New Dev Blog Report: November 2012

[djcounta101@hotmail.com 3]

BIG IT UP!!!

[sniperdoc 251]

Valve probably is the best company in the world. Look it up at what they do, how they treet their employees, their working scructure, company vacation, family treatment... and Steam is awesome too. Stop bitching, never-satisfied children.

#1 I'm probably older than you are.

#2 The fact people LIKE Steam shows how much they read a EULA or SSA and care nothing about consumer rights.

I like Valve, however I don't like how they treat their consumers and consumer rights. Their ToS and legal structure of the EULAs basically hold gamers hostage.

Nowadays even if you purchase a physical game at a store, you're required to sometimes use Steam to access your game. If you stop agreeing to their hostage-taking-terms at some point... what then? You've purchased a hard copy of a game but you won't be able to play it. Hardly fair for the consumer.

With Steam/Origin/uPlay it's about holding gamers and their PROPERTY hostage. Note, the LICENSE is their property. However, you can't use your license if you disagree with their terms.

@WargameKlok:

Would I like to play DayZ Stand-alone? Yes.

Would I buy it? Absolutely!

Would I buy it on Steam. No!

I do not condone any company that essentially negates any consumer rights whatsoever, and that is precisely what Valve does with Steam, EA does with Origin and Ubishaft does with uPlay.

Edited November 29, 2012 by sniperdoc

[kovy 0]

I do not condone any company that essentially negates any consumer rights whatsoever, and that is precisely what Valve does with Steam, EA does with Origin and Ubishaft does with uPlay.

I'm curious to hear your solution then!

[McTwitchy 6]

#1 I'm probably older than you are.

#2 The fact people LIKE Steam shows how much they read a EULA or SSA and care nothing about consumer rights.

I like Valve, however I don't like how they treat their consumers and consumer rights. Their ToS and legal structure of the EULAs basically hold gamers hostage.

Nowadays even if you purchase a physical game at a store, you're required to sometimes use Steam to access your game. If you stop agreeing to their hostage-taking-terms at some point... what then? You've purchased a hard copy of a game but you won't be able to play it. Hardly fair for the consumer.

With Steam/Origin/uPlay it's about holding gamers and their PROPERTY hostage. Note, the LICENSE is their property. However, you can't use your license if you disagree with their terms.

@WargameKlok:

Would I like to play DayZ Stand-alone? Yes.

Would I buy it? Absolutely!

Would I buy it on Steam. No!

I do not condone any company that essentially negates any consumer rights whatsoever, and that is precisely what Valve does with Steam, EA does with Origin and Ubishaft does with uPlay.

I personally like steam for the ease of access and if my computer crashes. I'm horrible at finding discs. But Hey man to each his own, interesting point btw.Anyways I'm sure they'll be a site selling DayZ SA just like Arma 2. You'll just have to update it yourself. I'm sure it'll be easier then modding Arma 2 to old school DayZ.

In regards to the ToS or EULA. There's just that agree button that makes it go away. I can sleep at night.

Edited November 29, 2012 by McTwitchy

[sniperdoc 251]

I'm curious to hear your solution then!

My solution? I don't have all the answers bud. Plus, I don't get paid to answer those questions either... and Steam isn't the only content delivery system in existence mind you. The developers working on this stand-alone have way more contacts in the industry than I could hope to ever have. However, GOG and StarDock are content delivery systems and they are not as restrictive as the aforementioned types.

In regards to the ToS or EULA. There's just that agree button that makes it go away. I can sleep at night.

This is precisely why consumer rights in the United States don't exist...

I'm just trying to advise people to open their eyes a bit, to not just agree to everything out there so blindly. Comments like McTwitchy's really are the focus point in why entertainment software consumers are in the pickle they're in and it is ALSO why companies like THQ are about to go bankrupt.

You guys might not think that clicking a simple little "I agree" without caring what you're agreeing to matters... but it does.

Edited November 29, 2012 by sniperdoc

[the horror 262]

Since ARMA I and II is already on steam it makes sense for Day Z to be so too as it's by the same dev.

[eggmoe 1]

I know you're concerned with game architecture at this point, but I've been curious; will Standalone feature the new lighting and movement animations from ArmA 3. I'm really hoping for that new "combat pace" and better animations.

[rocket 16567]

I applaud anyone who stands up for their consumer rights, and I it is important customers vote with their wallets for what they believe in.

From my perspective, unfortunately this decision is not just about digital content distribution.

We've dropped Gamespy for our server browser management (for reasons I hope are painfully obvious). We're using steam not just for it's delivery system but because we are able to integrate it entirely into our pipeline. It is the only method we can use, which allow us to hit something earlier than a Q3 2013 target date.

For the record there has been no pressure, not one iota, from Steam to go exclusive or even to release on Steam. They've simply said they love the game, and asked for any advice of things they could do better. We told them, and they listened, and what we have ended up with is the most impressive build pipeline I have ever worked with. Prior to this, I was not really that into Steam. I was keen for us (BIS) to sell through the BIS store, as then we would keep all the money. But this system, it allows us to push out updates instantly. It means we don't have to worry about anything except making the game. So this is a decision that I supported fully, and wasn't initiated by Steam. To be honest, dealing with Steam has really been like dealing with a company about 5 people in size - it's all very straightforward and not complex for me, it's personal and it's been focused on what we want to do for development.

In the final analysis, it really now comes down to what is possible. There is no way we could release this game in 2013 (let alone this year), if we had to create all these aspects ourselves. We would still be constructing our build pipeline right now. So it doesn't matter if GabeN turns up on the cover of PCGamer in a photo of him consuming the souls of small children - if the game is to release anytime in the near future it stays on the course it is on. It's committed. As a leader you have to make tough calls, and this is a call I made. Our CEO came to me and asked me what I thought - and I weighted it up and made the decision. I still think it is the best decision, even though it goes against those who don't want to use steam.

Sure, the game could handle a delay. I totally believe DayZ could schedule itself for 2014 and it will sell fine. But I won't be fine. I've been doing this, every day, every night, weekends, etc... since March. At the pace that I am working I am on borrowed time, and I don't want to waste that time on developing a content delivery system or negotiating with someone I haven't worked with and who has a strong relationship with our studio.

I hope this doesn't come across as me trying to convince anyone that they should use Steam, I'm simply trying to provide some background on why the decision was made, and why there is no possibility of it being changed now.

[hawc 63]

Question for rocket:

Could you explain the less clunky controls? Does that mean it will be more arcadey ? (like someone said earlier, 360 noscope)

Really sad about steam-only. But I guess paying valve is cheaper than buying new infrastructure.

Valve probably is the best company in the world. Look it up at what they do, how they treet their employees, their working scructure, company vacation, family treatment... and Steam is awesome too. Stop bitching, never-satisfied children.

Thats true but how to they treat their costumers? *hint Episode 3

[SmashT 10907]

I know you're concerned with game architecture at this point, but I've been curious; will Standalone feature the new lighting and movement animations from ArmA 3.

As far as lighting goes, Rocket touched on it on Reddit and Twitter briefly.

We were talking about this today actually. Obviously lighting is an important issue. But it is not an immediate (initial) concern

I think our lighting needs to be improved drastically though, we are looking at what the ArmA3 team has done (which is great)

I assume they will look at it at some point next year. That's something I hate about ArmA2, the unrealistic glare especially.

Edited November 29, 2012 by smasht_AU

[markva 0]

I have a question regarding vehicles and helicopters in the standalone game. I know it might be a bit early on in the development cycle for this, but I'd love some more intel on this regardless!

My question is, to what degree can we modify what and what amount of vehicles/helicopters appear on our server. For example, in the current DayZ build of 1.7.4.4., we are limited to three types of helicopters. As in the standalone all decisions will be made server-side, this means that vehicles no longer have to be banned client-side, which would also mean that we can add in any vehicle we'd like. That is, if they're included in DayZ itself. How many vehicles will be included in the standalone, and will server hosts get a wide array of vehicles to choose from?

[elmendatfc@hotmail.com 18]

Rocket, so I guess there will not be any public hive in the standalone? I like that, private hive servers are the best way to fight hackers. I hope you give server admins the tools to manage their servers and to fight hackers.

Right now in DayZmod, only servers with a whitelist are playable. You need to trust server owners, sure some of them are assholes, but I believe that most of them want the best for the game and they will act correctly with the hacker issue.

Maybe you could create a server reputation system or something. So if a server owner is behaving badly with players, they can go somewhere and report him.

Edited November 29, 2012 by MrKalimotxo

[The Power Nap 21]

Rocket,

Are vehicles going to be in the Foundation Build initial release at all? Or are you going to leave them out until the related mechanics are polished?

In respect to Arma 2 glare:

It's like Steven Spielberg took control of my eyeballs and set them to fuzzy nostalgia. I keep trying to wipe the Vaseline off my monitor to no avail :)

[Mandalore (DayZ) 76]

I applaud anyone who stands up for their consumer rights, and I it is important customers vote with their wallets for what they believe in.

From my perspective, unfortunately this decision is not just about digital content distribution.

We've dropped Gamespy for our server browser management (for reasons I hope are painfully obvious). We're using steam not just for it's delivery system but because we are able to integrate it entirely into our pipeline. It is the only method we can use, which allow us to hit something earlier than a Q3 2013 target date.

For the record there has been no pressure, not one iota, from Steam to go exclusive or even to release on Steam. They've simply said they love the game, and asked for any advice of things they could do better. We told them, and they listened, and what we have ended up with is the most impressive build pipeline I have ever worked with. Prior to this, I was not really that into Steam. I was keen for us (BIS) to sell through the BIS store, as then we would keep all the money. But this system, it allows us to push out updates instantly. It means we don't have to worry about anything except making the game. So this is a decision that I supported fully, and wasn't initiated by Steam. To be honest, dealing with Steam has really been like dealing with a company about 5 people in size - it's all very straightforward and not complex for me, it's personal and it's been focused on what we want to do for development.

In the final analysis, it really now comes down to what is possible. There is no way we could release this game in 2013 (let alone this year), if we had to create all these aspects ourselves. We would still be constructing our build pipeline right now. So it doesn't matter if GabeN turns up on the cover of PCGamer in a photo of him consuming the souls of small children - if the game is to release anytime in the near future it stays on the course it is on. It's committed. As a leader you have to make tough calls, and this is a call I made. Our CEO came to me and asked me what I thought - and I weighted it up and made the decision. I still think it is the best decision, even though it goes against those who don't want to use steam.

Sure, the game could handle a delay. I totally believe DayZ could schedule itself for 2014 and it will sell fine. But I won't be fine. I've been doing this, every day, every night, weekends, etc... since March. At the pace that I am working I am on borrowed time, and I don't want to waste that time on developing a content delivery system or negotiating with someone I haven't worked with and who has a strong relationship with our studio.

I hope this doesn't come across as me trying to convince anyone that they should use Steam, I'm simply trying to provide some background on why the decision was made, and why there is no possibility of it being changed now.

Don't pay too much attention to people whining all the time. I was a bit reluctant about joining steam 7 years ago because it was "the unknown". It has been a great service all those years and is always improving.

It has never let me down and it certainly isn't an obstacle. Anyone who would call himself a pc gamer has a steam account, hell, even pirates have steam accounts. People whining about the standalone being steam only are just whining for whining's sake - don't read too much into it.

I think it's a great idea, I know people over there take their work seriously and their efforts are both to make (your) job(s) (in this case) easier and keep their clients happy by giving them a handy interface. The fact that I can use steam's assets while playing the standalone is a big plus for me and if it also helps you minimise the amount of time needed to get the game and the patches distributed it's a win win. That means that you will have more time to work on other things and/or the game will be ready for a release sooner.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Mandalore

[finkone 320]

Steams not bad - I hear bad things about their anti-cheating, but thats all I hear... is bad things, I've never seen bad things. I used steam all the time, and have a few accounts with him. Steam makes it painless to get the product you want when you want, and updating is no problem. Steam is rarely down for maintenance.

[$able 257]

[...] the punishment is a lot more severe than a BE Global Ban which only means you need a new key.

Wrong, if BE was used in DayZ on Steam its global bans would have the same effect as VAC bans. There won't be any cd-keys in DayZ and therefore the whole Steam account (in effect the SteamID) would be banned from BE servers as well.

[hawc 63]

I guess you didn't really read why people hate steam.

[griffinz 2816]

Steam's fine, I've personally used it for roughly 5 years now and not had a single issue.

[Sula 1205]

Fraggle, yes any digital download company would be the same, which is why some people prefer had copies but they too have pros and cons. I focused my comments on Steam because it is the chosen delivery method, and because of my day-to-day use of it, which has resulted in my holding ambivalent views. But as I said in my previous posts, I am not against Steam. It makes sense to use it, I can see that. It's quick, effective and efficient. :thumbsup:

No, I don't think you can simply use Steam to download the game and then not use it to play but as I said, I'm a layman not technical, to be honest. But there are things I can't do with Steam that I know LVG can. He often snorts and mutters "noob" at me for not knowing how to do things like turn on privacy settings. :D

I spent a number of years working on software development projects, in roles including change manager, and technical author. One thing I learned was, change is inevitable. It's perfectly natural to resist change but the sooner you can accept change and get used to it the better because resistance truly is futile and won't make anyone happy.

Hmm, interesting. I guess whatever supplier they used the broadband issues would remain the same though. Supplying a hard copy would introduce a massive cost (logistics) that we the consumer would have to pay for.

Also, I'm not that knowledgable about Steam but can't you use them to download it and then run it seperatly like any other game? For me the main good aspect about using Steam is how easy it'll be to keep rolling out the patches. Considering the SA will be under heavy development for the next year after initial release keeping everyone up to date will be pretty crucial. The fact that the devs can just roll out a patch with one mouse click wiegh's heavily in Steams favour.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Sula

[lvg 1690]

Steam's fine, I've personally used it for roughly 5 years now and not had a single issue.

Same, personally I love steam it's my most used Program, and the fact DayZ and steam are now integrated makes it even better for me.

Sula is a noob.

[SmashT 10907]

I only wish they would let me change my account name. Stuck with an email address I haven't used in almost 10 years.

[lvg 1690]

I only wish they would let me change my account name. Stuck with an email address I haven't used in almost 10 years.

You can Change your email address, if your old Email is dead or unused.

[WargameKlok 166]

Howsabout we start a seperate topic for Steam Hate/Love since it's a moot point! I've not seen a reply to my question about Pussy Wheel integration because it's buried by all this Steam crap :(

[SmashT 10907]

You can Change your email address, if your old Email is dead or unused.

I'm talking about my username/login, early steam adopters (2002-2003 etc) could only use an email address as a username and that can't be changed currently.

http://steamunpowered.eu/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/tFER4.png

Edited November 30, 2012 by smasht_AU

[waffen-79 32]

I'd like to know the answer to this too!

I also like to know the answer to this

are they using skins?

or real morph-able characters?

conforming clothes?