First vs Third Person Discussion (Dslyecxi video)

[SMLE 39]

But there is different business models.

 

Appealing to a mass-market is certainly one of them.  You can go for the quick buck or play the long-game.  I'd argue BIS like playing the long game.

 

When they released Arma2 were they trying to appeal to a mass-market?  Obviously not.  Yet over time it's paid off handsomely.

 

I agree every company essentially is made to make money, but there's many ways of going about it, Rocket is also very keen to have a good reputation in the long-term by releasing a solid game.  A hardcore game too.  In the long-run that will ensure he's set for life even if in the short term it appears he could have made choices that would have reaped him quicker rewards.

Arma 2 was an average success game up untill DayZ mod came out and propelled both into the spotlight and much improved sales . That DayZ mod is one containing both view styles and many other options as well , I think that is part of the success the options .

  I agree Mr Hall has the best intentions for the game at heart but is he not an Employee ?

the bean counters hold the purse strings .

cheers

[SMLE 39]

I have been rethinking my approach to this thread and I come up with the following .
I said some ways back I like everybody else here has a vested interest in their opinions , I may have been doing a disservice to my "vested interest" by not being totally transperent .
My vested interest is a friend who is disabled and plays DayZ , my friend can only play in 3rdp view , every step you take to force people into 1st person takes away from my friends ability to play . Many other games take the disabled community into consideration when creating games why cant this game as well .
  I am only asking for choices .
cheers

Edited September 1, 2013 by SMLE

[Inception. 9443]

I have been rethinking my approach to this thread and I come up with the following .

I said some ways back I like everybody else here has a vested interest in their opinions , I may have been doing a disservice to my "vested interest" by not being totally transperent .

My vested interest is a friend who is disabled and plays DayZ , my friend can only play in 3rdp view , every step you take to force people into 1st person takes away from my friends ability to play . Many other games take the disabled community into consideration when creating games why cant this game as well .

  I am only asking for choices .

cheers

 

Why can he only play in TPV?

[SMLE 39]

Why can he only play in TPV?

I knew someone would ask but i'm sorry I am not at liberty to discuss my friends medical problems in an open forum .

cheers

[Inception. 9443]

I knew someone would ask but i'm sorry I am not at liberty to discuss my friends medical problems in an open forum .

cheers

 

Well of course someone is going to ask; being unable to play in first person due to a medical condition sounds very unlikely. But okay.

[sobieski12 835]

I have been rethinking my approach to this thread and I come up with the following .

I said some ways back I like everybody else here has a vested interest in their opinions , I may have been doing a disservice to my "vested interest" by not being totally transperent .

My vested interest is a friend who is disabled and plays DayZ , my friend can only play in 3rdp view , every step you take to force people into 1st person takes away from my friends ability to play . Many other games take the disabled community into consideration when creating games why cant this game as well .

  I am only asking for choices .

cheers

 

I've never seen someone so desperate in trying to keep this exploitative mechanic, you sir have reached a new level of being low.

* I've yet to hear of disability that can't allow players to play 1st person... 

Edited September 1, 2013 by Sobieski12

[sarkasm0 109]

I have been rethinking my approach to this thread and I come up with the following .

I said some ways back I like everybody else here has a vested interest in their opinions , I may have been doing a disservice to my "vested interest" by not being totally transperent .

My vested interest is a friend who is disabled and plays DayZ , my friend can only play in 3rdp view , every step you take to force people into 1st person takes away from my friends ability to play . Many other games take the disabled community into consideration when creating games why cant this game as well .

  I am only asking for choices .

cheers

God this is lame...

[SMLE 39]

I've never seen someone so desperate in trying to keep this exploitative mechanic, you sir have reached a new level of being low.

* I've yet to hear of disability that can't allow players to play 1st person... 

I have not lied in any of my other posts , I have refrained from telling the whole story that is all , I thought I was protecting my friend and trying to not be seen as "playing the sympathy card" . I am telling the truth , I can only hope you people are likewise being truthfull with me .

If you don't believe me fine but that doesn't change anything .

cheers

Maybe if I could speak to one the the Boss Mods of this site in private as a neutral 3rd party they could confirm what I am saying as true ?

and yes I will be accepting apologies .

Edited September 1, 2013 by SMLE

[sobieski12 835]

I have not lied in any of my other posts , I have refrained from telling the whole story that is all , I thought I was protecting my friend and trying to not be seen as "playing the sympathy card" . I am telling the truth , I can only hope you people are likewise being truthfull with me .

If you don't believe me fine but that doesn't change anything .

cheers

Maybe if I could speak to one the the Boss Mods of this site in private as a neutral 3rd party they could confirm what I am saying as true ?

That is exactly what you did.

 

If you are actually speaking the truth, then give the community a reason to believe you.

* The very least you can tell us is the disease/disability.

 

I am personally interested to hear of a disability that of which people can't play 1st person.

[Trizzo 632]

Rofl SMLE has brought this thread dangerously close to jumping the shark. A post is as anonymous as you want it to be ...you're so pathetic..."I don't want to discuss the diasability which I alone made mention of and rasied in the first place" :facepalm:

Edited September 1, 2013 by Trizzo

[SMLE 39]

That is exactly what you did.

 

If you are actually speaking the truth, then give the community a reason to believe you.

* The very least you can tell us is the disease/disability.

 

I am personally interested to hear of a disability that of which people can't play 1st person.

 

I know it is exactly what I did and I was trying to avoid it but I saw no way forward .

Im sure you are all personally interested and if I tell you you'll know but well also get floods of wood be doctor know it alls giving their opinions .

Ok this is as far as I will go , my friends Disability is mainly but not restricted to because of complications called Muscular Dystrophy .

I will not say any more but I will go through  a Mod to prove I am telling the truth .

cheers

P.S. for those interested or who would like to maybe make a donation http://mdnsw.org.au/

Edited September 1, 2013 by SMLE

[sobieski12 835]

I know it is exactly what I did and I was trying to avoid it but I saw no way forward .

Im sure you are all personally interested and if I tell you you'll know but well also get floods of wood be doctor know it alls giving their opinions .

Ok this is as far as I will go , my friends Disability is mainly but not restricted to because of complications called Muscular Dystrophy .

I will not say any more but I will go through  a Mod to prove I am telling the truth .

cheers

P.S. for those interested or who would like to maybe make a donation http://mdnsw.org.au/

 

Thank you for answering the question, now we can start a discussion on better ground.

 

Muscular Dystrophy , definition meaning "muscle failure".

 

Now here is another question.

* Since it sounds that your friend is doing fine playing with the third person camera, what is wrong if he is forced to play the first person camera?

Edited September 1, 2013 by Sobieski12

[SMLE 39]

Thank you for answering the question, now we can start a discussion on better ground.

 

Muscular Dystrophy , definition meaning "muscle failure".

 

Now here is another question.

* Since it sounds that your friend is doing fine playing with the third person camera, what is wrong if he is forced to play the first person camera?

If he trys to play the first person camera it is instant motion sickness followed by grab a bucket , huey and ralph .

Yes we have tried all the different settings for head wobble and alike , it is not just DayZ he can not play any 1st person view game . there is 1 exception and that is flight sims . I suspect it has something to do with in a flight sim you have the cockpit in front of you then the world at large beyond that , he can fly heli's and drive vehicles in 1st person view in DayZ no trouble .

I am not a doctor but maybe the muscles in his eyes are weak and they need something to focus on centre screen or else they wander causeing motion sickness , this is just speculation on my part .

 He can not even watch youtubes of people playing in first person view .

any help/sugestions would be great

cheers

Edited September 1, 2013 by SMLE

[sobieski12 835]

If he trys to play the first person camera it is instant motion sickness followed by grab a bucket , huey and ralph .

Yes we have tried all the different settings for head wobble and alike , it is not just DayZ he can not play any 1st person view game . there is 1 exception and that is flight sims . I suspect it has something to do with in a flight sim you have the cockpit in front of you then the world at large beyond that , he can fly heli's and drive vehicles in 1st person view in DayZ no trouble .

I am not a doctor but maybe the muscles in his eyes are weak and they need something to focus on centre screen or else they wander causeing motion sickness , this is just speculation on my part .

 He can not even watch youtubes of people playing in first person view .

any help/sugestions would be great

cheers

 

That is literally all you had to write really, and he is not the only one that is having this problem with motion sickness in 1st person.

* There have been many other posts similar to it, we can only hope rocket will improve stability overall with the camera.

 

No offense SMLE, but this might not even be tied with Muscular Dystrophy. 

 

As for getting motion sick, I'd say the absolute worst would be trying to ride a bicycle off-road in 1st person, yeah that is a bumpy trip...

Edited September 1, 2013 by Sobieski12

[SMLE 39]

That is literally all you had to write really, and he is not the only one that is having this problem with motion sickness in 1st person.

* There have been many other posts similar to it, we can only hope rocket will improve stability overall with the camera.

 

No offense SMLE, but this might not even be tied with Muscular Dystrophy. 

 

As for getting motion sick, I'd say the absolute worst would be trying to ride a bicycle off-road in 1st person, yeah that is a bumpy trip...

As I said I am not a doctor you my very well be correct , but I suspect it is more than just game stability as all 1stp view games cause the same effect and some of those games are very smooth .

All I know for sure is he loves DayZ and can play it fine in 3rd person thus my crusade to keep it .

cheers

Edited September 1, 2013 by SMLE

[Ken Bean 174]

Using freelook?

 

I am AMAZED at your ability to continually make poor arguments.

 

1) The current level of players playing on FPV servers only has no connection between the polls. Mosts polls ask would you care if a change was implemeneted which has no connection between current server settings. Most servers are not vanillia DayZ yet what game style is the Stand Alone trending towards? It's vanilla.

 

2) Whether it annoys you or any particular person is irrevlevent. It's about gameplay and fitting in with the antigame theme of DayZ. Infection serves no purpose other than being annoying, as do broken bones, spawning without a map etc...etc...

 

3) For the first part of your last point read the above. For second part you are essentially complaining about the FOV, which is getting changed AND if you were so inclined you could acutally learn how to change it now. So please, please, please shut up about that. It is as bad as complaining about the first person head bob, if you find it annoying fix it. Finally, struggling to pick up or find items in long grass...well i think an inventory system that autodetects makes this complaint irrevlant at least for the stand alone.

 

You seems to be one of these who constantly want the game to be more annoying until you finally stopped enjoying the game and leave.

 

But what's the point you want to make? That I make poor arguments? I didn't see any good from you lately. And now?

 

I thought we already made some progress. 3rd person stays in, it's getting tweaked a bit.

Both views are valuable.

 

1) I have no doubt that the SA will be vanilla (since vanilla means unmodded, and won't be released modded, how could it be not?) and that's a good thing I actually appreciate because I right in the moment have problems with the mod being too much modded all around.

A point we argued about something just because to argue about sth?

 

2) Getting infected or a broken bone is a feature one actually can enjoy, because it is not the default game. It can be fixed in game, it's temporary. The first person on the other hand on 1st person only server is like a broken bone from the start which can't be fixed in game. So the feature 1st person can't be compared to other game elements. Or are you someone who breaks his bones by purpose because you enjoy it that much? You probably avoid it and if so, you fix it. It's a mechanic which actually is enjoyable and makes sense. The 1st person view also is enjoyable, but like the broken bone, not for the entire game.

 

3) I'm not only complaining about the fov. The fov btw is fine, if you want to have super tunnel vision. Don't get me wrong, super tunnel vision is not bad, it's just bad all the time. I'm not complaining about the fov, I jst don't want the 3rd peron view to be removed. This is my favourite viewpoint. My second favourite viewpoint is 1st person. As easy as that. I can understand that PvP driven player see the 3rd person as an exploit and therefore this should be tweaked a bit. But I want to keep it in.

 

In my opinion btw, the ability to switch between both points of view makes the game more interesting, more enjoyable, more compelling.

 

Wait a minute! - Maybe you find the 3rd person annoying? That's good, then we have both a reason to keep it in. :D

Edited September 1, 2013 by Ken Bean

[joe_mcentire 2073]

it'S quite easy i guess. if dean wants it as authentic, as much horror, as intense and immersive as possible there would only be one option left. 

Dslyecx's video for that matter is a master-piece of plausible and simply good argumentation

i used the word "ode" before maybe i complement this with a "ode to joy" as well

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

Arma 2 was an average success game up untill DayZ mod came out and propelled both into the spotlight and much improved sales . That DayZ mod is one containing both view styles and many other options as well , I think that is part of the success the options .

  I agree Mr Hall has the best intentions for the game at heart but is he not an Employee ?

the bean counters hold the purse strings .

cheers

Yes, technically he is an employee but I'd argue that at this point due to DayZ's success it's a fairly symbiotic relationship.

 

Anyhoo, I didn't want to go too far off topic, it just infuriates me when people start talking about the business side of things when to be blunt they haven't got a clue what they're talking about.

[dgeesio 1034]

Yes, technically he is an employee but I'd argue that at this point due to DayZ's success it's a fairly symbiotic relationship.

 

Anyhoo, I didn't want to go too far off topic, it just infuriates me when people start talking about the business side of things when to be blunt they haven't got a clue what they're talking about.

simple maths !

 

people are using polls to go by yes ? to see interest in 3rd person being removed so by these very percentages it shows what you could lose potentially . now these percenetages are used they " have no idea about the business model " based on percentages given by the said polls to show indication on how 3rd vs first person is :rolleyes:

 

lock the thread then becuase its all bs ! used to inflate 1st person it must be played this way and every other way is wrong.

 

poll has been done on reddit about ten percent said they wouldnt buy the game with no third person thats going to be close to 100,000 people then if you want to use your own polls or are these polls a waste of time ? if so the whole posts polls should just be locked. even if its only 5 percent who dont buy because of no 3rd person thats 50,000 potential sales lost and thats still probably more than ricket recieved total for the whole project pay off.

 

this isnt some mega big block buster game its a mod with some finance behind it. you dont lose that much money for such little changes. its common sense.

 

as said if its all make up just lock this thread.

[wild_man 4442]

simple maths !

 

 

poll has been done on reddit about ten percent said they wouldnt buy the game with no third person thats going to be close to 100,000 people then if you want to use your own polls or are these polls a waste of time ? if so the whole posts polls should just be locked. even if its only 5 percent who dont buy because of no 3rd person thats 50,000 potential sales lost and thats still probably more than ricket recieved total for the whole project pay off.

 

 

10% guys say 'I don't buy SA if no 3rd persons' >:(  is sound like baby who don't get his way

 

but for true 99% of this baby guys buy SA after but don't say nothing :thumbsup:  :P

 

every guy who make vote is true dayz lover, is why he go forums or reddit to read about game what don't come for months

 

so maybe is only few 100's votes but is 100's core fan who make this vote ;)

 

is idiot who don't listen when 4 - 5 poll/discuss make exact same result

Edited September 1, 2013 by KoS

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

simple maths !

Good business decisions are much more complicated than simple maths, if that's all it boiled down to we could all just get out our calculators and get rich.

 

And lol at you keep wanting the thread locked.  Also, we haven't created any polls, other members have, if not my fault if you don't like them.  We could use censorship I guess and lock it all down.

 

I'm starting to think you studied at the Sergey Titov school of business practice.

 

Anyway wtf :/  I haven't even argued to have third person cam removed, I even said that'd be a stupid idea...

Edited September 1, 2013 by Fraggle

[DemonGroover 8836]

Good business decisions are much more complicated than simple maths, if that's all it boiled down to we could all just get out our calculators and get rich.

 

And lol at you keep wanting the thread locked.

 

Or just write BOOBS

[Jamz 253]

Or just write BOOBS

 

Or BOOBLESS

[Wayze 549]

@SMLE

We are sorry for your friend, but is there a third person mod in Battlefield especially made for disabled people? Listen, there are many other games he can play, but just because of him you cannot force a whole game to change.

Now, we are discussing a very core element of DayZ, which is the perspective. It does not only include the whole combat system, but also the overall player behaviour. It is something very important, which effects every single player. This is why this discussion is so important and this is also why the polls are so important. Now we just need Dean to hear us out.

I think he will try to fix the third person view, but I really think it will fail. In the end nobody will be happy, the third person players will tell you the new third person sucks and the first person players will still have the same problem as in the mod. Made at that moment Dean will realise that he wasted time, but maybe I am wrong about it and people will like the "broken" third person, because that is what it will be.

 

We will see, but I can assure you that Dean will not change the whole game just for some people who have a disease. These people are able to play other games, there is just no need to change the game for it.

[dgeesio 1034]

Good business decisions are much more complicated than simple maths, if that's all it boiled down to we could all just get out our calculators and get rich.

 

And lol at you keep wanting the thread locked.  Also, we haven't created any polls, other members have, if not my fault if you don't like them.  We could use censorship I guess and lock it all down.

 

I'm starting to think you studied at the Sergey Titov school of business practice.

 

Anyway wtf :/  I haven't even argued to have third person cam removed, I even said that'd be a stupid idea...

no im using the business percentages to show relation to the polls that are being created.

 

people are using the data to back their posts yet when the same data is related to how it would effect the game by removing the said percentage of sales its all bs or not true.

 

thats why i said lock the thread as its nothing but hierachy first person people who are right and 3rd person views are wrong which ever way they respond.

 

when you break down business its profit and loss from sales it is simple maths .

 

as said if you going to use figures (not u personally but others to try and show how  1st person is better ) then except that the same figures from said polls will effect the game sales vastly. ignoring this and saying bah blah punch calculator figures doesnt relate it does.

 

the game/mod has had 1.5 million or above so saying standalone will do one million is realistic is it not ? the simple answer is yes this game will sell atleast one million copies in novemember or dec when released.

 

if ten percent of that didnt buy the game for no third person then its a massive loss for the company . there is no calculator smart response for that its simple ! they would lose 1-2 million euros through no third person.

 

as said if you dont agree with the polls data lock the thread as said. people are using the data to try and highlight how much better first person is yet for any other related data it doesnt count ? :lol:

 

before the sales doesnt matter with game mechanics yes it does ! if it effects the games sales that big it doesnt happen period ! forget the we love pc to much bs any salesman tells you if it is that much of a sales downer (remember figures are from the games players on these and reddit forums ! ) then they wont take third person away.

 

so the whole thread is a waste of time ! thats why i said lock it off ;)

 

to break it down too much money would be lost by removing third person so that means it wont happen period.

so next best thing revised camera angles this way it wont effect sales as much but still gets a simlar kind of thing done ingame but doesnt cause the same fuss. just sort of relabling to not lose sales.

 

so the thread has shown the interest and what will happen now and prolonging the open thread is just to cause arguemnets when its already known what wont happen and what will.

 

as for you never saying removing third person would be stupid fraggle yes it would both financially and for gamers in general.

 

what i would do personally is do a skyrim style mouse wheel cycle through 1st to third lock off over the top possible exploit views.

 

before people jump on my post i love both views ! im not pro third person or first person. i use both just as much and one of the reason im not biased towards either. unlike alot of others who only play in one or the other.

Edited September 1, 2013 by dgeesio