Anti Ghosting/Server Hopping Measures

[Shakis 33]

I posted in the discussion thread but it was almost instantly buried (good to see a very active community 😄) 

I'm sort of in two minds about it.  I should state that I've not played the game in ages and although I am a long time player I should be considered a noob for information's sake.

 I believe it is needed. In my head this will make bases more secure, no ghosting through walls for example. It should also help with combat logging and flanking on a different server.

Additionally, I like the idea of being able to change server and instantly appear at the coast from waaaay inland to meet friends. If one team member dies or a new player joins us we can all swap server and meet up on the coast, handy AF.

 

Conversely: I sort of think being sent all the way back to the coast is a little heavy-handed, even though I'm not totally against it. I'd have thought that perhaps you would be sent to the outskirts of the nearest town/village. Kinda makes transferring loot from one server to another a bit difficult now (I have caches on multiple servers). Perhaps I was abusing the way servers worked by jumping between them like that and I totally get it if that is your opinion.

 

If you have any input I'd love to hear it!

 

 

 

 

[Mookie (original) 799]

Every time I join a server (including the one I had been on before) I'm back on the coast. I'm not hopping.

This needs a tweak. It's not possible to actually get anywhere on the map.

[drgullen 596]

21 minutes ago, Mookie (original) said:

Every time I join a server (including the one I had been on before) I'm back on the coast. I'm not hopping.

This needs a tweak. It's not possible to actually get anywhere on the map.

Sure it's possible -- there's miles and miles of beach you can explore!  😋

Seriously though, I agree 100% -- I hate the solution they've implemented for server hopping.  They need to go back to the drawing board with this one.

[emuthreat 2837]

Wait, so the anti-server hopping solution is to just have every player spawn on the coast at the usual respawn points???

How long until it becomes painfully obvious that the new meta will be to camp spawn points hoping to assassinate a non-bambi who has just come back the next day after successfully looting a high reward military zone and logging out safely in the trees halfway back to camp.

I was looking forward to playing some DayZ this weekend to check out the 1.04 additions.  Guess I'll just go walk my dog and then plant some more tomatoes and peppers this afternoon instead...

[emuthreat 2837]

It's a fuckup.  If a player has only a couple hours to play in a day, the chance of them making it to Tisy over the course of a week, by carefully progressing through the map, has just been arbitrarily ripped away from them.

It'd be much nicer if they made a new set of a couple hundred spawn points scattered around the map, and simply chose one that met the following conditions: Not inside a military base, not within 200 meters of any player-built wall structures, not more than 2km from logout point, not within 200 meters of another player, not within 500 meters of wolves.

[Lt.Master 78]

10 minutes ago, emuthreat said:

Wait, so the anti-server hopping solution is to just have every player spawn on the coast at the usual respawn points???

How long until it becomes painfully obvious that the new meta will be to camp spawn points hoping to assassinate a non-bambi who has just come back the next day after successfully looting a high reward military zone and logging out safely in the trees halfway back to camp.

I was looking forward to playing some DayZ this weekend to check out the 1.04 additions.  Guess I'll just go walk my dog and then plant some more tomatoes and peppers this afternoon instead...

spawn points for fresh spawns and "server hoppers" are not the same and are adapted to prevent this.

In short, choose a server and stay on this server even if it's night time or rainning. If you don't change server everything will be fine

[Mookie (original) 799]

The intention is a good one, but it's been badly done. Essentially, unless you want an instant beach holiday, you're stuck on a single server. 

Maybe that's what everyone wants, but it's a serious pain - and for me yet another of the growing reasons not to play vanilla. 

[Thundermight 43]

 Not only that, but i'm also stuck on that server selection screen after logging in, random blood loss (yes i know about shoes), bleeding sound while aiming, bleed animation(while not bleeding), unhealable bleeds and so much more...
 And don't come at me with that mod bullshit, because i only play on oficial servers.
 Fucking dumb devs, this patch shouldn't never left experimental.
 Bohemia always showing incompetence.

 Sorry for flame mode.

[drgullen 596]

2 hours ago, Lt.Master said:

spawn points for fresh spawns and "server hoppers" are not the same and are adapted to prevent this.

In short, choose a server and stay on this server even if it's night time or rainning. If you don't change server everything will be fine

So, you're okay with this?  We are being forced to stay on a server even if we don't want to because if we change servers, we'll spawn somewhere else.  You're seriously okay with that?  I'm definitely not.

What if you don't like or don't feel like playing in the dark?  What if you don't like or don't feel like playing in the rain?  What if this particular server is currently full of shooters instead of talkers/explorers and every attempt at a friendly encounter has resulted in being blown away despite having no gun in your hand and having your hand raised saying hello?

There's all kinds of reasons why you might legitimately want to change servers, but not current location.  Most people don't like playing in the dark and they shouldn't be forced to do so, otherwise, they are sent to the corner like it's the timeout chair in kindergarten.  If I've been playing for hours and have looted my way to the NWAF for example and I'm geared and ready for action and it is turning nighttime, I'd rather switch to a daytime server at that point and have a battle that I can actually see.  This prevents me from doing that because I'll log in on the other server miles away from where I was and as @emuthreat said, probably spawn in, get killed almost immediately by a "server hopper spawn point camper" and lose all my loot.

[ICEMAN-FMCS 69]

14 hours ago, ImpulZ said:

Let's go through some points here that we had to consider when coming to our solution.

Why change the spawn? Because players were able to abuse it to get inside bases, precisely change their positions during combat or be close to their gear when abusing it to dupe.

Why change it drastically? Because players were abusing the mechanic to hop across servers to loot several military bases. A 50-200 meter spawn move would end up pretty random and still not help this cause.

Where did we put the hopping spawns? The new spawns are not too close to the respawn points of new players. And while new players have less to lose, geared players can be in danger. We've also changed the respawn points, so that new players have better spawns than hoppers.

Can the system be abused to teleport? Maybe. But we've scattered the spawn points in separate areas along the coast, so those players would have to go through the effort of hopping multiple times (each with a spawntimer of 75 secs plus) just to spawn at some coastal area without any gain.

>>>>The goal is that players stay longer on one server and only switch if they want to join a friends' server. This will hopefully help to establish more server-specific rivalry, especially as bases gain security now. If players use server-hopping to get an easier game experience by escaping night or rain, that's not something we can prioritise over obvious exploits.<<<<

Half of this decision makes no logical sense, Sure we get the abuse and teleporting into bases part and evading night or weather conditions, but having to start back at the coast when you spent half the day on the westside (the best side) casing for a potential base location to start up and getting shitfaced tired and having to logoff and pickup where you left off the next day?,.. ugh but now I have a bloody log in my hands and sitting on the effin coast! ffs you see what Im sayin here? And also to mention the last line of your post here,.. I quote "Establishing server-specific rivalry" This doesnt sound like a friendly gesture in a meant to be friendly gaming community, it sounds like bias as Popular servers keep getting popular and mediocre ones will fade off in the sunset.. or the rich keep getting richer while the poorer get poorer type mentality, being popular private servers or official listed servers. this decision needs drastic attention The post I made regarding for the best possible solution HERE and should have others petition their support for it and or feel free to voice their concerns with any of it but not to ignore it as its a wise solution to a messed up decision if you dont mind me stating.  

 

Edited June 29, 2019 by ICEMAN-FMCS

[-Gews- 7443]

I haven't tried the patch. So if you swap servers, it just dumps you on the coast? That's laughably bad. There are a lot of reasons to swap servers apart from hopping, or ghosting, from population to night time to connection issues to simply forgetting which server you were on. That's why we have a thing that browses through them. I rarely ever play public hive, but this annoys me. If you like roaming around the northwest, this is essentially wasting an hour of someone's time. 

It could be improved, but why even roll it out like this?

Quotes from map designer Sumrak in DayZ Modder's Discord server:
 

Quote

coast spawns are intentional (at least for now, we did not really had a time to properly iterate on it) if the spawner keeps spawning all the people into one place, well, definitely not working like it should
but keep in mind that this only happens when you switch a server, if you keep playing on one, you stay in Tisy
if you do it fast (the server change), you are also going to wait for a timer before getting back

 

Quote

timer is there if you do it fast, position reset will happen always after the change of server, no matter how long was it until you last played with that character

 

[emuthreat 2837]

4 hours ago, Lt.Master said:

spawn points for fresh spawns and "server hoppers" are not the same and are adapted to prevent this.

This is actually worse, as a player can spend a day swapping servers, and make a catalog of the new points at which they can expect to find ONLY geared players logging in.  Oof.

Doing this with a grid of "survivor spawn points" throughout the interior of the map would be a much better solution.

[-Gews- 7443]

1 minute ago, emuthreat said:

This is actually worse, as a player can spend a day swapping servers, and make a catalog of the new points at which they can expect to find ONLY geared players logging in.  Oof.

Doing this with a grid of "survivor spawn points" throughout the interior of the map would be a much better solution.

But then there is the problem of starting on the beach near Berezino and by simply switching servers you might spawn in south of Zub, say, and this just saved you half an hour or more.

[emuthreat 2837]

12 minutes ago, -Gews- said:

But then there is the problem of starting on the beach near Berezino and by simply switching servers you might spawn in south of Zub, say, and this just saved you half an hour or more.

 

[-Gews- 7443]

5 minutes ago, emuthreat said:

 

The 2 km is fair enough.

[Maxzymator 26]

5 hours ago, emuthreat said:

It's a fuckup.  If a player has only a couple hours to play in a day, the chance of them making it to Tisy over the course of a week, by carefully progressing through the map, has just been arbitrarily ripped away from them.

It'd be much nicer if they made a new set of a couple hundred spawn points scattered around the map, and simply chose one that met the following conditions: Not inside a military base, not within 200 meters of any player-built wall structures, not more than 2km from logout point, not within 200 meters of another player, not within 500 meters of wolves.

Err... what? 2 hours is enough for player to go from freshspawn to Tisy and get back to the spawn point. I really wonder how do you play this game if playing for a week two hours a day isn't enough for you to get to Tisy.

[Maxzymator 26]

Didn't think that this elegant and simple solution for server hopping would make so many people to produce so much salt. So much salt from people used to hop from server to server when even a slightest inconvenience occurs, instead of playing a SURVIVAL game trying to overcome difficulties. And it's the same people who were crying out loud that "we need a solution to serverhopping ASAP because bastards stole all my shit from my base!!1!!!11!". Jeez.

[emuthreat 2837]

3 minutes ago, Maxzymator said:

Err... what? 2 hours is enough for player to go from freshspawn to Tisy and get back to the spawn point. I really wonder how do you play this game if playing for a week two hours a day isn't enough for you to get to Tisy.

I can sprint dead-out from a northern spawn, and make it to Sverograd on the verge of death from starvation/dehydration within a bout a half hour.  This is an extreme case.

I did this a couple weeks ago and died to the first zombie that hit me in Kalinivka...
I had died from a zombie after compulsively cooking a bunch of goat meat we had collected, while my friends looted KMB; I overheated from packing it all into a backpack while cooking on a stick, and got one-shot by a zed coming back from the cooling pond.
I sprinted back, from a south Berezino spawn, in complete darkness, making a beeline through Khelm cabins, around the south flank of Black Mountain, and through the woods east of Gvozndo.
I am an extremely experienced player, and only almost pulled it off by making way too many bad decisions in the interest of time.

My post was trying to approximate the experience of the average player, playing somewhat conservatively, and having their progress reset randomly to the coast whenever they logged on and joined the lowest ping official public server.  Which is a perfectly feasible scenario.

On a good day, it takes me about 50 to 70 minutes to get to Tisy;  in a still somewhat dire condition, from an ideal spawn point, with good luck on item spawns to keep me going along the way.  I don't play infinite stamina, reduced hunger/thirst servers....

 

[emuthreat 2837]

25 minutes ago, -Gews- said:

The 2 km is fair enough.

I wouldn't think it would be too hard to add a new set of "survivor spawn points" numbering somewhere in the mid 3-digits, and just let a bit of logic take over.
The usable area of the map is maybe 150km^2.  So picking 5 points per km^2 would give like 750 points to assign; easily crowdsourced for acceptable coordinates.

I hardly play anymore, and had been mostly on community servers for the last couple years. But if they needed help, I would gladly take a batch of five 1km^2 grids, and pick out 5 places each that would be okay spawn points for logins.

Can you think of any other conditions that should be considered/excluded of they were to do such a thing?

Having friends that still try to create a presence on official public servers, sometimes members will log into different servers based on uptime/population/ping/who is playing and what sever they prefer, this could be a pretty annoying feature.
If I just join the first generic server that has good ping, and run to where i know my peeps hang out, it will be a major drag if I get sent back to the coast trying to join up on their server.  If I get sent to a town 15 minutes away, I'll just get to see some new shit along the way, no biggie.

The idea is good, but the execution is shit. It's like feeding the homeless by handing out free pulled pork sandwiches, baked beans, and coleslaw; but serving it all up on a paper towel...

[drgullen 596]

2 hours ago, Maxzymator said:

Err... what? 2 hours is enough for player to go from freshspawn to Tisy and get back to the spawn point. I really wonder how do you play this game if playing for a week two hours a day isn't enough for you to get to Tisy.

You're missing the point.  Sure, I can get to Tisy from the coast in less than 2 hours -- the point is after looting Tisy, I want to continue exploring/looting other areas FROM TISY and not start over on the coast again.

With this new system in place, it's a roll of the dice basically every single second.  At any time, the server might go down and if it doesn't come back up, I'm forced to switch to another server to continue playing and it's bye-bye wherever I was before.

Another example is logging out somewhere for the night, but the next day when I want to continue, that server has a massive queue, yet another one that also has good ping for me is only Medium pop and has no queue, but again, if I join that one, I ain't gonna be where I was before, am I?  I'm sorry, but trying to persuade people to stay on a specific server is not a good solution to this issue.

[ICEMAN-FMCS 69]

WOW there are literally 4 of these posts I have seen and commented/quoted my other posts regarding it....i wonder how many more posts will be made on the same issue? Im not sure but i know I wil post my quotes in'em!...

HERE CHECK IT OUT

[ICEMAN-FMCS 69]

2 hours ago, Maxzymator said:

Didn't think that this elegant and simple solution for server hopping would make so many people to produce so much salt. So much salt from people used to hop from server to server when even a slightest inconvenience occurs, instead of playing a SURVIVAL game trying to overcome difficulties. And it's the same people who were crying out loud that "we need a solution to serverhopping ASAP because bastards stole all my shit from my base!!1!!!11!". Jeez.

Just so you know, I and a lot of others dont play on public hives anymore because of a infestation of hackers/glitchers etc.. from .62 onwards I played a few test servers and some EXP but thats about it, also judgemental assumptions fall on deaf ears, All this salt production? if there is really so much salt (feeling extra sweet myself) then start tanning business or a production line, I only used to "hop" servers when there either was nobody on it and I wanted some lone wolf aspects or when ones were full and I wanted some quick action/interaction. I take it you never read mine or the other the posts above yours before you made such comments? If you did.. great!, if not,.. Take a L(.)(.)K.

Edited June 29, 2019 by ICEMAN-FMCS

[aux7 234]

15 minutes ago, drgullen said:

You're missing the point.  Sure, I can get to Tisy from the coast in less than 2 hours -- the point is after looting Tisy, I want to continue exploring/looting other areas FROM TISY and not start over on the coast again.

why do you need to change servers after looting Tisy?

Or you really mean you want to raid Tisy on a low pop server as its easy, and then go shooting players on a high pop server?

 

8 hours ago, emuthreat said:

It's a fuckup.  If a player has only a couple hours to play in a day, the chance of them making it to Tisy over the course of a week, by carefully progressing through the map, has just been arbitrarily ripped away from them.

I do this most times  . .. .   I dont get much time to play. I could get there quicker, but mostly I am looting as I go.

8 hours ago, emuthreat said:

It'd be much nicer if they made a new set of a couple hundred spawn points scattered around the map, and simply chose one that met the following conditions: Not inside a military base, not within 200 meters of any player-built wall structures, not more than 2km from logout point, not within 200 meters of another player, not within 500 meters of wolves.

I really dont want to see other players spawning in at random on the map. Or in locations near specific targets. Imagine theres me creeping up to Tisy, its taken me a week to get there, then this heavily geared player appears, having just raided Tisy on another server, (in a spawn site 200m from the base).

 

It may be that I see him, and pop him with my trusty bk18, (ok, usually by Tisy I have a cr527 or a Tundra, or an sg5), or it may be that I dont, because they spawned out in a tree or bush. Or they have a helmet and body armour. Then they pop me . . .

 

 

 

@ImpulZ can we combine the serverhopping anti ghosting threads? thanks

 

[emuthreat 2837]

10 minutes ago, aux7 said:

why do you need to change servers after looting Tisy?  IF you are  playing on a random public server of your own choosing and then a friend logs onto a different server that they have a base on, you may want to join them without losing your geographical progress.

Or you really mean you want to raid Tisy on a low pop server as its easy, and then go shooting players on a high pop server?  I mostly play on one community server, and generally avoid PVP.  I do like to go help random strangers if they are chill though. Thanks

 

I do this most times  . .. .   I dont get much time to play. I could get there quicker, but mostly I am looting as I go. Yeah, but a setback to the coast is a big issue if you gotta change servers. And on the public hive, there are many reasons to change; especially if you play with different groups who all choose different home servers.

I really dont want to see other players spawning in at random on the map.This was possible under the old circumstances... Or in locations near specific targets.See previous line... Imagine theres me creeping up to Tisy, its taken me a week to get there, then this heavily geared player appears, having just raided Tisy on another server, (in a spawn site 200m from the base).Imagine creeping up to Tisy and coming across another player who has already been through there on that server...

 

It may be that I see him, and pop him with my trusty bk18, (ok, usually by Tisy I have a cr527 or a Tundra, or an sg5), or it may be that I dont, because they spawned out in a tree or bush. Or they have a helmet and body armour. Then they pop me . . .Normal gameplay.  Maybe they logged off for a meal, and came back later.

The point is to discourage server hopping for loot/ghosting.  Sending players back towards the coast has more unintended consequences than can be justified by this current fix.

 

 

 

@ImpulZ can we combine the serverhopping anti ghosting threads? thanks

 

 

[drgullen 596]

1 hour ago, aux7 said:

why do you need to change servers after looting Tisy?

Or you really mean you want to raid Tisy on a low pop server as its easy, and then go shooting players on a high pop server?

I don't appreciate you implicating me in this way -- I've been playing DayZ for years and I have never done what you described here -- not even once.

The point is changing servers isn't always about something to do with cheating.  The server is down right now and hasn't come back up.  The server is full, has a massive queue and I only have a short time to play.  The server has just started its night cycle and I played in night yesterday and want to continue where I left off, but in daytime this session.  Those are three examples right there where this "back on the coast" mechanic would have nothing to do with trying to screw over a base or hopping for loot.