September Round-up: DevBlog, #DayZDaily, PAX, GDC China

[Wayze 549]

It's pretty common for well established companies to take approximately two years to complete projects. Assuming they aren't scavenging from an already usable engine, in which case, they might develop two or three games at the same time using the already tried engine and just strategically market and release them individually; Infinity Ward has been doing this a lot lately. The release date depends more upon finding that marketing sweet spot than anything else. For instance, Naughty Dog had no reason to rush the release of The Last of Us due to Uncharted 3 and they also didn't want to come out to close to Dead Island. Release date targeting requires a lot of research as companies can lose a lot of money if their game comes out in to close a proximity to other huge titles or even similar titles on the same platform. Luckily within the gaming industry the market share renews itself about every three months.

 

Here's that article that explains Naughty Dog's thought process and the info about the team and project time. There are many many articles out there on the same subject but wikipedia pulls it all together well.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_of_Us

That's no article, it is wikipedia. Like I said, prove it please. A quote would be very nice.

 

I know how developement works, but usually it takes more time than 2-3 years to fully develope a game (from concept to full version) like The Last of Us.

[AnarchyBrownies 1383]

Definitely don't regret bailing out of these development talks. The discussion literally has not changed since like March.

[sabre05 351]

After experiencing the AI in The Last of US, I tend to agree. They are just so freaking good! I'm sure the rework will pay off for DayZ SA. It just stinks that it's taken them so long to realize this key feature is broken. I mean, the AI in a zombie game has to be spot on or else it's just a huge fail. I think we all understood with the mod but this is a different story. I'm sure they'll get it right. 

 

The Last of us isn't a 255 square KM open world map though. It's a series of little maps where the team tweaked the AI to work perfectly in all of those situations. With DayZ in such a huge map there will be LOADS of problems concerning AI. Such as bad clipping (zombies attacking through walls/waling literally through the floors) to name one.

[TIC 1050]

Hicks: Lots of discussion on key bindings, end game survivalism, busy month ahead of us. #dayzdaily

[djshauny1 222]

I give up waiting for this game after all these promises.

 

He decides to do a dayz daily then just stops and has gone into hiding, yet again

 

I dont think this game will be out this year at all. Its shady as fuck.

 

This game wont sell well at all. The time has been and gone.

 

Im done.

[TIC 1050]

I'd like to say that it's been a bit over a week since they've been testing out the multiplayer. Rocket's said that until the multiplayer is functional, it'd be released. Must explain why they've been fairly quiet with their focus being on that. Alpha shouldn't be too far away now with the progress being made along with having an additional members for programming. I wouldn't fret about it being released, the longer, the more content we'd get at the end of the wait and it'd be updated along the way as well.

Edited October 1, 2013 by TIC321

[YZ250 248]

I wouldnt really ask for anything more from bohemia than average development.  that said Bongo though managed to make several valid points. Although he made them in the midst of a hate-post, making it hard to appreciate, everyone should still try to remain objective.  

i think bongo is exaggerating for sure, but hes right about the zombie AI.  It is a core feature and simply hasn't been worked at all.   I know they did the little tweaking awhile back but this is no longer the mod. tweaks no longer suffice and they should know that.  It has to work and it has to work well, this is a standalone title that you are selling.  And in all honesty they neglected to work zombies this whole time, despite knowing that zombies are a core feature of the game, and arguably are the most broken part.   Even IF zombies could not be worked due to other programming projects needing completion first, this was not made clear to us, and since this is supposed to be open development we have no reason to believe it is a behind the scenes deal.  So it really does beg the question, why do zombies have no progress made?

 

Put simply from what I have seen from the begining is the total bad management of the Project . Rocket as the Lead Developer is out of his depth and BI should have put someone in charge of the Project , structured development, found out what resources they required etc ( I believe all this is now in place and happening)

 

Because i have a fantastic idea ,ie Game MOD, and BI then said YZ we want to make this Game a Stand Alone Release with you, WELL dont put me in fucking charge of it , I'm clueless to Game Development. I've got no Idea about PR, no Marketing Skills , I will ramble, say the wrong things. Over promise again and again. Hide from Twitter, Reddit, Facebook and Forums for a Month when the Target date I set wasn't achieved, with me never announcing ONE word. I will then make comments like " We will release the Alpha without Zombies if we have to " WITHOUT Zombies, a Zombie Survival Game without Zombies ?? Did I really say that ?

 

So you get my smart arse points I'm making. The SA Dev Team didnt have the right structure nor resources which answers a lot of the critics questions. HOWEVER is appears it does now with a sizeable Team, so things that you thought would do when you only had a Team of 6 , now when you have a Team of 20 you can say ok lets go back and revisit this or this and make it better.

 

Message is Take your Time DAYZ SA Team , and never consider me to Lead a Team :D

[TIC 1050]

Put simply from what I have seen from the begining is the total bad management of the Project . Rocket as the Lead Developer is out of his depth and BI should have put someone in charge of the Project , structured development, found out what resources they required etc ( I believe all this is now in place and happening)

 

Because i have a fantastic idea ,ie Game MOD, and BI then said YZ we want to make this Game a Stand Alone Release with you, WELL dont put me in fucking charge of it , I'm clueless to Game Development. I've got no Idea about PR, no Marketing Skills , I will ramble, say the wrong things. Over promise again and again. Hide from Twitter, Reddit, Facebook and Forums for a Month when the Target date I set wasn't achieved, with me never announcing ONE word. I will then make comments like " We will release the Alpha without Zombies if we have to " WITHOUT Zombies, a Zombie Survival Game without Zombies ?? Did I really say that ?

 

So you get my smart arse points I'm making. The SA Dev Team didnt have the right structure nor resources which answers a lot of the critics questions. HOWEVER is appears it does now with a sizeable Team, so things that you thought would do when you only had a Team of 6 , now when you have a Team of 20 you can say ok lets go back and revisit this or this and make it better.

 

Message is Take your Time DAYZ SA Team , and never consider me to Lead a Team :D

 

..What?

[ZlobaRUS54 441]

Put simply from what I have seen from the begining is the total bad management of the Project . Rocket as the Lead Developer is out of his depth and BI should have put someone in charge of the Project , structured development, found out what resources they required etc ( I believe all this is now in place and happening)

 

Because i have a fantastic idea ,ie Game MOD, and BI then said YZ we want to make this Game a Stand Alone Release with you, WELL dont put me in fucking charge of it , I'm clueless to Game Development. I've got no Idea about PR, no Marketing Skills , I will ramble, say the wrong things. Over promise again and again. Hide from Twitter, Reddit, Facebook and Forums for a Month when the Target date I set wasn't achieved, with me never announcing ONE word. I will then make comments like " We will release the Alpha without Zombies if we have to " WITHOUT Zombies, a Zombie Survival Game without Zombies ?? Did I really say that ?

 

So you get my smart arse points I'm making. The SA Dev Team didnt have the right structure nor resources which answers a lot of the critics questions. HOWEVER is appears it does now with a sizeable Team, so things that you thought would do when you only had a Team of 6 , now when you have a Team of 20 you can say ok lets go back and revisit this or this and make it better.

 

Message is Take your Time DAYZ SA Team , and never consider me to Lead a Team :D

 

+1 I'm a senior developer myself and saw the disaster associated with making an inexperienced person a PM a mile away. BI is to blame for this really, they shoved the SA project into a dark corner fed with whatever lefovers they had from their Arma III flagship project. Seriously if my mod/app achieved that level of access with 0 marketing I'd go to any length to secure every bit of funding possible from every source to hire an experienced well staffed team.

[RedNome 443]

Make it stop, please.........MAKE IT STOP!!!

[Private Evans 1303]

From watching the devblogs and of course playing the mod I would say the problem is not the AI but the animation system. Basic Zombie Ai is quiet simple ...idle..alert and combat depending on sound/noise, line of sight and maybe even smell.This works even basically well in the mod and since the devs ripped out the soldier AI from A2 (zigzagging and stuff) and improved pathinding (especially inside of buildings) and collision models things should be a lot better now. But what still looks bad and stupid is the way zombies attack or better said the way they always finish the complete attack animation first before recalculating the conditions. For example if a jump attack fails the infected should immediately start searching and hunting the player again and NOT finish the attack animation ( beating nothing else than air and ground).Same goes for all attack animations.The questions is if the engine can handle the needed smooth transitions ???

Edited October 1, 2013 by Private Evans

[sabre05 351]

I give up waiting for this game after all these promises.

 

He decides to do a dayz daily then just stops and has gone into hiding, yet again

 

I dont think this game will be out this year at all. Its shady as fuck.

 

This game wont sell well at all. The time has been and gone.

 

Im done.

 

Cya.

[St. Jimmy 1631]

From watching the devblogs and of course playing the mod I would say the problem is not the AI but the animation system. Basic Zombie Ai is quiet simple ...idle..alert and combat depending on sound/noise, line of sight and maybe even smell.This works even basically well in the mod and since the devs ripped out the soldier AI from A2 (zigzagging and stuff) and improved pathinding (especially inside of buildings) and collision models things should be a lot better now. But what still looks bad and stupid is the way zombies attack or better said the way they always finish the complete attack animation first before recalculating the conditions. For example if a jump attack fails the infected should immediately start searching and hunting the player again and NOT finish the attack animation ( beating nothing else than air and ground).Same goes for all attack animations.The questions is if the engine can handle the needed smooth transitions ???

Yep I forgot to mention is too quick animations. Engine can't handle Usain Bolt speed running zombies especially inside. Decreasing the speed would help and the AI maybe could even think bit more ahead. This would also mean that they need to implement stamina system for the players so we can't run forever away from slower zombies. What you're saying about the attack you're right. The new AI what rocket is suggesting doesn't solve that so they need to still solve it somehow. Smooth transitions is bit of a problem in RV. They really need to think about the animation and speed so the zombies even look decent.

[Wili 156]

Hey Rocket, stop releasing development info, people are getting mad  :D

Edited October 1, 2013 by Wili

[Hosty 647]

weren´t you the guys defending Dean for whatever he is accused for even if true?

 

and only because i have a few posts on the forums doesnt mean i didnt read them or watched interviews, in all follow the developement does it?

 

i respond now because there are still the blindloving fanboys defending him whereever it is possible and because i´m sick of Deans talking

gamescon-impression in connection with the ZombieAI beeing at ZERO was the final straw.

see: even tho i could have understand the fact that they need time for the "networkbubble" to be decent, i can defenitly not understand why the f. AI is at zero after one year of developement. i dont demand anything to be perfect for ALPHA(srsly) but he/they fail in coreparts to get the game running and u guys are still pleased with weaponattachement and crafting. these are cool, yes, but in fact gimmicks worth nothing right now.

 

You still didn't explain why I shouldn't be defending him.

[Armaggedon97 33]

31st of September? What? September only has 30 days afaik.  :huh:

[Private Evans 1303]

Yep I forgot to mention is too quick animations. Engine can't handle Usain Bolt speed running zombies especially inside. Decreasing the speed would help and the AI maybe could even think bit more ahead. This would also mean that they need to implement stamina system for the players so we can't run forever away from slower zombies. What you're saying about the attack you're right. The new AI what rocket is suggesting doesn't solve that so they need to still solve it somehow. Smooth transitions is bit of a problem in RV. They really need to think about the animation and speed so the zombies even look decent.

 

Yap ..slower ( and if possible more) zeds in combination with a player stamina system would be much better...maybe spiced up with some more dead end streets inside towns and villages...would also play nicely with the new injured player animations

( the walking dead season 2 with Shane and Otis)

[Dr. Goner 661]

That's no article, it is wikipedia. Like I said, prove it please. A quote would be very nice.

 

I know how developement works, but usually it takes more time than 2-3 years to fully develope a game (from concept to full version) like The Last of Us.

 

There are over a hundred citations at the bottom of that wiki article. As far as I'm concerned, I have proven it. You are simply wrong. I don't care how long you "think" a game "usually takes" to complete. In Naughty Dog's case it took them two years. That information is widely available.

 

What is your beef man? I wasn't even being critical. I was just pointing out a fact and then provided you with a reference, which you deny. You've done this to me before, so I have to believe one of two things. You have an ulterior motive in contradicting anything I prove or you're to lazy to actually read an article yourself? 

 

Also, not to be a dick but if you "know" how development works, you may want to learn how to spell the word.

Edited October 1, 2013 by DrGonzo

[Wayze 549]

There are over a hundred citations at the bottom of that wiki article. As far as I'm concerned, I have proven it. You are simply wrong. I don't care how long you "think" a game "usually takes" to complete. In Naughty Dog's case it took them two years. That information is widely available.

Now I don't know how it is handled in your country (school), but to prove an argument you cannot just leave a source and that's it. It is not my duty to search the whole internet for your argument.

 

I would gladly believe you and I never said that the game wasn't made within a year. So, nope I am not "simply wrong" and you still have to delivier evidence if you want me to believe you.

[Dr. Goner 661]

Now I don't know how it is handled in your country (school), but to prove an argument you cannot just leave a source and that's it. It is not my duty to search the whole internet for your argument.

 

I would gladly believe you and I never said that the game wasn't made within a year. So, nope I am not "simply wrong" and you still have to delivier evidence if you want me to believe you.

 

It took two years to make the game and the article I gave you is sufficient evidence of that fact. Now kindly move on as you are the only one that seems to not understand this.

[Wayze 549]

It took two years to make the game and the article I gave you is sufficient evidence of that fact. Now kindly move on as you are the only one that seems to not understand this.

You gave me no article. O.o

 

http://gamerant.com/the-last-of-us-naughty-dog-hold-121324/

Dec 2011 they said it was in developement for two years. As it released June 2013 it would've been more than 3 years. Additionally to that I am pretty sure with developement time it just means the time they actually programming the game.

Edited October 1, 2013 by Wayze

[Dr. Goner 661]

You gave me no article. O.o

 

http://gamerant.com/the-last-of-us-naughty-dog-hold-121324/

Dec 2011 they said it was in developement for two years. As it released June 2013 it would've been more than 3 years. Additionally to that I am pretty sure with developement time it just means the time they actually programming the game.

 

Well, if you read the article I posted you would have seen that they had the game finished around the same time that they planned on releasing Uncharted 3. Which is what I spent most of the posts I made on the subject talking about. I'm honestly starting to question whether or not you can read or if you just cherry pick the first thing you don't agree with and go on a mindless "nah no no nah no no" blathering rant that ads nothing to the conversation and only proves that you have to much time on your hands. 

 

The wonderful thing about wikipedia is that it contains citations at the bottom of each article. You're getting close to figuring it out, now just stay patient. I know it's harder than reading a tweet or a forum post but if you dig a little deeper you'll get there. 

 

EDIT: Obviously the article I sent you wasn't useless as the article you posted was one of the cited references from the article. You're ludicrous. So which is it, is the article useless or are you using it to try and contradict what it actually states? Also, my point stands. It took a team of 40 people, two years to develop The Last of Us. They built the engine from scratch and didn't scavenge any resources. Pretty great feat considering the fact that the game is also amazing.

Edited October 1, 2013 by DrGonzo

[Wayze 549]

Well, if you read the article I posted you would have seen that they had the game finished around the same time that they planned on releasing Uncharted 3. Which is what I spent most of the posts I made on the subject talking about. I'm honestly starting to question whether or not you can read or if you just cherry pick the first thing you don't agree with and go on a mindless "nah no no nah no no" blathering rant that ads nothing to the conversation and only proves that you have to much time on your hands. 

 

The wonderful thing about wikipedia is that it contains citations at the bottom of each article. You're getting close to figuring it out, now just stay patient. I know it's harder than reading a tweet or a forum post but if you dig a little deeper you'll get there. 

 

EDIT: Obviously the article I sent you wasn't useless as the article you posted was one of the cited references from the article. You're ludicrous. So which is it, is the article useless or are you using it to try and contradict what it actually states?

Obviously you still haven't sent me any articles. xD

 

Well, it gets kind of ridicilous right now and it seems you have no idea of how to talk to people civilized. Also you could've sent me the article you want me to read long ago, but you didn't. It really looks like you just want to argue with people.

[Dr. Goner 661]

Obviously you still haven't sent me any articles. xD

 

Well, it gets kind of ridicilous right now and it seems you have no idea of how to talk to people civilized. Also you could've sent me the article you want me to read long ago, but you didn't. It really looks like you just want to argue with people.

 

You posted the 18th reference from the article that I posted here so apparently you found it pretty useful. Anyone can check this if they look back to the original wiki article and check reference number 18. It is the same article that Wayze posted after he said my article was useless. Apparently it's not that useless as you are using it for your claims.

 

Also, I posted the article here which is what caused you to start harassing me in the first place. So why would I need to post it again? Anyone that wants can look back to the previous page at the article I posted.

 

EDIT: This is not the first time that Wayze has done this to me.  And now, tries to call me out for arguing. 

Edited October 1, 2013 by DrGonzo

[Zanders 65]

Sorry but wtf...

This is my first post and probably my last so i am going to make it worth it.

 

Some of you  act like immature babies and probably do not even have the slightest idea about how you should behave.

The posts from some of you are so fucking retarded that it unbelievable.

 

Grow the fuck up and start act like a normal fucking human being and stop treat people who are trying really hard to bring you something you all want.

Its not like they made a lot of money on the mod in the first place. Somehow they managed to get official support and are now trying their best to finally do it right.

 

So please. Do me and a lot of others a favor, stop sitting at home thinking you are mr all mighty who knows every bit about everything and calm down. Posting these stupid fucking posts do not help anyone. 

 

I can just imagine how some of the developers feel when reading your stupid fucking posts.

 

Im done!