THE ANTI GAME - STAY THE COURSE

[shadowjack 254]

This came to mind reading the thread Rocket started asking for opinions on removing the cross hairs.

I think game developers these days are too concerned with pleasing everyone and end up over soliciting the masses on what and how we want to see in a game. The result is we end up with to many dumbed down cookie cutter games. I would hate to see that happen here

Remove the easy buttons, keep the learning curve steep. Don't sell out. I came to the mod because i had the impression i would want to tear my hair out and poke cold blunt objects into my eyes trying figure out how to play. Took a good month and countless deaths before the bleeding stopped.

What i am saying is keep the vision of the anti game, stay the course. I really believe the market is there. The SA will succeed. The mod sure as hell has. Don't sell out to those that whine for the easy button. let the game be what it is supposed to be and let us players take it or leave it.

[Willard1118 31]

I agree, I won't mind losing the crosshair.

But I would mourn the loss of 3rd person.

[[Gen]Adzic 241]

Arma 2 had the most annoying UI and keyboard config tomfoolery ever in a video game, especially for a FPS... in my opinion anyway, twas a real struggle.

At first I felt overwhelmed and even somewhat annoyed, but in the end the learning curve was well worth it, now I'm used to it and 'feel the character' I don't want it to change... because I'm scared of change.

[Clumzy (DayZ) 377]

Well said, sir. Well said.

[Raithron 9]

If this game became a Call of Duty with zombies redux, I would surely stop playing. In fact another game reminds me of a COD with zombies... But I have faith that rocket will keep dayz the way it is, or better yet make t even more punishing!

[guyver1 70]

All hail the anti-game!!!

[whiteboy greg 21]

I would still have fun if I could climb ladders well and fall from 2 feet off the ground without breaking a leg.

[DemonGroover 8836]

Agree. A lot of us came here because it was different to anything else out there. It was brutal, cruel and hard. A challenge for a change.

Deviate from these and the 'game' is not the same. But if Rocket sticks to his vision, which i am sure he is, then we have nothing to worry about.

I don't think the Devs are pandering to the masses, but right from the get go they have always asked and respected the community input. In a sea of 5000 suggestions it must be hard to find some good ideas, but all it takes is one nugget of gold.

[jaymacca 52]

I hear you, but that sense of difficulty went out the door when script children started running rampant, now the difficulty lies in the challenge to gear up fully before you get killed by some random, teleporting, squeaky voiced little toad calling you a faggot.

[joe_mcentire 2074]

one BIG thing was straight ignored. dayz is/was a mod. DAYZ SA will be however a game. And now it's all bout the money, rocket himself mentioned it as i recall "money fucks things up" and this is one of the greatest challenges i think the game will face. As you depend on the "masses" you have to somehow please them...it's the nature of the beast. ;)

[Hetstaine 10852]

Agree. A lot of us came here because it was different to anything else out there. It was brutal, cruel and hard. A challenge for a change.

Deviate from these and the 'game' is not the same. But if Rocket sticks to his vision, which i am sure he is, then we have nothing to worry about.

I don't think the Devs are pandering to the masses, but right from the get go they have always asked and respected the community input. In a sea of 5000 suggestions it must be hard to find some good ideas, but all it takes is one nugget of gold.

All hail the Nugget !!

one BIG thing was straight ignored. dayz is/was a mod. DAYZ SA will be however a game. And now it's all bout the money, rocket himself mentioned it as i recall "money fucks things up" and this is one of the greatest challenges i think the game will face. As you depend on the "masses" you have to somehow please them...it's the nature of the beast. ;)

Fuck the masses :) they always get pandered too.

[terrvik 2409]

Agree, I always liked DayZ more because of what it aimed to be and had potential for rather than what it was at the moment. This was back in April when it was rather new for everyone so no wikis existed and you had to figure everything out by yourself or get help by a friendly player (were a lot more of those as well).

I think the meta gaming has somewhat ruined the experience, more so than "pandering to the masses", but the point in the first post is very valid and DayZ should definitely be the game that says fuck you to all preconceptions we have of what a game should be and how it should work. I hope that when it is released the official forums will be flooded by complaints about difficulty or rages over how unfair it is because then it has accomplished what it aimed for. :)

[radrussian1 (DayZ) 23]

Hall just wanted some input. i doubt pleasing people was in his mind at all. he likes to work with people. listening to the people who play the game is never a bad thing.

[joe_mcentire 2074]

Agree, I always liked DayZ more because of what it aimed to be and had potential for rather than what it was at the moment. This was back in April when it was rather new for everyone so no wikis existed and you had to figure everything out by yourself or get help by a friendly player (were a lot more of those as well).

I think the meta gaming has somewhat ruined the experience, more so than "pandering to the masses", but the point in the first post is very valid and DayZ should definitely be the game that says fuck you to all preconceptions we have of what a game should be and how it should work. I hope that when it is released the official forums will be flooded by complaints about difficulty or rages over how unfair it is because then it has accomplished what it aimed for. :)

...but hopefully not due to hacks and abusive admins on private servers ;)

Edited January 23, 2013 by joe_mcentire

[xx_fr0st-w0lf_xx 53]

I liked dayz

for every sniper bullet that entered my skull

for every time I got lost

for every time I was left to starve

for every traitor that back stabbed

for all the pitch black nights

for all the lonely days

for every broken leg

for every 10 km run

I thank dayz, and as much as want to punch my screen, its those moments that keep me interested in the game. I don't want to be spoon fed, every other game does that. I want dayz to remain a merciless unforgiving brutal bastard and i hope it never changes.

[Guest]

That is exactly what the problem was with halo reach, bungie spent too long on the forums asking us whether we wanted X or Y, I'm not discriminating here but a majority of users were under 15 who were absorbed by the COD v HALO battle. Look how Reach turned out, a mess because they followed the younger generation who wanted an easy to learn game.

DO NOT DO this Rocket, it will truly be the worst thing possible. DO what YOU thinks right, then let us play and see :)

Your game is only as good as the community makes it

[nikiller 122]

hi,

OP, you are 100% right. Nowadays, we see too much games who do things for the player, you push the easy button and tada! As I already posted in the crosshair topic, let's come back to real skill where you must be trained to be successful. In other words, where the player is at the center of the game. You must suck at start and when you die ask yourself what I did wrong? How can I improve to don't die the next time? You have to work to be good at something and to be valuable for the others (good shot, medic, pilot...).

Walk or die and fuck the weaker. To be clear, by the weaker, I mean people whining for a dumbed down game not the new players who are learning the game.

I remember when rocket talked about anti game with no law, no hope, violence and darkness. An anti game where you can be very happy because you ambushed a whole squad with your buddy and took their vehicles and gear and few minutes later you are mad because you are killed by a lone wolf sniper who was stalking you. That's exactly how I see an apocalypse. It's not fair, totally unbalanced, you can be the best and the following moment you can come back to the beach with nothing because you made a mistake.

There's some very good suggestions made by the community like headband lamp or manual car just to name few, but the game direction should be left to the devs's vision.

cya.

Nikiller.

Edited January 24, 2013 by Nikiller

[declan223@gmail.com 271]

I don't care what's added/removed as long as the game remains fun and enjoyable

[Very Ape 748]

'Twas a challenge that brought me here. I want more.

People forget that the challenge of this game was what got a lot of people playing. There is a market for insane difficulty; take Demon Souls for example.

Edited January 26, 2013 by Very Ape

[Nomadic Nut 70]

Couldn't agree more!

[shadowjack 254]

Agree. A lot of us came here because it was different to anything else out there. It was brutal, cruel and hard. A challenge for a change.

Deviate from these and the 'game' is not the same. But if Rocket sticks to his vision, which i am sure he is, then we have nothing to worry about.

I don't think the Devs are pandering to the masses, but right from the get go they have always asked and respected the community input. In a sea of 5000 suggestions it must be hard to find some good ideas, but all it takes is one nugget of gold.

Wasn't specifically directing my comments at the devs here but more the industry as a whole. I agree its about finding those nuggets ... long as they fit into the game plan and you don't go changing the plan to fit the nuggets.

one BIG thing was straight ignored. dayz is/was a mod. DAYZ SA will be however a game. And now it's all bout the money, rocket himself mentioned it as i recall "money fucks things up" and this is one of the greatest challenges i think the game will face. As you depend on the "masses" you have to somehow please them...it's the nature of the beast.

Yeah money fucks shit up but if u have a market and put out a good product ... The market is there for what Rocket wants to do, all he has to do is deliver. I believe he will.

[rocket 16567]

Listening to people is a very different thing from pandering to people.

DayZ as a standalone game is going to be a difficult game. It is going to be a different kind of game. What the standalone is, is the vision of a game that I had when I was making the mod. That is the game we are making.

The effect required from DayZ the mod achieved what I wanted it to. I was so personally associated with the success of DayZ, that it meant that I was seen as being the key to success of DayZ as a product. This is not the entire reality as DayZ has been a team effort for nearly the entire length of the project. But the effect of this means that I hold enough clout to force the direction I need to make it a great game. From a business standpoint I am seen as key to success of the product far beyond and above DayZ as a logo or brand.

However, I am personally aware enough to know that 80-90% of my ideas are terrible. And of the remainder at least half are unworkable. I also know enough about myself to realize that I can't really tell which are the good and bad ideas until I discuss them with someone else. It's not necessarily that the person gives me good ideas - the act of discussion is a filtering process in your own mind as well that gestates the idea and compares/contrasts it in your own mind. So discussing these ideas, and other ideas, both here and on sites like Reddit - or even simply reading peoples thoughts in NeoGaf etc... are key to my own mental processes of considering my own ideas.

I think probably, I am the luckiest person in the video gaming industry in 2012. I was given the professional "clout" to force my vision forward, without the need to submit to design by committee. But this doesn't remove discussion and discourse as being absolutely essential to ensuring I don't make colossally silly decisions again and again.

[NoyZ (DayZ) 66]

Listening to people is a very different thing from pandering to people.

DayZ as a standalone game is going to be a difficult game. It is going to be a different kind of game. What the standalone is, is the vision of a game that I had when I was making the mod. That is the game we are making.

The effect required from DayZ the mod achieved what I wanted it to. I was so personally associated with the success of DayZ, that it meant that I was seen as being the key to success of DayZ as a product. This is not the entire reality as DayZ has been a team effort for nearly the entire length of the project. But the effect of this means that I hold enough clout to force the direction I need to make it a great game. From a business standpoint I am seen as key to success of the product far beyond and above DayZ as a logo or brand.

However, I am personally aware enough to know that 80-90% of my ideas are terrible. And of the remainder at least half are unworkable. I also know enough about myself to realize that I can't really tell which are the good and bad ideas until I discuss them with someone else. It's not necessarily that the person gives me good ideas - the act of discussion is a filtering process in your own mind as well that gestates the idea and compares/contrasts it in your own mind. So discussing these ideas, and other ideas, both here and on sites like Reddit - or even simply reading peoples thoughts in NeoGaf etc... are key to my own mental processes of considering my own ideas.

I think probably, I am the luckiest person in the video gaming industry in 2012. I was given the professional "clout" to force my vision forward, without the need to submit to design by committee. But this doesn't remove discussion and discourse as being absolutely essential to ensuring I don't make colossally silly decisions again and again.

Works the exact same for me with music. I have got to bounce the feel of my tune off of my drummer to get it in perspective. That is damn near a universal truth when it comes to creativity. It produces a superior product in the end.

Thank you from the deepest part of my heart. :)

[OrLoK 16185]

Hello there

Rather than an anti game, to me the mod, and hopefully the SA, feel more like games of old (80's-90's) where your game came with a 300 page manual and all sorts of goodies and wasn't a clone of every other game out there.

It's simply a game that's not purely made for profit. That's why its a little different.

Rgds

LoK

[m.w. vindicator 880]

That is exactly what the problem was with halo reach, bungie spent too long on the forums asking us whether we wanted X or Y, I'm not discriminating here but a majority of users were under 15 who were absorbed by the COD v HALO battle. Look how Reach turned out, a mess because they followed the younger generation who wanted an easy to learn game.

DO NOT DO this Rocket, it will truly be the worst thing possible. DO what YOU thinks right, then let us play and see :)

Your game is only as good as the community makes it

I witnessed that forum go to hell during the massive CoD v Halo flame wars. I agree a community can ruin a game to an extent. I am not a developer and have no experience in that sort of thing. I admit, some of my suggestions aren't that great in retrospect. I have some faith is Rocket though. He seems to consider each suggestion very carefully.