First vs Third Person Discussion (Dslyecxi video)

[Ken Bean 174]

Nothing other than my fingers and eyes moved while playing those games. ah.. maybe.. *coughs*  nvm

 

 

Am I right that you merge with your computer, reaching a new level of being? Your eyes and you body disconnects, you feel the pixles, and then you fload into the the matrix, right? Yes, everyone who is immersed does it all the time. ^^

 

Nah, I know what I like and frankly am not convinced of the *super immersion* is the shiz.

Came along all my life without that marketing term. All immersion for me is nothing else than dense believable atmosphere. Importand is, the entire world must be consitent. Then you can 1st person throw out of the window. The whole is more than the sum of its parts. And 1st person for me just is a minor important part.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Ken Bean

[Mos1ey 6301]

My mom used to. She would bounce the controller up every time she wanted him to jump and lean certain directions when she wanted the character to move that way. Like I said though, lack of hand and eye coordination. 

 

I'm having flashbacks to being 8 years old and playing Pandemonium on the Playstation.

[Heiduk 265]

I finally had a chance to watch this video, good stuff, thanks for the link. Things I learned: We need more data, also more pain suits.

[Wayze 549]

Am I right that you merge with your computer, reaching a new level of being? Your eyes and you body disconnects, you feel the pixles, and then you fload into the the matrix, right? Yes, everyone who is immersed does it all the time. ^^

 

Nah, I know what I like and frankly am not convinced of the *super immersion* is the shiz.

Came along all my life without that marketing term. All immersion for me is nothing else than dense believable atmosphere. Importand is, the entire world must be consitent. Then you can 1st person throw out of the window. The whole is more than the sum of its parts. And 1st person for me just is a minor important part.

It seems you are a real expert.

[dgeesio 1034]

can we have a poll for those who use 3rd person in a derogritory response because they are first person hierarchy ! would love to see the stats .

Edited August 31, 2013 by dgeesio

[Ken Bean 174]

It seems you are a real expert.

 

You will come to the point as well sooner or later. Might help to not to fanatise a perspective (which alone means absolutely nothing).

Edited August 31, 2013 by Ken Bean

[Wayze 549]

You will come to the point as well sooner or later.

Wow! Now you are a prophet, too.

[Ken Bean 174]

Wow! Now you are a prophet, too.

 

No, I just mean everyone grows up some insights.

[philbottle 430]

We should have 4th person. The one who laughs their arse off over people getting shitty about how they think others should play the game.

 

Yes, I'm being offensive but maybe if you play in 5th person Jean Paul Sartre will come along and accuse you of being too real. This post doesn't exist <_<

[Wayze 549]

No, I just mean everyone grows up some insights.

I really don't think that's true.

[DemonGroover 8836]

Initiating infinite loop......

 

Please select.......

 

Infinite Loop

 

 

[griffinz 2816]

Does anyone else think 3rd person should be removed?

[tommes 331]

That would be why people are looking forward to the DayZ Standlone FoV slider.

Numpad + and - already zoom in and out. It's practically a FOV slider.

[tommes 331]

Almost every movie out there is made in 3rd person.

No. They are made for different camera aspects. Third person like in video games must be the least used.

Btw, movies are made to tell a story, not make one yourself. Life is in first person though. Tough shit!

[Wayze 549]

Does anyone else think 3rd person should be removed?

Now I don't know if Dean is aware of the situation.

http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=5220c5f8e4b09938befb2ec1

 

But that is something he just cannot ignore. I want atleast a good statement from him!

[Trizzo 632]

-snip- Almost every movie out there is made in 3rd person. -snip-

 

Yahoo! We have a winner for the worst line of argument of this thread award.

Edited August 31, 2013 by Trizzo

[tommes 331]

Here's the lates clip from nickbunyun playing Wasteland. I usally like this guy and found his videos entertaining...but this one rather makes me sick. It shows everything that's wrong playing with 3rd person view enabled. See stuff you shouldn't be able to see without changing your position drastically, stalk enemies while totally behind cover, pre-aiming and then spray'n'pray right out of cover.

His playstyle is totally legit for this setting but for me this has the quality of watching some kids play Tekken while wildly pressing buttons. Even present variations of CoD are less arcady.

You see, in a first person only setting one guy behind cover, e.g. a rock, the other guy in open field, would be a relatively fair fight. The guy behind cover couldn't see much without exposing himself at least a little. His advantage of cover would be evened out by the disadvantage of much less tactical information.

In a third person environment the guy in open field is just fucked. There'd be no interesting test of skills but merely an execution.

[rossums 2190]

Does anyone else think 3rd person should be removed?

It shouldn't be removed but it should be tweaked to balance it with 1st-person.

The entire problem seems to be that using 3rd-person gives you a significant FOV advantage as well as the ability to see over obstacles - forcing the camera closer to the player while up close to an object would fix that, a similar method to many other 3rd-person shooters.

1st-person could also have a widened FOV as it seems to be quite narrow at the moment.

There is no real need to remove it if it is still possible to disable via server rules but making sure that 1st and 3rd person are more balanced is a must have - that way it is a lot fairer and people can use their preferred view without gaining any advantages.

Edited August 31, 2013 by Rossums

[Wayze 549]

Here's the lates clip from nickbunyun playing Wasteland. I usally like this guy and found his videos entertaining...but this one rather makes me sick. It shows everything that's wrong playing with 3rd person view enabled. See stuff you shouldn't be able to see without changing your position drastically, stalk enemies while totally behind cover, pre-aiming and then spray'n'pray right out of cover.

His playstyle is totally legit for this setting but for me this has the quality of watching some kids play Tekken while wildly pressing buttons. Even present variations of CoD are less arcady.

You see, in a first person only setting one guy behind cover, e.g. a rock, the other guy in open field, would be a relatively fair fight. The guy behind cover couldn't see much without exposing himself at least a little. His advantage of cover would be evened out by the disadvantage of much less tactical information.

In a third person environment the guy in open field is just fucked. There'd be no interesting test of skills but merely an execution.

Thanks for the video. But I think most of us know that third person sucks. There are some people who just won't get it and you won't be able to explain it to them no matter how hard you try.

 

Is there someone who has contact to jackfrags, frankieonpc or some other huge DayZ Youtuber? Would be great if one of those would make a video about that, refering to the poll that was made. This would cause that actually almost every single DayZ player would vote in the poll.

 

 

Edit:

Saw the video, it shows really good how much it changes the gameplay. One single person is in a huge advantage when being in combat with a bigger group. You can easily locate them and kill them.

That is why I play like always in a team of two. It is possible to take out groups of 10 people just being in a good position. This however would be never so easy in first person. A huge group should have the advantage and they would have because the smaller group has a hard job to locate all the people. They can be flanked without noticing. They can be suppressed very well, and being suppressed they are not able to locate any of the enemies. This however works in third person perfectly fine, because you can be suppressed and just what over your cover.

Edited August 31, 2013 by Wayze

[Trizzo 632]

Okay...no need to go back over the arguments again.

 

Is a FOV slider going in SA? I'm sure it was. If it is, never mention the FOV again, anyone.

 

One thing i'm sure we can all agree upon. Prone should be locked in first person. Thats a slumdunk, gimme, mulligan, guaranteed certainty. An inevitable, inexorable addition to the game and if it isn't any of those things it should be. TPV+prone adds nothing to the game.

 

Secondly, any body postion that gives concealment (looking at you crouch/potential stances) then it should tighten the TPV. When you lower your body, therefore lowering your eyeballs, you are less capable of seeing stuff.  It's pretty simple.

 

If you disagree because you want to ignore logic or prefer asthetics over gameplay just say so. And note that the existence of other illogical aspects of DayZ does not invalidate any part of this discussion. I'd hope that the devs strive to fix all illogical istances in the hope of making a more authentic experience.

 

Don't fret Demongroover. If it took 76 pages for progress it took 76 pages. Change is clearly coming, this thread is foreplay. Player persepective is one of the most important topics because what we see pretty much determines if we live or die, it's well worth the tramua of this thread :P

Edited August 31, 2013 by Trizzo

[Wayze 549]

Okay...no need to go back over the arguments again.

 

Is a FOV slider going in SA? I'm sure it was. If it is never mention the FOV again, anyone.

 

One thing i'm sure we can all agree upon. Prone should be locked in first person. Thats a slumdunk, gimme, mulligan, guaranteed certainty, an inevitably, inexorable addition to the game and if it isn't any of those things it should be. TPV+prone adds nothing to the game.

 

Secondly, any body postion that gives concealment (looking at your crouch) should tighten the TPV. When you lower your body, therefore lowering your eyeballs, you are less capable of seeing stuff.  It's pretty simple.

 

If you disagree because you want to ignore logic just say so. And note that the existence of other illogical aspects of DayZ does not render issues raised in this discussion invalid. Player persepective is one of the most important topics because what we see pretty much determines if we live or die.

 

Don't fret Demongroover. If it took 75 pages for progress it took 75 pages.

Most of us just want the third person gone and right now our only goal is to get rocket realising that. Sure optimised third person would be cool but A) if you would optimise it, it would be useless and probably even worse than first person and B] we don't want third person.

 

Third person is just like a camper mode. There is no flanking, there is no sneaking up from behind, there is just this "wait what the other guy does and kill him if he gets out of his cover". If you don't have third person you just have to figure it out. You are afraid of peeking out, you are afraid that the guy on the other side could just sneak up from behind. Fear is essential for DayZ, with third person, and we all know that, like 80% of that fear is gone in combat because you feel save.

 

 

Go to like 10 mins.

No f*cking way he would be able to do that in first person. And this is something you just cannot fix. As long as their is third person you will able to do this. There is no way you could restrict the third person without totally destroying it.

Edited August 31, 2013 by Wayze

[Trizzo 632]

snip

Don't need to tell me twice! I only play in FPV, I removed the view toggle key, got TrackIR and never looked back, i think i made the original thread of this exact topic which went for a similar length of thread but never made such headway (which is why i am very pleased with the signals from this thread and rocket)

 

I would pop the champane if it was gone but i'm also happy to compromise so long as most retarding aspects of the TPV are gone.

 

I don't think a switch to a FPV would even make a minor dent in the community despite the naysaying, and ultimately the bottomline for the SA*

 

 

 

* opinion I pulled mostly from my ass.

Edited August 31, 2013 by Trizzo

[Ken Bean 174]

Yahoo! We have a winner for the worst line of argument of this thread award.

 

 

Are you not able to immerse into movies or books?

 

Not?

 

Then why watching or reading?

 

Just think about and see how the "1st person = immersion" argument is nonsense.

 

Ever played Jagged Allience 2 to an extend? It can happen that if you dream or take a pie after a session you are actually thinking about how many action points you need to make your way to the kitchen. If a third person turn based game can create such a situation, then point is proven, doesn't it?

Edited August 31, 2013 by Ken Bean

[Inception. 9443]

You do not control the character(s) in a movie or a book.

 

Just think about it and see how your comparison of movies with video games is nonsense. 

The obliteration of immersion in being able to see more without moving than humanly possible in third person view is superior to that of being restricted in vision, to the extent that first person view is.

Edited August 31, 2013 by Inception.

[Trizzo 632]

Are you not able to immerse into movies or books?

 

Not?

 

Then why watching or reading?

 

Just think about and see how the "1st person = immersion" argument is nonsense.

 

Ever played Jagged Allience 2 to an extend? It can happen that if you dream or take a pie after a session you are actually thinking about how many action points you need to make your way to the kitchen. If a third person turn based game can create such a situation, then point is proven, doesn't it?

 

Here is another way to sum up the silliness of your argument/comparison.

 

You are comparing flying a RC areoplane to actually flying an aeroplane. Claiming that they are essentially the same.

Edited August 31, 2013 by Trizzo