So what are you expecting if not KoS?

[bfisher 561]

I don't want to get into another rant/debate for/against KoS.  But I guess I'm just a little confused about what experience people who complain about KoS actually expect?

 

I've been playing off and on for about a year now.  My general expectation is that if you are a noob logging in for the first couple of times, you will run around aimlessly, catching agro, possibly starving or dying of thirst until you are either overrun by zombies or summarily killed by a sniper, bandit or just some guy who is annoyed by your presence.

 

As an experienced player, my expectation is that everyone I see will probably shoot at me on sight.  Why wouldn't they?  In a zombie apocalypse, anyone you meet is likely to be part of a bandit gang, local warlord clan, insane lunatic, punk ass jerk, or just some nervous survivors not willing to take a chance on another drifter.

 

I would expect that on the rare occasions where I meet another survivor and we don't kill each other on sight, our relationship will be an uneasy trust based on necessity, the status quo which can quickly change depending on circumstances.

 

 

So I guess I'm just wondering what people mean when they say "we should reduce KoS"?

[Mos1ey 6301]

In a real world apocalypse type scenario I think it's more likely that the majority of people would try to help each other instead of hunting each other.

 

Sure, there would be bandit gangs, but I don't think everyone would take that path, and even then I think the majority would favour robbing people over shooting them on sight.

[Diggydug (DayZ) 331]

In a zombie apocalypse, anyone you meet is likely to be part of a bandit gang, local warlord clan, insane lunatic, punk ass jerk, or just some nervous survivors not willing to take a chance on another drifter.

 

That's silly reasoning. If that were the case, civilization wouldn't be a thing because apparently humans love to just kill each other above all else.

_______

 

But I agree to an extent on what I think you're trying to say. What do you expect to happen?

 

1) It's a game

2) It's a game on the internet

3) It's a popular game

 

That's a combination for having a lot of players who are just jerks and are used to games where you're significantly more restrained with a goal of KILL KILL KILL.

 

So KoS is just going to happen in most forms of DayZ, especially with the circular reasoning of "He might kill me so I must kill him!" being so prevalent.

 

I don't know what people expect either, the best they can do is be friendly themselves, or at least not KoS, and try to encourage others to do the same with them.

[Aporis 422]

I'll add some for mZLY post. Bullets will be a rare commodity, Most people would waste them on infected rather than other people, so robbing would be way more common. As humans would be seen less of a threat than mindless running, flesh hungry humans that can kill you very easily, and best way ot deal with them is not to let them come close.

[HazZarD87 166]

If I get a chance to take out someone that's not in my group I will do so no matter how rare the ammo. Either to get their stuff, protect my own stuff, or just for the lolz

[mercules 1290]

Few days back my friend and I did not shoot not just 1 but 2 players on sight. Instead we talked to them, considered some trades but didn't need anything, and when some bandits hit the area in a helicopter my buddy and I tried to offer up some cover fire for them despite the fact that we will probably never see them again. We need some bandits in the game, but it sure would be nice if not everyone was a KoS bandit. 

[Dancing.Russian.Man 1631]

So what are you expecting if not KOS?

 

So I guess I'm just wondering what people mean when they say "we should reduce KoS"?

Personally, I just wish some people wouldn't try to flank you and blow you full of holes as soon as they heard "Friendly?" or "Yo! Dude!" They can run away and/or if they want, they can yell back at you to stay away or else they'll shoot(warning), or anything else that didn't involve one of you dying.

 

I also DON'T want for all bandits to disappear. If there wouldn't be any people that tried to kill you on sight, the game wouldn't be as interesting. The tension of seeing a stranger in the distance wouldn't be there anymore, so all we'd do is mindlessly hoard loot until we died of boredom and quit after shooting up a couple dozen zombies in the middle of Chernogorsk.

 

But the bandits shouldn't just be people that kill you and take your stuff, either. If you get snuck-up on, you kind of deserve to die. But wouldn't it be kind of awesome and/or more exciting if they held you up while going through your stuff and eventually leaving you there with little-to-no equipment? Or doing the classic dick-move of shooting you after they're done with you. (This would still give you a chance to escape or slightly sabotage their progress.

Edited September 19, 2013 by Dancing.Russian.Man

[wild_man 4442]

when you guys realise KoS is best thing for dayz??? :thumbsup:  :P

 

is make game atmosphere of fear :o

 

is give all player something to think on :huh:

 

is also make every player interact more nervous and maximum reward when you make friend not die like normal :D

[mercules 1290]

when you guys realise KoS is best thing for dayz??? :thumbsup:  :P

 

 

Water, taken in moderation, cannot hurt anybody.

 -Mark Twain 

 

What that quote doesn't say is as important as what it does say. Drinking water is good for you and definitely won't harm you. Being dropped in the middle of the ocean means you will probably drown. Floods can wipe out whole towns. 

The reason I mention this is that KoS in moderation is a good thing. When the whole game revolves around KoS and finding the next kill though, it falls apart. Not killing someone immediately is become so rare that it isn't even a default stance anymore. Instead we see someone and start to shoot. That makes every play just another obstacle to avoid instead of those occasional times where you end up friendly with someone. While KoS gives meaning to befriending others and a risk vrs reward aspect to it, too much KoS simply wipes it out and removes a major part of the game.  

[kevsta545 451]

I thought this thread was on the member KoS :(... Anywho in he real apocalypse I will Kill on sight.food and supplies will be dangerous, and I'm not sharing with anyone. As for dayz I play as hero for I have nothin to lose.

[broguenz 333]

If I get a chance to take out someone that's not in my group I will do so no matter how rare the ammo. Either to get their stuff, protect my own stuff, or just for the lolz

 

That's basically it. It happens, will always happen and yes it adds atmosfear.

Can't say I've ever expected it to be different. I have argued that its not the only way to enjoy the game.

Edited September 20, 2013 by RogueNZ

[dulix11 731]

when you guys realise KoS is best thing for dayz??? :thumbsup:  :P

 

 

You realise that that goes on my list of silliest things posted?

 

Being shot the second someone sees you isn't 'fun' or very good. Its annoying. 

 

KoS isn't a good thing for DayZ, if you want to do nothing but shoot people, go play regular ArmA.

[aussiebobby 82]

The game is death match now and the DayZ survival game died 6 months ago.Perhaps some should put down the game and wait for the SA where you face challenges of finding needle and thread to mend your ripped Tshirt or crafting shoe laces  or finding berry's to cure diarrhea.

Edited September 20, 2013 by AussieBobby

[bibbish 49]

In a real world apocalypse type scenario I think it's more likely that the majority of people would try to help each other instead of hunting each other.

 

Sure, there would be bandit gangs, but I don't think everyone would take that path, and even then I think the majority would favour robbing people over shooting them on sight.

It's likely (sadly) that these people would have something in common, they might be all part of the same race or minority, they might recognize each other from their former communities or they may simply already be friends. Since the mod currently has quite limited options to customize the 'look' of your character (which could communicate some sort of 'alignment' or merely be enough to help people recognize each other), people have to resort to socializing with people they already know.

 

People meet each other online or IRL and form clans and play together. Or one or two buddies play together too (which is how I play), everyone else is viewed with suspicion, with interactions with random survivors fleeting at best. I don't see a problem with it. 

 

I just think of instances of civil unrest throughout recent history... the London riots spring to mind. In an apocalypse I think humanity would take many steps back. I think when the mod was first created everyone played with a sense of childish, naive wonderment. Unfortunately there just isn't that much to gain by all being nice to each other, it would be pretty boring. Maybe the SA will renew everyone's attitude. Somehow I feel it needs more structure for people to team up with each other, I think we'd lose some 'realism' but I think it'd be worth it.

 

Sorry not sure what my point there was! 

[Mos1ey 6301]

It's likely (sadly) that these people would have something in common, they might be all part of the same race or minority, they might recognize each other from their former communities or they may simply already be friends. Since the mod currently has quite limited options to customize the 'look' of your character (which could communicate some sort of 'alignment' or merely be enough to help people recognize each other), people have to resort to socializing with people they already know.

 

People meet each other online or IRL and form clans and play together. Or one or two buddies play together too (which is how I play), everyone else is viewed with suspicion, with interactions with random survivors fleeting at best. I don't see a problem with it. 

 

I just think of instances of civil unrest throughout recent history... the London riots spring to mind. In an apocalypse I think humanity would take many steps back. I think when the mod was first created everyone played with a sense of childish, naive wonderment. Unfortunately there just isn't that much to gain by all being nice to each other, it would be pretty boring. Maybe the SA will renew everyone's attitude. Somehow I feel it needs more structure for people to team up with each other, I think we'd lose some 'realism' but I think it'd be worth it.

 

Sorry not sure what my point there was! 

 

I can see where you're coming from but I don't agree.

 

IMO the early days of the mod were a more authentic and enjoyable experience. There were bandits out there, but the majority were friendly and/or wanted to group up.

 

There was kind of an awkward uncertainty when you met someone... Will they shoot me or eventually betray me? There is no uncertainty any more because I'm certain that everyone will shoot me on sight, lol. DayZ was supposed to be a social experiment in a sense, not a deathmatch, and I feel that it's lost a lot of the tension that made it so great because of the KoS mentality of a lot of players.

[_Anubis_ (DayZ) 139]

You are mixing reality with a game and apply mental patterns for a persistent 24/7 reality to a part-time online game.

 

In a "real" apocalypse people willing to survive long term would gather in pseudo clan/groups/tribes, stockpile food and share tools and support- most of all they would build or find a safe place to sleep, a stash etc Some of those clan would be aggressive, some merely defensive and so on. Lone Wolves would have an hard time surviving unless very skilled and lucky.

 

In dayz the casual player wants to have 2 hours of fun chasing other players and avoiding Z so the first goal is either to find an automatic weapon or a sniper rifle or both.

 

As a Lone Wolf in dayz I can take some risks for 2-3 hours and then retreat in some corner and live there forever.

 

But not everybody roleplays in dayz.

 

_Anubis_

[Michaelvoodoo25 3120]

I expect escapism, pure and simple. A simulation on what and how I would do in a time of terror (i will be playing in the dark, with headphones on)

[toxicsludge 406]

In dayz the casual player wants to have 2 hours of fun chasing other players and avoiding Z so the first goal is either to find an automatic weapon or a sniper rifle or both.

But I don't think dayz is meant for a casual player. You want casual? Go play angry birds. You want 2 hours of chasing people? Play wasteland. There are other options if you want to deathmatch.

[_Anubis_ (DayZ) 139]

But I don't think dayz is meant for a casual player. You want casual? Go play angry birds. You want 2 hours of chasing people? Play wasteland. There are other options if you want to deathmatch.

 

Well that's only your opinion after all and since there are tons of servers filled with custom loadouts and extra vehicles, weapons and buildings the survival aspects of dayz appears negligible nowadays.

 

Not saying this is good, quite the opposite because I like dayz for its immersive nature, but sadly the majority of the players are casual ones.

 

_Anubis_

[Wayze 549]

In a real world apocalypse type scenario I think it's more likely that the majority of people would try to help each other instead of hunting each other.

 

Sure, there would be bandit gangs, but I don't think everyone would take that path, and even then I think the majority would favour robbing people over shooting them on sight.

Well, I don't agree with you. It depends on the scenario, if it was an extreme apocaylpse the people probably would act like in "The Road" (yes, best apocalypse movie ever made).

 

In the beginning, people would help each other, sure. But as soon as the food gets limited, people will kill each other. The problem is, once you realise that there are people out there who just kill you on sight, you will be very, very careful about what you are doing.

In such an scenario the bandit group has a way higher chance to survive. They go around and kill people. What are the others going to do? They are no bandits right? So why would they shot?

Well, they have no other choice. Even if someone seems friendly, he could betray you as soon as you go to sleep. You can never know, and this is not a game. You don't have a second chance, you just have one life. If you make one mistake you are dead. End of story.

I don't think that people would risk it to group up with random people. Either they have grouped up within the first view weeks and stay in that group. Or well, they are alone.

But, there is always hope for some people who are friendly and surely there are. But I don't think that these people would survive as long as the bandits. The bandits have the advantage to do everything they want. They are able to say "Hey! I am starving and I have no weapon!". The friendly people will help him, sure otherwise they wouldn't be friendly. They help him, take him into the group. And well, the day after they are all dead and the bandit, one guy, has everything he wanted. Even if there are some survivors, they have expirienced what people are capable of and they will never do the same mistake again. From that moment, these people will never again be friendly to other human beings, because of what they have expirienced.

That is why I think that most of the friendly groups would just be wiped out in a few years. At some point people will ofcourse build towns etc.

But at that point the apocalypse is over, in my opinion.

Edited September 21, 2013 by Wayze

[bibbish 49]

I can see where you're coming from but I don't agree.

 

IMO the early days of the mod were a more authentic and enjoyable experience. There were bandits out there, but the majority were friendly and/or wanted to group up.

 

There was kind of an awkward uncertainty when you met someone... Will they shoot me or eventually betray me? There is no uncertainty any more because I'm certain that everyone will shoot me on sight, lol. DayZ was supposed to be a social experiment in a sense, not a deathmatch, and I feel that it's lost a lot of the tension that made it so great because of the KoS mentality of a lot of players.

 

A couple of things. Authentic in what respect? Authentic meaning traditional? Authentic to real life? I don't think the game is authentic at all. The penalty for dying is great but not great enough, the penalty for killing is near non-existent. That isn't a criticism of the game necessarily, it is limited in what it can achieve, especially if it wants to remain as a fun game and not a way of life.

 

If I was in the woods, dirty, hungry, thirsty, just looking for an axe so I could make a fire and cook my meat (I've already killed a chicken by shooting it, I threw up when I gutted it, I think I have about 1 chicken breast intact), then I spot another survivor in a nearby village I wouldn't jog over to him and go 'wanna team up and shoot zeds, got any coke, I got meat?!' I'd be shitting myself and would either consider shooting him or fleeing.

 

Maybe DayZ was a social experiment. It has run it's course though. The result is that everyone is a dick, well to an extent. 99% of the species to ever inhabit this planet are extinct and we're not special. I wonder what humanity would do under DayZ circumstances. The other way to look at it is that the parameters of the experiment and the questions being asked were no good. If the game had more penalties for bad behavior or all servers had 'rules' (not the type which get you kicked) well at least you could test certain interactions.

 

One result that is clear though is that: I have little interest in teaming up with strangers, for a variety of reasons. If you ask I will go into them. I've always played the game as 'protect me and my buddy from everyone else', I only wish I had more friends with decent PCs who would play with me.    

[bibbish 49]

I expect escapism, pure and simple. A simulation on what and how I would do in a time of terror (i will be playing in the dark, with headphones on)

You're a brave man. I have 'Avast' free antivirus and sometimes it barks 'Virus database updated' or something through the speakers. Shits me right up. Nearly everything shits me up when I play DayZ, I'm often concentrating so hard on handling the zeds and watching out for other people. I suppose escapism is the right word because despite it being not the most realistic thing in the world (thank god), I get right into it.

[Wayze 549]

You're a brave man. I have 'Avast' free antivirus and sometimes it barks 'Virus database updated' or something through the speakers. Shits me right up. Nearly everything shits me up when I play DayZ, I'm often concentrating so hard on handling the zeds and watching out for other people. I suppose escapism is the right word because despite it being not the most realistic thing in the world (thank god), I get right into it.

There is a big difference between playing DayZ alone and with some friends. With friend I don't give a sh*t if I die or not. But somehow when I play alone it is so intense that I sometimes have to concentrate just to stop my hands shaking.

Love the expirience, but it's very hard for me to feel it again. Maybe because I played the game alot, but probably because there is nothing I can lose in the mod.

[bibbish 49]

Well, I don't agree with you. It depends on the scenario, if it was an extreme apocaylpse the people probably would act like in "The Road" (yes, best apocalypse movie ever made).

 

You make some really good points. I should watch 'The Road'. Like everyone and their grandmother I have seen 'The Walking Dead', that bit in the bar where Rick really doesn't want to shoot those two shifty guys, but has to. I think that's how it would go down. And since we cannot read peoples emotions in the game very well, well I think people shoot a bit earlier. 

 

Maybe as the mod and SA get more hardcore and difficult it will deter those people who simply get a Lee or a sniper rife and pick off people from max distance for no reason. Because that gets pretty boring. It'd be nice if the kills were just a bit more meaningful, we can only hope.

[bibbish 49]

There is a big difference between playing DayZ alone and with some friends. With friend I don't give a sh*t if I die or not. But somehow when I play alone it is so intense that I sometimes have to concentrate just to stop my hands shaking.

Love the expirience, but it's very hard for me to feel it again. Maybe because I played the game alot, but probably because there is nothing I can lose in the mod.

Huh, that's really interesting because when I play alone it is really intense but when me and my buddy go raid an airfield, armed with only a 5 shot sniper rifle and some other mediocre weapon I get the shakes if we see another player. I want badly to live and protect my mate. The stakes feel pretty high. When not raiding we've hid in the bushes before at the sound of gunfire or when spotting another player. One of us has said 'What you wanna do?' and the other has said 'dunno'. It's always really interesting because you never know what is going to happen. 

 

It's true though that when we are running like 70km along the coast to meet each other we just chat and that is pretty chilled. Yes, we use Skype. Am I terrible or does everyone do this?