Basebuilding - How far Away? What's Coming? The Hopes and Dreams....

[Caatalyst 46]

Hello there!

I'm not sure where many others stand here, but I think it's safe to say a lot of folks are looking forward to base building - myself included. As far as I understand it's right around the corner but yet I can't find much information on how exactly it will work and how it will effect the overall experience so if anybody can link me up I would greatly appreciate it. I've got high hopes for base building as it's one of the core features that could really add longevity to Dayz if done right. I say done right because my main concern is that base building from what we've seen so far seems to be at risk of essentially becoming nothing more than a glorified loot container.

Here's how I hope to see base building play out in the long term;

TIERED CRAFTING AND CONSTRUCTION

As I understand it, what we know so far is that we can place a selection of containers and tents on the ground and then build a fence or wall around them. This to me jut seems really basic. For a start the developers could tier the building system and it could be done in a very organic way so it ties in with the realism you would expect in the Dayz universe.

1) Tier 1 (Tents, containers and fires)
So this is the first step towards base building. Once you are in a descent state of health you can look for a spot and get down the basics. This first stage of base building offers nothing more than a place to cook simple meals, produce clean water and store a limited amount of supplies.

2) Tier 2 (Basic defences and crafting workstations)
Using your tier 1 base you can stockpile necessary resources and tools that are needed to reach tier 2. In order to get to tier 2 you will need to make multiple runs to workstations located in towns and villages throughout the map that allow you to craft more complex constructions like a wooden wall / gate. Alternatively instead of relying on the existing workstations you can craft a workbench at your base allowing you to produce certain items like crude nails, wooden planks etc that would allow you to get your walls up without having to traverse to dangerous hot spots on the map. Crafting your own work stations isn't an easy task though and requires tools difficult to find in the world.

3) Tier 3 (Advanced defences, better cooking and workstations)
This is where players would start to introduce metal working for their constructions. Using metal working and metal working workstations you would be able to produce metal fortifications, doors, and traps. Also you could create metal huts within your camp that provide better protection to your assets. Like tier 2, you could go find the necessary work stations around the map or use them to craft your own so that home production can be done. Metal work tools would be required. As well as construction pieces the player could craft more advanced tools and cooking apparatus like pots, bowls and start branching into chemistry in order to make medical supplies.

4) End game Tier (Advanced Defence and Electronics)
This is where things really get interesting and should be very difficult to reach and complete. This would open up the player's ability to construct the most advanced tools and pieces for their base including electronics allowing for electronic systems like locks and surveillance.. Using previous and new workstations the player could craft things like concrete walls, advanced medicine, weapon repair bench, weapon attachments, explosives, ammo crafting, traps, code locks etc..

Now these are just very basic overviews of how they could work but just from reading so many other aspects of game play would thrive, i'm barely scratching the surface of what could be done and how more in depth crafting could add to game play. For example, character progression could be heavily tied to crafting, exploration is encouraged to find parts and tools in the world that cannot be crafted, and then the game is opened up for base raiding. Not everything should be craftable, for example during the end game when the player starts to use electronics they wouldn't be able to craft a laptop or cameras but instead find them and hook it up to their crude electrical system. Also I should point out a couple of things. A) Nomad playstyles could still be completely viable as all crafting workstations would be located throughout the map. B) tier systems aren't locked and therefore if a player found the necessary items needed to create an end-tier construction while only having a tier 1 camp then of course they could do that. It would just be very hard to do this.

RAIDING

Offense

So after you've got your base building an progression, how do you implement a balanced raiding system? Well no matter what the level of a base, it should be raidable by any player no matter what stage in the game they are. It just needs to be made so that a new player is going to only get in a descent base if they get lucky by finding the required tools early on.

In preparation for raiding player's would have to engage in a mixture of crafting and looting to get the necessary items. So here are some examples of raiding tools and how they could work;

1) Lockpick
Simple item used to breach locks using a key. They have a chance to break and can only be looted in the world with a low chance of spawning.

2) Thermal Scanner
Another one found in the world with an extremely low chance of spawning. This item would be used to get into a high tier base using a codelock. The raider would need to wait for the owner to use the codelock and access it within 10-15minutes to get some or all of the code. (this idea is essentially used in Exile mod and is great for those who like to play the long game)

3) Sharp Tools
Anything in the world should damage constructions but for balancing purposes the damage they deal to them should be extremely low unless it's a tent or tyres of a vehicle.

4) Explosives
Now we are talking! The most effective raiding tools but come at great cost. They would require a mixture of crafting and looting in order to make. Different types of charges could be used for different types of materials. For example, concrete walls would need more powerful explosives in order to penetrate because they are higher tier constructions. To balance this out player's would need to use high tier crafting stations in order to produce them.

5) Laptops + wireless system
The offensive way to use a laptop. Set it up near a base you want to raid and commence the hacking process. This will take time and have a chance of failing / destroying the laptop but can take down all electronic locks systemically.

Defence

1) Bear Traps + Mines
No explanation needed here - Break a leg

2) Shotgun trap
Classic, we've all seen them used in the moves. System that pulls the trigger when a player opens a door shooting the trap.

3) Walls + Upgrades
It's fair to say these are already coming. Different types of walls that can be upgraded

4) sandbags
Provides cover from bullet fire

5) Laptop + Cameras
Used for seeing what's going on around your base

6) alarm
Use trip wire to set it off, later alarm systems could be triggered by a hack taking place near the base.

7) Padlock
Fairly common item that can be looted and put on tents in order to protect them from looters.

8) Doors with key locks
Does what it says on the tin

9) Electronic Code lock
Hooked up to an electrical system, harder to access.

It just seems to me that without raiding, there is little reason to enjoy many of the other aspects of Dayz because the constant spawn --> military base ---> die cycle gets tiresome real quick. Base building not only provides a purpose but could be a reason to go to many other parts of the map. There's tons I didn't even touch on in detail as well like food preservation, medical and other quality of life benefits that having a base could bring. The trick will be balance, there needs to be a reason to build a base and a reason to raid others to make it fun. At the same time the tools needed to raid need to be hard to acquire making players really think about their next engagement.

So what do others think about raiding and how it should be present in the game?

Edited September 18, 2018 by Caatalyst

[RenegadeTitan 1]

I like the features you listed, I kind of want it to remain rudimentary, I wouldn't want them to bring in cement mixers, and such for concrete walls, don't get me wrong, it's easy, I've done it myself on projects at home, but, trying to imagine that in DayZ, just doesn't fit, for me at least, it could fit for the developers or to other players, that's just how I feel, then again, they might do it in a way that does fit, but doing something similar to the game The Forest, with log walls would be good, or using the metal scrap for corrugated metal fencing around the perimeter would be the max I would want the game to incorporate in terms of your ability to DIY with base walls, I think that would sort of suggest to people, find a nice place, with a good ready built perimeter/building, like a compound or farm, with ready built concrete walls or metal fences, and incorporate that into your base, it would look more natural and keep with the games immersion, I think in no way can any element of base building in DayZ look polished or pristine, it has to always look scrappy and rustic to keep with the theme, otherwise it'll look out of place and maybe ruin the aesthetics of DayZ and that whole, survivor apocalypse feel.

I want it to stay away from anything Arma3 Exile did, the laptops and hacking doesn't really sound like it fits into DayZ nor the Thermal Scanners, even if they're super rare.
Would be cool though to have base Cameras, having a control room with all the salvaged, cracked screen, older variation Tvs with the deep backs, set up so you can see all around your perimeter and everything, give you a slight advantage against the team smashing their way through your walls with some sort of self made explosives.

There's so much they could do, can't wait for another layer of DayZ to stretch out the game, so it's no longer so repetitive.

 

Edited September 18, 2018 by RenegadeTitan
i sacks at speling.

[Kirov (DayZ) 585]

I've played some Arma 3 Exile recently and I must say that base building is, and must be by definition, hilariously immersion-breaking. There are two things here:

1) base elements need to fit into your inventory or containers in order to be used properly, so for example you can go to a crafting workstation with some planks and come back with three wooden walls in your 'pockets'. In Exile, a huge base element usually takes less inventory space than a big gun. I completely lost it when a friend of mine told me 'dude, I had a hangar in my safe but I think I dropped it somewhere'. This kind of ridiculous statement just doesn't belong to DayZ. And yes, I understand that the 'authentic' alternative (that it takes a truck to carry a wall) is dull and tedious.

2) base raiding is either 'authentic' (= 'too easy') or based on in-your-face-arbitrary rules. I had a lot of fun in Exile, exploring, crafting and shooting, but whenever I found someone's base, it was like a big message saying 'hey, this is just a game, we don't even pretend that we pretend it's reality'. A part of what I obviously mean is, wooden walls which are completely impervious to tank shells, but it goes beyond that (like unrealistic physics for base layout, basically without gravity).

Base building is a game within a game, and with a set of arbitrary rules on par with Minesweeper. I understand that certain limitations enforce arbitrariness (e.g. people need unrealistic safeguards for their bases because they just can't be there all the time), but that's precisely my point - base building has to look stupid if it's supposed to work. Expect sentences like "oh, a wooden base! Hmm, we have a big truck and several RPGs and grenades. If only we had something to put a dent on that wood..." or "dude, can I store this concrete 3-floor tower in your barrell?".

 

I believe I'll give a wide berth to servers with complex base building mechanics, as my idea for storage is a network of well-hidden stashes throughout the entire Chernarus. But of course, I'm quite sure that most players will choose the Exile style of base building and we'll soon have craftable airport towers in some mods.

And yes, thermal scanners and CCTV don't belong in a world where most sophisticated devices are walkie-talkies. Again, I'm sure that mods will anyhow bring us UAVs and camera-equipped bullets.

[RenegadeTitan 1]

I think a step by step building process wouldn't be too bad, maybe you kind of choose what you want to make, have a container or something, you make or find, like a large construction sack, you place a couple of wooden planks down that you've crudely made from a log, into this container sack thing, and then you choose which crude building you want to make from a small option window, and then from there you have to add a few planks or metal sheets, screw, nuts, bolts, or whatever, here and there, for it to start to take shape.

The things I read about base building for DayZ a while ago made it look as though it could work really well, you can electrify a fence with a generator, for immersion purposes....that stops most bolt cutters, you can have razor wire, which, grenades only chuck up in the air and tangle even more in reality...so that stops nade spamming if they stick to immersion, RPGs/LAWs being fired at walls...that's the only issue, unless with each hit, the wall takes on a state of damage and starts warping the metal or splintering the wood, in reality, it would turn the wood into toothpicks, but, yes, it's a game, you can only really go so far, but I would be happy with that kinda set up or mechanic, I think it might fit well, but we'll see what happens, it's a work in progress either way, they'll tweak it, as it goes till it works.

Agreed, DayZ needs to stay the hell away from Arma3 Exile Mods base building mechanics, granted, that's a Mod, and not Bohemia, but still, they might draw some inspiration from it, which I hope they do not.

 

[Reaper TDO 14]

26 minutes ago, RenegadeTitan said:

Agreed, DayZ needs to stay the hell away from Arma3 Exile Mods base building mechanics, granted, that's a Mod, and not Bohemia, but still, they might draw some inspiration from it, which I hope they do not.

 

yes for sure i would  love to just see tents back in but yes maybe barbed wire, chain link and wood fencing but not Arma 3,2 wooden walls also some sort of gate too 

[Kirov (DayZ) 585]

1 hour ago, RenegadeTitan said:

Agreed, DayZ needs to stay the hell away from Arma3 Exile Mods base building mechanics, granted, that's a Mod, and not Bohemia, but still, they might draw some inspiration from it, which I hope they do not.

My take is, vanilla DayZ should have only non-immersion-breaking base-building, and let the modders do whatever they want. I'm gonna stick with servers striving for 'authenticity', that's for sure.

[Caatalyst 46]

4 hours ago, Kirov (DayZ) said:

I've played some Arma 3 Exile recently and I must say that base building is, and must be by definition, hilariously immersion-breaking. There are two things here:

1) base elements need to fit into your inventory or containers in order to be used properly, so for example you can go to a crafting workstation with some planks and come back with three wooden walls in your 'pockets'. In Exile, a huge base element usually takes less inventory space than a big gun. I completely lost it when a friend of mine told me 'dude, I had a hangar in my safe but I think I dropped it somewhere'. This kind of ridiculous statement just doesn't belong to DayZ. And yes, I understand that the 'authentic' alternative (that it takes a truck to carry a wall) is dull and tedious.

2) base raiding is either 'authentic' (= 'too easy') or based on in-your-face-arbitrary rules. I had a lot of fun in Exile, exploring, crafting and shooting, but whenever I found someone's base, it was like a big message saying 'hey, this is just a game, we don't even pretend that we pretend it's reality'. A part of what I obviously mean is, wooden walls which are completely impervious to tank shells, but it goes beyond that (like unrealistic physics for base layout, basically without gravity).

Base building is a game within a game, and with a set of arbitrary rules on par with Minesweeper. I understand that certain limitations enforce arbitrariness (e.g. people need unrealistic safeguards for their bases because they just can't be there all the time), but that's precisely my point - base building has to look stupid if it's supposed to work. Expect sentences like "oh, a wooden base! Hmm, we have a big truck and several RPGs and grenades. If only we had something to put a dent on that wood..." or "dude, can I store this concrete 3-floor tower in your barrell?".

 

I believe I'll give a wide berth to servers with complex base building mechanics, as my idea for storage is a network of well-hidden stashes throughout the entire Chernarus. But of course, I'm quite sure that most players will choose the Exile style of base building and we'll soon have craftable airport towers in some mods.

And yes, thermal scanners and CCTV don't belong in a world where most sophisticated devices are walkie-talkies. Again, I'm sure that mods will anyhow bring us UAVs and camera-equipped bullets.

I'm not sure if that post was targeted at mine or just a rant about Exile as I only referenced Exile once with regards to the thermal scanner. I completely agree the construction method for Exile is completely immersion breaking but it has a pretty good raiding mechanic in place so I definitely would not be disappointed to see some of those approaches used in Dayz like tiered charges and thermal scanners. 

The finer detail on how building parts are created is still up in the air but it already looks like the devs plan on having a blue print system where you feed the blueprint with the parts which should put your mind at rest in that regard. The workstations would be used to turn raw materials into the components needed for the blue print. The main focus of my post was not necessarily about how you place and handle building parts but how base building as a whole could be implemented and how much it has to offer to game play if provided with enough content to work with.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Caatalyst

[RenegadeTitan 1]

1 hour ago, Caatalyst said:

I'm not sure if that post was targeted at mine or just a rant about Exile as I only referenced Exile once with regards to the thermal scanner. I completely agree the construction method for Exile is completely immersion breaking but it has a pretty good raiding mechanic in place so I definitely would not be disappointed to see some of those approaches used in Dayz like tiered charges and thermal scanners. 

The finer detail on how building parts are created is still up in the air but it already looks like the devs plan on having a blue print system where you feed the blueprint with the parts which should put your mind at rest in that regard. The workstations would be used to turn raw materials into the components needed for the blue print. The main focus of my post was not necessarily about how you place and handle building parts but how base building as a whole could be implemented and how much it has to offer to game play if provided with enough content to work with.

Think it was aimed more at what I mentioned in regards to Exile, rather than your original post mate :) . just expanding on mine and why he thinks Exile is a route the game should not go, not that it would, but maybe it could.
It will certainly be interesting to see how base building plays out, the first wave of base building mechanics will most likely be very basic in comparison to what they consider the final product anyway, after we all get our hands on it and offer feedback and suggestions, it could be re-shaped considerably, I know DayZ has taken a long, long, long time to get to this point, but I kinda like that, they still care, otherwise they would have said, nah, this is what you get, and they've made lots of changes based on the players, so I think in that regard, whatever they do, will be something we'll appreciate.

Edited September 18, 2018 by RenegadeTitan

[Kirov (DayZ) 585]

17 hours ago, Caatalyst said:

I'm not sure if that post was targeted at mine or just a rant about Exile as I only referenced Exile once with regards to the thermal scanner.

Relax, I wasn't targeting you or even the Exile system. In fact, I can understand how many people can find it enjoyable. I'm just pointing out that it's not gonna be easy to find working game mechanics which are not glaringly arbitrary. I don't know how the blueprints will work, I hope they will at least alleviate the problem of gravity-defying structures.

Look, I like base building as much as the next guy, but DayZ has always been to me the most immersive game ever and I'd like to keep it that way. If you know any mechanics which don't scream 'it's just a game!', I'm all ears.

[pilgrim* 3514]

safe bases will break DayZ 

I guess the first move to introducing "bases" will be to have doors and windows of existing buildings boarded up by the player.

*

xxP

Edited September 19, 2018 by pilgrim*

[cirkular 178]

OP, there's a couple of Youtube videos on Dayz base building files which exist in the game but are not active. Can't seem to find any official ones, and I know I've seen some showcases before. Mostly, players went for a way to open up the experimental 0.63 version and see the data that's in so they showed it on Youtube. For example this guy Archi, here's the link 

 I agree with Kirov and pilgrim here, where the base building should be as authentic as possible, which the devs confirmed they are striving for in game numerous times before. They wouldn't do it if it didn't look OK by their standards.

Everything needs to be thought out supported by the engine, then written into the game and then developed and bug tested. It's a complex thing, game in a game as Kirov said. And my comment on the blueprints systems in games is that it's just a workaround for implementation in a game. In reality, anyone would pretty much be able to do something usable with simple wood logs, branches and ropes, then planks, nails, screws, metal sheets etc. Sandbags. Of course you don't really need blueprints for that, but a game's blueprints are actually showing you what a game system actually supports, in other words what are the building limits in a game which were developed. That's why I call it a workaround.

But, maybe you don't want to be in a building, existing or your own. Maybe you want to avoid some town areas at the moment and build a simple shelter in the wilderness from rain and cold wind for the night while you travel around the map. It can be a simple camouflaged hideout from the prying eyes. With tarp or branches. Let's say it's not intended to be a permanent base with a stash. I'd like to see these simple things first in the game which we can place virtually how ever we like. As far as what looks obviously OK, meaning the game and simple laws of physics would allow.

Then remember there was a welding mask in game, so with welding apparatus and power generator to make something stronger out of those metal sheets and bars maybe. For a concrete structure you'd need a couple of days for the concrete ground base only and then the walls, bricks or concrete... and then the roof :D It's too complicated unless we get these blueprints. Sometimes less is not enough, but also sometimes it's better.

I also wonder how can you build a proper safe on your own. Unless you find and transport one with a truck. Although it would take several people or a forklift to lift it onto a truck :D And all that in Dayz Chernarus chaos.

If we start first with something simple and primitive, like pilgrim said boarding up or barricading, I think this would be easier highly motivating for the devs to improve later. And somewhat develop it further to the next level, according to the game's apocalyptic background. In a satisfying and logical direction as far as I can understand this "authenticity" vision. But I'm sure they've got most of the things they envisioned worked out so far.

[liquidcactus 719]

Im a simple man. I just want to barricade a house. I dont need no fort. I'm hoping we will see the use of indoor storage again. For a breif period the wardrobes in houses were a container maybe a year ago or more. They could store about as much as a barrel. Other than that i guess stashing barrels inside fortified houses will do the trick. Nails, hammer, planks ? maybe the crow bar would make it easier to get them off the fortified doors ? You would have to barricade your house from the inside when you log off to make it very hard for someone to break in. Then when you leave perhaps you would have to re barricade the outside making it somewhat more vunerable when you left you HQ untill you get back to re barricade the door from the inside that you left through ?

Boggles the mind to think of the possibilities and oh man its taking a while.

[BUGS-BUNNY 1]

make a vote about building bases, because we don't need RUST, h1z1, clone!! we need Dayz! nobody needs your boxes on the map!
you have a thousand unoccupied houses(or cities), allow them to occupy, this will be enough

[Sqeezorz 839]

after seeing a few ideas and places of wild basebuilding, i noticed one thing. There are many places outside the civilization that would be a special feature of basebuilding.
I mean all these places and places:
Are uneven.
Rocky environment
Have steep slopes.
For this, however, first a foundation* would have to be created which corresponds to a size of the base of the watchtower (3x3).
The maximum height must also be limited to 2 (the height of a fence).

*You need big stones, and cement from construction sites. (Maybe you have to do that first with boards and logs, a "construction frame", not a simple thing, but leaves very special constrictions open.

 

An image as I imagine such a base plate / foundation in finished state. (what you do not see is that the plate is sunk about 2.5 in the ground to compensate for bumps)

At this point, the option would be very good only a 1 wide fence (now they are 3 wide 2 high) There are many new possibilities (person door / bulkhead at gates or behind gates us so on)

maybe just an idea for a modder ^^.

[0.64 Freerider 261]

Fantastic stuff man!!! You should add a poll to this so people can get some votings in on this!