Should just military or all weapons become rare in SA?

[wolfstriked 143]

I found these posts at Reddit and am kinda amazed.Please,I just want to open up this suggestion a little bit as I think its lost somehow.

Rocket-Whats is the one thing that is most important for you as the game transitions to standalone? Please restrict to one item, and upvote if someone else has said that item.

Xkaiser-My biggest hope is that it refreshes the "feeling" when I started playing. I didn't know of any exploits, hackers didn't exist, finding a good gun was euphoria, and surviving actually meant something. I feel all the duping and abundance of things has nullified the survival feeling for me and my friends.

Evilviking-Oh man, that feeling of finding my first M16A2 after over a week of civilian weapons... amazing.

MattLightfoot-So how do you think we can achieve that?So do you think starting with the new blank database will be enough as well as us tackling hacking and possible admin abuse?

Walking into a barn and seeing 4 DBL barrel shotguns on the floor sucks.It sucks in so many ways that I am kinda shocked you do not see why.Make people search everywhere to find weapons and when that lone barn in distance finally produces a weapon it should be exhilarating.Do not just wipe database and then make military weapons hard to find but make the game harsh from moment you start.Finding your first civilian weapons should also feel great and it removes the barn in distance having flares,chemlights,sodas,beans,enfields,Winchesters and voila ur done feel that Dayz has right now.Melee weapons of varied types should be the main weapon for awhile and after a good amount of searching a civilian weapon or if your lucky a military weapon.A

I found a post by Rocket where he states that they are now making a system where items will spawn anywhere and that made me smile.There is something so kool about going into a cabin and not seeing loot piles but instead having to search for stuff.Food in cabinets,guns in drawers or under beds etc.I do think that weapons should spawn with a lot of ammo since if all weapons are rare you wanna give people stuff to shoot with.

tl:dr.....do people find the abundance of civilian weapons to be too high in Dayz right now?

[A Lumberjack 32]

My most used weapon happens to be the hatchet. I would like to see more civilian melee weapons all of which would have a particular use in mind. All could be used as a weapon and do damage at a variable amount or perhaps do a different type of damage.

However I do find it rather strange that I find 3 makarovs and a lee enfield in a school.. so yes I think it should be tweaked for more realism.

Personally, the addition of the "Woodman's Pal" would make me a very happy survivor.

[Publik 404]

Towards the end of the summer what remained of Freeside Trading Co. started working on our own version of DayZ. It used ACE and ACRE and a good 1/3 or 1/2 of the ACE guns (and radios, oh the radios). I was working on the rebalanced loot table, and what we had ended up like this:

• Changed heli-crash loot type (Helicrash) to American, which had US/EU weaponry, all your gucci M4s and so on. If you wanted a M-whatever, you had to go to a heli-crash.
  
• Barracks held nicer AKs (107s(?), AEKs, etc) and the baser ones (103, 105) but with nice or extra sights (like laser/flashlight). This alongside the crappy AKs and other military junk.
  
  • Extended barracks loot type (MilitarySpecial) to control tower and other military buildings to bring focus off NW
    

  [*]Lower military gear in tents and so on

  [*]Civilian rifles and shotguns in hunting stands (new loot category, HuntingStand) and sometimes houses

  [*]Civilian handguns in houses and stores

Ammo was rare in all cases. The division was also around 25% tracer, 50% standard, 25% split among anything special (AP, explosive). Sniper rifles had as much tracer as standard. We also had specialty weapons like the starlight (sp?) flaregun. Because of the number of different weapons and the scarcity of ammo, it was a tradeoff between hoarding all the ammo or just taking what you needed and involved a lot of changing weapons. On the topic of hoarding gear, we were using ACE so we had weight on top of the inventory slot restrictions. If you lugged around 3 guns (which was possible), you'd only be able to run so far before blacking out.

Story could support this setup as well. Eastern bloc country is one of the sites of infection or the epicenter, and US/EU helicopters are flying over for extraction missions or intel or whatever. Those are the helicopters that crash and the main source of US/EU weapons. If you want anything else you can either hunt around the military outposts for an AK or stick with civvy weapons.

The result? It felt like we were in Chernarus. If you wanted a military rifle you used an AK, because that was what you could find. In the rare case of a chopper crash, you might find an M16A2 or something, and very rarely you'd find a nicer gun. You also had to keep track of what kind of ammo you were using, because if you used tracer you'd give away your position, but in some cases that'd be all you had. For the most part, though, you used handguns since they were rather plentiful. Little 9mm's were all over the place (relative to rifles).

Among my more ambitious plans was making fuel a nearly finite resource. Fuel tanks would only fill back up at around 1L/hr, so it could take an entire day to fill up a can of gas. I'd also planned to let people siphon gas from other vehicles, pour fuel from cans to tanks, and construct fuel tanks. Vehicles themselves were all over the place, but parts were much more scarce. If you wanted to drive you had to have the resources to not only repair the thing and keep it repaired, but you also had to have the manpower to secure a source of fuel or take someone else's fuel.

I hope dearly for something similar in SA.

[ImageCtrl 719]

In the SA weapons can be in good or bad condition. So the enfild in nice condition could be better than the M16A2. I belive all is more about the condition of weapons.

Don t find atm the video where rocked toled about this.

Many military weapons could be found but in so bad condition you understand why they lay on ground.

Rocket told only about the condition of weapons, rest is my interpretation. I would love it this way.

I want the ability to shoot in a short term, maybe 1/2 houer for search if I know the map. Don t like be canon fodder for several houers.

Edited November 30, 2012 by NoCheats

[wolfstriked 143]

For me its the less weapons everywhere the better.I agree that finding the weapons in more realistic locations is warranted also but still just feel that finding any weapon should be a great feeling.This wanting or needing things is what survival is all about and we need weapons so it shouldn't be easy to find them.1/2 hour for a pistol is ok by me but you need to get inland and really move from town to town searching like crazy.

SlightlyMad,from what I read there will be a couple of new types of melee weapons.

NoCheats,there is something great about finding weapons in varying conditions BUT does that mean that weapons will be everywhere as they are now.I just do not wanna see Dayz turn into Borderlands. ;)

Publik,some great suggestions there.I like that US weapons are Heli crash only.More Soviet weapons the better IMO even though I love the M4A3 CCO.Your fuel ideas are also great and this is something that would add to SA IMO.More vehicles with the needing part being fuel makes sense to me.Also,I am a realism buff and can tell you that I would love to see stamina added in(no fainting but rather walking when exhausted)with a slower run speed to more simulate jogging.I think that Dayz should be a gear as level game but that vehicles should be on the top of that list.Right now I never bother with them since I can run like a Kenyan and the thought of needing a vehicle never crosses my mind.But if it was a pain in the ass to get anywhere in Chenarus while on foot I think this would force players to need vehicles more.Again I feel realism will bring out more immersion from forcing the players to need more items.Cokes and Pepsi's could give slight stamina boost but you still wanna find a vehicle.Bikes should be everywhere with cars and motor bikes made more common.Fix the speed of the varying vehicles in Arma2 firstly though.Hitting 100 is ridiculous on a bike.I think 20mph max on roads and 10 mph on dirt is good with X2 those speeds if on decline.Slow down that dam tractor LOL its like a race car and should be dead slow.

Edit<<<<forgot to add that I really feel that vehicles should disappear from server when you leave.This is because I hate losing a vehicle I work hard toget up and running becuase I leave it unattended on a map.Doesn't make sense that you would not be there to protect it and if cars were to become very important then players would rage quit.

Edited November 30, 2012 by wolfstriked

[Erizid 56]

I think the civ weapon balance for residential is fine. You find mostly pistols and the occasional shotgun/rifle. Barns are where the civilian imbalance is. Barns are the primary source for Enfields and Winchesters.

Personally I think Residential should be only pistols, Barns should be only double barrel shotgun and CZ550 with a super low spawn. Make Firehouses and Police Stations in the cities contain Enfields and Winchesters.

[DemonGroover 8836]

I'd like to find a weapon and think "Yesssss!!!!!!!!!" rather than "Oh, an AK-74 thats not very good, think i'll keep my Enfield."

So, yes, less weapons, less ammo. Make every shot count.

[OrLoK 16185]

Hello there

Gotta agree with DG.

I don't know what the laws are supposed to be like in the universe where DAYZ is based, but here in the UK firearms are generally rare/hard to "get at".

For eg an old pal's dad is member of a shooting club, now I think the law's has changed, but it used to be that all his firearms were locked in a super secure safe in his house and without a key, it's highly unlikely one could get at them without major power tools.

Even when I lived in S.A. all our weapons were kept in an external "cellar" which essentially was a safe built into the house as its own room.

The point being that IMHO all firearms should be uncommon and ammo more so. Military weapons IMHO should be very very rare indeed.

Shotguns/.22's IMHO should be more common, especially with all the farming community present in chenarus.

rgds

LoK

[joeoblong@yahoo.com 614]

If it is possible why not make weapons spawn lessen the more there are? Found an AKM @ 1% drop rate? Now it is at a .75% drop rate. AS 50 @ .01 drop rate? Once found it will drop to a .009 etc.

If it was possible all loot on a diminished scale would work wonders. Jump a server? Fine your weapons and equipment effect that server now.

Although I doubt this is possible, I would enjoy a system where the more of something there is the less likely it'll spawn.

[MakeThemListen 51]

Hello there

Gotta agree with DG.

I don't know what the laws are supposed to be like in the universe where DAYZ is based, but here in the UK firearms are generally rare/hard to "get at".

For eg an old pal's dad is member of a shooting club, now I think the law's has changed, but it used to be that all his firearms were locked in a super secure safe in his house and without a key, it's highly unlikely one could get at them without major power tools.

Even when I lived in S.A. all our weapons were kept in an external "cellar" which essentially was a safe built into the house as its own room.

The point being that IMHO all firearms should be uncommon and ammo more so. Military weapons IMHO should be very very rare indeed.

Shotguns/.22's IMHO should be more common, especially with all the farming community present in chenarus.

rgds

LoK

Well that is fucking boring. Let's make it where there are no guns at all and we are in a U.K. simulator where we all have billy clubs and dildos, that's it. Stupid. We, in the rest of the world, have guns. And Chernarus isn't in the U.K.

[Publik 404]

If it is possible why not make weapons spawn lessen the more there are? Found an AKM @ 1% drop rate? Now it is at a .75% drop rate. AS 50 @ .01 drop rate? Once found it will drop to a .009 etc.

I can actually answer that. The weighted loot spawn system they're using only has an accuracy of 0.01, so 0.01 is as rare as it can physically get. I'm not actually sure if values >1.00 are accepted; I think that check was commented out of the code I looked at. I've posted on the suggestions forum a fix for it that can support any spawn rate and does so more efficiently, but I've been told that it's "in the pipeline to be fixed". For SA it should be fixed and loot can have a higher spawn accuracy (or if it isn't I'll be confused. I posted the fix some 3 months or so ago before dropping DayZ for school).

billy clubs and dildos

Edited November 30, 2012 by Publik

[Mr Nasty 1023]

Military weapons should spawn less. Conflicted on civilian weaponry until I can get a better idea of how much of a threat the revamped zombies are.

[wolfstriked 143]

I have never saved anything in a tent in Dayz.If all weapons were super rare then I would start saving them up.

[DemonGroover 8836]

Well that is fucking boring. Let's make it where there are no guns at all and we are in a U.K. simulator where we all have billy clubs and dildos, that's it. Stupid. We, in the rest of the world, have guns. And Chernarus isn't in the U.K.

I dont really think you speak for the rest of the world. I dont know where you are from but guns arent found on the floors of barns where i'm from.

Sure it is a game, but the point of DayZ is authenticity and in that regard there are too many guns and too much ammo. Limit this a little and make finding a gun worthwhile.

[Sutinen 635]

Yeah, I don't want it to be like "An AKM for the fourth time? Bleh, I'm looking for a DMR."

I want it to be like "An AKM? FUCK YEAH"

[dgeesio 1034]

if you going for realistic there shouldnt be hardly any guns at all

most people would be using axe , swords , metal bars , baseball bats , mechetes , knifes , spikes / spear ,

guns that would be in would be rifles or shotguns pistols.

as50s and such tbh shouldnt be in the game all they do ingame is male people lie on belly somewhere camping new spawns.

[bigdogsco 143]

I would be interested to know how many weapons are actually in existence on a single server. If its comparable to what could be found in an area of similar size to chernarus then surely this whole topic is a moot point? Remember this is meant to be an apocalypse. Weapons etc would not be static and would move from hand to hand as people are killed or abandon the area.

[Rifle Eyez 34]

Am I the only one in support of higher tier weapons? I would find people running around with hatchets, melee weapons and old school hunting rifles that take in game hours to maintain boring. I'm all for realism and agree ghillied up, thermal scopes and 50 cals behind every corner isn't realistic however there's a balance between being realistic/grinding/FUN. If there wasn't duping/scripting in I think with a few tweaks the balance would be fine. I don't have 12 hours a day to grind finding weapons in game. I hope and pray the standalone doesn't favour tedious survival over fun.

Just like to add i've never gone back south to ''sit and snipe newspawns'', just feel it would upset the balance if guns were rare. Even reading this thread i'm scared people want things that sound good ''in theory'' but won't be FUN. Bikes should go @ 10mph for realism? Jesus. This isn't The Sims.

Edited December 1, 2012 by showtime

[Anton17 97]

Just think of how it would be if it actually happened... finding an AK in your Supermarket? Yeah, maybe in America but for the rest of us a gun would be rare as fuck, even some poor pistol. Most common weapons would be melee, not even a hatchet... a baseball bat or a steel pipe, hammers or DIY equipment would be the most popular find in suburban towns. I don't wanna promote the cliche of zombies and chainsaws but you gotta ask yourself, would you be finding one of those or a .50cal down your local street? Yeah, sure.

PVP is a huge part and those items need to be there but its a little bit old to see the same people with the same weapons doing the same things. Scarcing down on things and making more starter/mid-game items more varied and different combat mechanics would really spice things up and take out so much of the talk about difficulty, PvE and general survival that the game is about. All the other arguments can be solved completely or partially by adding more of a gear curve and variety. Seeing people running around with Power tools, baseball bats, your kitchen sink taps and throwing stero speakers would make starting so much more interesting than bambis running around with hatchets and Makarovs all day long. Throwing items, think about that. Instead of shooting down the hospital windows, throw a garbage can through the window... that's what would happen. The mod is restricted but the standalone isn't, all these things can be added as long as physics is present and if you can get the pathing right. The main aim right now is to get a gun and Rambo or defend when it should be to survive. Running around with the fork from the fireplace would make you empathise a lot more with the player and the immersion would be full-on as well as making the game have SO MUCH MORE variety. The main hassle is starting off because all you want is a gun; make them rarer and give alternative options would make you and others play differently and make finding a gun just like old times and probably encourage people to team up a bit more, as well as engage on someone that actually has firepower. A coordinated steel pipe and baseball bat frenzy on a military loaded guy... think of the moments!\

Yes guns should be made rare with a higher curve of power and availability but to do this you need variety in the start game as well as melee variety. Going on a hatchet rampage is fun but we've all seen it so many times... imagine those bambis actually looking and PLAYING DIFFERENTLY. Chaos effect, man. Change a little, change a lot.

[Askar 177]

Am I the only one in support of higher tier weapons? I would find people running around with hatchets, melee weapons and old school hunting rifles that take in game hours to maintain boring. I'm all for realism and agree ghillied up, thermal scopes and 50 cals behind every corner isn't realistic however there's a balance between being realistic/grinding/FUN. If there wasn't duping/scripting in I think with a few tweaks the balance would be fine. I don't have 12 hours a day to grind finding weapons in game. I hope and pray the standalone doesn't favour tedious survival over fun.

Just like to add i've never gone back south to ''sit and snipe newspawns'', just feel it would upset the balance if guns were rare. Even reading this thread i'm scared people want things that sound good ''in theory'' but won't be FUN. Bikes should go @ 10mph for realism? Jesus. This isn't The Sims.

Personally, I'd love to see military weapons outright removed, or at the very least made so rare that many people would never see one. I don't want a game where people run around with assault rifles/sniper rifles killing each other haphazardly. There are literally hundreds of FPS games that suit that playstyle already. Hell, just go play ARMA II with no rules on a server set in Chernarus and you can do that.

I'd love to see civilian weapons become more than ninety nine percent of the weapons players use, while at the same time becoming extremely rare. A weapon should be the best damn thing you ever find in most lives, whether it's a hatchet or a crossbow or a double barrel, or any of the other 'cheap' weapons that would need to be added, you should feel excited and want to hold onto that markarov for dear life. That's the premise DayZ was originally working towards, albeit in an unrefined manner that has led to a number of problems now. In the Standalone, I see Rocket getting the game back on track with his vision as somewhat of an 'ultra-realistic survival zombie "anti-game".' So yeah, maybe we'll see bikes going ~10 mph. And I'm sure that'd be okay with many people, because that's the type of thing that draws people to this game. It may be a big deathmatch now in many respects, but noone starts playing DayZ to play a deathmatch. They hear about a realistic zombie survival game and they go from there.

Perhaps you don't find that fun, but it has been made very clear that a great many people do want that. This entire undertaking sounded good 'in theory' to Rocket. Guess what? People also found it fun! ;)

Edited December 2, 2012 by Askar

[diddi 35]

They should add gunstores in the larger cities and random supply drops. Or hidden loots stashes with gps, and you need a tracker to find it properly (its camoflaged, dug down in the ground.) etc.etc.

[xx_fr0st-w0lf_xx 53]

I want all weapons to be more scarce along with ammo in 15 minutes I find a weapon plus all the food and water I need

[fresh (DayZ) 10]

lootmaps ruined the game.

[Sutinen 635]

The military loot should also be removed from industrial buildings and some tools/melee weapons and parts should replace them. If anyone has found M107 mags in a construction site in real life, I'm impressed.

The supermarkets having revolvers and 1911's is also kind of weird. We will probably see more specific building types in the Standalone though, which could have handguns in them.

There should be some more low chance military loot spots, but not a lot of them. A few random small military camps found between the coast and the inland would be good. This is because I want the military weapons off the deer stands.