DayZ is a paradox game - Random thoughts

[cuddly_rabbit 102]

After having played the SA for quite a while, I couldn't stop realizing how paradox this game is.

 

Disclaimer: Of course I know it is an Alpha, and I know that many of the issues I will point at are already on the "to fix" list.
However, thinking about it made it very obvious how weird this game works and what is most fascinating (for me at least) is that it is actually fun.

 

Anyway, here it comes:

It is the only multiplayer game I know, in which many people avoid any contact with other players and even when coming into contact, spend a lot of effort on not actually making (visual, physical, communication) contact. An avoided contact is a successful interaction for many.

It's the only multiplayer game I know, in which relevant numbers of people prefer empty servers to populated ones. The less players, the better. I do not know a single game that has that.  

 

DayZ spreads few players on such a big map that meeting each other outside of the few hot zones is next to impossible. And: more empty space/villages are being added. Even with 100 players there would not be a chance to fill that map, and I doubt 100 players will happen once zombies work.

 

DayZ has incredible (however unused) potential for intense roleplay (invented characters in the world talking to each other instead of players playing a game), but it is the game where I have yet to meet a roleplayer. 

 

It has a great system of direct ingame communication (doesn't need configuration, works just like that), yet conversation almost never takes place. Most words I hear are spoken to corpses, not to living characters. The general consens seems to be "if it is not on my Teamspeak channel, it is an enemy => kill it". And killing is best done silently. The alternative is: avoid it, and that's also silent.

 

It is a Zombie game in which Zombies do not have any noteworthy impact, nor pose a real danger, nor add horror or atmosphere. I know, it's known. Still, funny somehow.

 

It is a Zombie apocalypse in which the outward threat does not make the survivors band together to survive. The "unifying threat" is missing, so there is no necessity for players to behave social, as they are not rewarded for the additional risk they take when interacting with other players.

 

The value of an ingame life would be high after a virus wiped out most of the people. Think about the island dilemma with rebuilding population when you have limited females. In DayZ a life has the same value as in ever simple pvp shooter: none. Kill at leisure, npnp, you respawn anyway. 

 

This game does hardly feature "survivors". I would describe those as normal people dropped into extraordinarily bad situations. It mainly features psychopaths and sociopaths. There have to be other, yet undiscovered viruses. Likely breeding from boredom + lulziness + immaturity.

 

The game has even more viruses than the Z-virus. They are player created variations:

 

> the long range psychopath virus: he has to kill everything that moves before it gets into interaction range. It doesn't help his survival, he reduces the healthy population, wastes resources, attracts zombies and dies pitifully after a split-second of terror to someone rustling behind him.
> the torture/abuse psychopath virus: it seems to spread once handcuffs are found and extends to slowly killing people by poison "for fun". It totally increases your own survivability and is generally a reasonable way to act in a post-apocalyptic situation. It however is "funny" <irony>

> the sociopath's "fear" virus: "I only trust my Teamspeak mates! The rest is KOS". or: "Sorry, I trust no one". Shooting everything is much safer than talking.

 

No wonder that the few survivors that are really out there have a hard time when the Z-virus is only one of 4 and the most harmless at that. No wonder these viruses spread fast, as every contact teaches the player that taking the risk of interacting for real is punished severely by the permadeath feature. Frustration is the key to infection with the player-created viruses.

 

It is a game that should not be deathmatch by its setting, but also does not reward teamplay/cooperation for real. The only real teamplay that is "rewarded" by ingame mechanism is "save my body, I will be back in 15 min!" corpse overwatch. It's also the worst oorp meta aspect present and the only sort of teamplay that does not deserve to be encouraged.

 

DayZ has an amazingly bad pvp system compared to many shooters, which is no problem because it is not even trying to be a perfect shooter per se. However its main focus at the moment is deathmatching each other, especially in "endgame", or aimless, indiscriminate killing of everything you see "because you can".

 

At the moment it is a game in which none of the typical zombie-genre effects work (bad odds, forced teamplay of incompatible characters, we [=survivors] vs. them [=zombies] feeling, horror, etc), but in which all danger comes from players, many of them bored lolwuts that add nothing to the immersion and the feeling of the world.

 

So, again: I know many of the issues are being addressed already.

And I know it is an Alpha.

 

This is also not a rant, as I am neither angry nor disappointed. I am going ingame now and will have a great time.
But it really struck me as kind of a really weird, screwed up dysfunctional game that actually works in a really surprisingly strange way and is good fun. :)

Anyway, see you ingame.

Andy

 

 

 

[Irish. 4886]

Holy hell batman that is one long read.. 

 

Most of this is because the game is still new to a lot of players and still under development. 

 

If you spent time playing the mods, you would have experienced many of the things you mentioned in contrast.

[mugur 123]

Still, one of the best posts i've read here in a long time :)

[Element47 2480]

excellent write-up. OP please post a few random replies in this thread so i can give you more beans.

[byrgesen 1340]

Thats a nice read and you point out alot of the strange stuff, that is DayZ.

I agree with you, on all your points basicly, but i do think some of them will change, during the development of the game :)

 

Especially when we get working zombies, hunting, cooking, vehicles and barricading in the game.

Could potentially be a game changer for many people, but we can only speculate on the impact it will have on the "Average JoeZ" at this point.

 

I think people are really scared of stepping out of they're comfort zone, they are used to play games where its full on coop or clusterfuck deathmatch, which is not a bad thing, but with the amount of fredom we get in DayZ, i think the average player will rather "play it safe" then trying to do something they wont normally do, which then leads to the odities you point out in your post :)

 

Have some beans hehe.  :beans:  :beans:  :beans:

 

*I dont normally give 3 cans, but your post is special!

[Irish. 4886]

Ive found that a lot of players hesitation to interact, whether that be shooting or talking, is often more of a lack of experience issue than anything else.

 

Not many feel confident about shooting. Some dont even know which button you press to talk or type in game. People need a lot of time to learn DayZ's massive scale of controls, tools, and environment. In the mods, again, people had that time and evolved into all sorts of great things. There used to be a guy dubbed the Priest of Elektro and all he ever did was carry a bible and hand out food and advice to people in Elektro. People got into massive clan battles over vast expanses of land. RP was and still is a very real thing in the mods. 

 

The SA just needs more time to get there, and so does its player base. 

[enforcer1975 1111]

It's a game...many people claim to "roleplay" but don't. Doesn't matter if you forced them into a role or give them complete freedom "keyword sandbox" once you give them a weapon all that brainmass stops working and even a scientist mutates into rambo.

[Goose Springsteen 9]

Yes this was a totally fantastic post which deserves all the beans that can be massed upon it!

[Mr Sinister 167]

The game has even more viruses than the Z-virus. They are player created variations:

> the long range psychopath virus:

> the torture/abuse psychopath virus:

> the sociopath's "fear" virus:

 

My favorite bit on that post. :D certainly made me grin ear to ear. Bravo. 

[over9000nukez 199]

i hear a certain word being screamed right now, heres a hint, starts with A and ends with lpha

[amiasfree 262]

I agree a bit, but honestly no amount of zeds being a threat will force people to band together. If anything, people who bring friends from outside the game will team up and still play deathmatchZ against everyone else. Same if they ever add content that needs groups to achieve. This is probably the loneliest and single-player-ey 'mmo' I've ever played, and nothing that can be added within the realm of reason will change that, sadly.

[Dagwood 680]

OP, how do you predict that a more dangerous environment will change player behavior?

[Grimey Rick 3417]

At the end of the day, zombies will never be a threat. Ever. We're not going to have State of Decay zombies in this game. We're going to be stuck with zombies that might stop running through walls, might hit a little harder, might run a little faster. Look at Breaking Point. It's on an updated version of RV and it still can't properly handle swarms of zombies. They teleport and glitch all over the place. The only way "realistic" zombies can ever be a threat in any video game is by their numbers. We're not going to have Screamers or Juggernauts, so individually, they'll never be threatening.

 

If this zombie survival game was actually about surviving zombies and each player started with a particular skill they could apply to a community then we wouldn't be having these discussions. There wouldn't be so many rant threads about other players because we'd actually have a purpose and a common enemy. You'd still have your token assholes, but they'd be few and far between. This game has no consequences and no particular direction. The sandbox label only holds for so long.

 

Who gives a damn about barricading areas and building bases when you're just building them to defend against other players?

Edited May 1, 2014 by Grimey Rick

[gannon46 788]

I think you said it all sir.hit the nail on the head etc. not much more to say than I agree and the sad part is it'll never change why they call it MMO beats the hell out of me. they should just take zeds out of the game and make it a prison break simulator. you are a death row immate who has been put on an island now kill all the other inmates and survive. at least it makes sense hell players play like they are john wayne gacy reincarnated might as well fit the role eh. but hell even these other zed games are the same we will never see RP or co-op play on any zed game gamers can't go without killing something for longer than 2 seconds like the copy should come with valium 500mg doses. I was watching a dev stream of a very much talked about zed game(won't mention the title because its been talked about enough)and even the devs were doing the same crap oh a survivor shoot on site oh I've got a jeep thertes a survivor lets run him over oh I got a torch theres a survivor lets set him on fire.the problem with this game and the others are the humans who play they have no imagination hence no immersion hence all they can do is kill stuff. these folks probably go outside and shoot trees and bushes because they are living things and technically they are killing something ugh humans you know I hate'em.

[pilgrim* 3514]

dysfunctional

 

yep- OK cool, that sounds good to me. ++  I'm for it.

[(DD)DutchB4k 9]

Nice topic post.

I think some of these things will be gone when the game is done.

Now it takes long to get geard running from town to town.

Find a cable firearm to roam some military loot spots for gear.

 

But if let's say a new update comes with cars if 1 of your budddy's dies you can just pick him up from the beach and give his gear from the car.

But now in standalone you can't.

This makes you think if a firefight is worth the risk loosing your grear and thas why many ppl prefer a low pop server.

Thads also why i love the standalone, takes a long time to get good gear so you prob wana keep it so you end up trying to take a low risk tactic.

[Mr Sinister 167]

Nice topic post.

I think some of these things will be gone when the game is done.

Now it takes long to get geard running from town to town.

Find a cable firearm to roam some military loot spots for gear.

 

But if let's say a new update comes with cars if 1 of your budddy's dies you can just pick him up from the beach and give his gear from the car.

But now in standalone you can't.

This makes you think if a firefight is worth the risk loosing your grear and thas why many ppl prefer a low pop server.

Thads also why i love the standalone, takes a long time to get good gear so you prob wana keep it so you end up trying to take a low risk tactic.

Me and my lass ended up taking the most defensive tactic of all tactics. We got fully geared and haven't played since. :D. 

[Lady Kyrah 1109]

Nice topic post.

I think some of these things will be gone when the game is done.

Now it takes long to get geard running from town to town.

Find a cable firearm to roam some military loot spots for gear.

 

But if let's say a new update comes with cars if 1 of your budddy's dies you can just pick him up from the beach and give his gear from the car.

But now in standalone you can't.

This makes you think if a firefight is worth the risk loosing your grear and thas why many ppl prefer a low pop server.

Thads also why i love the standalone, takes a long time to get good gear so you prob wana keep it so you end up trying to take a low risk tactic.

I sincerly don't think the game will evolve to a point where you can just "go pickup your buddies" and basically make distances irrelevant.

[cuddly_rabbit 102]

OP, how do you predict that a more dangerous environment will change player behavior?

I don't know.

I hope that it will force players to cooperate.

If - let's say - a group of survivors is locked down in a town center by... 100 Zombies, they need help.

And I think there would be few that are trapped that go: "Muahahaha! Must pvp the other players!!!"

Nor would (hopefully) the team outside go "Muahaha! Snipe the players on the roof!".

I want to believe in players that they would do, what people in reality would do. Either run away, and not get involved, or follow the urge to help.

A game, in which you would feel the necessity to help, but had the choice on whether it is worth the risk... that would be cool.

So, I hope that a real threat from "outside" would make players play together more intuitively.

However, I fear that by this  time, the climate might already be too poisoned by cheap playing styles like "Kill them all" that it would be a difficult way towards a better gaming experience that is closer to (what I think could be) reality.

[xalienax 621]

I sincerly don't think the game will evolve to a point where you can just "go pickup your buddies" and basically make distances irrelevant.

When cars get in and presistent storage clan = death irrelevant. thats who it should be tho, imho. your reawrd for working together is that your mates can gome get you and your insta re-geard at base. its called teamwork.

[cuddly_rabbit 102]

[...] This is probably the loneliest and single-player-ey 'mmo' I've ever played, and nothing that can be added within the realm of reason will change that, sadly.

Same for me, as avoiding interaction actually makes you live longer.

However, I would not say that it cannot change.

Imagine you have that zombie hordes of... like...4 groups of 200 Z. They wander around from town to town, chasing players in front of them, forcing them to react, move, stay moving, etc... I think that players would meet more, because everybody would know where the action at the moment is. At least I'd move there and shoot myself a few ZOmbies and try to help out those that are trapped, etc. 

 

[napalmdog 71]

Good thoughts and observations. I was making mental note last night on the posts and what people are/were expecting, what we think we do and how we act in-game. One fact is that as immersive as it is, it is still a game.

 

How do you put an incredible overwhelming importance to a player's life? Heck, do even we want that?

 

Currently I see a majority of people playing it as the most long-running, complex and political deathmatch ever conceived. It is missing an element that might come magically one day to release the paradigm. I have thought(and still think) it is the development of zombies to be a threat, but it could be something else.

 

One thing's for sure though; I believe it has shown people do not know what they truly want.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVGINIsLnqU

[cuddly_rabbit 102]

[...]The only way "realistic" zombies can ever be a threat in any video game is by their numbers.

 

If this zombie survival game was actually about surviving zombies and each player started with a particular skill they could apply to a community then we wouldn't be having these discussions. There wouldn't be so many rant threads about other players because we'd actually have a purpose and a common enemy. You'd still have your token assholes, but they'd be few and far between. This game has no consequences and no particular direction. The sandbox label only holds for so long.

 

Who gives a damn about barricading areas and building bases when you're just building them to defend against other players?

I actually hope that the sheer number would make them dangerous.

You would run out of ammunition, would need to send people to get more, or recklessly try to break a "siege", etc.

I bet everybody here can imagine damn cool and tense scenes from Z movies.

 

Having special skills that coop is also nice. Never thought about that actually.

Rewarding teamwork by combining skill and thus increasing survivability + a common enemy would be good for this game.

You have my beans :D

[cuddly_rabbit 102]

Me and my lass ended up taking the most defensive tactic of all tactics. We got fully geared and haven't played since. :D. 

 Beans for you, Sir, because when I started and survived for a few days for the first time and got everything I wanted, I did not dare playing any more for fear of losing it all. :D 

One gets a little more relaxed after a while.

So... look at it as a process. Gearing, interacting, dying. Gearing, etc... circle of life. :D

[Lady Kyrah 1109]

When cars get in and presistent storage clan = death irrelevant. thats who it should be tho, imho. your reawrd for working together is that your mates can gome get you and your insta re-geard at base. its called teamwork.

It's called meta :)