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Caatalyst

0.63 And Beyond - My Biggest Concerns

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Hello Everyone!

First off I just want to say that the current build is absolutely fantastic. I've been away for quite some time while the devs worked through the dark period transitioning to the new engine. I know there is still a lot to do and fix but I finally dived in deep last night with a friend during the overnight stress test and we had such a good time. It was nice to play Dayz as it was intended instead of an hour of hunting rifle deathmatch. The new engine looks and sounds amazing. Most of the new controls feel fluid. 

With that said, I've got some pretty big concerns that I wanted to point out while the final features get introduced and ironed out. I know i'm probably speaking for a lot of other players as well including many of the ones I've had the pleasure of teaming up with over the past few years. So in order of priority I really hope the devs really think about the following features and game play balances;

  • Raiding System
    This is gunna be a tough one and I really hope the devs get it right. As far as I know, no information has been released about how raiding will work. I really hope we get some tools specifically designed for raiding, rather than allowing bases to be destroyed with anything a player can find. Just to give you an example of a good raiding system, if anybody has played Exile mod for Arma 3 they have specific charges that you have to craft using items you find in the world. There are different types of charges depending on the building materials you are attempting to destroy. For example, low tier wood bases require wood charges. High tier concrete bases require concrete charges. Higher tier charges require more resources and more time to detonate. Now I've played all of the most popular PVP open world base building games there is on steam and I can tell you in my experience this still is the most balance raiding system to date. Additionally raiders can use thermal scanners to scan the code locks of doors and vehicles if they can manage to get to them without been spotted by the owner within 15 minutes of the last time they were accessed. The raider will receive the last 3 digits of the code and they will have to work out the remainder. These two systems are absolutely great, very well balanced. I suggest anybody who hasn't played exile go try it to see. For the defender there is another fantastic Exile system which sends a notification to their real world smart phone to tell them they are been raided as soon as an explosive is detonated on one of their base walls or doors. I think the main point for base raiding is that I really hope the devs consider balancing. Please don't make it so that anyone can easily get into somebodies base and wreck havoc. Make them work for it and with each raid there should be a great deal of risk. 
  • Base Building
    From what I've seen so far bases look pretty simple and mostly like glorified tents. I really hope that bases have a greater purpose than been a place to horde loot. There is so much scope here for things like workstations to craft clothing, armour, tools weapons and ammunition etc.
  • User Interface / Inventory Management
    Another aspect of the game that in my opinion needs some serious TLC. The current inventory management system is clunky and unintuitive. Some smaller items are really hard to see and the inventory can be slow and unresponsive. I'd suggest the devs take a good look at Escape from Tarkov with regards to UI and even Rust. These two games have a very clean and user friendly method of managing loot and modifying weapons / ammo etc. The current method for loading magazines and ammo is also very mundane and clunky. I get what the devs are going for but it is just too far and impacts the flow of combat negatively. Half the time it doesn't even chamber a bullet when using the hot keys combo.
  • Health & Nutrition Statuses
    The current notifications for things like taking damage, losing health and food or water are not all that clear. Why not add graphics for when your character is full o or in a good state of health? Also hunger / thirst seemed to go down slower when you were healthy in 0.62 and this worked really well. Sometimes its hard to see whether a zombie has made you bleed or just damaged you. Some additional audio and visual cues would really help out here.
  • Food / Hunger
    It's feeling pretty brutal at the minute. The amount of food and drink our character has to consume in a day is pretty insane. It's particularly stressful when you spawn and your hydration level can hit zero before you even reach the closest town. I suspect new players will have a really hard time here not understanding the game mechanics and not knowing where to find the best sources of nutrition are.
  • Rotate Items In Inventory
    Please allow us to rotate items in our inventory so that we can fit more in our bags and clothing slots.
  • End-Game Content
    While there is a lot of excitement over the beauty of the new engine atm, I'm worried the novelty will quickly wear off and that Dayz will still be a case of spawn, rig up, die and repeat. I really hope we really get some tiered game play that involves progression and plenty to work towards when we get our gear and base built. Maybe around the map there could be secret objectives or missions / highly radioactive areas with nastier zombies and exclusive loot and vehicles - Maybe even some NPC type objectives. I just really hope base building doesn't become the last thing we do and then quickly get bored.


They are my biggest worries right now and I really hope we hear more from the devs and there plans to combat them in the near future. 

 

Edited by Caatalyst

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You are making good markers for the devs, I like your points alot, it looks like my suggestion report here: 

But I'm sure the devs will make the most of our wishes happen in BETA and 1.0, they are always reading the forums so it should be fine, but no harm pointing it out of course! :) .

This is probably the most important note for DayZ's future: The survivors need more goals to complete (base building, AI missions, nuclear zones, alot of vehicles, etc...) .

In this 0.63 build our survival goal is going more slow, thats going into a good direction! (for example the stamina or strong infected are making it harder to go to the NW airfield and so on) .

Last but not least, support and trust in BETA and beyond! thx for hardwork devs and keep reporting wonderful community of Chernarus <3.

Best wishes.

Raptor.

Edited by Raptor97

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Thanks man I appreciate it! I really wanna see Dayz do well and with the new engine it feels like it could really be a great survival game now. It just needs that end-game content adding to give it longevity. 

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7 hours ago, Caatalyst said:

its hard to see whether a zombie has made you bleed or just damaged you. Some additional audio and visual cues would really help out here.

  • Food / Hunger
    It's feeling pretty brutal at the minute. The amount of food and drink our character has to consume in a day is pretty insane. It's particularly stressful when you spawn and your hydration level can hit zero before you even reach the closest town. I suspect new players will have a really hard time here not understanding the game mechanics and not knowing where to find the best sources of nutrition are.

Stop sprinting when you can't afford it. You will notice in the lower right hand corner that the food and thirst decrease indicator becomes red when you are sprinting. 

Exile does have pretty awesome base features. It's inevitable that they will eventually come to DayZ. Modders will certainly add this kind of stuff if it is lacking. As for rotating items, I don't think that is something we will see the devs deliver. They have redesigned carrying containers. Some are short and tall, others are wide and stubby. The ability to rotate items would the work they did designing the different carrying containers.

Edited by Solopopo

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I am a first time and somewhat a newplayer, however I feel my opinion may be credible in terms of reflecting what new players might want/see in the game before its anticipated release.. I was fortunate enough to play nearly the WHOLE extended stress test the other day and was in a lucky position where I had just played around 6 hours of .62, so changes were notable from the title screen. Here are my thoughts.

 

The cross hair promotes active/aggressive play style: Which isn't bad

I understand that some veterans are very upset about this new feature. I find it actually allows you to be more confident. I still found things like if you shoot from the hip you can end up hitting walls/window frames where ADS would otherwise give you a clear shot so the realism is intact. I feel it allows for more accessibility with weapons at close range and thus taking on 10 zombies isn't such a big deal.

More loot = More players happy to die:
I'm sure there was a level of loot increase over the beta stress tests.  A coastal spawn in Svet and a quick run through the Docks, train station and onward to the Military Checkpoint and I had: full army fatigues, camo assault backpack, silenced scorpion with clips and ammo, AKM with clips and ammo, canteen, knives and canned food. Instead of what would of usually been a inland trek, i felt happy to stick near the coast, running into friendlies, bandits, loads of zombies and surprisingly more loot.  In terms of the "survival" genre, I know this sort of change might not suit well, however instead of me going into what I like to call "Rambo/Predator mode" where I get kitted up, and then use the jungle to stalk the prey of gunfire. I was comforted in the fact that "even if some prick KOS's me i'll be able to reloot to my standards in less than 25 -40 mins." I'm sure the feeling was mutual between stress testers as I met more people in Dayz (even a 3 way meet up at Altar station over walky talkies) during this test than 2-3 years of casual playing who all agreed that the reduced "harshness" is great.

At this point in time, DayZ upon release will be competing with titles such as PUBG and Arma 3/(4?) who not only have a similar layout/orientation of game to casual players but offer the "survival" element in either a simple (pubg) or heavily realistic (arma series). This being the case people coming to play this game again will want an experience somewhere in the middle. We don't want to be drowing in M4's with scopes and silencers, however, we don't want to be using a single shot rifle for 5 hours. This beta gave me (at least) that experience of a nicely balanced loot table. 
 

Some objects such as paddock fences/torn wire fences near radio towers/military fences that have gaps cause random height problems:

We noticed that running along a fence line that has a tear or a small gap, you may get a sudden "jump" and you will be booted into the sky, luckily both times this happened to us it didn't kill us, but did cause a LOT of damage.


Walkie Talkies are AWESOME: Broadcast System ready to go 

I found one early on in a spawn, left it on for a good 20 mins, heard a faint crackle of "anyone out there?" with lots of static, we both managed to tell each other to "get higher" and once we did the signal became clear. To give you an estimate on range, I was just outside Dolina and my walky talky pal was in Kamy, once we were at height the communication was perfect - The brutal reality of isolation however was reminded when my battery ran flat. :( I managed to relay a message before I lost power that I would be camping in Altar for the night and trying to see if I could get the broadcast system working. Alas, a generator is needed to do this but the <F> use function was ready to go.

Zombie Spawns - AI - etc:

This was the very first thing I noticed coming from the earlier version. Zombie movement and behaviour has changed slightly. First off and foremost is I like the feeling of approaching/engaging the infected without so much "oh god what will they do now?" - They definitely "search" you out now, noises and little things you do can really affect their LOS. They also appear to not get stuck/glitch through AS MANY walls now, now it used to be say, a 1 in 5 chance that the infected you just aggro'd will be able to run right through to you regardless of the building you are. In the recent test I only found 2 buildings that didn't work. A side part of the gate house building at Green Mountain - a zombie ran right through it, and a small house in Vyshoe however this COULD of been a small amount of lag/desync. The first one however I was in a closed room for a good 30 secs before I heard a "rwoaaaaar" and it Usain Bolted me in the face. 

Zombies seem to drop more stuff at the moment. I found food/ammo and supplies on them in amounts a lot more promosing that .62, it made me want to hunt them out. Dropping 60 bullets from a two story in a quant town to decimate all the infected is now a suitable option albeit that maybe only a town or checkpoint away I can get plenty of ammo again, this then draws people to my location - walky talkies are used  to confirm gunshots etc - you meet people etc. I felt that the use of melee weapons was too heavily relied upon in previous versions manly because of the zombie AI and this caused a general steeped quietness, and any gunshots heard are reserved for thought of PvP and thus a majority of players (especially solo players) stay away from. 



Hunger & Thirst and Temperature:

Could too many factors be too uncompromising for a video game? Although I love a challenge it puzzled me how in .62 I could be in Forest, raining wet hot and thirsty after drinking water and lying down. It was obviously a combination of my clothes etc but none the less the look of running around with no pants on to keep a mechanic happy and satisfied left me feeling a little un-immersed. The removal of wet/temp in the stress test was actually welcomed by me - although not completely, the idea that to me some level of restraint to that particular mechanic and maybe an addition of armour to others with both force players to loot and acclimatise accordingly, say, a hiking jacket bringing absolute comfort and pleasure in both weight, waterproofness and temperature however if someone happens to shoot you, you will be punished for wearing so. On the other hand, an Army jacket would undoubtedly be waterproof and its material would protect your from gunfire more than a hiking jacket, however it would get hot and would be heavier to wear... Thus making your sprint bar smaller, more drain on food/water. 
I would rather see player punished for being cold/hot via their thirst/hunger bar before health/movement - unless all 4 factors are critical. 


mind you, all these are just my newish opinion on the game. i've done a lot of reading and understand that the active community are passionate about its hardcore roots and I respect that and look forward to playing more of the game in what ever form it gets in .63

peace


 






 

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In my opinion Raiding should be hardest thing to do ingame ( depends on base "Security level" i guess if there will be few ) and should take on average 10 hours for 1 person to get the tools  ( way less if you're with vehicle and team ). 

For example to craft some charge for raiding there could be like 3 needed parts that spawns lets say only in Balota ( e.g. used to manufacture explosive powder ) and Tisy ( e.g. used to manufacture breaching charge parts ) and 3rd part/required gear to craft for example is somewhere in the Berezino. So players would have to move back and forth till they find what they need and it would spread players across the map also giving some "goal" in the game.
738842951283965fdb47d0ee59246ebb-jpg.jpg

Thing is that nobody gonna build bases if raiding will be easy, because whats the point to build it if all your base and loot will be stolen the next morning when you login?
Imagine you are a squad of 20 people, you build a base for a month, you gather insanely large amounts of loot, and then some bambi finds ur base and steals it after looting few towns.

Edited by exacomvm

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10 hours ago, Solopopo said:

Stop sprinting when you can't afford it. You will notice in the lower right hand corner that the food and thirst decrease indicator becomes red when you are sprinting. 

Exile does have pretty awesome base features. It's inevitable that they will eventually come to DayZ. Modders will certainly add this kind of stuff if it is lacking. As for rotating items, I don't think that is something we will see the devs deliver. They have redesigned carrying containers. Some are short and tall, others are wide and stubby. The ability to rotate items would the work they did designing the different carrying containers.

i am definitely hoping for some modded goodies! Exile 2 would be the dream. Have the devs discussed adding new maps as well? How good would it be if we got Takistan remastered for Infusion? :-)

Edited by Caatalyst

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4 hours ago, exacomvm said:

In my opinion Raiding should be hardest thing to do ingame ( depends on base "Security level" i guess if there will be few ) and should take on average 10 hours for 1 person to get the tools  ( way less if you're with vehicle and team ). 

For example to craft some charge for raiding there could be like 3 needed parts that spawns lets say only in Balota ( e.g. used to manufacture explosive powder ) and Tisy ( e.g. used to manufacture breaching charge parts ) and 3rd part/required gear to craft for example is somewhere in the Berezino. So players would have to move back and forth till they find what they need and it would spread players across the map also giving some "goal" in the game.
738842951283965fdb47d0ee59246ebb-jpg.jpg

Thing is that nobody gonna build bases if raiding will be easy, because whats the point to build it if all your base and loot will be stolen the next morning when you login?
Imagine you are a squad of 20 people, you build a base for a month, you gather insanely large amounts of loot, and then some bambi finds ur base and steals it after looting few towns.

I really like this idea! Plenty of risk even with the production of raiding tools.

Also like you said - Security level should play a factor in the raiding requirements as well. 

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5 hours ago, exacomvm said:

IThing is that nobody gonna build bases if raiding will be easy, because whats the point to build it if all your base and loot will be stolen the next morning when you login?
Imagine you are a squad of 20 people, you build a base for a month, you gather insanely large amounts of loot, and then some bambi finds ur base and steals it after looting few towns.

This is indeed the important part and a huge challenge to get right.

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About the Raiding system. 

  • If you look at Crowfall which is an massive mmo (massive multiplayer game - thousands of players in the same world)  - you`ve limited windows you can attack another POI (Points of interest) or a castle with siege equipment and it has been used since the old Shadowbane game since 2003 with success. And in Conan Exiles another open sandbox world with bases have also used own time schedule with fire bottles which can damage structure, and they have own unique windows when your base can be damaged and need defense on different server settings. And that means you can plan it and defend your base more effective in that vulnerable window when your material required to build a base can be damaged for instant, and people stop getting frustrated getting raided when they are offline or sleeping if you can set a window when the raiding system is active and all bases on the server is vulnerable for instant to have a simple model. But such a system can be quite detailed as well - it depends how much time and effort put into a raiding system to get it more interesting and inviting to create a base for instant. Maybe you get a minor bonus and you`ve slept better inside the base so you consume less food that day when you loged out inside a base like a soft skill. It`s just an example how to create it more interesting in a sandbox environment like Dayz.    

 

 

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7 hours ago, exacomvm said:

In my opinion Raiding should be hardest thing to do ingame ( depends on base "Security level" i guess if there will be few ) and should take on average 10 hours for 1 person to get the tools  ( way less if you're with vehicle and team ). 

For example to craft some charge for raiding there could be like 3 needed parts that spawns lets say only in Balota ( e.g. used to manufacture explosive powder ) and Tisy ( e.g. used to manufacture breaching charge parts ) and 3rd part/required gear to craft for example is somewhere in the Berezino. So players would have to move back and forth till they find what they need and it would spread players across the map also giving some "goal" in the game.
738842951283965fdb47d0ee59246ebb-jpg.jpg

Thing is that nobody gonna build bases if raiding will be easy, because whats the point to build it if all your base and loot will be stolen the next morning when you login?
Imagine you are a squad of 20 people, you build a base for a month, you gather insanely large amounts of loot, and then some bambi finds ur base and steals it after looting few towns.

Another wonderful solution for "goals" in DayZ. Very good idea mate! :) I hope the devs will make some notes of this topic here, some great ideas here have to be in the game and we all know it would suit perfectly to the DayZ genre! <3 :)

Netherless we should never forget that DayZ has such a unique experience, so it should also stay in an unique way of immersion and experience :)

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