Standalone Poll: First Person Only?

[GeneticFreak 23]

I agree that DayZ should be first preson only, since third person takes away the "fear factor" for example

- look-or-not-look around that corner? go to third person, problem solved

- any zombies around or behind me while i'm running? go to third person...

- hear strange sounds? go to third person...

3rdp has took away most of the immersive factor in the game

[MarcDaKind 37]

My decision to play this mod was based on some let's play videos of it I saw on Youtube. One of my first reactions to what i saw was something among the lines "wow, finally a cool third person shooter for online play", so yeah, if the third person view goes, so do I (and frankly, I don't think I am the only one).

If you started to play DayZ because you wanted a "cool third person shooter", you missed the point of the game and shouldn't really have much say on this forum IMO. :huh:

No offence of course, we are all different people that look for different thing in our games.

Edited December 24, 2012 by MarcDaKind

[Whaddapitty 1]

So....the game that allows third person by default and is played that way by a significant part of the community is considered a FPS game now?

Edited December 24, 2012 by Whaddapitty

[Ratsmon 131]

You have an excellent point but I kinda like having the freedom of us having the abilities to choose between 1st person shoot and 3rd person shooter. Why? I dont realy know, it just.. fits? If you're so desperate to play in 1st person then just do. You cant controll others. I.E You cannot change other people, you can only change yourself :)

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

This discussion isn't going anywhere because, clearly, "sensible", "rational" and "logical" are foreign concepts to many.

The game is the first in a new franchise, you do not know how it's supposed to be played. It isn't even out yet. Get a grip.

It really wouldn't bother me either way. While I know which I'd prefer, it's not up to me. A "suggestions" section in a forum doesn't make the game's design a democracy.

The FPS-only bitchers on here would struggle to even fill a single server. No need to cry about it.

The hypocrisy some of you fellas spout is ridiculous. If you're adamant all the "same-old" arguments are used up, keep your trap shut. Simple as.

Que Sera, Sera.

[WiFiN 55]

OP, do you even poll?

And yeah, it's not about what kind of game it is - FPS or whatever you want to imply to save your TP camera. What is important - this game is about survival. One of the cornerstones of survival is seing your enemy before sees you. Thus TP camera lets you cheat by looking around the corners without even getting close to them, let alone the ability to look over like they are not even there. You are FORCED to use TP camera, as otherwise (if you use FP-only) you'll die due to having less combat information than your cheating TPcamera-using opponent has. I want to dfeel immersion - peek around the corners to see the enemy, sneak along the walls and fences, but I HAVE to use TP just to stay alive.

FP needs some tweaks, but it's the only way to play such game. The only place for TP is a campfire so you can cherish your gear and enjoy the whole view.

[Heiduk 265]

While I know which I'd prefer, it's not up to me. A "suggestions" section in a forum doesn't make the game's design a democracy.

Well said, we may be on opposite sides of the 3DP On/Off debate but I completely agree with you here. Assuming Rocket et al. have a clear vision of what the game should be, which I think they do, these sorts of settings should be design decisions. Things like 3DP, radar dots, and waypoints fundamentally affect how the game is experienced. If they want that experience to match their vision these settings are to important to be left up to internet popularity contests.

[enforcer1975 1111]

Exaclty...if he has a vision on how the game should be played he shouldn't always listen to others who want it easy if he intends it to be difficult...in the end they still buy the game anyway - proof is the CoD franchise that releases the same game and graphics with the same shiity gameplay ( press e for effects, don't run over uneven tiled floors or you die ) where so many complain yet it's always bought by the millions...

[MarcDaKind 37]

So....the game that allows third person by default and is played that way by a significant part of the community is considered a FPS game now?

My point was that Dayz isn't aiming to be a "cool modern military shooter (FPS or TPS)", it's foremost designed to be an authentic and immersible survival experience. So if you are looking for a arcady shooter, DayZ might be the wrong game for you.

The FPS-only bitchers on here would struggle to even fill a single server. No need to cry about it.

The last thing this thread needs is people posting straw man arguments.

Edited December 25, 2012 by MarcDaKind

[Smirl 13]

the devs kept it in-game for a reason, because its more realistic with a 180 view. For me, I cannot stand First person and it drops my fps like crazy.

[Whaddapitty 1]

... an authentic and immersible survival experience...

is exactly what I am looking for. Also realism. But having to look around a wall to see what is behind it doesn't seem to be very realistic. I am thinking of the actual ingame walls, which I estimate to be around 2 meters high (~6.5ft.), so "in reallity" I could easily spot whats behind it by simply standing on my toes, my backpack or a dead zed or even chin the wall to take a brief look, all of which with less exposure than looking around the corner. So please, I am serious, explain why having to show my face and gun to see behind an obstacle is considered realistic? This is a game after all, and since the engine does not support any of the methods I mentioned, enforcing first person for the sake of realism....well....seems wrong...

Edited December 25, 2012 by Whaddapitty

[WiFiN 55]

is exactly what I am looking for. Also realism. But having to look around a wall to see what is behind it doesn't seem to be very realistic. I am thinking of the actual ingame walls, which I estimate to be around 2 meters high (~6.5ft.), so "in reallity" I could easily spot whats behind it by simply standing on my toes, my backpack or a dead zed or even chin the wall to take a brief look, all of which with less exposure than looking around the corner. So please, I am serious, explain why having to show my face and gun to see behind an obstacle is considered realistic? This is a game after all, and since the engine does not support any of the methods I mentioned, enforcing first person for the sake of realism....well....seems wrong...

Those concrete walls you see in the game most of the time are 3 meters high, so you'll have to pull up to see at least anything, exposing your head if you chin, or half of your head if you pull up to the eye level.

Thus you would actually EXPOSE yourself to anyone behind it.

So you can't bargain out current third person camera this way. Also, peeking around the corner of an obstacle exposes you significantly less than peeking over it.

[silent sniper 18]

I really think 3DP needs to go. I remember playing on a forced FP server and getting shot at from the forest while running to a barn,

Now if I was playing on a 3DP server I could just scan the forest for this guy lean out and plug him in a heartbeat, thus making his awesome position null

But I had to lean out to get him to try and fire to try and see where it was coming from, yes I died eventually, but he had outplayed me and deserved it.

Why should bushes be made even more useless for Ghille guys?

The argument shouldn't be about 'I could do this IRL' the fact of the matter is that 'IRL' you still have to endanger yourself.

Being able to see people and wait till they make a run from their cover before you expose yourself and shoot, is Not Fair

[stefos71 6]

Hi everyone,

Where this converstation is going is here:

The DayZ mod operates very much like an MMO in regards to monster/loot spawning, 2 factions: Friend/Foe, etc.

The original Everquest MMO, not Everquest 2, was a first person only experience from what I hear.

I've only heard of people playing it and it had a "permadeath" mode/server which added the realism, obviously, with certain drawbacks for an MMO.

Now what do I suggest? This IF possible:

Have the creators of DayZ change the pine tree models, if possible to make them branch-free at their bases.

Real pine trees have no branches at the base or extending down to the ground as typically portrayed in Arma 2 and the current graphics models of the pine trees makes cover OVERTLY easy. Being exposed should cost a player something...Ex. Exploiting 3rd person to "see over a wall"....C'mon..

Incorporate the 3rd person model but place limitations:

1. Gillie suites should provide cover when low to the ground, obviously, and when in dense forest or high grass, NOT when hiding at

the base of pine trees which I see over & over again being exploited (see above)

2. Make infra-red & scoped rifles VERY rare.

3. IF possible, block "over the wall" looking via implementing a forward facing graphics model

Ex. When running near a wall, the graphics should block the "behind the wall" view somehow if possible

(I'm not a game designer sorry for the lack of technical jargon!)

I think this is a very do-able thing to implement as 1st person is not real and 3rd person view is being exploited.

stefos

stefos

[Wili 156]

Hi, after the Arma games have been released including 3rd person view I see a lot of complaints coming if it's removed.

One solution could be having more server options for this:

maybe one option with 3rd person like it is right now, another option with a capped 3rd person view ( camera at the character eyes height with the character displaced to the right/left and preventing looking over obstacles.)

maybe other option not rendering in 3rd person objects that you wouldn't see using 1st person view.

The idea is giving various options so the players can decide wich one they like more

I think Head bobbing should become a server option too, maybe head bob on/off option should be enough; if it's on the server decides the minimum head bob the player is forced to have. For example entering in a server with head bob 30 you'll be able to select between head bobbing 30 or more.

Playing with head bobbing is harder and because you need to stop to have a look around and it gives advantage to the player not using it.

Various types of head bobbing would be cool to have, one more "standard"/smooth like in other games, and another more realist like in Arma.

[St. Jimmy 1631]

One very small but very BIG solution for that first person clunkiness

Again great addon from Dsylecxi.

I'm still against 3rd person. Even CoDs, Battlefields, MoHs, L4Ds etc. don't have them on infantry and neither does DayZ need it. For example in Gears of War it works because the whole game is build around it.

[dystopeon 46]

oh god, some people here are missing the point entirely.

The actual POINT of "FPS only" is not about immersion, or even necessarily the blatant misuse/exploiting of 3dp under cover/grass/roof/wall. The problem is you (the 3DP guys) see obstacles as “annoying and clunky to move around” and “vision hampering” whereas these things are actually part of the game, designed to delineate the fine art of small arms.

The POINT of grass is to conceal hence also hamper your vision and movement.

The POINT of obstacles, buildings, walls and pits is to provide cover hence hampers vision and movement.

Negation of these basic small arms combat tactics with the use of 3DP devolves the entire experience into what you (3DP people) rail on about... COD.

You see, these “obstacles” make the game interesting and fun and provide rules -in somewhat proximity to real life- thus providing some basic "real life" balance (not present with 3DP gameplay).

ARMA in first person only is NOT like COD. Combat decisions like movement direction are actually important, unlike corridor shooters.

Play ANY death match 3DP server and note your behaviour, is it not the same as COD? Strafing constantly left to right around buildings and shooting from the hip? if you said no, you're a badass man, i'm fucking scared of you (*makes wanky-wanky motion with hand*)

PS. I really don’t care about the long-play super hardcore DayZ player (they mainly use 3DP anyway and are usually youtube/.tv whores). I’m a casual player, but I want a hardcore survival sim that teaches me small arms tactics, with little to no “hidden morons”. Like before 1.5.8. Goddamn, it was fucking beautiful, like the army's wet dream come true - a 24/7 realtime small arms training and survival 'world' - there was NOTHING like it. I MISS IT.

I know I’m getting “super old” since I’m 30 , but it seems these kids really don’t want to enjoy the game, they would rather have it delivered to them in a more passive manner not dissimilar from COD. Sign of the times. P.P.S to those who follow the gregorian calender, you're a fucking moron aren't you?

Edited December 31, 2012 by dystopeon

[BCaused 49]

Hi everyone,

Where this converstation is going is here:

The DayZ mod operates very much like an MMO in regards to monster/loot spawning, 2 factions: Friend/Foe, etc.

The original Everquest MMO, not Everquest 2, was a first person only experience from what I hear.

I've only heard of people playing it and it had a "permadeath" mode/server which added the realism, obviously, with certain drawbacks for an MMO.

Now what do I suggest? This IF possible:

Have the creators of DayZ change the pine tree models, if possible to make them branch-free at their bases.

Real pine trees have no branches at the base or extending down to the ground as typically portrayed in Arma 2 and the current graphics models of the pine trees makes cover OVERTLY easy. Being exposed should cost a player something...Ex. Exploiting 3rd person to "see over a wall"....C'mon..

Incorporate the 3rd person model but place limitations:

1. Gillie suites should provide cover when low to the ground, obviously, and when in dense forest or high grass, NOT when hiding at

the base of pine trees which I see over & over again being exploited (see above)

2. Make infra-red & scoped rifles VERY rare.

3. IF possible, block "over the wall" looking via implementing a forward facing graphics model

Ex. When running near a wall, the graphics should block the "behind the wall" view somehow if possible

(I'm not a game designer sorry for the lack of technical jargon!)

I think this is a very do-able thing to implement as 1st person is not real and 3rd person view is being exploited.

stefos

stefos

What does scoped weapons have to do with TP?

[dystopeon 46]

maybe one option with 3rd person like it is right now, another option with a capped 3rd person view ( camera at the character eyes height with the character displaced to the right/left and preventing looking over obstacles.)

maybe other option not rendering in 3rd person objects that you wouldn't see using 1st person view.

The idea is giving various options so the players can decide wich one they like more

Options ... Options... Options.... games are fucking cars now.

How is giving choice a good thing? players will just choose the easiest and most passive playstyle, as they are now doing. You have suggested nothing, that hasn't already been implemented. This idea has already been suggested (pointlessly) before, please read the entire thread.

I understand ARMA has 3DP, but it's mainly used for the trainer/commander and mounted weps or just humping to some place. You will rarely find any proper ARMA player using 3DP in combat or even in the AO. Can people stop using that shitty argument?

BI doesn't produce wishy-washy single player RPG's like Elder Scrolls (post MWind) with disconnected gameplay and viewpoints. Can the people still suggesting 'options' just actually TRY playing in 1st person? as every 1st person player is FORCED to the 3DP style. Question: Do ANY competitive multiplayer games (beside driving/flight) allow TRULY multiple viewpoint options?

Edited December 31, 2012 by dystopeon

[kaiga12 22]

Hey all of this talk about "invisible periscopes" gave me an idea. What if it were possible to find an item in game called "Mirror on a stick" or make one craftable by combining a steel bolt and a small mirror. Arma 3 has boasted all about it's ability to effectively do picture in picture on things like the submarine viewscreens and rear view mirrors on cars. If you want the advantage of third person and possibly even a bigger one, you'll have to loot or make it and use it at the appropriate time since you won't be able to hold it and shoot at the same time.

Edited December 31, 2012 by kaiga12

[dystopeon 46]

I understand your point about the "context sensitive" multifunction button and I agree with you on that, but start shooting seems to be quite unmistakable trigger to hop in a forced 1st person view.

Thinking about when I have to fire in DayZ:

• Hunting
  
• Player Vs Zombies
  
• Player Vs Player
  
• Blow up some tires? (see PvP)
  

I don't see any problem to have a forced 1st person view in this cases.

You'll be welcome to destroy logically any single point of my post. ^_^

Your whole post can be destroyed logically as you haven't applied any. Forcing 1st person AFTER shooting barely negates the advantage of being first-to-spot and getting 'the drop' in 3DP. Besides rhyming, that destroys all those 'points' of yours.

DiazWaffleCrabstro actually has a point here because he actually thought before he posted. The game would have to 'pre-empt' your behaviour thus adding unnecessary netcode & clunkiness'.

[dystopeon 46]

the way I see it, the real money is in keeping the community 'divided and conquered'. 3DP stays for the arma mod & 1st person only for the SA. That way they keep both yo monies, 3DP pansies keep their comfort stew (and keep buying ARMA2) and the hardcore douchebags get their cake with the SA. ARMA 3 stays seperate (affording a much later/better release). Its a profit deal! (yeah I hate everybody :)) win.

[Keudn 8]

if the engine is not clunky anymore and it is easy to navigate close quarters in first person and the FOV is fixed so it isnt tunnel vision get rid of 3rd person. it gives people too good of an advantage. the only reason im for it is because as it stands first person is almost impossible to play

[dystopeon 46]

Hey all of this talk about "invisible periscopes" gave me an idea. What if it were possible to find an item in game called "Mirror on a stick" or make one craftable by combining a steel bolt and a small mirror. Arma 3 has boasted all about it's ability to effectively do picture in picture on things like the submarine viewscreens and rear view mirrors on cars. If you want the advantage of third person and possibly even a bigger one, you'll have to loot or make it and use it at the appropriate time since you won't be able to hold it and shoot at the same time.

good idea fior 1st person, saw you post that somewhere else. :)

[silent sniper 18]

if the engine is not clunky anymore and it is easy to navigate close quarters in first person and the FOV is fixed so it isnt tunnel vision get rid of 3rd person. it gives people too good of an advantage. the only reason im for it is because as it stands first person is almost impossible to play

Got two links for you buddy,

Forums and Reddit

That is your FOV problem fixed. The clunkiness is just ArmA and possibly mouse smoothing, turn that shit OFF.