October Round-up: #DayZDaily

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

Where are people getting this unstable shizz from? Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Rocket just say they wanted to make sure it was stable enough for large scale testing (testing which according to Hicks was occurring today/tomorrow)? Why are people deciding it's already unstable/it's the end of the world before the testing has even occurred? :huh:

Or have I missed something?

I think people were watching the version numbers change a lot yesterday and interpreting that as:  Dean is rubbish and has broken everything, Christmas is cancelled.

 

There's a classic thread over on Reddit about it with some truly mental speculation.  It makes this thread look vaguely sensible.

[mzltv 2281]

There's a classic thread over on Reddit about it with some truly mental speculation.  It makes this thread look vaguely sensible.

Oh, allow me good sir!

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/dayz/comments/1pepbf/constant_dayz_sa_updating_and_many_players_on_the/

http://www.reddit.com/r/dayz/comments/1pe5f6/whos_excited/

 

(and the rest of Reddit in general...)

[AnarchyBrownies 1383]

Just a question but couldn't it realistically be considered a beta release at this point? It sounds like a hell of a lot will be in the game because the network bubble delay gave more time to implement lots of other features that obviously couldn't have been in the game back in June/July.

 

Someone said something to me while I was playing the DayZ mod once and it got into my head. He said he hated these early alpha/beta releases because it just gave developers an excuse to fuck up and not be held accountable. Obviously the lower on the scale you start, the more you are allowed to fuck up. Alpha releases can be really screwed up, betas can be quite screwed up but should be playable, and full releases should have only minor unforeseeable glitches (often insignificant).

 

To still call it an alpha release sounds like a dishonest developer practice. Of course, I say this having no clue how much will actually be in the game. But I just get the impression it's a lot now. Do we do gaming/ourselves a disservice by encouraging these early releases and allowing developers to seemingly arbitrarily define alpha/beta/full.

 

Of course the benefits of this model shouldn't be ignored as far as development is concerned. With more people having access to early versions you can find and fix problems much quicker. I just wonder if there's a fine line between consumers becoming test subjects and consumers being ripped off for projects that aren't finished or aren't well done and will never be well done. I have faith in the DayZ team but this issue would apply to anyone releasing a game. You can release a piece of shit, call it an alpha, get people to pay for it, and the game would never have to amount to much because the money has already poured in.

 

So is it fair to call this an alpha release? Why should an alpha be so stable and playable as Dean wants it to be? It's a mixed message. "We don't want to release it until it's stable and playable with lots of people, but if it's fucked up it's just because it's alpha." If it's an alpha, release it glitchy as hell and minimally tested. I want to emphasize that I'm not being entirely critical because I think the game is going to turn out great and am very optimistic about it. The model itself just worries me and 1% of me gets worried when the DayZ team can't commit to calling it more than an alpha when it does actually appear to be more than that.

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

 

Stuff

 

DayZ doesn't really fit into the usual pigeon holes of gaming in development terms.

 

That's why originally Dean wanted to call it a foundation build.  Sadly WarZ stole that term less than a week later for their Steam release and thus it was tainted.

 

They can call it what they like but I still deem the initial release to be a foundation build.  Once they have that up and running adding content should be the easy bit (I say that knowing nothing about game development of course).

Edited October 29, 2013 by Fraggle

[Dr. Goner 661]

"Vets" I don't consider a DayZ player a so called.. Veteran in any sort of way.

 

I'm not sure I follow you. Please elaborate. I played Pong. Does that make me a "vet"?

 

I've never beat someone with a keyboard after losing to them during competition. 

[ZlobaRUS54 441]

I wish DayZ would be open  source / Free software. Open development. Open testing.

[AnarchyBrownies 1383]

DayZ doesn't really fit into the usual pigeon holes of gaming in development terms.

 

That's why originally Dean wanted to call it a foundation build.  Sadly WarZ stole that term less than a week later for their Steam release and thus it was tainted.

 

They can call it what they like but I still deem the initial release as a foundation build.  Once they have that up and running adding content should be the easy bit.

 

My point is only that whatever you call it, these early releases are becoming more popular and at what point is it a cop out of responsibility? I'm assuming a foundation build is referring to the foundational code that gives you a solid framework that would, theoretically and as you said, make adding content a smooth(er) process. But having that stable foundation + lots of features already added sounds a lot like a beta to me.

[HumanBeing25 299]

I wish DayZ would be open  source / Free software. Open development. Open testing.

The SA game? Good luck when people find exploits then easily.

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

My point is only that whatever you call it, these early releases are becoming more popular and at what point is it a cop out of responsibility? I'm assuming a foundation build is referring to the foundational code that gives you a solid framework that would, theoretically and as you said, make adding content a smooth(er) process. But having that stable foundation + lots of features already added sounds a lot like a beta to me.

Agreed but really that's my point.  It's not following the usual development path.

 

The whole "selling an alpha" debate is something I've never been too sure about as a gamer.  How well that works in practice and whether it can be seen as a cop-out seems to be dependent on how well the devs handle things during that process.  A good example is Don't Starve but there's way more bad examples.

 

I guess how long they decide to call it an alpha for depends on how well the initial alpha testing goes with large numbers of players.

 

Why are you trying to force an interesting debate into this thread when we could be arguing about how Deans fucked up the SA based on no information?

Edited October 29, 2013 by Fraggle

[HumanBeing25 299]

Hey, can anyone please answer this question. Rocket said he would aim to get the official DayZ servers on a Linux platform (I believe he said), but the current UK server they got up and running is running on the Windows platform.

Check the bottom of the page: http://www.game-monitor.com/dayz_GameServer/37.220.18.218:27016/DayZ_SVN_Server_developers_only-.html

 

so what's up with that??

[SJKSJK 225]

Me being a non-programmer and having zero experience with anything related to game development, can't see what the hold up is with release.

[St. Jimmy 1631]

Hey, can anyone please answer this question. Rocket said he would aim to get the official DayZ servers on a Linux platform (I believe he said), but the current UK server they got up and running is running on the Windows platform.

Check the bottom of the page: http://www.game-monitor.com/dayz_GameServer/37.220.18.218:27016/DayZ_SVN_Server_developers_only-.html

 

so what's up with that??

Like always they first make it for Windows and add Linux afterwards. Arma 3 also doesn't have Linux yet.

Edited October 29, 2013 by St. Jimmy

[pxxl 259]

Me being a non-programmer and having zero experience with anything related to game development, can't see what the hold up is with release.

Trail and Error, change one thing here -> effects something there. Most of the time it's figuring out why something isn't working and then you find out it was something simple.

Also a reason why they can't give a release date. Today it might be look like it will be done tommorow. Then the next day it might look like it will take a week.

[CapricornOne (DayZ) 379]

Me being a non-programmer and having zero experience with anything related to game development, can't see what the hold up is with release.

:lol:

What a succinct statement.

[AnarchyBrownies 1383]

Why are you trying to force an interesting debate into this thread when we could be arguing about how Deans fucked up the SA based on no information?

 

:lol: That got me laughing. Really my point is based on nothing because I don't know what will be in the alpha release. Like I said it was something someone said to me one time and it got in my head.

 

But for the sake of keeping the theme alive, here's something we're all just going to have to accept: The Standalone won't be released. Ever. It's a project Dean can't handle. He didn't even know what Chernarus map he was showing in his network bubble picture. He has never had the competence to take on a project with this much popularity and expectation, as you can tell by how he delayed the standalone last December (LOL) and hasn't been able to release anything since. He hides whenever he can't handle something, like last winter and this month.

 

He [something about PR skills and broken promises and need for professional PR company]

 

I'm bored of DayZ now anyways. I've moved on, as has everyone else. The hype is gone and no one will play it when it's released. Too late, Dean, your window has closed. I will check back here and complain regularly to prove I've moved on. #honeybadger

 

Broken promises.

Edited October 29, 2013 by AnarchyBrownies

[HumanBeing25 299]

Trail and Error, change one thing here -> effects something there. Most of the time it's figuring out why something isn't working and then you find out it was something simple.

Also a reason why they can't give a release date. Today it might be look like it will be done tommorow. Then the next day it might look like it will take a week.

LOL, trial and error for professional programmers? Don't think so!

They debug the client constantly to find out the source of the problem, and then come up with ways to fix the problem (they usually have drawing boards for this in offices--believe it or not), and when all have agreed on a suitable solution, they attack the problem. Sometimes the programmers also put their code through a review process so other programmers can test the code.

 

 

Like always they first make it for Windows and add Linux afterwards. Arma 3 also doesn't have Linux yet.

I hope the implementation of the Linux platform won't slow down the release.

[AnarchyBrownies 1383]

Me being a non-programmer and having zero experience with anything related to game development, can't see what the hold up is with release.

 

If that was meant to be sarcastic then really well played, sir. I Laughed. I just hope it wasn't a serious comment or else I'll feel bad.

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

:lol: That got me laughing. Really my point is based on nothing because I don't know what will be in the alpha release. Like I said it was something someone said to me one time and it got in my head.

 

But for the sake of keeping the theme alive, here's something we're all just going to have to accept: The Standalone won't be released. Ever. It's a project Dean can't handle. He didn't even know what Chernarus map he was showing in his network bubble picture. He has never had the competence to take on a project with this much popularity and expectation, as you can tell by how he delayed the standalone last September (LOL) and hasn't been able to release anything since. He hides whenever he can't handle something, like last winter and this month.

 

He [something about PR skills and broken promises and need for professional PR company]

 

I'm bored of DayZ now anyways. I've moved on, as has everyone else. The hype is gone and no one will play it when it's released. Too late, Dean, your window has closed. I will check back here and complain regularly to prove I've moved on. #honeybadger

 

Broken promises.

Couldn't agree more.

 

Regarding the whole alpha/beta thing I do expect the initial release to be a proper alpha test phase, so expect many tears to be shed.  

[ZlobaRUS54 441]

The SA game? Good luck when people find exploits then easily.

 

People trust billions of dollars doing e-commerce with Open Source Apache web server and Open Source Firefox web-client browser, Free Software != Insecure.  Signing the binaries allows to immediately differentiate between code coming from an official repository (with only few trusted people allowing to approve commits) and unofficial binaries.

[St. Jimmy 1631]

I hope the implementation of the Linux platform won't slow down the release.

I believe the priority is first release and Linux just comes at some point.

[pxxl 259]

find out the source of the problem, and then come up with ways to fix the problem (they usually have drawing boards for this in offices--believe it or not), and when all have agreed on a suitable solution, they attack the problem.

Trail and error

[HumanBeing25 299]

Trail and error

As long as it's not "trial and error" LOL ;)

 

 

I believe the priority is first release and Linux just comes at some point.

hoping

 

People trust billions of dollars doing e-commerce with Open Source Apache web server and Open Source Firefox web-client browser, Free Software != Insecure.  Signing the binaries allows to immediately differentiate between code coming from an official repository (with only few trusted people allowing to approve commits) and unofficial binaries.

The only reason these big projects benefit from being open source is because they have many thousands if not more of programmers who will freely look through the code and find vulnerabilities and either fix them themselves or report them to the publisher(s).

 

With SA, since it's owned by BI, only BI's own programmers will work on the project and who would want to spend their time trying to find vulnerabilities in a client just to report the vulnerabilities to the publisher?

Besides, the BI programmers are smart enough (hopefully) to know what is exploitable and what's not, and hence don't need to make it open source.

[SJKSJK 225]

:lol:

What a succinct statement.

^gets it

[AnarchyBrownies 1383]

 

Regarding the whole alpha/beta thing I do expect the initial release to be a proper alpha test phase, so expect many tears to be shed.  

 

I have tears waiting in abundance. Bring it on.

[HumanBeing25 299]

Curious, are the alpha testers allowed to go play on the official UK server while the server is empty and when Rocket/whoever is not in the office?

Edited October 29, 2013 by HumanBeing25