What if we removed the crosshair?

[m00tley 50]

you don't.... play counter strike/bf2/cod etc to feel like a pro marksman.

when u get bored of the game doing all the hard work play dayz and enjoy the challenge of having to try

edit - and why the obsession with 3rd person, 99% of other FPS don't have it

Here we have someone who never, ever played BF3 or any Battlefield game...

Just to make my point clear: Gunfights are WAAAAAAY easier on DayZ.

Edited January 22, 2013 by m00tley

[VidKo 53]

Yes, remove it. Make it a true survival game.

[DemonGroover 8836]

Here we have someone who never, ever played BF3 or any Battlefield game...

Just to make my point clear: Gunfights are WAAAAAAY easier on DayZ.

I havent played them either. Legit question: How is DayZ easier?

[boneboys 7988]

I havent played them either. Legit question: How is DayZ easier?

Its not, BF3 has bendy bullets, you get shot around corners !

[dgeesio 1034]

bf3 is dogshit. made for console gamers.

proper fps is cs, quake 3 , cod 4 ,

as for crosshairs keep em make it serverside option .

[terrvik 2409]

bf3 is dogshit. made for console gamers.

proper fps is cs, quake 3 , cod 4 ,

as for crosshairs keep em make it serverside option .

DayZ was what made me come back to PC gaming after several years of absence and with that return I was reminded why I left in the first place: PC Gamers are the worst kind of gamers I have ever encountered. Jesus christ. Everyone keeps bashing consoles but no one can really say why. A lot of buttons on a keyboard does not make a game better and good design with fewer controls does not make a game dumbed down. Last years smartest game was on a console. Go figure.

On the topic of cross hairs again...

I have noticed that the last few months have been more and more focused on PvP and the competitive aspects of DayZ. Maybe that's why I'm bored of it. When I started it was the emotional experiences and tension that attracted me, not the gunfights and killcounts. We don't need cross hairs really, because shooting should not be what this game should be about. We do not need "good" controls or complete awareness because balance and fair play should not be the focus. The interesting things are our expectations of a game and how that is turned upside down. Or at least, that was what made me like DayZ when I first played it.

So yeah a cross hair will give more control to the gun play but I hope the emotional ride will be in focus with the violence more as a backdrop.

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

Agreed. DayZ has become PVP oriented because of the lack of thing's to do. This, over time will be addressed in the SA.

I'm not understanding peoples arguments that say removing crosshairs focuses more on PVP, if anything it makes that harder.

[m00tley 50]

I havent played them either. Legit question: How is DayZ easier?

BF3 has a good bullet deviation system (Not talking about recoil), a really good attachment system (That really impacts the way a specific gun plays), the maps are really well designed in a way that makes you have to learn some specific techniques like Peeking, High-glitching, how to counter head glitching, how to properly use a granade, really pay attention where the sound of your enemies is coming from.

CoD is more about running around like crazy and testing your reflexes, that is why everyone says "CoD kids", because it is a game where you don't actually need to think about what you are doing and what will happen next.

Arma 2/DayZ is more about patience and waiting until you have the upper hand, which is great for the grown up public and people who want something more realistic, but when it comes down to firefights, there's a lack of "depth". I'm not saying that the guns aren't realistic, but it is way easier to handle a AKM on DayZ than it is to handle a AEK on BF3. As for sniper rifles, on arma 2 it all comes down to mathematics, which is great, but makes everything way to much in a sense that is the maths are right, you just need to keep your aim steady. BF3 also has a lens glare (I don't know if that is the proper way to call it), where if a sniper is aiming directly at you, you can see light reflecting on his scope, making it easier to spot and kill him. If you simply put a mechanic like this on DayZ, 90% of the campers will be doomed.

When i engage a firefight on DayZ or arma 2, the only difficulty that i feel is the fact that i have to fight the buggy mechanics and animations on the game, whereas on BF3, the firefight comes down to the one who has a better accuracy, strategy, technique, positioning, control over the gun that the person is using. DayZ also has a really huge problem with how balanced the guns are and how the guns play.

I'm not bashing Arma 2, i'm only defending BF3 from being considered a game like Call of Duty.

PS: You can realize how harder BF3 is when you look at my friend's score, he bought the game and tried to play it, went 8/83 and never played the game again. Is is because he had crappy reflexes? Nope, it is because he didn't know how to position himself and the techniques necessary to improve at the game. You can become a better player on BF3 just by learning said techniques, improving your thought process and awareness, without even needing to train your reflexes.

Edited January 22, 2013 by m00tley

[Wili 156]

Remove it please! :)

Red Orchestra doesn't have crosshair and people doesn't have difficult time throwing grenades ,picking up weapons from the floor or attacking from melee, with a little practice all should be fine.

Maybe is good to have a little dot when using meele weapons or no weapons like in Chivalry Medieval Warfare.

Improving the door detection boxes can be enough.

Remove the ammo count too please, the Red Orchestra system is nice and realist; you just know how many mags you have left and the aproximate weight of the mag; an animation for checking the bullets inside the mag would be nice.

Hide the UI as much as possible, show the stamina only when not full (after running) etc. Hud on demand style.

[The2ndLink 156]

Remove it!

Since when is DayZ about pleasing the big player base?

There is still the term antigame I remember. This is the DayZ I want.

When removing it would help preventing Hax and would mean the gain of small performance increses... then by alll mean please do it!

Edited January 22, 2013 by The2ndLink

[Joe Freedom 34]

BF3 also has a lens glare (I don't know if that is the proper way to call it), where if a sniper is aiming directly at you, you can see light reflecting on his scope, making it easier to spot and kill him. If you simply put a mechanic like this on DayZ, 90% of the campers will be doomed.

I wouldn't say they are doomed. Everytime I used a scoped weapon, I took a look at the sun, to determine the probability of being seen through the reflection. Actually I am quite disappointed to learn right now, that there is no reflection. Arma has such a great sky movement. Is sky movement correct? I guess in Arma, the sun really revolves around the Earth. Anyway, Sun, scope, other player, angle of incoming rays equals angle of reflected rays, this would be great. Be aware of the time and direction and position of the sun. If you plan to stay for longer, find a position in the shadows. Sounds great to me.

Also rocket. Please remove the crossair and give us the ability to point at things with out left hand. We could show directions. The left hand could still move when pressing alt. It helps us finding sweet spots with ladders, doors, etc. It can help us aim the throw of a grenade.. But if you were implementing this option, do it carefully. Last thing DayZ SA needs is a video going viral of kiddies running around, pointing at each other and shouting "Heil!" in the direct voice chat.

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

I'm another vote +1 for removal of crosshairs.

Chances are, in the past 12 pages someone will have already made the most important points, so I'll avoid a speil.

I'll just rub some beans on a few deserving faces. :thumbsup:

Basically though, people should have to aim their guns if they hope to hit anything.

I'm not a PvP-seeker, but gunplay of all kinds is better without a floating icon across the screen telling you where to aim.

The HUD shouldn't tell you what your rifle is ranged to, how much ammo you have, what weapon you have equipped etc.

And it shouldn't aim for you! Those are jobs for the powers of observation we all should have!

A decent natural feeling lens-glare would be a welcome addition. Not constant, unexplainable BF3 glare, though.

Also, if setting scopes became "count the clicks + keep notes" it would feel more real, and add a bit of meta-skill.

Just my 2 pennies

[smallhil 26]

In the end it's Rockets descion to make. Remember the removal of the starter weapon many months ago the community was pretty divided over that but in the end it worked out fine IMO. A difference between the SA and the mod is that initialy there won't be any individual server owners so Rocket can set the difficulty of all the servers. I just hope there will be no nametags or waypoints, those are more of realismbreakers for me than crosshairs.

On topic, if removal off the crosshair makes hacking slightly more harder than just do it. Players will learn to cope with it. Don't let the players decide or we all be starting out equiped with NVGs, a GPS and a coyote backpack full of beanz.

[Joe Freedom 34]

(...)I just hope there will be no nametags or waypoints, those are more of realismbreakers for me than crosshairs.(...)

Well, I agree with you on the matter of waypoints, but I am not sure about the nametags. Showing name is a real game breaker. Agreed. But, meeting someone in game, finding out he not friendly, making your escape and then meeting the same guy all over again, not recognising him because his face looks exactly like all the other faces sucks, too. Okay, there are different faces, but you can rarely see a difference, even if you're standing close.

Even if these are worse than crosshairs, I couldn't think of a real way to solve that problem. Waypoints are easy. Deactivate them. Crosshair is fairly easy. Deactivate and if maybe give us a aim with our left hand animation, that can be triggered. But nameplates are hard.

[King Tubbs 224]

I ALWAYS play any game that I can with out crosshairs

The very first this I did on fallout NV, the stalkers, metro 2033 and many other games was turn crosshairs off

but the 1st week of dayz I played with crosshairs the learning curve on this game is sssooooo steep on this game that I think some severs particularly the beginner severs need them

I would like the see non crosshair severs become the norm but not for them to go totally just from 80% of servers

as for nameplates keep them but make the range MUCH shorter about 5-10 meters

[Rastamaus 323]

Well, I agree with you on the matter of waypoints, but I am not sure about the nametags. Showing name is a real game breaker. Agreed. But, meeting someone in game, finding out he not friendly, making your escape and then meeting the same guy all over again, not recognising him because his face looks exactly like all the other faces sucks, too. Okay, there are different faces, but you can rarely see a difference, even if you're standing close.

Even if these are worse than crosshairs, I couldn't think of a real way to solve that problem. Waypoints are easy. Deactivate them. Crosshair is fairly easy. Deactivate and if maybe give us a aim with our left hand animation, that can be triggered. But nameplates are hard.

Player id will be helped somewhat by the customisable outfits that will be available with the SA,

[Korben Dallas 2]

Im up for realism.. so turn off everything : no crosshairs.. no third person and no kill message etc..

[rpatto92@hotmail.com 26]

Maybe if it were disabled for weapons but not looting; as its kinda needed, in certain situations.

[Sula 1205]

Point taken, you are correct.

No he isn't. :P

Also, to those who want "true survival" how about getting off your arses and heading to the deserts, mountains and forests of the world. Leave the rest of us our crosshairs to play games!

Edit - hang on a minute! This is the mod forum, not the standalone. Are we talking about removing crosshairs from the mod? Oh FFS! I despair, I really do.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Sula

[Rage VG 4033]

No he isn't. :P

Also, to those who want "true survival" how about getting off your arses and heading to the deserts, mountains and forests of the world. Leave the rest of us our crosshairs to play games!

But the desert's over there, and I'm over here. Effoooooort.

[Joe Freedom 34]

Edit - hang on a minute! This is the mod forum, not the standalone. Are we talking about removing crosshairs from the mod? Oh FFS! I despair, I really do.

Nope, it's the SA. The topic was created by Rocket. Rocket's the mind behind the SA, he gave the developement of the mod away in favour of the SA. Also, he talks on page 3 about more recognisability for VAC. VAC is Valve's anticheating software, that will be used in the SA. The mod uses BattleEye.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Joe Freedom

[tombom 28]

i don't use them anyways so it wouldnt bother me

[boneboys 7988]

No he isn't. :P

I despair, I really do.

Be careful young Lady, I will not permit you to abandon.

[klesh 2423]

Dean, I thought hacking, ESP'ing and all the rest were the #1 concern here (from watching the eurogamer presentation you gave). In that regard, I'm all for removing the crosshairs at launch to combat this and taking time afterward to work out a different system, or see if people are using such cheats on the standalone regardless. Locking it down and trying to provide a refreshing cheater-free experience for players should be #1 priority. If surveys and feedback post-launch are saying its too difficult to aim or tents and access points are too hard to find, then consider a way to add them back in while attempting to keep their functionality out of the hands of cheaters.

From a difficulty standpoint, the anti-game shouldn't have crosshairs.

From a gameplay standpoint, crosshairs allow me to shoot like a pro in 3rd person, probably to a fault. On the flip side of that argument, if 3rd person is just another way of looking at my character through a camera, my aiming skill should be the same as if I were in 1st person... my character should have the same shooting skill no matter which way my camera is looking at him/her.

[Gabriel Ns 0]

no crosshair, but please, keep the third person vision, its awesome to know how your character looks like and its fun to walk in the woods with this