What if we removed the crosshair?

[Nuigurumi 5]

The engine doesn't allow fake inaccuracy because the bullets come out of the barrel and are not spawned in front of the player like in other shooters. A circle won't help either because you can still use the center to aim unless you make a circle larger than a character.

Would it be possible to make the barrel sway, unless you look through the iron sights? Sort of like it is now when you're hurt or breathing heavily after running, maybe more? Keep the real crosshair, showing the exact position of where you're aiming at, so with some practice you could still develop a skill to aim with it more or less accurately, while the iron sight would still be hugely favored?

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

Aiming deadzone enforced 10% across the board.

Rocket mentioned the target of removing the HUD entirely.

I want to see it happen.

[Ansssi 184]

I'd like to have it removed. Now it's possible to hit people from several hudred meters away without aiming down the sights, which sounds quite ridiculous to me.

I don't find it too difficult to pick up items, etc. without a crosshair.

[Joe Freedom 34]

Okay, I can't hear this argument of the bullet directly shoots from the muzzle anymore without asking why's that a problem talking about cross hairs. Don't get me wrong, I am all for removing cross hairs or better, have a two step iron sight in which you have to hold down the button, slow down a bit, but can use the ch. If that's not possible, then, remove it.

But, anyway. The argument that the cross hair can't be more inaccurate because it's directly connected to the muzzle and it shoots from the muzzle. So it's a function, mathematical seen. Every value of the muzzle directly indicates a value of the cross hair. f(muzzle)->crosshair. All someone has to do to make it more inaccurate is to add a random to the function. So f(muzzle)->crosshair*rand.

Keep in mind, that's just the principle, not the solution per se. Because now, it would jump around. So basically, what we have to do is to find a system that limits the jumping around. So, based on running speed, exhaustion, etc, the rand number must be limited. Let's say, it's naturally between 0.9 and 1.1. After running, while out of breath, it's between 0.7 and 1.3. That would increase the sway.

So, back to my original question, why's the 'bullet from the muzzle' a problem?

[BCaused 49]

Aiming deadzone enforced 10% across the board.

Rocket mentioned the target of removing the HUD entirely.

I want to see it happen.

I would be up for that. However there would have to be a way to know if you are hungry/thirsty/cold.

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

Well, I'm not keen to open a new topic, but it might be worth discussing ways for our characters to display hunger/thirst etc. through body language, motion and sound.

Unless Rocket already has a handle on the basic idea, there's a decent chance, between all the minds on the forum, we might turn up something that'll be useful to development.

Just a thought.

Edited February 7, 2013 by Chabowski

[Lady Kyrah 1109]

Seeing as hip shooting without crosshair and with floating barrel is already the standard in Red Orchestra, i do not see where the problem is.

[OrLoK 16182]

Seeing as hip shooting without crosshair and with floating barrel is already the standard in Red Orchestra, i do not see where the problem is.

Unless I have the MG32 I cant hit a thing when hip firing in ro2. Let me into your secret.

L

[FlashHawk4 44]

I'd recommend making this thread into a poll, first of all, not to be presumptuous or anything.

And yes, I support removing the crosshairs. I personally play on a server without them anyway, I forget how big of an issue they are, but it takes some of the challenge out of the game. And if you haven't noticed, I think Day Z should be all about challenging gameplay.

Perhaps crosshairs would be permitted if one had a weapon with a laser sight, which would perhaps be relatively common, and (if the modular weapons suggestion is being considered) would make a nice object for veterans to trade to newbies. Obviously the crosshairs would be worse than they are now, I'm better at shooting ranges in ArmA 2 with them and not sights up to 100 yards. Not good.

But just my 2 cents

[gesundheitk 420]

If lasers are added into the game, then I'm all for it. you can't hit much in hipfire on ArmA anyways, at least not after running 10KM.

[kebman 213]

A less accurate crosshair would be nice for orientation and knowing the general direction of where you're going. The screen size for most player is probably quite large, at least on statinary PC's, while a persons effective field of view is quite narrow (I'm talking about the focus zone, and not peripheral vision). Thus having an option to heighten orientation would be nice. (Hm, and if all else fails, just tack some chewing gum on the screen, lol.)

Another argument: Last I heard the goal wasn't to make this game harder than real life (although surely it is to both challenge and frustrated players). Aiming in-game is much harder than in the real world, and takes much more effort than in the real world since there is no 3D view in the game. An aid should be given to overcome this fact. Also, in the real world you have fine control over both your hands. In-game you have to use the mouse as best you can as an intermediary.

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

Sorry to change the subject slightly. This is relevant to what I was on about earlier,

From the last blog

The current situation is “no HUD” and we hope to keep it this way, demonstrating through the use of sounds and animations. We do need to add options for those with hearing impairments and we will look at those options too.

Looking forward to seeing how our characters will indicate needs.

I take that to mean the crosshair is already gone too. So it would appear the decision has been made.

Maybe I've misinterpreted, but I consider crosshairs part of the HUD.

Edited February 17, 2013 by Chabowski

[TheG4Gaming 2]

WIN WIN situation for everyone (i guess), REMOVE the crosshairs on any normal weapons. but ADD the crosshairs to weapons with certain attachments (Laser sight?)

[phronk 9]

The only weapon I actually appreciate the crosshair for is the Crossbow, because the crossbow ironsights are extremely inaccurate. If that was fixed, then I'd say remove the damn crosshairs. No crosshair results in the requirement of more skill and immersion. Win-win really.

[enforcer1975 1111]

WIN WIN situation for everyone (i guess), REMOVE the crosshairs on any normal weapons. but ADD the crosshairs to weapons with certain attachments (Laser sight?)

Don't overestimate the laser sight, it's pretty difficult to see during a bright day and it can work both ways at night...the current IR laser sights are only of use if you have nv goggles and only good enough until you find an opponent with nv goggles.

The only weapon I actually appreciate the crosshair for is the Crossbow, because the crossbow ironsights are extremely inaccurate. If that was fixed, then I'd say remove the damn crosshairs. No crosshair results in the requirement of more skill and immersion. Win-win really.

They told about adding an aiming device for it...

[dallas 5195]

Well, I'm not keen to open a new topic, but it might be worth discussing ways for our characters to display hunger/thirst etc. through body language, motion and sound.

Unless Rocket already has a handle on the basic idea, there's a decent chance, between all the minds on the forum, we might turn up something that'll be useful to development.

Just a thought.

The tourrettes part of me wants my player unit to go "I'm hungry" yelling it louder and louder as time goes by.

I was thinking maybe hunger could be displayed by rare growling stomac, which starts when you go orange and increases with time. When you're starving you'l be growling often and have shaking hands.

-When you're cold you teeths might start to clack at orange and then a combination of clacking/shaking.

-Third maybe heavy breathing combined with periodic simulated tunnel vision in the final stage.

-Heat exhaustion maybe heavy breathing, sweat streaming down your screen in final stage.

I'd also love puking if you eat too much food and excessive shaking from too many sugar-drinks.

Edited February 19, 2013 by Dallas

[NoCreativeNames 0]

Make the crosshair wider, slightly off center (randomized every time it changes position significantly) from where your gun is pointing, and remove the dot in the middle. The crosshair should serve as a rough estimate of where your bullets are going to go rather than a measure of where they will land.

Also make a serverside option to disallow crosshairs and a clientside option to enable/disable them when possible for people who feel crosshairs break immersion and still want to play on a server that has them enabled.

Maybe make all HUD elements toggleable clientside with options to disallow them serverside.

Edited February 19, 2013 by NoCreativeNames

[fletchernut 29]

*Sees post on forum about removing chrosshairs*

Oh God, not one of these guys again...

*Sees Rocket*

FORGIVE ME.

[FlashHawk4 44]

The tourrettes part of me wants my player unit to go "I'm hungry" yelling it louder and louder as time goes by.

I was thinking maybe hunger could be displayed by rare growling stomac, which starts when you go orange and increases with time. When you're starving you'l be growling often and have shaking hands.

-When you're cold you teeths might start to clack at orange and then a combination of clacking/shaking.

-Third maybe heavy breathing combined with periodic simulated tunnel vision in the final stage.

-Heat exhaustion maybe heavy breathing, sweat streaming down your screen in final stage.

I'd also love puking if you eat too much food and excessive shaking from too many sugar-drinks.

I personally disagree with these "character cues"...it's not like you have to hold up your hands and watch to see if they're shaking to know if you're in pain, or have to check to see if your stomach rumbles to decide whether you could do with eating or not. If you're hungry or thirsty or hurt, you freaking KNOW. I don't want to have to go out of my way to try to guess my character's most basic human needs, when obviously it's even less realistic than the current system...

Do I think the current canteen-and-cutlery system is the best solution? No. But I think it should be something...well, as obvious as your own personal hunger or thirst, not less.

[thesodesa 99]

I'm wondering why you were even asking this question Rocket. No HUD means no crosshair. It's as simple as that. Just stick with the original plan and vision, and make this the anti-game it was meant to be.

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

I don't want to have to go out of my way to try to guess my character's most basic human needs, when obviously it's even less realistic than the current system...

Well, the HUD is gone. That's not even in question anymore. (unless the current method bombs badly)

I'd rather have some requirement to pay attention to our avatar's actions than a flashing indicator.

Yes, IRL you'd be aware of your wants and needs, but some sensible assumption will keep requirements in check for the most part.

Anything you don't notice will likely become more and more obvious.

In my opinion, this idea is preferable to the "human Tamagotchi" system, by a country mile.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Chabowski

[ck3 (DayZ) 6]

Like WarZ (not trying to make the two similar) you should only have it available in 3rd person.

[thesodesa 99]

Like WarZ (not trying to make the two similar) you should only have it available in 3rd person.

And make 3rd person even more over powered? :/

[Uuni 74]

I hardly think there is any need for a crosshair. Why not add quest markers for the bean cans also? It's better to never give the crosshair so they wont even miss it when it's gone

[Reed (DayZ) 0]

I dont like crosshairs, i like them even less in combination with 3rd person... it just feels wrong to sit behind a wall and see whats on the other side an maybe also shooting through when i got something strong enough.

+1 remove