First vs Third Person Discussion (Dslyecxi video)

[Jonah_Hobbes 171]

It is my belief that people don't play 1pp because it is harder or they are simply afraid. And since the onus is so heavy on KoS, 3pp will win out due to the myriad of strategic advantages. As for the player base, that hasn't really been established yet and I think the devs implementing certain restrictions will push their desired target audience to the vanilla game.

 

In my oppinion 3pp ruins the experience of the desperate fight for survival and horror aspects of the game and turns it into a treasure hunt battle royale with dumb bot AI to inconvenience you. Both types are fun games but the former offers a more rich and rewarding personal experience. Especially if player interaction is a factor. 

 

FFS How many times!!!!!??? There are many of us who don't play 1pp or FPS games because it makes us feel sick, nauseous etc. Motion sickness if research is to be believed effects 10% to 50% of gamers,

 

The effects, which are usually feeling so sick that you want to vomit and headaches, can continue after you stopped playing the game for two to three hours.

 

It's a nightmare I would dearly love to play 1PP but I'm not putting up with 3 hours of feeling like I've been poisoned for 15 minutes DayZ time which is usually all I can handle.

 

And yes I've tried everything.

Edited December 5, 2015 by Jonah_Hobbes

[trev186 389]

I really don't think it is going to seriously put anybody out by making the official servers 1pp.  Mostly the people who will be negatively affected, would be those with conditions that make 1pp visually unbearable; and they will only have to learn a bit more about how to select 3pp servers on their first day playing.

 

If you can acknowledge these two basic premises, it will be much easier to see that 1pp should be the "default" state of the game.

 

Premise one:  DayZ is an open-world sandbox survival game, in which player interactions primarily drive the play experience.

 

Premise two:  3pp can be exploited to covertly detect other players, without exposing ones self to detection; thus unbalancing player interactions.

 

If neither of my two premises can be factually denied, then it follows that 3pp is unsuitable for competitive play, and that 1pp should be the standard default perspective used.  I'm not saying that 3pp should be banned, but it should definitely not be the standard used by the majority of streamers and e-sports events once the game reaches its 1.0 release.

 

That being said, 1pp definitely needs some stance and PP adjustments, which will hopefully come along soon with the new player controller.

 

 

it is great that you "think" that but the current and past state of play disagree...

 

Large majority of the players back in the mod and current dayz have played 3 pp over 1 pp options

 

Limiting 3pp to only private servers screws a lot of people over not even from a preference point of view...i am literally looking at my server list on friday night and if u exclude exp i cannot find non official server that has more than 10 people on the west coast with less than 100 ping....if i include exp west coast servers all told player count with more than 10 people online add up to about 200...this is on 3pp

 

of the 1pp options not even a single west coast based official or non official server has more than 10...

 

So this solution means I prolly wont get a 3pp option with decent ping less i drop the $80 month to host one myself...

Edited December 5, 2015 by trev186

[q.S Sachiel 470]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKYsk4r2kxM

[emuthreat 2837]

it is great that you "think" that but the current and past state of play disagree...

 

Large majority of the players back in the mod and current dayz have played 3 pp over 1 pp options

Limiting 3pp to only private servers screws a lot of people over not even from a preference point of view...i am literally looking at my server list on friday night and if u exclude exp i cannot find non official server that has more than 10 people on the west coast with less than 100 ping....if i include exp west coast servers all told player count with more than 10 people online add up to about 200...this is on 3pp

 

of the 1pp options not even a single west coast based official or non official server has more than 10...

 

So this solution means I prolly wont get a 3pp option with decent ping less i drop the $80 month to host one myself...

 

Well I introduced two premises that you conveniently avoided addressing.  My purpose in using those premesis was to divest this discussion from simply what I thought, and make a logical argument as to the suitability of 3pp for league play; and as an extension, the preferred choice for the basic "vanilla experience." 

 

Given the prominence of people who simply cannot play 1pp for health reasons, it follows that if 1pp was to be the default state of official servers, reasonable accommodations would have to be made to ensure there was also a good regional distribution of 3pp official servers.  I'm not saying that everybody should be forced to play one way or another, but as far as competitive mainstream play goes, I see a clear preference for 1pp as being the most balanced experience.

 

I would still be interested to hear if either of my two premises could be logically denied.

[mercules 1290]

FFS How many times!!!!!??? There are many of us who don't play 1pp or FPS games because it makes us feel sick, nauseous etc. Motion sickness if research is to be believed effects 10% to 50% of gamers,

 

Do you really have a link to these amazing statistics? I would like to see them.

[q.S Sachiel 470]

Certain physical copy media list statistics as such.  I believe WoW had a statistic, others do too, like inside of CD jewel case / game manuals.

[DemonGroover 8836]

So in the not too distant future when VR hits mainstream and we all do our shopping, work and vacations via Virual Reality 50% of the world are screwed because they get nauseous?

Well that sucks. I am sure evolution will weed you out in future generations though.

[Bororm 1156]

It's an idiotic idea to make public servers 1pp only.  You can't force people to like something, give it up.

 

The result will be public servers being empty and everyone having to play private.  The downside of that is having to deal with potentially corrupt admins, servers going down due to lack of funding, and other nuances.  I like playing good private hives, but they're usually few and far between.  It's always been my hope for DayZ that there'd be a point where I don't need to play a private server because the public ones would be secure and good enough not to.

 

Essentially this becomes less about 1pp vs 3pp and forcing people to make the choice of public or private.

[Jonah_Hobbes 171]

So in the not too distant future when VR hits mainstream and we all do our shopping, work and vacations via Virual Reality 50% of the world are screwed because they get nauseous?

Well that sucks. I am sure evolution will weed you out in future generations though.

 

what a fucking retarded thing to say and you're a mod what a disgrace.

Edited December 5, 2015 by Jonah_Hobbes

[Jonah_Hobbes 171]

Do you really have a link to these amazing statistics? I would like to see them.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2011/dec/19/video-games-makes-me-sick

[Konfucious K 183]

FFS How many times!!!!!??? There are many of us who don't play 1pp or FPS games because it makes us feel sick, nauseous etc. Motion sickness if research is to be believed effects 10% to 50% of gamers,

 

The effects, which are usually feeling so sick that you want to vomit and headaches, can continue after you stopped playing the game for two to three hours.

 

It's a nightmare I would dearly love to play 1PP but I'm not putting up with 3 hours of feeling like I've been poisoned for 15 minutes DayZ time which is usually all I can handle.

 

And yes I've tried everything.

 

As many times as it takes for you to realise that the world doesn't revolve around you. I said it in my second post, just because there are people out there with medical conditions does not mean they have a right to request an alteration to artistic expression, it is certainly nice of developers to put things in for people to make an experience for them but not required (how many games have colour blind options?). Do you also feel that roller-coasters should be made slower for you? I have a friend who has asthma and plays football, should we all run slower when he gets out of breath?

 

The article you quoted is not cited making it incredible, and the author is a pop culture critic at best with not much discernible research or scientific qualification. All that aside even he states that the figures "may" apply to people at "varying degrees" and has admitted there is very little research to back anything up anyway.

 

One of the article's "sources" has this as a disclaimer; 

Disclaimer: I think that I have figured out at least part of what causes the problem, but I do have to state that I am not a doctor and don’t have anything other than personal observations to back up any of the statements made in this piece. If your symptoms are particularly severe, see a doctor.

 

Finally; 1pp may not be the cause in a majority of situations. My brother used to get similar sickness when interacting with any aspect of a computer screen and being an electronic engineer this is a crucial part of his job. The solution? He needed glasses. Other reasons could include photosensitive disorders, refresh rates, mouse sensitivity levels, over-exposure etc. Aside from all of this again, there is medication and therapy that can help.

 

Point is, we all have problems, myself included, but it should not be the developers responsibility or burden to bear. They have server issues to deal with!

Edited December 5, 2015 by Konfucious K

[Jonah_Hobbes 171]

As many times as it takes for you to realise that the world doesn't revolve around you. I said it n my second post, just because there are people out there with medical conditions does not mean they have a right to request an alteration to artistic expression, it is certainly nice of developers to put things in for people to make an experience for them but not required (how many games have colour blind options?). Do you also feel that roller-coasters should be made slower for you? I have a friend who has asthma and plays football, should we all run slower when he gets out of breath?

 

The article you quoted is not cited making it incredible, and the author is a pop culture critic at best with. All that aside even he states that the figures "may" apply to people at "varying degrees" and has admitted there is very little research to back anything up anyway.

 

One of the article's "sources" has this as a disclaimer; 

Disclaimer: I think that I have figured out at least part of what causes the problem, but I do have to state that I am not a doctor and don’t have anything other than personal observations to back up any of the statements made in this piece. If your symptoms are particularly severe, see a doctor.

 

Finally; 1pp may not be the cause in a majority of situations. My brother used to get similar sickness when interacting with any aspect of a computer screen and being an electronic engineer this is a crucial part of his job. The solution? He needed glasses. Other reasons could include photosensitive disorders, refresh rates, mouse sensitivity levels, over-exposure etc. Aside from all of this again, there is medication and therapy that can help.

 

Point is, we all have problems, myself included, but it should not be the developers responsibility or burden to bear. They have server issues to deal with!

 

What a charitable stance you have - pat yourself on the back.

 

So the mod and the standalone has 3pp now you want to remove that? It seems to me that you feel the need for the world to revolve around you then?  So you can enjoy the game your way? I bought the game with a 3pp and expect official servers to support that.

 

I love roller coasters. Never been seasick despite being in some significant weather on both sides of the world.

 

So I'd put that ahead of being able to tolerate motion sickness from a computer game. 

 

Yeah we've got no idea of figures but google "motion sickness" and "video games" and you get to see a huge number of people suffering from this.

 

That's fine if DayZ want to continue to marginalize itself  further which seems to be the tone of things on this forum these days.

Edited December 5, 2015 by Jonah_Hobbes

[Konfucious K 183]

What a charitable stance you have - pat yourself on the back.

 

1) So the mod and the standalone has 3pp now you want to remove that? It seems to me that you feel the need for the world to revolve around you then?  So you can enjoy the game your way? I bought the game with a 3pp and expect official servers to support that.

 

2) I love roller coasters. Never been seasick despite being in some significant weather on both sides of the world.

 

3) So I'd put that ahead of being able to tolerate motion sickness from a computer game. 

 

4) Yeah we've got no idea of figures but google "motion sickness" and "video games" and you get to see a huge number of people suffering from this.

 

5) That's fine if DayZ want to continue to marginalize itself  further which seems to be the tone of things on this forum these days.

 

I'm not a charity and I expect none in return, not for "problems" such as these anyway.

 

1)  I didn't say I wanted anything, I was stating some opinions and then contradicted some "facts". In the end I am just curious to see what the developers will eventually come out with as the final iteration of their vision. Not what people told them to do or what I may come up with as a result of personal bias - organised fun anyone?

 

2) So what about people that use roller-coasters and feel sick, you don't mind if they slow it down or change it for you, the non-afflicted, so they can enjoy it at their level too? 

 

3) I do not understand this comment, you will need to elaborate.

 

4) DayZ is an inanimate object and has no power to do anything. But my silliness aside, the game is aimed at a marginalised audience already and most games are. But as for the the tone of the forums or people such as myself; I have observed no such interest in marginalising anyone or anything. In fact it is a nurturing debate environment which quickly weeds out uncooperative, unproductive or destructive (to the project) individuals. Debates such as this are more of a matter of protecting artistic freedom and credibility under the weight of social justice warrior political correctness overstepping its boundaries. 

 

Edit: By the way, your cat is awesome.

Edited December 5, 2015 by Konfucious K

[IgnobleBasterd 161]

But if 3pp servers are stealing people from 1pp servers then that means that they prefer 3pp to begin with...

I use 1pp in cities and combat and use 3pp for running/cutting trees and setting up my camp. I use it when I play DayZRP too since I always feel like I'm watching a movie.

Short story I prefer 1st but play on all. So why does everyone keep bitchin?

Go play a 1pp server if it's so supreme, don't go on 3pp servers.

 

If only 1pp existed, then people would only play 1pp. It would be awesome!

[Bororm 1156]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  The 1pp people who bitch so much ironically have tunnel vision and can't look at anything from an angle other than their own.

[Reacher (DayZ) 15]

Keep your common sense out of here!

Oh, I deeply, sincerely apologize for this huge, monumental mistake aka brainfart. It will not ever happend again. Infact, I will try to redeem myself instantly.....

Uh...all you 1pp....misfits, yeah....you all like suck...bad...and, uh....yeah, suck...eat my shorts I´m the best and I know it all cause my pc is superior...I got a gfx card...and RAM...banana, yeah...and your mom is so fat that it took her ass 5 minutes to pass my kitchen window....yeah.

[stinkenheim 249]

How many times must this be said;

Official servers DOES NOT mean every public server.

People need to stop complaining about a change that will have very minimal impact on the way they currently play and more importantly stop with the overly pretentious, ego fluffing debate as to why you play whichever mode you play.

In short, 3pp is going nowhere.

A handful of public servers MAY become 1pp but currently that is just a thought and not a plan.

[DemonGroover 8836]

what a fucking retarded thing to say and you're a mod what a disgrace.

Oh shut up you humourless fool. Stop taking yourself so seriously.

PM me or report me if you have an issue.

[jacobahalls 80]

My only arugment for 1st and 3rd isnt about wallpeeking, unatural camera viewing, or anything like that. It is that NO other multiplayer game that is PVP oreinted and matters if you die allows the ability to switch between the two on the fly. 3rd person only became popular from the mod because it gave you advantage. If Arma 1 only allowed first and never implemented 3rd. We would not be having this argument. In my personal opinion the devs need to pick ONE, this game needs to be either a 3rd person shooter or a FPS, not both. With COD, Battlefield, Gears of War, Mass Effect and any other shooter no one argues about this because you cant.

IF they only choose one it could be a good thing because then they could just develop for one camera angle and not both. I'm not picking which one is better, just that the game needs to have tag and not on the fence.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Jacobahalls

[sneakydudes 278]

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2011/dec/19/video-games-makes-me-sick

I actually agree

 

but staying out of this pointless argument for the 10th time. Same with 1p/3p topics.

 

 

Small question, how many turn their heads when they see movies with credits flowing so fast you cant read them?

Edited December 5, 2015 by TheSneakyDude

[xalienax 621]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  The 1pp people who bitch so much ironically have tunnel vision and can't look at anything from an angle other than their own.

so true. i was once in favor of 1pp, But the 1pp Advocates are so self righteous that i now support the existence of 3pp to spite them in protest of thier narrow-minded ignorance.:p

 

1.) this debate has been done to death.

2.) I have never seen a non-joking/troll post seriously try to enforce 3pp on 1pp players.

3.) I have seen TONS of 1pp players try to force thier ideas down 3pp players throats.

 

both options exist for a reason. play your story, your way, and stop bitching how others choose to play is my .02 on it :)

[green_mtn_grandbob 594]

at this time 3rd person servers out number the 1st person servers so 1st person players feel cheated 

[Rauchsauger 94]

Maybe people would start playing 1pp if they actually moved it to the eye level rather than shoulder? I'm peeking from a window and it blocks half of my vision, are we playing adults at this game or 6 year olds?

 

Also, we should be able to control the height of our heads, so that I can like bend my neck a bit down and peek more carefully. Just like in ARMA 3, there are a couple of stances you can switch while peeking.

 

With this current 1pp build the devs can do whatever they want, people will not play 1pp anyway. If they want people to play 1pp they should improve it first.

 

P.S I like to play 1pp

This needs to be done.

There is so much wrong with the perspectve of 1pp when objects like houses etc are in play. It is just bad atm.

[mercules 1290]

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2011/dec/19/video-games-makes-me-sick

 

The "works cited" are a 404 page. The other links lead to studies on motion sickness which are not specific to visual motion sickness from realistic video games. So I am going to ignore the 10-50% claim until actual peer reviewed studies are presented. 

[mercules 1290]

Yeah we've got no idea of figures but google "motion sickness" and "video games" and you get to see a huge number of people suffering from this.

Google "Color blindness" and you get to see a huge number of people suffering from it. But I don't see a color correction option in the game so that other players stand out against the backgrounds more.

 

Google "Arthritis" it's not just an elderly issue either, there are a huge number of people suffering from it. But I don't see a voice control option in the game so that players can play without cramping their fingers around a mouse.

 

Maybe we need an auto-aim feature for those who have a medical condition (I can think of dozens of them) that makes careful control of a mouse difficult. I used to play games with a friend with cerebral palsy. When we got together we wouldn't play FPS, racing games, flight sims, or anything like that. We wouldn't even play RTS games but played turn based games where if it took him a minute to input orders because he was having trouble with the controls it was fine. He didn't insist games have features to overcome his personal challenges, he just didn't play them. 

Edited December 5, 2015 by Mercules