DayZ Mod 1.8.3

[BC_Hawke 276]

I thought about losing your victims humanity (some percentage of it) but that calculation has to be balanced, so

that you turn bandit/hero in a fair amount of kills.

That's actually how humanity loss works now.  I don't know the exact math of it, but you will lose 2500 humanity for killing a fresh spawn, but much more humanity if you kill a hero.  If they were to add humanity gains for killing bandits, it would have to be a fraction of what you lose for killing survivors (for example you gain 25 points for killing a -2500 bandit).  If it were equivalent to humanity losses for killing survivors/heroes, there would be no incentive to play as a hero and it would simply become red vs blue.  Additionally it would be way too easy for people to just go on a shooting spree on survivors then go bandit hunting to get back up to survivor status quickly.

 

Either way, it's kind of moot because the devs have stated they want to revamp humanity entirely, so I believe that they're not looking at making any changes to the current system.  In my opinion, however they change it, it should still be a challenge to maintain survivor status and be really difficult to get a hero skin.  Too many people feel they shouldn't lose humanity at all for shooting in self defense, but if you think about it, killing someone, even in self defense, has an effect on the psyche.  If you were killing people on a regular basis that were attacking you first, you'd start to question your humanity and whether what you're doing to protect your own is right or wrong.  For a really good look into this read the book or watch the movie The Road.

[Borges (DayZ) 40]

Nice post bullet, but I think atleast +50 or +100 humanity for killing bandits would be fair. They could always cap it out at any value they wanted. There is just no incentive at all to kill bandits, even for a small reward. 

Edited December 13, 2014 by Borges

[geryon 180]

That's actually how humanity loss works now.  I don't know the exact math of it, but you will lose 2500 humanity for killing a fresh spawn, but much more humanity if you kill a hero.  If they were to add humanity gains for killing bandits, it would have to be a fraction of what you lose for killing survivors (for example you gain 25 points for killing a -2500 bandit).  If it were equivalent to humanity losses for killing survivors/heroes, there would be no incentive to play as a hero and it would simply become red vs blue.  Additionally it would be way too easy for people to just go on a shooting spree on survivors then go bandit hunting to get back up to survivor status quickly.

 

Either way, it's kind of moot because the devs have stated they want to revamp humanity entirely, so I believe that they're not looking at making any changes to the current system.  In my opinion, however they change it, it should still be a challenge to maintain survivor status and be really difficult to get a hero skin.  Too many people feel they shouldn't lose humanity at all for shooting in self defense, but if you think about it, killing someone, even in self defense, has an effect on the psyche.  If you were killing people on a regular basis that were attacking you first, you'd start to question your humanity and whether what you're doing to protect your own is right or wrong.  For a really good look into this read the book or watch the movie The Road.

I agree gaining redemption for killing people by killing more people seems wrong.  Preserving lives should be the logical way to gaining humanity.

[RomanZ (DayZ) 24]

[...] the devs have stated they want to revamp humanity entirely, so I believe that they're not looking at making any changes to the current system.

 

The question is when this is going to be implemented. The humanity system has been broken for so long now (at least since the introduction of blood types in May and since the shutdown of the hive). Since then player counts have plummeted. So far there is no official statement or discussion on how the new humanity system is going to work or when it is going to be built in. Is it even in the planning phase at least? Nobody knows...

[r4z0r49 4761]

You guys have already discussed most of the issues around that system no need for us to say the same thing. We want to revamp but getting a system that will work is another question not to mention having the time to strip it all and rebuild.

 

Once i have a new system you guys will be the first to know. In the meantime your welcome to come up with ideas or better still contribute towards a new system on github.

[Borges (DayZ) 40]

I agree gaining redemption for killing people by killing more people seems wrong.  Preserving lives should be the logical way to gaining humanity.

 

This is actually why I'm starting to enjoy the humanity regen system. Really makes me think before pulling the trigger aside from the harder survival mechanics. I'm finding it more beneficial to avoid combat altogether to get my humanity near the 0 range and only save losses for self defense kills only if i'm to stay survivor skin. I think my days as a blood bandit are over. Once I'm over -10k I have a compulsion to kill everyone :s

Edited December 14, 2014 by Borges

[kernalpanic 35]

Personally, I like the current system but think it needs a few tweaks to make it bit more robust.
 
I strongly feel that killing in self defense shouldn't be treated the same as a cold blooded murder. Afterall, you did not initate the fight but are now penalized for protecting yourself!?! Doens't seem very fair. I think in a real world situation a majority of people would kill if truely threatened by force. I'm not suggestiong that you get off completly unpenalized but rather a sliding scale that multiplies the penelty according to the number of self defense kills you've tallied up. And I'm only talking about self defense kills (e.g. shot or shot at first)
 
Self Defense Kill  /  Humanity loss:
 

• 1st Kill : -250 humanity
• 2 - 5 Kills : -500 humanity
• 6 - 10 Kills : -750 humanity
• 11 - 15 Kills : -1000 humanity
• 16 + Kills : -1500 humanity

again, I must stress that this only applies for self defense kills. Pure agression / cold blooded survivor and hero kills should continue to be punished at the max level.

 

---

 

With regards to how humanity is gained over time: I would like to know specifically how it is generated (i.e. how much over how long) I like the mechanic but what's preventing someone from just hiding in a tree for the day gaining humanity over time?

 

---

 

My last suggestion has to do with gaining humanity for killing zombies. Zombies are in fact a treat to all of chenarus as should be the main antagonist in the game. Doing something to rid the area of the zombie outbreak should be considered a good deed and players should be a rewarded for doing it.

 

I suggest giving the player 1 humanity point for each zombie they kill. If it's a head shot give them 2 points. If they hide the body give them another. (so 3 humanity points total for each zombie if they headshot and hide the body) If some system like this is addopted we should go back to the way zed were calibrated in 1.8.1 as they were a real threat. It was the only version of the mod besides 1.7.7 where zombies actually killed me on a regular basis.

 

Keep up the good work Devs and thanks for keeping this great game alive!

Edited December 15, 2014 by m0tzilla

[r4z0r49 4761]

We have published a development branch on github (just change the branch) for you guys to test the sway and bloodbags. I'll look at humanity after new year see what we can do with that system

[BC_Hawke 276]

Nice post bullet, but I think atleast +50 or +100 humanity for killing bandits would be fair. They could always cap it out at any value they wanted. There is just no incentive at all to kill bandits, even for a small reward. 

For me just the enjoyment of battle and plundering the gear of the fallen is enough incentive for me to kill bandits!  =)

[BC_Hawke 276]

Personally, I like the current system but think it needs a few tweaks to make it bit more robust.

 

I strongly feel that killing in self defense shouldn't be treated the same as a cold blooded murder. Afterall, you did not initate the fight but are now penalized for protecting yourself!?! Doens't seem very fair. I think in a real world situation a majority of people would kill if truely threatened by force. I'm not suggestiong that you get off completly unpenalized but rather a sliding scale that multiplies the penelty according to the number of self defense kills you've tallied up. And I'm only talking about self defense kills (e.g. shot or shot at first)

 

Self Defense Kill  /  Humanity loss:

 

• 1st Kill : -250 humanity
• 2 - 5 Kills : -500 humanity
• 6 - 10 Kills : -750 humanity
• 11 - 15 Kills : -1000 humanity
• 16 + Kills : -1500 humanity

again, I must stress that this only applies for self defense kills. Pure agression / cold blooded survivor and hero kills should continue to be punished at the max level.

 

---

 

With regards to how humanity is gained over time: I would like to know specifically how it is generated (i.e. how much over how long) I like the mechanic but what's preventing someone from just hiding in a tree for the day gaining humanity over time?

 

---

 

My last suggestion has to do with gaining humanity for killing zombies. Zombies are in fact a treat to all of chenarus as should be the main antagonist in the game. Doing something to rid the area of the zombie outbreak should be considered a good deed and players should be a rewarded for doing it.

 

I suggest giving the player 1 humanity point for each zombie they kill. If it's a head shot give them 2 points. If they hide the body give them another. (so 3 humanity points total for each zombie if they headshot and hide the body) If some system like this is addopted we should go back to the way zed were calibrated in 1.8.1 as they were a real threat. It was the only version of the mod besides 1.7.7 where zombies actually killed me on a regular basis.

 

Keep up the good work Devs and thanks for keeping this great game alive!

m0tzilla makes some great points.  The question becomes how to get the game to know the difference between self defense kills and cold blooded murders.  Is it even possible?  People have suggested things like being able to kill someone that has shot you without losing humanity, but what if I'm a bandit and I come up on a survivor, shoot and completely miss him, then he shoots back at me and wounds me, so on the next shot I kill him, then the game considers my kill a self defense kill.  I just slaughtered an innocent survivor but I don't lose any humanity.  Unfortunately I have ZERO coding or modding experience so I can't even begin to make suggestions on how to make this happen.

 

I will agree, however, that there should always be some humanity loss for killing survivors, even if in self defense for the reasons I mentioned earlier about questioning your humanity after killing someone even in self defense.

 

As for humanity gain over time, I don't see hiding in a tree and letting it go up an issue as the gain is incredibly slow at this point, and hunger and thirst would force you to go hunting and visit towns or bodies of water which basically mimics the way some people play anyways (you know, the DayZ hermits that like to stay on the outer edges in the woods hunting, camping, and surviving).

 

The only way I'd be on board with adding humanity gain for killing zombies would be if zombies were a serious threat again.  Just as m0tzilla said bringing back the 1.8.1 zombies would be fantastic for this.

 

One thing I feel that I have to actually call out though is how so many people call DayZ mod's humanity system "completely broken".  I beg to differ.  Sure, it has exploits (like ANY other mechanic in ANY game) such as blood  bag farming and transfusing friends over and over (though blood types has made that much more difficult), but I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that people that call it "broken" actually just don't like the system or can't deal with it.  I think it's a fantastic system, especially the persistent nature of it (particularly back in the public hive days).  This is the FIRST multiplayer sandbox game that I've ever played where my actions truly have consequences that cannot just be reset easily.  A lot of people get upset about losing humanity to self defense kills and claim that it's broken or impossible, but my friends and I have been able to adapt to the system and play in a way that we (for the most part) have survivor/hero skins but regularly get into fights with bandits and are able to finish off hostile survivors that become bandits after shooting our higher humanity teammates.  It's a bummer to lose your gear to a survivor that you don't want to shoot, but I find it odd that players get so attached to gear that can obtained again in just a few hours of gameplay while recouping 2500 or more humanity points can take days or weeks.  If/when they implement some system for discerning murders from self defense people will just find exploits to that system and us it to their advantage.  Personally I LOVE the tension in trying to talk or negotiate with other players with the consequences of humanity loss hanging over my head.  It's led to some crazy situations of talking people down during a Mexican standoff and/or wounding survivors to get them down then forcing them to drop their weapon by threat of killing them...then bandaging them and letting them go on their way.  These experiences trump deathmatch shoot outs by FAR in my opinion and they are one of the main reasons I play DayZ mod over any number of other FPS games where all there is to do is kill people.

[Borges (DayZ) 40]

For me just the enjoyment of battle and plundering the gear of the fallen is enough incentive for me to kill bandits!  =)

 

Of course of course.

[RomanZ (DayZ) 24]

The only way I'd be on board with adding humanity gain for killing zombies would be if zombies were a serious threat again.

 

I prefer someone's (who was it again?) recent suggestion of +1 humanity for killing a zombie that is aggroed at somebody else. In a zombie apocalypse, isn't that one of the most human things you could possibly do, saving somebody from being attacked? It also shouldn't be too hard to program (unlike the self-defense thing).

 

 

One thing I feel that I have to actually call out though is how so many people call DayZ mod's humanity system "completely broken".  I beg to differ.  Sure, it has exploits (like ANY other mechanic in ANY game) such as blood  bag farming and transfusing friends over and over (though blood types has made that much more difficult), but I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that people that call it "broken" actually just don't like the system or can't deal with it.

 

I'm one of those who call it "broken", and yes, obviously I don't like the way the system is currently working, but no, it's not that I can't deal with it. I've got >=2500 humanity on all servers (which is why I'd say I can deal with it), but I'm struggling with becoming the hero I used to be on the hive. Why? Three reasons:

1. Increasing humanity has become much more difficult than it used to be (many more items needed, medical items much less common, blood types don't match often, less space to carry items because more food/drinks needed, less backpack spawns, blood transfusions bugged, etc.)

2. Humanity is far easier to gain for clan players than for loners. Three bandits, one hero who's patching them up. All team mates pass their medical gear to the hero. Certainly that cannot be the way it's meant to be. Lone wolves who try to help strangers wherever they can are far inferior.

3. No more public hive. Humanity is persistent only among servers with shared database (just a single one usually, except the FR34/129 and US434/435 servers). Only if you play many hours per day over many weeks on a single server you can currently become a hero. That's just not possible for many of us.

 

For point 3 there's nobody to blame here, although I think that the humanity system should be adapted to the fact that the hive has gone for good. But points 1 & 2 make the humanity system seem very imbalanced to me. Perhaps not "broken" (whatever that is supposed to mean), but imbalanced. At this moment there aren't more than a handful heroes globally. The Europa server for instance has five heroes out of 18k unique players. Many others obviously play "hero-style", as they have a humanity of well above 2500, but the game doesn't let them become one. That's what I'd call imbalanced.

Edited December 17, 2014 by RomanZ

[BC_Hawke 276]

1. Increasing humanity has become much more difficult than it used to be (many more items needed, medical items much less common, blood types don't match often, less space to carry items because more food/drinks needed, less backpack spawns, blood transfusions bugged, etc.)

1.8.1 increased the challenge of the game in many ways, and it's one of those areas you just have to adapt.  We've adapted by making more use out of stashes for both medical gear and food/water so that we don't have to be carrying all of it at once.  As far as blood types, you're usually pretty well off if you can carry an O+, A-, and B- with you.  Those blood bags are fairly common and you'll only get hosed if you run into a guy with O-.  By the way, I'm not sure why you sai medical items are much less common...I find med boxes at hospitals, med tents, and heli crash sites all the time.  As far as bugged blood transfusions, that has absolutely nothing to do with how the humanity system is set up.  Yes, it sucks big time (I accidentally killed a survivor in soldier clothing 3 weeks ago and it took me over 2 weeks of playing to get back to survivor status through regen and giving people painkillers and morphine), but it's just something we'll have to wait to be fixed and again has nothing to do with the humanity system.

 

 

2. Humanity is far easier to gain for clan players than for loners. Three bandits, one hero who's patching them up. All team mates pass their medical gear to the hero. Certainly that cannot be the way it's meant to be. Lone wolves who try to help strangers wherever they can are far inferior.

That's just how the game goes.  Of course it's easier with a group.  Almost everything in DayZ is easier with a group.  That's part of how the game functions.  It's beneficial to team up.  You'll have more firepower, more inventory slots to carry gear, extra sets of eyes, the ability to multitask, people to sit in the gunner seat of choppers, the list goes on.  Playing lone wolf is your choice.  It has benefits and it has downsides.  You can't blame the humanity system for your gameplay choices.  Granted, having one hero patching up bandit teammates is a really cheap way to play, but you'll run into those types of exploits with pretty much any karma system unless you remove the ability to gain humanity from administering medical help to bandits.  Becoming a hero as a lone wolf just takes more patience and skill.

 

3. No more public hive. Humanity is persistent only among servers with shared database (just a single one usually, except the FR34/129 and US434/435 servers). Only if you play many hours per day over many weeks on a single server you can currently become a hero. That's just not possible for many of us.

Yeah, it really sucks that the public hive is gone, but the answer to this is to find a server or two that you like and play on them exclusively.  Honestly there's so few (populated) vanilla servers out there that the public hive would almost be pointless.  It would be the equivalent to 4-5 vanilla servers hived together like what BMRF used to do.  Trust me, I really, REALLY wish the public hive was still around, but there's so few server choices it doesn't have as much impact as it used to.

 

 

For point 3 there's nobody to blame here, although I think that the humanity system should be adapted to the fact that the hive has gone for good. But points 1 & 2 make the humanity system seem very imbalanced to me. Perhaps not "broken" (whatever that is supposed to mean), but imbalanced. At this moment there aren't more than a handful heroes globally. The Europa server for instance has five heroes out of 18k unique players. Many others obviously play "hero-style", as they have a humanity of well above 2500, but the game doesn't let them become one. That's what I'd call imbalanced.

 

As you stated above, blood bagging is bugged right now.  Of course it's reeking havoc with the balance of heroes to bandits.  I've been completely avoiding shooting survivors at ALL since 1.8.3 came out and I'm right at 0 humanity because of one accidental murder.  Honestly, most of the changes that people "would like to see" in the humanity system would end up devaluing the survivor and hero skins.  Yes, tweaks could definitely help, and maybe a whole new system will be better, but I STILL like the fact that this game has severe long term consequences for your in-game actions.  I have yet to experience that in any other game to this degree.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Bullet_Catcher

[RomanZ (DayZ) 24]

As far as blood types, you're usually pretty well off if you can carry an O+, A-, and B- with you.  Those blood bags are fairly common and you'll only get hosed if you run into a guy with O-.  By the way, I'm not sure why you sai medical items are much less common...

 

What I meant is the following: Before the blood types were introduced, there used to be how many blood bags in medical boxes? 6? 8? Can't remember exactly, but it was a few. All of them were compatible with everyone. (That's unrealistic, but that's a different story.) Nothing else was needed. Basically it meant that a few players could typically equip with blood bags from a single medbox. Now, there are four transfusion kits (a single self-transfusion, which is now also possible, takes two of them away!) and one blood bag of four types each, in one of two medbox types.

 

I'm completely with you on the liking of long-term consequences. What I'm trying to say is that it's much too hard to gain humanity now. To put it bluntly, the game currently tells you that you are acting very humanly only if you keep patching up clan mates (except for like ten players who are lucky enough to be able to spend all day playing DayZ), of which the vast majority of players don't have/want any.

 

So, here's an idea that just came to my mind from our discussion here. Why not store the player ids of the last, say, 5 or 8 players you have administered medical help to, and let humanity increase only if the receiver is not among them. This way, you cannot just keep transfusing your team mates over and over again to farm humanity. Helping out different strangers is then what matters. At the same time, since that would make humanity gain even more difficult, add more ways to gain small amounts of humanity, like the aggroed zed kills mentioned earlier, increase the humanity gain per medical help, increase the number of available blood bags/transfusion kits etc.

 

I understand that there are concerns about farming humanity by killing zeds, but I'm convinced that this problem is solved if the humanity increases only if the zed is aggroed at somebody else (perhaps somebody else than a bandit to again diminish the clan farming problem). You wanted to make zombies a threat again, right? Then provide incentives for players to engage with them! Making them stronger will just lead to everyone trying to avoid them even more. Imagine just +1 humanity for each. You'll usually need to kill more than a thousand of them to make up for a, possibly accidental, survivor kill. During all that work, you'll have to resist killing another survivor. I'm convinved that almost all bandits won't do that.

[Oddy-B 5]

So, is humanity the only aspect of 1.8.3? all i read in this thread is the same old thing about what defines a good person and a bad person, and it has kinda hyjacked the thread. The humanity system is flawed because it is based on a civilised concept in a world that has lost the the civilised structure. the discussion will contiue for ever without a balanced conclusion, because only those who find it difficult to be a "hero" seem to be discussing it... Play the game, help poeple, kill people, choose your own path. Why do you need to wear a badge? To me the endgame is surviving as long as i posibley can between deaths, the rest is just filling time.

 

What about the other features that have acutally been impletmented in the update, (apart from the known problems)?

 

what about the building system? the metal fences, the wooden fences, and all the stuff laid out in the update thread?

 

I dont see any conversations about these aspects.

 

Sorry, but getting fed up of reading about a small aspect of the mod and one sided views.

[Skydog (DayZ) 1]

I understand that there are concerns about farming humanity by killing zeds, but I'm convinced that this problem is solved if the humanity increases only if the zed is aggroed at somebody else (perhaps somebody else than a bandit to again diminish the clan farming problem). You wanted to make zombies a threat again, right? Then provide incentives for players to engage with them! Making them stronger will just lead to everyone trying to avoid them even more. Imagine just +1 humanity for each. You'll usually need to kill more than a thousand of them to make up for a, possibly accidental, survivor kill. During all that work, you'll have to resist killing another survivor. I'm convinved that almost all bandits won't do that.

 

I think this is a great idea. Make zombies as strong as they used to be (in 1.8.1), at least the viral ones, and reward players for helping other survivors with zombie problems. Maybe +1 humanity for killing an ordinary zed aggroing on somebody and +2 for a viral one. Farming humanity like this to get a survivor skin back or a hero skin, for those bandits with really low humanity, would take a really long time and thus be really boring and rare. But for someone who enjoys playing a hero style, it would be a really good way to actually play heroic, defend other survivors and gain humanity from that (as killing bandits doesn't really give you humanity boosts), either to get a hero skin or to keep a survivor skin which you can easily lose simply by defending yourself. And most people now use only hatchets to kill zombies, guns are there only to kill people basically, and with this system there would be a reason to snipe zombies, use guns to be humane, not just to kill a man.

 

And what if you could still gain humanity for defending bandits from zombies? Heroes could then have dilemmas whether it's more useful to defend the bandit (and gain some humanity and maybe team up in the end, change his ways, who knows?) or kill him and gain nothing but temporary safety.

[BC_Hawke 276]

So, is humanity the only aspect of 1.8.3? all i read in this thread is the same old thing about what defines a good person and a bad person, and it has kinda hyjacked the thread. The humanity system is flawed because it is based on a civilised concept in a world that has lost the the civilised structure. the discussion will contiue for ever without a balanced conclusion, because only those who find it difficult to be a "hero" seem to be discussing it... Play the game, help poeple, kill people, choose your own path. Why do you need to wear a badge? To me the endgame is surviving as long as i posibley can between deaths, the rest is just filling time.

 

What about the other features that have acutally been impletmented in the update, (apart from the known problems)?

 

what about the building system? the metal fences, the wooden fences, and all the stuff laid out in the update thread?

 

I dont see any conversations about these aspects.

 

Sorry, but getting fed up of reading about a small aspect of the mod and one sided views.

Then why don't you start a discussion rather than getting fed up about reading about people being...fed up?  That would be much more constructive than pointing out the fact that you don't like reading about humanity, right?  Sounds to me like you just wanted to complain.  Humanity is a hot button topic so it is often talked about.  Most of the bugs have been discussed already and people are enjoying/exploring other features in-game.  Besides being a hot button topic, the blood bagging bug has made humanity probably the biggest issue in 1.8.3, so it's no wonder that it's being discussed a lot in this thread.  Your own personal end-game may be survival, but MANY players use and rely upon the humanity system in the way that they play.  It only makes sense for it to be heavily discussed if it has been brought to a grinding halt due to the fact that you can't give blood transfusions currently.

[Oddy-B 5]

No I do not "just want to complian" as you put it. The humanity system has been done to death. The devs have said in other posts they will be looking at it.

The humanity Topic has been going on in every update, not just 1.8.3. and if you read my post correctly I have asked what people's thoughts on the building system and other aspects of the update.

So in your bitching at me for not changing the subject or starting a conversation is pure ignorence on your part Mr.. (yes i can insult people also).

[PhilB 230]

I like the suggestion of +1 humanity for each zed kill. The notion that true bandits will exploit this or farm humanity is silly. If you're a "hero" please go spend a few hours ingame with a bandit or bandit clan and you will see first hand how interested these players are in killing zeds i.e. none at all! I only like this idea because it would add a small reward for my already ongoing goal which is highest zed kill count possible per life.

 

Once again I'd like to suggest a slight expansion to the skin tiers as I think this would also help the situation.

 

For instance--I have 350 hours played on a particular server, I play mostly alone and I've been able to keep humanity at  negative 5-7K even while BB is currently broken (this has required me to eat a ton of shit from survs). On the other hand I know a player on same server who has 1/3 my hours played and is appx -250,000 humanity. So 1) he deserves some "uber bandit" skin to reward him for his exploits and 2) I don't deserve to classed the same as him or be treated like him cuz I am truly the nicest person on this particular server.

 

Ironically any neg humanity I incur is from those times I forget how completely pointless it is to go into a populated area to help survs. They simply kos you (and each other). One can either die over and over recollecting med supplies each time OR defend yourself in the hope of staying alive so that maybe the next guy might be willing to be helped and thus one walks away from a "Cherno hero" run with -10,000 to -20,000 humanity racked up. The fact that players' intentions have completely opposite results is a way in which I'd describe humanity system as "broken".

 

To further this, the particular skin in no way provides any predictive ability whether another player might kill you or not. In fact, my anecdotal evidence suggests otherwise. I now feel far more safe interacting with bandit skin players versus survs. The reason is because the two skins only tell how long a player has dedicated to that particular server, not how dangerous they are. More experienced players are more willing to have deeper interactions with you and survivors have become synonymous with noob/casual which is someone who is simply logging on to get some cheap thrills/kills. (I will start keeping actual statistics on this as I know this idea will be viewed with suspicion. Trust me though, survs are far more kos'y than bandits.)

 

Compounding the issue as well are those few survs who aren't noobs but use the bandit skin as their justifiable exception to kos. Which would be fine if the system was equitable in any sort of way but it's not.

 

My issue with it in a nutshell      Survivor=highly dangerous, stay away!    Bandit=not sure, potential new ally     Hero skin=never seen one

Edited December 18, 2014 by PhilB

[jimlad (DayZ) 1]

remove the ability to gain humanity from administering medical help to bandits

 

That's the solution right there. Why reward helping assholes who run around shooting others?

 

This isn't about human morality, it's a game. And the humanity system is and should be a pay-back system for aggressive behaviour. Be an asshole if you want, but people will deal with you accordingly. I think a very big reward humanity reward should be given for killing bandits: this would alleviate the -100000 humanity scenario: bandits can kill each other to get back to normal humanity. You'd have to add a diminishing returns clause for shooting the same person again and again [as RomanZ outlines above for the medical system] to avoid farming.

 

 

On an unrelated note, I must commend the devs on the updated loot tables. In 1.8.2 I could barely find any drinkable items, now in 1.8.3 frequently find cans soda. Ironically, 1.8.2 forced me to learn the whereabouts of the wells, so I no longer need canned drinks.

[PhilB 230]

Building system-Really cool, takes a ton of material and work to get anything built which I like. Downside is you can't yet truly build workable defenses because fences/barricades won't let you build/snap to existing structures on the map. Building a free standing structure is a little impractical if you're a lone wolfer; it would be really helpful if I could seamlessly build additional fortifications next to existing buildings. The best I can do currently is place bear traps/trip wires at these unnatural gaps between fence and in game buidling in an attempt to discourage a player. Except I've also learned recently that one can survive fairly easily after tripping a grenade trip wire.

[Oddy-B 5]

Problem is with building on to existing structures in my view, is that building are a natural loot magnet, so I wouldn’t build in such a way (personally).

 

The lone wolf building is not impossible it just requires a little persistence and time. Lots of nails, and wood (much harder with the trees now, I think this a recognised issue), the spawning of logs and planks do help to some degree.

 

 I do find the metal fences take a lot of resources to build, one example being 8 rusty sheet metal just to get it beyond the lvl 3, along with four corrugated steel, then only 2 sheet steel at lvl 5 to me gives an unbalanced natural feel to building. With more sheet steel spawning than rusty sheet steel, leaving me with 98 sheet steel and no rusty sheet steel to get the fence finished. Maybe a small adjustment needed in the loot spawn ratios or combine the two steels earlier on.

 

One thing, that is happening, is that trading with friendly players has sped up the base building process for me and others (for example nails for stannags, metal for vehicle parts etc....). Al the loot I collect I don’t need I pass on to someone who does, in return for the building supplies that I need.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Oddy-B

[veltro 3]

1. Fix the blood bag!

2. Humanity.
I red the entire discussion about humanity and I think that people are mixing up humanity with prestige. So my vote to getting humanity points for killing bandits is a big no no. Same counts for getting humanity points for killing zombies because zombies were actualy human beings and I would think you would get totally deranged after killing a shit load of them. So the system of humanity should not change, however it can be tweaked a bit imo. My thoughts is that new players should start with 1 humanity points. Becomeing a hero is based on humanity, however this is just a reflextion that you have done good in helping people. Not getting any humanity points for helping a bandit sounds good to me. Capping the negative points for bandits as well to lets say -20000 because I am fed up with people that are showing of how bad they are. To me it is pretty clear that the amount of negative humanity points creates incentive to kill survivors. At the same time I would think that if someone mananges to gain 25000 humanity points that is a hero for sure. Also I think that one should not get negative points for killing someone in a guilly, soldier or camo skin because that person choose to disguise his or her identity freely. For the rest I would say there should be just many more things (besides the main thing bloodbagging) to get humanity points from. Why should I not be able to get points if I feed someone a piece of chicken? What else can we think of that helps someone survive the apocalypse that could give someone points to humanity?

3. Regards to the update.
I think that your versioning system is broken. The last patch was not a patch but a complete change to the game so 1.9.0. A minor version update should be a patch or a fix. I would recommend that you focus on getting things fixed before getting things changed. A couple of examples are that the huey still flies even when the rotor is 100% damaged, the fact that you can carry two axes, the 'clean' water bottle that gets you infected, the waterbottle that can be filled at certain wells while not being able to drink from these wells, cars that have too many windows, fatigue system, gun sway after getting thirsty and the need of a painkiller afterwards, and so many things more...

4. Some minor things
Why is there such an extreme difference in animal spawns since the last patch from almost none to animals everywhere?
Where is the alice pack?
Where is the black limo car?

[Borges (DayZ) 40]

 

Why is there such an extreme difference in animal spawns since the last patch from almost none to animals everywhere?

 

Cause food/water is more scarce in 1.8.3 and promotes hunting.

[r4z0r49 4761]

1. Fix the blood bag!

2. Humanity.

I red the entire discussion about humanity and I think that people are mixing up humanity with prestige. So my vote to getting humanity points for killing bandits is a big no no. Same counts for getting humanity points for killing zombies because zombies were actualy human beings and I would think you would get totally deranged after killing a shit load of them. So the system of humanity should not change, however it can be tweaked a bit imo. My thoughts is that new players should start with 1 humanity points. Becomeing a hero is based on humanity, however this is just a reflextion that you have done good in helping people. Not getting any humanity points for helping a bandit sounds good to me. Capping the negative points for bandits as well to lets say -20000 because I am fed up with people that are showing of how bad they are. To me it is pretty clear that the amount of negative humanity points creates incentive to kill survivors. At the same time I would think that if someone mananges to gain 25000 humanity points that is a hero for sure. Also I think that one should not get negative points for killing someone in a guilly, soldier or camo skin because that person choose to disguise his or her identity freely. For the rest I would say there should be just many more things (besides the main thing bloodbagging) to get humanity points from. Why should I not be able to get points if I feed someone a piece of chicken? What else can we think of that helps someone survive the apocalypse that could give someone points to humanity?

3. Regards to the update.

I think that your versioning system is broken. The last patch was not a patch but a complete change to the game so 1.9.0. A minor version update should be a patch or a fix. I would recommend that you focus on getting things fixed before getting things changed. A couple of examples are that the huey still flies even when the rotor is 100% damaged, the fact that you can carry two axes, the 'clean' water bottle that gets you infected, the waterbottle that can be filled at certain wells while not being able to drink from these wells, cars that have too many windows, fatigue system, gun sway after getting thirsty and the need of a painkiller afterwards, and so many things more...

4. Some minor things

Why is there such an extreme difference in animal spawns since the last patch from almost none to animals everywhere?

Where is the alice pack?

Where is the black limo car?

 

1, Blood bagging has already been looked at but its untested i guess as someone has a bit of time to gather a few ppl to test and fix everything (development branch is on github)

2, Humanity is a big change again something many of us dont have much time to do these dayz. It's been looked at many times and we have had many new ideas but no one can seem to agree on the best action for it (development branch is on github).

3, Versions are not based on major,minor that was scrapped some time ago we just raise it up each patch. This only changes on a hotfix which we rarely do due to the way we have to get permission to release.

 

I guess communication needs working on. If you feel you can help everything is on github plz do but for many of us now time is something we always fight.

 

Alice pack as far as i know still exists unless its been removed for some reason and not communicated soon as i find the backpack class name ill have a look(as mentioned in this topic and on github issues). Vehicle spawns are down to server owners we stopped doing much on them when the hive went down.

 

Anytime you feel you can help your free to do so the github account has been in the same place for 2 years so have the testing systems.