  :D

 

ok, that makes sense.

 

best part is .....so they purchase Apple products.   :D... and went to steam forum to ask how to run DayZ on their 3k dollar machine :rolleyes:  

[bauertschi 254]

sorry, I only started playing this build yesterdayso apologies if already reported:

I am getting a bug where when I log in or even use fountain/drink soda/eat food the attachments and ammo from my weapon disappear until I drop the weapon on the ground and pick it back up. 

It was easily worked around by doing just that, I realise bugs are to be expected :)

 

Then I came across a strange situation where I couldn't drop weapon to my back to drink from fountain, So in trying to force it to do so by bandaging I ended up duping the weapon, then again when at fountain when drinking I duped another:

 

 

By all means remove this post mods if you think it shouldn't be here, just so long as you are aware of it, you can't make it happen, indeed this incident at the fountain was the first time where a dupe happened for me.

 

Try lowering your weapon before doing something, someone wrote that helped .. currently I have no weapon with attachments, so I did not test is myself.

[ebrim 998]

Now that I've come to rely on ashwoods for cooking, I've also noticed there's a great ashwood desert in the middle of the map which is made sadder still by animals being most plentiful there...

Edited May 17, 2015 by Ebrim

[Tatanko 5591]

the problem i see is, why use the "original" items for that. stone knife only needs 1slot and is found at startup.

Same with cooking on ashwood sticks, why keep an cookingpot or pan?

Why try to find matches to start an fire when you get your firerstarter at the next tree?

 

for me the original designed items to survive in the woods will stay forever on their place cause no one will take them, cause no one need it.

Manufactured items, as opposed to the ones you craft, often take up less space and will last a lot longer (or have many uses versus only being able to use a crafted item once). The stone knife will be made less useful in the future too, in that it won't be a swiss army knife that does everything really well -- you won't get as much food if you open a can with it, less meat from skinning, etc.

[Beizs 186]

i tend to have more luck on high pop servers, because loot is being picked up more, and being respawned more.

 

CLE is still broken.

 

Clearly not, even in your own words, you state that loot is being respawned as it's being picked up. I 100% agree with you on that. The CLE isn't broken, it's just not finished. The only reason loot appears to be uncommon on some servers is because heavily trafficked areas are picked clean, leaving most loot in less trafficked areas. Oh, and by the way, there's a good chance that, even if you claim you've been to less visited places and still found no loot, you're wrong. Most people on EXP know that less commonly visited places have less loot, so they look for places that are frequented less and, as such, the whole thing gets skewed.

 

But loot is respawning. You agree with that. I'm sure the controls are working well too (I've seen less very good stuff and more basic stuff, which is what you'd expect CLE to do). CLE is not broken. I wish people would learn to see the difference.

[ebrim 998]

The new (new to me?) 1pp aiming with the bow is really nice - still practicing with it.

[hekp 223]

Impro. backpack aka prettiest backpack out there still not working

Motorcycle helmet now takes 3x3 slots in your inventory

 

As some already said, you can now wear hats with the gas mask. It didn't let me wear it with the motorcycle helmet, however when i got to the main dayz character menu, my character wore the gas mask underneath the helmet. The mouth part was sticking out somewhat like the girls pony tail does.

It looks quite awesome :D

 

I took a solnichy-bere-dubrovka-gorka route and had an easy time surviving. Loot was quite scarce, but i still managed to come across 6 different ammo types, 5 firearms and all the necessary stuff to survive including some food. It defenately took longer but I liked it.

Edited May 17, 2015 by halp