First vs Third Person Discussion (Dslyecxi video)

[Ken Bean 174]

What about a function which zooms the 3rd person view smoothly constantly closer and closer to the character the closer you get to a struckture, like a building or a wall? The zooming could find its endpoint in 1st person view.

 

 

Edit

This only will confuse the player. Bad idea, very likely not nice to play.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Ken Bean

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

What about a function which zooms the 3rd person view smoothly constantly closer and closer to the character the closer you get to a struckture, like a building or a wall? The zooming could find its endpoint in 1st person view.

 

Did you read the first post comments from Rocket?

 

Q: What about yanking people out of third person when they get close to objects like trees, bushes, rocks, cars, trash piles, walls, buildings, etc

From a technical standpoint, this is very nasty because its going to either involve constantly polling for nearby objects and possibly raycasting also. It will have to be done serverside, adding to the poor servers increasing load. It will also result in a massive array of false positives and false negatives - as many map objects have no "object" status and are thus... not real objects to the game. I'm taking a wait-and-see approach at the minimum, at the maximum I'm proposing we put some context related limitations to 3rd person. Stance is easy to poll, and can actually be controlled in animation.

[SoulHunter (DayZ) 233]

What about a function which zooms the 3rd person view smoothly constantly closer and closer to the character the closer you get to a struckture, like a building or a wall? The zooming could find its endpoint in 1st person view.

I assume that it would be so hard to make.

 

My proposal would be putting the TPV camera at the same height of the point of the middle of the body. And reducing the angle to 30 degree. And making it 10x close to the body so people can watch their clothes as much as they want.

[Ken Bean 174]

Did you read the first post comments from Rocket?

 

I can read it as often I can, this wouldn't bring your opinion to that point to light.

 

I just try to explore your tollerance. You say what you cant accept and maybe tell why.

[Ken Bean 174]

I assume that it would be so hard to make.

 

My proposal would be putting the TPV camera at the same height of the point of the middle of the body. And reducing the angle to 30 degree. And making it 10x close to the body so people can watch their clothes as much as they want.

 

Sounds like seeing nothing. Almost funny. :)

Edited August 30, 2013 by Ken Bean

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

In a perfect world, sure, a context sensitive approach would be great. When you get close to a wall, it doesn't let you look over it, the same with corners and just about every object.

 

In the real world, I don't want a whole shit load of server workload to be taken up by the code needed to restrict third person view. If it comes down to more zombies, or features for dayz, versus fixing third person, I'll call for third to simply be removed every day of the week.

[sobieski12 835]

Maybe both types automatically go into cover near a wall or corner and have a certain pose which offers a certain view. The view is very restricted and tries to simulate real viewpoints and angles.

 

That would be why people are looking forward to the DayZ Standlone FoV slider. 

[Ken Bean 174]

In my opinion there are 3 options.

 

1. We find a compromise both factions could life with.

 

2. One of both factions doesn't get what they want.

 

3. Choice: Both types exist, there are 1st and 3rd person server, situation as it is now, maybe more 1st person server, since that view finally has been fixed in the SA and it is playable without the flaws the mod still has.

 

.. sth forgotten?

 

 

I'd vote for #3.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Ken Bean

[SoulHunter (DayZ) 233]

Sounds like seeing nothing. Almost funny. :)

You can see your clothes and your character while moving, which is all what TPVers seek from TPV, aint it ? ;)

[sobieski12 835]

In my opinion there are 3 options.

 

1. We find a compromise both factions could life with.

 

2. One of both factions doesn't get what they want.

 

3. Choice: Both types exist, there are 1st and 3rd person server, situation as it is now, maybe more 1st person server, since that view finally has been fixed in the SA and it is playable without the flaws the mod still has.

 

.. sth forgotten?

 

 

I'd vote for #3.

 

I'd go with #2

* Remove TPV

 

If you played the DayZ mod a while back, may I remind you how the community thought the game would die since rocket made the tough decision to remove "starter pistols". People would create doomsday threads constantly of how this will shift power to people killing new spawns and that it will be the end of DayZ. But alas, the game is going after a whole year. The same result would happen to removing the third person camera.

 

If we supported #3

* Then we should expect servers such as  "24/7 Day / 500+ cars / 100+ Heli / 10+ crash helis / custom military loot spawns  etcetc" in DayZ standlone.

- Choice is not always a better option.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Sobieski12

[SoulHunter (DayZ) 233]

If we supported #3

* Then would should expect servers such as  "24/7 Day / 500+ cars / 100+ Heli / 10+ crash helis / custom military loot spawns  etcetc" in DayZ standlone.

- Choice is not always a better option.

wow man,great points you make :thumbsup:

Edited August 30, 2013 by SoulHunter

[Ken Bean 174]

You can see your clothes and your character while moving, which is all what TPVers seek from TPV, aint it ? ;)

 

Yeah ^^ ... well, sooner or later you will get the function behind it. I just can point out that maybe one of the, if not the, difficulies video game ever made is an iso perspective 3rd person player game. And that seeing your character in the world not only is a barbie clothe thing. If you ever have been to a movie in the cinema, big one, like the old Indiana Jones movies, sth like Lord of the Rings or maybe Blade Runner or a film by Schwarzenegger or whatever, you can get sought in. Its not like "Huh, the movie is 3rd person, I'm not in 1st person the hero, I absolutely cant watch it..." Nope, 3rd person actually woks and even pretty well.

 

Almost every movie out there is made in 3rd person. Almost? Except films like Doom, the last minutes. And if you have a cvloser look, a film in 1st person does not work that dandy. :-/ Funny, yes, but not convincing.

 

Also games like Gothic 2 are extremely convincing. They create immersion even better and deeper than any of the *1st person supper immersive* games I played. It's like beaming your charakter into the world, rather than letting him sit outside.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Ken Bean

[Heiduk 265]

[1st person] is authentic because it forces players to act in a similar way to real life.

 

For me this is the bottom line. In the specific context of DayZ it is the type of player interactions that this implies which interest me most about the game. Maybe it's also possible to achieve with some modified 3d person view, I don't know.

 

No matter what, it seems likely that getting 3rd person right will require a nontrivial investment in development time. An investment that Bohemia has not seen a need to make up until this point. Rocket has limited resources and big dreams with lots of "wouldn't it be cool if..." scenarios. I would like to see some of those scenarios play out. So I'll repeat a suggestion I made many pages ago. Launch in 1st person and add 3rd person when it is fixed. On Day 1 you're going to be walking from Cherno to Stary anyway, might as well do it in first person.

[mercules 1290]

What do you think about my proposal at post #1452?

 

Could you life with this mechanic?

 

Point is, you wouldn't need to use it and if the other players do, would you care?

If it removes most of the exploitable issues then I wouldn't have an issue with it. I still prefer to play games in 1st person and I would in DayZ too but I feel forced to by the exploits that can be done and my friend's preferences for TPV. It looks like it might deal with the worst of them so yeah that wouldn't be all that bad, but how much effort, time, and money will they use developing that? What else could it go into improving or creating?

[Ken Bean 174]

If there's a third person in, the player char should be able to be customised. This probably helps people to identify themself with the avatar they are playing. Some seems to see the avatar as a stranger as long as they are not in 1st person. Just an idea.

 

 

 

If it removes most of the exploitable issues then I wouldn't have an issue with it. I still prefer to play games in 1st person and I would in DayZ too but I feel forced to by the exploits that can be done and my friend's preferences for TPV. It looks like it might deal with the worst of them so yeah that wouldn't be all that bad, but how much effort, time, and money will they use developing that? What else could it go into improving or creating?

 

Good news. Don't know, they seems to have the time. It's not that expensive, but time intensive. I'm certain they do test what they can. They still have to work on the netcode which will still take some time anyway, I've read somewhere.

 

I for myself would drop the 1st person entirely, at least I'd only let ironsights and scope views in 1st person in. Or inventing a 3rd person fight system. (It's a little late though)

Edited August 30, 2013 by Ken Bean

[Wayze 549]

Yeah ^^ ... well, sooner or later you will get the function behind it. I just can point out that maybe one of the, if not the, difficulies video game ever made is an iso perspective 3rd person player game. And that seeing your character in the world not only is a barbie clothe thing. If you ever have been to a movie in the cinema, big one, like the old Indiana Jones movies, sth like Lord of the Rings or maybe Blade Runner or a film by Schwarzenegger or whatever, you can get sought in. Its not like "Huh, the movie is 3rd person, I'm not in 1st person the hero, I absolutely cant watch it..." Nope, 3rd person actually woks and even pretty well.

 

Almost every movie out there is made in 3rd person. Almost? Except films like Doom, the last minutes. And if you have a cvloser look, a film in 1st person does not work that dandy. :-/ Funny, yes, but not convincing.

 

Also games like Gothic 2 are extremely convincing. They create immersion even better and deeper than any of the *1st person supper immersive* games I played. It's like beaming your charakter into the world, rather than letting him sit outside.

What the hell? xD

Comparing movies with games? Third person in movies?!

I really think you don't know what immersion means, it does not mean atmospheric. It means that you actually think that you are playing yourself, not some character. A game is immersive if you think you are in the situation which is currently going on in the game. Being in third person, you will never feel like it's you in the game. It's just your character which you have control of.

[(TMW) Marion Mic 104]

 

Also games like Gothic 2 are extremely convincing. They create immersion even better and deeper than any of the *1st person supper immersive* games I played. It's like beaming your charakter into the world, rather than letting him sit outside.

Stay out of Ghotic! You have just faced hard core Ghotic fan. I'd like it to be in 1st person. But I let it go, since it is RPG SINGLE PLAYER Single player single player ... And not just Gothic 2. Also G1, 2,... Risen1,.... Fan of developer not just game.

Stay out of Single player 3rd person game over Mzltyplayrr

f. Im drunk

[Ken Bean 174]

What the hell? xD

Comparing movies with games? Third person in movies?!

I really think you don't know what immersion means, it does not mean atmospheric. It means that you actually think that you are playing yourself, not some character. A game is immersive if you think you are in the situation which is currently going on in the game. Being in third person, you will never feel like it's you in the game. It's just your character which you have control of.

 

Nah, ever seen someone moving his body while playing a 3rd person racing game or a jump and run like Super Mario Bros? They move their body becuase with the situation, they feel like being connected. Also the folks which starts moving in movies, boosted a bit by 3d.

 

@(TMW) Marion Mic

Beans for good taste. And the 1st person preference, well, we all have our own idiosyncrasies.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Ken Bean

[Heiduk 265]

It's not that expensive, but time intensive.

 

Time is the most expensive part of software development. Furnishing an office is cheap, renting time in a mo-cap studio is cheap. Paying talented developers and artists is expensive.

[Wayze 549]

Nah, ever seen someone moving his body while playing a 3rd person racing game or a jump and run like Super Mario Bros? They move their body becuase with the situation, they feel like being connected. Also the folks which starts moving in movies, boosted a bit by 3d.

Yes, I have seen 6 years old kids doing that, but never in my life a grown up person. Super Mario Bros, who are you kidding? Nobody is jumping while playing Super Mario. You want to tell me super mario is super immersive? Yes, sure I feel everytime as if I am Super Mario, I mean totally.

What you describe has nothing to do with immersion.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Wayze

[mercules 1290]

Nah, ever seen someone moving his body while playing a 3rd person racing game or a jump and run like Super Mario Bros? They move their body becuase with the situation, they feel like being connected. Also the folks which starts moving in movies, boosted a bit by 3d.

 

 

That is a lack of hand and eye coordination. They can't translate the action and so end up swinging their body around. That is the sign of someone unskilled at video games, not proof that they are immersed in it. 

[mercules 1290]

Yes, I have seen 6 years old kids doing that, but never in my life a grown up person. Super Mario Bros, who are you kidding? Nobody is jumping while playing Super Mario. You want to tell me super mario is super immersive? Yes, sure I feel everytime as if I am Super Mario, I mean totally.

What you describe has nothing to do with immersion.

My mom used to. She would bounce the controller up every time she wanted him to jump and lean certain directions when she wanted the character to move that way. Like I said though, lack of hand and eye coordination. 

[Wayze 549]

My mom used to. She would bounce the controller up every time she wanted him to jump and lean certain directions when she wanted the character to move that way. Like I said though, lack of hand and eye coordination. 

Exactly, in a sense she is like a 6 year old, in gaming perspective.

[SoulHunter (DayZ) 233]

Nah, ever seen someone moving his body while playing a 3rd person racing game or a jump and run like Super Mario Bros? They move their body becuase with the situation, they feel like being connected. Also the folks which starts moving in movies, boosted a bit by 3d.

 

@(TMW) Marion Mic

Beans for good taste. And the 1st person preference, well, we all have our own idiosyncrasies.

Nothing other than my fingers and eyes moved while playing those games. ah.. maybe.. *coughs*  nvm

[mercules 1290]

Exactly, in a sense she is like a 6 year old, in gaming perspective.

Oh no! When my kids were 6 they played much better than she. ;)