Fuel Source Depletion And Alternative Fuel Sources (Server Uptime)

[Steak and Potatoes 13480]

With the implementation of vehicle(s), I am making this suggestion with the best intentions.  I suggest all servers have a fuel source depletion timer/user amount and in turn a craftable means to equip and run vehicles with alternative resources.  Example would be if a server is running for 3 weeks, the tax on all the fuel sources i.e. players constantly filling at stations/airfields/industrials would eventually run dry.  After the servers main fuel sources have run dry players would be forced to craft alternative resources such as bio mass or vegetable oil to operate vehicles.  The duration would last on a month or two month timer so at the end of it the resources would be replenished/reset.  When resources run dry vehicles will have a scroll option to convert with a tool box and listed parts.  Diesel vehicles will have an option to convert to bio fuel or vegetable oil, gas vehicles will have an option to convert to bio mass.  Once using alternative resources, vehicles would run at a slower rate of speed, emit more smoke/soot and have a higher turn around on maintenance.  Below listed is the craftable options (subject to change) for alternative resources with crafting list.

 

Bio Mass(wood pellets)- Use an axe to cut wood chips off trees/combine and compress to create wood pellets which take x amount of inventory space as a jerry can. 

 

Vegetable Oil- Looted from markets and pubs filled into jerry cans.

 

"Disclaimer"- I know alternate energy including electric cars have been mentioned in the past. This is entirely based on a time/realism outlook for servers on the public hive.

 

Feel free to add, discuss, shoot down or call me stupid.

 

Best Regards,

 

Steak.

[d.walker43 196]

Its a good idea, but its simply not possible. Unless you switch out the entire engine pretty much, you cannot convert it to different fuel types. Now, that being said, there are cars that are able to take multiple fuels, for example I know that most minivans being made today have the option to take gas with ethanol added to it, along with straight up gasoline. I think it would be cool to have different cars that take different types of gas in-game, it would be hilarious when the casuals take the first gas can they find and put it into their car and completely destroy the engine :P

 

Also, is there such thing as cars that run on things like vegetable oil? No offense but im pretty sure that doesn't exist :)

 

It was a good idea, but its just not realistic and irl not possible to do.

 

All the best,

Walker

[Thumper1999 48]

Interesting I cant wait for steam to download :)

 

I set steam to auto update

[Steak and Potatoes 13480]

Also, is there such thing as cars that run on things like vegetable oil? No offense but im pretty sure that doesn't exist :)

 

 

Yes, I would not pull a suggestion out of my arse without legitimate backing.  Majority of older diesel engines prior to egr coolers and heavy smog laws can run off vegetable oil/biodiesel and or a combination of vegetable oil and petroluem without any mechanical changes.  Majority of the fuel used is pulled from things like fryer dumps in restaurants.  The reason you do not see them much is because there is no ability to tax it like you would normal petrol.

 

 

Biodiesel is a type of fuel derived from vegetable sources, often soy, but is refined at a special facility which must follow anti-pollution laws and other fuel regulations. Many vehicles with diesel engines can run on biodiesel or a blend of biodiesel and petroleum diesel without much modification [source: National Biodiesel Board].

Using vegetable oil to fuel a vehicle is an entirely different matter. You're basically using the vegetable oil you can buy at the supermarket (or get for free from a restaurant) as fuel. It's more of a do-it-yourself type of alternative fuel. It doesn't go through any refining process and it isn't regulated or tested according to environmental laws. In fact, using this type of fuel could be illegal in some states, as state and federal revenue agents in the U.S. require special licenses to drive the converted cars as well as payment of motor.

 

Here is a list of 7 alternative fuel sources which are currently legitimate.

 

Steak.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Steak and Potatoes

[kichilron 8550]

Its a good idea, but its simply not possible. Unless you switch out the entire engine pretty much, you cannot convert it to different fuel types.

 

I don't know what you mean?

 

if (inputtype == "RapsOil") then {

   _vehicle setFuel = _vehicle getFuel + 0.1;

} else {

   _vehicle setFuel = _vehicle getFuel + 0.2;

};

 

It's not magic to differentiate between, is it?

 

 

 

call me stupid.

 

You're stupid anyway.

Edited December 1, 2014 by kichilron

[tommy290 941]

Also, is there such thing as cars that run on things like vegetable oil? No offense but im pretty sure that doesn't exist :)

 

It was a good idea, but its just not realistic and irl not possible to do.

 

 

https://greasecar.com/

 

Gotta love technology, eh? :)

[Steak and Potatoes 13480]

I don't know what you mean?

 

if (inputtype == "RapsOil") then {

   _vehicle setFuel = _vehicle getFuel + 0.1;

} else {

   _vehicle setFuel = _vehicle getFuel + 0.2;

};

 

It's not magic to differentiate between, is it?

 

Now that we have that line of code out of the way, forwarding to Rocket.

 

 

You're stupid anyway.

 

 

Edited December 1, 2014 by Steak and Potatoes

[boneboys 7988]

Moderators pull ideas out of their hat, not asses :rolleyes: 

 

Server would need max fuel (per resource) and depletion when diminished.

 

Carry on.

[Karmaterror 982]

I like it, making us rely on other things than the pumps....but.....does this mean we will need to store our....you know what to make the bio fuels? lol

 

I think maybe there should just be a few vehiles that spawn already converted to alternate fuel. I just think having us survivors perform the conversion is a little much. It a pretty specialist thing, something nott everyone can do.

 

Maybe the tanks could replenish a small amount each hour, say 1 jerry cans worth. Thaat way you never know what state the pump you head for is in. Instead of knowing that its depleaated for the next week or 2. Might keep people moving roundthe map in search of less frequented pumps :)

 

On a similar note id like to see a new fuel tank model for airfields and only have aviation fuel avalible there :)

Edited December 1, 2014 by Karmaterror

[B4GEL 175]

The alternative fuel idea is good, but I'm not sure the fuel depletion mechanic would work on public servers where there is new people coming in and and out continuously. If there were random fluctuations in the amount of fuel in gas stations over each restart perhaps it would achieve the same effect in making people look for alternatives.
To me permanent resource depletion just doesn't make much sense in terms of of creating a narrative unless there is a fixed community that is there from the beginning. So it could work well on a private hive (perhaps all pre-apocalypse resources could run out?), but on on a public server most people hopping in and out would experience it no differently than they would randomly fluctuating fuel reserves and unless reserves are based on a fixed timer rather than amount of fuel consumed on the server those in the know could game the system by hopping over to a server with lots of gas and bring it back to refuel.

Edited December 1, 2014 by B4GEL

[BeefBacon 1185]

Would this mean vehicles would respawn? Can't help but think that all the vehicles would be destroyed before all the fuel could be used. If vehicles can respawn it doesn't really make sense to have fuel be limited, even if there are alternatives.

 

I'd like there to be alternative fuel sources, but I think gas stations should be unlimited (unless destroyed) making them valuable locations to control.

[pilgrim* 3514]

Its a good idea, but its simply not possible. Unless you switch out the entire engine pretty much, you cannot convert it to different fuel types.

 

I have a friend - an aircraft engineer - who runs his diesel Daimler saloon on used vegetable oil from chip-shops. It is the original engine, block, pistons, and all the accessories as standard.. but two fuel tanks - he starts up with diesel, then when the motor is running (after maybe 30 seconds) he switches to second-hand vegetable oil. He has an electric switch on the dashboard to do this. In fact he has under the bonnet two parallel standard "diesel" distributors (the original + one extra) feeding into the same injectors,  and a solenoid to switch over the twin fuel feeds. He built this modification himself, drives across Europe in it. Standard old Daimler speeds. No problems, except collecting the oil, because there is competition for used vegetable oil in the UK now - it has a value. we had fun when he visited (France) trying to get used oil out of restaurants and fast food places, and anywhere else we could think of (hotel kitchens) most of them already have a deal going, but they were kind to us. If the worst happens, you can still run on diesel.

Also - the car does not smell in the slightest of either vegetable oil or diesel. Also, he points out it is not his original idea. You should be able to find plans on the web, but I have never looked myself (one link already in this thread, but you will find plans and how-tos also).

He filters the oil as he is putting it in the tank, but apart from that there are no additives or special treatments.

 

 

edit: no one seen those 2nd WW photos of Brit cars running on a big balloon full of sewer gas?  Gas tapped off farm cesspits (methane). Got to be cesspits around the rural areas, right? those big farms - should be pretty ripe by now..

I guess I can find a photo for ya..

 

This link claims there were gas-powered public transport conversions already running in WW 1, probably coal gas?:

http://www.edinphoto.org.uk/0_edin_t/0_edinburgh_transport_-_buses_gas_powered_during_ww2.htm

But WW2 def. used cesspit gas generators (early 'biogas') - this site is about a BBC documentary on car-power from chicken manure/septic tank wastes (1970):

http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/methane_bate.html

Here is a general vehicle-conversion history : (interesting site).

http://www.automostory.com/first-hydrogen-car.htm

 

Also I just heard the French were trying out compressed-air cars by the 1930s.

If ya' interested in alternative energy from dung and landfill look at the USA Cow Power initiative, and info on other stuff done with biogas

(this goes past tech for DayZ but.; it's jus' interesting for itself) :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biogas#Biogas_in_transport

 

xx

Edited December 1, 2014 by pilgrim

[kichilron 8550]

I have a friend - an aircraft engineer - who runs his diesel Daimler saloon on used vegetable oil from chip-shops. It is the original engine, block, pistons, and all the accessories as standard.. but two fuel tanks - he starts up with diesel, then when the motor is running (after maybe 30 seconds) he switches to second-hand vegetable oil. He has an electric switch on the dashboard to do this. In fact he has under the bonnet two parallel standard "diesel" distributors (the original + one extra) feeding into the same injectors,  and a solenoid to switch over the twin fuel feeds. He built this modification himself, drives across Europe in it. Standard old Daimler speeds. No problems, except collecting the oil, because there is competition for used vegetable oil in the UK now - it has a value. we had fun when he visited (France) trying to get used oil out of restaurants and fast food places, and anywhere else we could think of (hotel kitchens) most of them already have a deal going, but they were kind to us. If the worst happens, you can still run on diesel.

Also - the car does not smell in the slightest of either vegetable oil or diesel. Also, he points out it is not his original idea. You should be able to find plans on the web, but I have never looked myself (one link already in this thread, but you will find plans and how-tos also).

He filters the oil as he is putting it in the tank, but apart from that there are no additives or special treatments.

 

xx

 

 

Not to mention it is highly illegal, as you're disallowing the state the tax-income. Can even go to jail in Germany. Also the reason oil for heating your house is exactly the same, except for the color. If they find you using that, you're in big trouble.

 

But that all is very offtopic, however it boils (HA!) down to this:

 

I would very much take the Diesel-Car in the case of an apocalypse, simply because fuel is theoretically abundant (as noone's going to rush to your nearest grocerystore to pile up on vegetable oil). Actually have thought about this in the past.

Edited December 1, 2014 by kichilron

[Steak and Potatoes 13480]

I would very much take the Diesel-Car in the case of an apocalypse, simply because fuel is theoretically abundant (as noone's going to rush to your nearest grocerystore to pile up on vegetable oil). Actually have thought about this in the past.

 

Same I actually have an old diesel truck I have been meaning to test it on, I bought all the oil from wholesale and it has two tanks one of which I have not filled in about a year as I do not drive it often.  I just have to hide from my neighbor in my garage/labratory as he works for the state and issues emissions violations everywhere.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Steak and Potatoes

[Mor (DayZ) 57]

With the implementation of vehicle(s), I am making this suggestion with the best intentions.  I suggest all servers have a fuel source depletion timer/user amount and in turn a craftable means to equip and run vehicles with alternative resources. 

[...]

Vegetable Oil- Looted from markets and pubs filled into jerry cans.

Its a good idea, but I am not sure about the implementation. It seems silly to me that fuel will be the only finite resource in the game (guns/bullets nope, fresh oranges nope etc). Also it sound wrong that we would be able to dry out at gas station that hold at least 25tons of fuel, to be replaced with ultimate replenish-able fuel source, THE COOKING OIL... ( Announcer: now available for free at your local quicky-mart for the zombie-apoclypse season, please come again )

In H1Z1 you can grow corn and produced ethanol, which IMO it would be a better complimentary mechanic.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Mor

[svisketyggeren 662]

I think its a good idea to create some form of competition for gasoline....it will serve as good motive for raiding other players bases in the future. Kinda like ammo should be scarce, petrol should also be scarce and highly sought after.

[Steak and Potatoes 13480]

In H1Z1 you can grow corn and produced ethanol, which IMO it would be a better complimentary mechanic.

 

This would be something along the lines of what I am aiming for interms of melting crafting with sustainable resource use.  Also unless we are grabbing from the holding containers which would run out in due time we would need electricity from a generator because the pumps run on electricity. A power inverter could be used to power the pump from a car battery or running engine. Inside stations that do car repair there are pumps often on balk oil containers. Once cleaned up of the existing fluid (oil) it might be possible to rig up a hose that would reach the gasoline in the storage tank and hand crank the gas up from the ground since we cannot use the main pumps.

[umberfive 89]

Those rotten apples might have a use then. But the idea of resource depletion is good. Of course blown up gas stations should be unusable and the gas should be subtracted from the servers total gas amount. I still would blow up every gas station.

[blaf 63]

...ending with this

Edited December 1, 2014 by Blaf

[IkaikaKekai 1957]

Biodiesel could be made from not only vegetable oil but also from animal fats.  A large pig could provide a few gallons of biodiesel if processed correctly.  There was an interesting concept done durring one of those Zombie Survival design contests where the designer made a system to 'collect' zombies to make 'Zombdiesel' from the corpses.

 

Gasifiers would be another choice but would require more construction.

[NuckFuts 265]

I hope to see the return of Jerry.

 

That is all.

[pilgrim* 3514]

Not to mention it is highly illegal, as you're disallowing the state the tax-income. Can even go to jail in Germany. Also the reason oil for heating your house is exactly the same, except for the color. If they find you using that, you're in big trouble.

 

I shall ask him about this. As he works in his company as a team leader specifically on a government aircraft design contract, and his wife is an official, a specialist employed in aircraft failure and crash analysis - they are intelligently careful, aware, and diligent in remaining legal in all their activities (to the extent of my knowledge). I would not consider tax evasion would be something they would enter into.

 

They are responsible and respectable folk, unlike myself (not that I'm in any position to evade taxes). I'm just a bum.

Hmm.. Almost a bum. I do have a Level 1 (the lowest) NATO security clearance, for what its worth ( ... long ago and far away .. ).

 

The BBC did a documentary on a car powered by chicken-shit, the car was approved by the Brit Govt. Ministry of Transport, the BBC claim - but no one mentions taxes. The link is in my post above on this thread.

 

xx

Edited December 1, 2014 by pilgrim

[kichilron 8550]

I shall ask him about this. As he works in his company as a team leader specifically on a government aircraft design contract, and his wife is an official, a specialist employed in aircraft failure and crash analysis - they are intelligently careful, aware, and diligent in remaining legal in all their activities (to the extent of my knowledge). I would not consider tax evasion would be something they would enter into.

 

They are responsible and respectable folk, unlike myself (not that I'm in any position to evade taxes). I'm just a bum.

 

xx

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetable_oil_fuel#Legal_implications

 

Apparently legal, but only if you pay the taxes on it. But that's just theoretical anyway - noone would ever do that and I doubt you have done it in your case.

 

It's a big thing in Germany (I mean it's being tested by police a lot), not only rapsoil, but also oil used for heating, as it's using different tax-rates. If you're caught, bad things will happen and you will pay huge fines.

Edited December 1, 2014 by kichilron

[mangozapp 46]

Not to mention it is highly illegal, as you're disallowing the state the tax-income. Can even go to jail in Germany. Also the reason oil for heating your house is exactly the same, except for the color. If they find you using that, you're in big trouble.

 

In the UK, at least, running on veg oil is perfectly legal. Only fairly hardcore, mechanically minded folks tend to use veg oil however as, though it's pretty simple, it's pretty time consuming sourcing the stuff and filtering it so it doesn't cause problems. Also only pre-CPU vehicles (mid nineties or earlier) tend to enjoy the experience so that disqualifies 95% of car owners - which is probably why it remains legal.

 

...But that is all very off topic. ;)

 

ON topic:

 

I think the main problem with this idea is server hopping.

If you've found an empty vehicle and have run a long way to find an empty fuel station I think very few people are going to be able to resist hopping - if the alternatives are either running miles to another (which might also be empty) or a whole lot of looting to craft an alternative fuel - knowing that either option will likely mean the vehicle will be gone by the time you've done that - with it probably being taken by someone who isn't so 'morally correct' and has simply hopped at the nearby station. 

In the other scenario, where you have the car but you run out of fuel near an empty fuel station... You've the same choices but then you're really trusting that it won't be found by a server hopper because there's a station 'right there' for him to hop from...  So, naa, sorry, knowing DayZ I'd join the hoppers in that situation and save myself the frustration of feeling like I'm the only one 'playing with honour'.

If you're playing in a team then it's a bit different, you could guard the car then while one messes about... But lone wolves, I think would be hard pushed not to server hop.

Mmm.

[d.walker43 196]

Yes, I would not pull a suggestion out of my arse without legitimate backing.  Majority of older diesel engines prior to egr coolers and heavy smog laws can run off vegetable oil/biodiesel and or a combination of vegetable oil and petroluem without any mechanical changes.  Majority of the fuel used is pulled from things like fryer dumps in restaurants.  The reason you do not see them much is because there is no ability to tax it like you would normal petrol.

 

 

 

Here is a list of 7 alternative fuel sources which are currently legitimate.

 

Steak.

 

Hmm..well, looks like I was wrong. However, just because the technology exists does not mean that it is common and found everywhere. Have you ever actually seen a car in real life that runs on fry oil from McDonalds? Im gonna assume that's a no. And, as you said yourself, the technology is not common. So in DayZ, which is at least several years after the collapse of society, there probably wont be any of this type of technology left.

 

I don't know what you mean?

 

if (inputtype == "RapsOil") then {

   _vehicle setFuel = _vehicle getFuel + 0.1;

} else {

   _vehicle setFuel = _vehicle getFuel + 0.2;

};

 

It's not magic to differentiate between, is it?

 

 

 

 

You're stupid anyway.

 

<_< I meant the car engine. not the game engine.