Broken Nutrition/Hydration mechanics

[Private Evans 1303]

Since the latest patches really have improved the game and brought back some badly missed content and mechanics, me and a few other old time fans of the mod would like to give the game a new chance and try again. BUT after a few days of testing and trying and searching for a good server we came to the conclusion that the Nutrition/Hydration (hunger/thirst) mechanics are completely broken.

- The Nutrition level drops much faster than the hydration level which is absolutely nonsense and should be exactly the other way round.

- Drinking is not really needed since eating fruits , mushrooms and stuff like tuna and sardines also restores yours hydration level which of course is ok but not up to a level that is above your nutrition level which then 

  again sinks a lot faster

- In fact drinking water is highly dangerous when having lets say the nutrition level on yellow, this instantly brings it down to red

- puking in that scenario is a pure death sentence since it needs you to drink water to hydrate again which then instantly drops your nutrition level to a point where it is nearly impossible to recover as long you are not

  well equipped and geared.

for new players especially on public servers  this absolutely destroys the game....finding not much loot after spawning combined with these mechanics is a nightmare when trying to team up and dying of hunger again and again and again 😞

 

is there anything planned to fix/ballance this ??

 

PS: speaking of vanilla gameplay this is 🙂 no mods and 2x loot etc

[Exxoduss 61]

It just started doing this to be honest.

They are working on it- and it also could be an inside engine part of code broken as well.

Edited December 16, 2020 by Exxoduss

[DayzDayzFanboy 1280]

I don't think it is broken, I'm pretty sure it's working as intended if I understand you correctly. It's my understanding that prior to this update, your apple would show as full but you could still eat a ton more before you actually were full. Now, it only fills the apple when you pretty much are full. I find that I need to eat a fair amount before the apple fills, but once it does you're good to go. 

[Pyongo Bongo 190]

Surviving on public servers is really easy for me. I don't even have to try to find food, it just comes to me! Whenever i walk through cherno or elektro i find bags and bags of rice, jars of jam and enough food in general. I have been staying on the coast mostly though.

[VodkaFish 38]

I live on the coast as well.  Food is not a problem, particularly after I have raised my stats and geared up.

You can go from one side of the map to the other with a tomato, water bottle, knife, and shovel.

Edited December 17, 2020 by VodkaFish

[Private Evans 1303]

Ok, if I understand correctly, with this patch, they tweaked the graphic presentation of the the hydration and nutrition so that it better matches the corresponding level of your character . Sounds good to me but they must have broken something along the way.

As I said before, the nutrition level drops too fast compared to the hydration level. Drinking water is not needed at all as long as you eat fruits, vegetables and even canned stuff like sardines. Drinking water even makes the whole thing worse since it adds an overdone boost to the general nutrition loss. In all of my test runs. I died of starvation, not once of dehydration, in fact my hydration level never went down to red exept for one time when my char puked.

Just to make it clear, I did about 30 test runs, playing as a freshspawn on different public, vanilla servers (Chernarus only) and it was the same for every run. Not to speak of my friends that experienced the same and stopped playing, completely annoyed after two evenings.

 I personally like the item spawn system as it is now, that canned food and stuff is more rare and that you have to find fruits , mushrooms or to hunt chickens ( if you are lucky enough to find matches to get a fire going), but as it is right now it stands for me that this system is either broken or needs a lot of tweaking. It might be ok on private servers, it might be ok for existing characters and it might be ok for clans  and groups or people in general that have built camps etc. but for players like me that just want to have a nice evening of playing DayZ with some friends it is only annoying the way it is now...which really is a shame because the game really has improved a lot thx to Sumrak 🙂

however thx to Exxoduss and Fanboy...as it seems this is a known problem, so there is hope...thx to the rest too for telling me how awesome you all are in playing this game even if this was not the question in the first place ....

[Thundermight 43]

 I cannot say that without being an a**hole, but, if you die due hungry on 1.10 it is because you don't know how to play the game properly.
 They did make some changes tho, but most of them are to help you than hurt you. I strongly suggest you to read some guide about that. Wobo and asmondian have some amazing and simple ones.
 Also, something you need to know is that cold is a thing now, and that alone increase your food consumption ALOT.
 And another tip that i always say is learn to fish.

[drgullen 593]

@Private EvansI'm curious as to what your play style is.  I suspect your shift key is being pressed right from your spawn point which if true is the root of the problem.

If you don't sprint right out of the gate, you should not be starving to death.  You'll notice clothes have an insulation factor now and if your temperature icon is any shade of blue, your character is cold and your energy level will drop more rapidly.  You should be looking for clothes with better insulation right away and jog while doing so.  If you play this way, it's rare to die of starvation -- it'll still happen sometimes as it should -- dying of starvation and dehydration should be part of the game now and then.

I don't agree about not needing to drink.  If you find a well, you should be drinking until your stomach is full icon appears.  Your bottle will be full and that's one less thing to worry about.

[Private Evans 1303]

So here is what I just did  to give it a fair test

no sprinting, no crouch sprinting, no fighting etc allowed  just jogging to keep the temperature up

no gear, no weapons,  only swapped the shirt against a pristine jacket after a few minutes

food/drinks : only a pear in my inventory and a green peeper I found on the way 

started jogging...

after some time  the hydration symbol went to yellow, shortly followed by the nutrition symbol  

I stopped to eat the pear waited abround 30 seconds and both symbols went back to white.....

went on jogging again....

short after that the nutrition symbol went yellow again...but not follwed by the hydration symbol

waited a few minutes , stopped and ate the green pepper

both symbols showed arrows up but the nutrition symbol did not go back to white but stayed yellow

kept on jogging...

after a while the nutrition went red ....the hydration stayed white...

kept on jogging....

finally when the nutrition symbol was empty and started flashing the hydration symbol went yellow but also stood yellow until I died of starvation exactly after 30 minutes......

 

is this intended ????

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by Private Evans

[Gobbokirk 546]

1 hour ago, Private Evans said:

is this intended ????

Doesn't sound far off tbh, with 1.10 there is the temperature to factor in as well, if you go jogging in your freshspawn clothing 30mins seems fairly normal.
Would be interesting to test how long we'd get if we had proper clothing as well.

[DayzDayzFanboy 1280]

@Private Evans I only play solo and on official servers. We're trying to help you, so sorry that you feel the need to be sarcastic in return.

Fruit and pepper will give you far more hydration as they have a high water content and low calorie content. That's why your hydration will stay higher than nutrician. 

Everyone on this thread is giving good advice. Get warm clothing as the cold will burn more calories. Also, you don't need matches to make a fire, you can make a fire drill with tree bark and a stick. 

There is also no need to walk everywhere. I try not to sprint until I have plenty of food, but jogging is fine. You'll never get anywhere walking. You just need to be very thorough looting. I would guess that one in five infected drop food. Greenhouses and rowing boats are worth checking as well as houses. 

As others have suggested, watch some YouTube videos for beginners. But honestly, once you get the hang, it isn't that hard to get started. 

Edited December 17, 2020 by DayzDayzFanboy

[Private Evans 1303]

Don't get me wrong I do appriciate people joining the discussion and trying to help. But thing is I am not looking for help, talking about spawnrates or survival stratgies. I am not dying instantly on every run I do, but after testing the game after a long time now, I am under the impression that the Hydration/Nutriton system is broken or at least massive unballanced. This is not a game breaking thing of course but I find it very annoying and also everything else than realstic.

Since I found most people not really understanding what I am talking about I made 3 test runs tonight that should cleary prove that dehydration and starvation completely works the wrong way and quiet the contrary to how it is in RL and how it should work ingame too.

1. test : vanilla server, usual starter gear, lying on the grass at the coast and not moving at all , no eating and no drinking

nutrition icon (apple) went down to yellow, red and then flashing until I died of starvation after around 30 minutes while the hydration icon (bottle) remained white until the end

2. test: vanilla server, usual starter gear, constantly jogging with no break, no eating and no drinking

hydration icon went to yellow first, shortly followed by the nutrition icon, then the nutrition icon went red, then flashing..till I died of starvation after around 25 minutes with the hydration icon still being yellow 

3. test : vanilla server, usual starter gear, constantly pressing the sprint button ( sprinting and jogging) without a break, no eating, no drinking

hydration icon went yellow first, then the nutrition icon went yellow also, then red and then began flashing, after it was empty flashing for a while the hydration icon went red also, seconds later I died of starvation after around 15 minutes with the hydration icon being red but not empty or flashing.

This clearly shows that the nutrition level drops much too fast compared to the hydration level. It should be exactly the other way round. Having then fruits and vegetables etc give you such a big hydration boost (which is realistic) would then also make much more sense then now. 

As I said this is not game breaking but under bad conditions like high populated servers, a bad spawn point, a lot of hoarded food etc, it is no fun especially if you do not have that much time to play or if you are a new player.  Last but not least, compared to how easy the endgame is once you are well fed and have found some decent gear it would be not a bad idea anyway to reduce the pace at the start  and to add some more difficulty to the endgame beside PVP....

 

cheers 🙂

 

 

[Exxoduss 61]

I am a very experience hunter/gather. I avoid PVP because I suck at it. I walk everywhere and I am familiar with the mechanics of the game and where to look for certian items. and after I die and repawn I AM finding it difficult to find food alot of the times. Depending on where Ispawn. If I spawn at elektro Im set because there is always a lamb just north of the power plant.all I need then is a knife and with the new update I dont even need that.. But yes dehydration will kill a living person very quickly depending on the conditions. Even when cold dehydration will take your life before starvation as the body will tend to start eating its own fat, muscle and bones to stay alive.  I do appreciate the challenge this is presenting, and lets be honest dying as a new spawn is not that big of a deal unless you are playing with friends and die just meters in front of finaly finding them. and yeah the walking factor is a little high in comparison to the jogging especialy for hydration... But after reading some of the posts in this thread, I do not find it acceptable that warmth will give you the freedom to run accross the map eating only one tomato. and also (as one example) rice should not hydrate you. and some other foods have an unrealistic proportional effects of hydration when consumed. One bottle of water is gonna hold alot more water then a single apple; even though an apple is 85% water.. here is a quote from google
"Dehydration is caused by not drinking enough fluid or by losing more fluid than you take in. Fluid is lost through sweat, tears, vomiting, urine or diarrhoea. The severity of dehydration can depend on a number of factors, such as climate, level of physical activity and diet."

As a little humor here:

I asked google the main causes of starvation: It told me this

The reasons are complex and varied, and often interconnected.

Poverty. Poverty is the main cause of hunger in the world. ...

Job Instability. ...

Food Shortages and Waste. ...

Poor infrastructure. ...

Unstable Markets. ...

Climate Change. ...

War and Conflict. ...

Nutritional Quality.

 

Edited December 18, 2020 by Exxoduss

[DayzDayzFanboy 1280]

@Private Evans right, I get what you're saying now. It's certainly quite compelling and it looks like you've thoroughly tested it. I suppose when I think about it, food tends to be my main focus starting off and I don't seem to worry about hydration as much. You're right, not game breaking, but odd. You can certainly live longer without food than you can without water irl. I'm still wondering if it's down to temperature though? If you're cold, burning more calories. Maybe now (for science) you could repeat the test, but in a house so you're temperature gauge is white. 

[Exxoduss 61]

20 minutes ago, DayzDayzFanboy said:

@Private Evans right, I get what you're saying now. It's certainly quite compelling and it looks like you've thoroughly tested it. I suppose when I think about it, food tends to be my main focus starting off and I don't seem to worry about hydration as much. You're right, not game breaking, but odd. You can certainly live longer without food than you can without water irl. I'm still wondering if it's down to temperature though? If you're cold, burning more calories. Maybe now (for science) you could repeat the test, but in a house so you're temperature gauge is white. 

food should not directly effect your actual health meter. it should effect your bodies regeneration of cells (Mitosis and apoptosis) & your energy level. Hunger does not kill you, organ failure kills you. although hunger hurts like a M***** ******.

So indirectly- it should cease the regeneration of blood and health and constantly gnaw at your stamina. and your charector should complain alot about it, making it difficult to sneak around; in consequently agro infected. + or - various programming limitations and degree. (shrug)

Regardless of the ultimate ending descision/result, I still love this damn game.

Edited December 18, 2020 by Exxoduss

[Private Evans 1303]

Thx guys this is what I am talking about, a game mechanic can be broken or unballanced but the game still works by finding all kind of workarounds. But this is not the way ! Simply calling the broken mechanics unforgiving and being proud of finding workarounds and exploits is not what I consider good gameplay. For example the hypothermia mechanic is really nice, it really effects your character without simply killing you after half an hour of running in the rain. Nutrition should work the same way..the character should suffer for along time before dying of starvation.Reduced stamina, strength, health recovery etc. should then force you to take more risks. For example having a low energy level would make it impossible to carry a heavy backback or to outrun the infected. A grumbling stomach would make sneaking a lot more difficult etc. Of course finding not enough food should be deadly at some point then.

Hydration is some other kind of beast and of course will even kill you after a relative short time, but this seems to be very well ballanced  by the big amount of water sources which do not depend on loot lists. Which brings me to another mechanic that seems unballanced but also belongs in some way to the hunger/thirst gameplay. Puking...it really is a good mechanic to punish you for desperately drinking from unsafe water sources...but again it is completely overdone and not realistic. Puking instantly and bringing your hydration and nutrition level nearly to zero is nonsense and again bad gameplay...you should suffer consequences but again it should take some time and give you at least a small chance to reach a better water source. Maybe puking more often which makes you of couse defensless and hearable..combined with grumbling stomach and visual penalties....

Again,the hypothermia mechanic is a good example in which direction the hunger and thirst gameplay should be changed and tweaked. 

[Exxoduss 61]

I think the Dayz team heard us in the forums and went on there xmas break last night or yesterday. I went to play last night and there was food everywhere, I mean everywhere... I built a small improvised shelter outside elektro/cherno and by the time I was done the fruit and mushrooms where everywhere, unlike I have ever seen. I am guessing to tide us over until they can look into it fully.

Edited December 18, 2020 by Exxoduss

[Exxoduss 61]

*I removed a video* Because I wanted to

Edited December 19, 2020 by Exxoduss

[Tonyeh 448]

I've asked a number of times before, but is food/energy really that difficult to implement in a game?

Surely, it's quite simple no? If I kill a chicken and eat two chicken breasts, I should be ok, hunger wise, for a few hours or at least an hour of game time. I shouldn't immediately have to wander off and kill a slaughterhouse worth of cows to not starve.

Food and nutrition in DayZ is a truly weird thing.

I understand that the Devs want to make DayZ difficult and that a toon needs to eat SUBSTANTIALLY way more than anyone in real life. But at the moment it's mental. Plus, this "near starvation" period is only limited to the first couple of hours gameplay. Because once you're out of that danger zone, getting food is simple because it is so plentiful on the map. So, for many players, it just reduced things down to an irritation when they have to "reboot" their character after being killed.

The only time players have to worry about food, or even just be mildly concerned is at the beginning of the game.

[DayzDayzFanboy 1280]

I think it's just one of those things that people will never agree on. Some want it harder, some don't. I guess I play however/whatever the state of the game is. If it was totally realistic you could get away with a tin of beans every couple of days. But then, there needs to be a reason to travel and loot. Its a mechanic. It isn't realistic that you can run up a mountain with a huge backpack but it would be rather frustrating if you couldn't. I think the fact that there are so many private servers with adjusted loot at least gives people that choice. I enjoyed playing on Don Sibleys hardcore server with one fifth loot. Surviving the first night was a massive achievement and all the more rewarding for it. 

[Exxoduss 61]

Same with DayZ Underground... There is no fruit on that server and canned food is super rare.

I am one of those people that want it harder! I appreciate the challenge. I do not like to PVP but I INSIST on the constant danger of it! I for one would love to see the game mechanics that will force people to work together, force them to camp at night because it will get to cold to survive or more wolves will spawn at night including more infected that will come out with a higher agro range. darker nights and lighter nights depending on the phases of the moon. But more imporantly stuff to do during this camp time. Cards dice, cooking, repairing equipment, building on the bases or shelter, finding ways to catch rain, building traps, sharpening tools making a garden, maybe even have mini games inside the camp to compensate for the dangers in the nighttime that should bring; in such a desolate situation. Personaly There needs to be 2-3 infected per house in the citys/towns. And just like COVID- The disease should mutate to effect animals maybe, Having infected cows and boars that will run after you, Cows are not a pussy animal and it should not take more effort to kill a chicken then just a running heavy attack from an axe to drop a cow.  Risk/Reward. Military infected should be EXTREMLY dangerous!

Smoking cigerettes (believe it or not) is an effective and easy implementation that will give RP value to players and pass ingame time ALOT more efficiently then one might think! Besides you might find that if people or kids can smoke in game they will beless likely to smoke in real life, because they will have a place to vent that emotion and characteristics of that emotion, instead of resorting to accomplish this aspiration in real life.  If smoking in game would cause people to smoke, there would be one hell of alot of dead people lying in the streets with bullet wounds and axes stuck in there backs.

Somemore food for thought to make this game more challenging - Domesticated cats (this is for an example that leads to a point) have very very dirty mouths. If you are bitten by a cat you are 90% chance sure you are going to get an infection at the bite site. cats bites are not to be played around with. the infected in this game should present the same challenge if one causes you to bleed.

All in all the food availability is a little high. but this might be to compensate for the sheer amount of it you need to consume even from just afternoon to dusk... I worked construction for 17 years out in the cold weather, even in the sub temperature. this cold has never once changed my lunch time at 1 oclock pm. summer time sweating balls or winter time freezing balls, Not once has it effected my the time I consumed food. I do know one thing though- I would not survive a single minute in the cold wihou a pair of shoes. your feet are a HUGE conductor of heat transfer in the body especialy when it is cold.

I am affriad if Dayz is going to get a harmonic balance here- They are going to have to hire a dietary doctor to assist in its implementation. Unless one of you Dayz Fans are a dietician that can assist for free- That would be wonderful. I know I have encountered Premed students before in game when Dayz had alot of emphasis on medicine and food/chemical poisonings and the defibulator blood transfusions and when you needed another player to administer an IV. (which was an ingenious way to promote teamwork ingame). If Dayz does have a Dietary Doctor already assisting them I Appologize.

Edited December 20, 2020 by Exxoduss

[Tonyeh 448]

16 hours ago, DayzDayzFanboy said:

I think it's just one of those things that people will never agree on. Some want it harder, some don't. I guess I play however/whatever the state of the game is. If it was totally realistic you could get away with a tin of beans every couple of days. But then, there needs to be a reason to travel and loot. Its a mechanic. It isn't realistic that you can run up a mountain with a huge backpack but it would be rather frustrating if you couldn't. I think the fact that there are so many private servers with adjusted loot at least gives people that choice. I enjoyed playing on Don Sibleys hardcore server with one fifth loot. Surviving the first night was a massive achievement and all the more rewarding for it. 

Agreed. I just think that the mechanics right now are absurd and after the first half hour cease to be important, because food is everywhere.

If I had my way, eating would work very differently and would be something that the player would have to be aware of throughout the game, not just when the first log in with a new toon. I am not saying that players need to be always on the brink of starvation or be in a state of worry about it, but finding food throughout a toon's life should be a thing to be aware of. I'd also make food sources much more rarer than there are now.

[DayzDayzFanboy 1280]

On a side note, if anyone that thinks dayz is hard, they should try The Long Dark. 

[VodkaFish 38]

On 12/18/2020 at 8:42 AM, Private Evans said:

Thx guys this is what I am talking about, a game mechanic can be broken or unballanced but the game still works by finding all kind of workarounds. But this is not the way ! Simply calling the broken mechanics unforgiving and being proud of finding workarounds and exploits is not what I consider good gameplay. 

This is the reality of dayz.  You have to exploit broken game mechanics to survive.  Without this challenge there would be nothing left.

Dont build a base wall there, someone can use a ladder and phase through your wall!

Hrm solution: Player build barbed wire booby traps that require you to phase through a wall to be trapped. You hear of any bans for this? No, because the developers know this shit is broken and don't give a fuck as long as they still have suckers paying full price for this garbage. 

The rest of the game is the same way.

 

[Private Evans 1303]

On 12/20/2020 at 1:20 AM, Exxoduss said:

I am affriad if Dayz is going to get a harmonic balance here- They are going to have to hire a dietary doctor to assist in its implementation. Unless one of you Dayz Fans are a dietician that can assist for free- That would be wonderful. I know I have encountered Premed students before in game when Dayz had alot of emphasis on medicine and food/chemical poisonings and the defibulator blood transfusions and when you needed another player to administer an IV. (which was an ingenious way to promote teamwork ingame). If Dayz does have a Dietary Doctor already assisting them I Appologize.

I don't think that it is such of a problem and difficult to get it right.

In fact there are even just two things that have to be corrected to provide a proper, fair and more realistice hunger/thirst experience.

 

1.  lowering the amount of hydration when eating fruits, mushrooms and canned food.

2. extending the time before a player finally dies of starvation and instead add some penalties for being low on calories 

 

 

 

Edited January 5, 2021 by Private Evans