PLEASE -don't- change the new reloading mechanics!

[Mr_Joe 38]

There's a vocal majority of whiners complaining about .63's new reloading mechanics.

PLEASE keep it how it is currently in the stress test version(s). It rewards players that actually prepares themselves (rewarding patience and "slowing down") which is a GREAT thing in this game, it is a SIMULATOR.

The hotbar-reloading method is genius and it REALLY feels DayZ-like; hitting a single key like R should not automatically ready your firearm.  

The hotbar method really simulates the character putting things in easy to reach places-- making their magazines easily accessible to reload.   KEEP IT THIS WAY.  Don't listen to the whiners.  I guarantee you that your guy's true fans love how it is.  

 

Don't appeal to the "returning" whiny self-entitled assholes that criticize anything veering away from the norm.  

Stick to your own flavor! 

[sanguine00 168]

I'm totally on board with the idea of managing each bullet in the mags - that is cool and actually empowering.  But since there is currently no hot-bar/key support for ejecting the mag in the gun, depending on the situation it can be a little awkward.  If I'm not fortunate enough to have multiple mags, then I have to either:

1. make sure the gun is in my hands
2. throw the mag in free inventory slot (or on the ground) from the inventory screen
3. shoulder my gun
4. drag the mag into my hands
5. drag the ammo to the mag to combine and automatically get thrown out of inventory
6. finally left-click and hold to start loading.

or:

1. make sure the gun is in my hands
2. throw the mag in free inventory slot (or on the ground) from the inventory screen
3. throw ammo stack on the ground
4. shoulder my gun
5. drag the mag into my hands
6. look at ammo stack on the ground and left-click and hold to start loading.
7. return ammo to inventory

I think the problem a lot of the "self-entitled assholes" have with this mechanic isn't necessarily with the process of loading the bullets in the mags one-by-one, but what you have to do in certain situations to get to that point.  It's probably not unreasonable to ask that be improved upon.  A suggestion would be that if you hotbar the mag that is currently installed in the gun, then hitting that hotbar key would perform the animation to shoulder your weapon (or place it on the ground if you are double-carrying or don't have inventory space), and place the mag into your hands.  From there you could pick up with step 5 in the first list above.

[HaseDesTodes 315]

5 hours ago, sanguine00 said:

A suggestion would be that if you hotbar the mag that is currently installed in the gun, then hitting that hotbar key would perform the animation to shoulder your weapon (or place it on the ground if you are double-carrying or don't have inventory space), and place the mag into your hands.  From there you could pick up with step 5 in the first list above.

and what wouldn't be especially unrealistic either.

if you have a gun with a mag in it, and you hold the ammo hotkey, your character takes the mag out and puts the gun away. then you hold LMB to load rounds, and when you're done, you take the gun back out and load the mag.

when i think about it, this mechanic competes with loading weapons with an internal magazine (eg. SKS).

without any improvements, it would probably be faster to load 10 rounds (one by one, not with a clip) in an SKS than to get an AKM mag in your hands. now that doesn't really seem "realistic" to me.

[II AJEARLEY II 56]

4 hours ago, sanguine00 said:

1. make sure the gun is in my hands
2. throw the mag in free inventory slot (or on the ground) from the inventory screen
3. throw ammo stack on the ground
4. shoulder my gun
5. drag the mag into my hands
6. look at ammo stack on the ground and left-click and hold to start loading.
7. return ammo to inventory

Best part is you can actually have a gun in slot 1, a mag in slot 2 and 3 and then the loose ammo in 4... When you figure out how to use it like this its so natural... Finally brings use to the whole quick bar!!

Here's an example!!

 

[Vernon_Price 135]

Yes, new reloading mechanics are the best <3 Let's keep them. I'd write more about it but i'm kinda in the middle of a match in lol, sooo. :D

Edited April 29, 2018 by Vernon_Price

[HaseDesTodes 315]

2 hours ago, ajearley said:

Best part is you can actually have a gun in slot 1, a mag in slot 2 and 3 and then the loose ammo in 4... When you figure out how to use it like this its so natural... Finally brings use to the whole quick bar!!

Here's an example!!

 

but you obviously missed the point:

what do you do if you have ONLY ONE mag?

with 2 or more mags it's simple, but with one you will have to fiddle around with opening the inventory

[Gobbokirk 546]

4 hours ago, HaseDesTodes said:

 

but you obviously missed the point:

what do you do if you have ONLY ONE mag?

with 2 or more mags it's simple, but with one you will have to fiddle around with opening the inventory

Makes perfect sense really.
Also gives you a good reason to look for that 2nd mag.

[II AJEARLEY II 56]

3 hours ago, HaseDesTodes said:

 

but you obviously missed the point:

what do you do if you have ONLY ONE mag?

with 2 or more mags it's simple, but with one you will have to fiddle around with opening the inventory

I think the idea is to bring more use to the quick bar..

I see what you mean though but it should work if you have the one mag that's loaded into your pistol holding say HTOKEY 2 down would unload the Mag (you would still have the weapon in your hand)... then you could press 2 to have the mag in your hands... 

[HaseDesTodes 315]

3 minutes ago, Gobbokirk said:

Makes perfect sense really.
Also gives you a good reason to look for that 2nd mag.

i can't seen how this makes any sense.

if you already can:

-take the magazine out and put it away, THEN take a different one and put it in the gun (= what happens when you reload with the quickbar)

action 1: take out mag

action 2: Put mag in pockets

action 3: take (different) mag out

action 4: insert mag in gun

-put the gun away (with no magazine in it)

action 5: shoulder gun

-take a gun in your hands

action 6: put a gun in your hands

-load a mag with rounds

action 7: put rounds in a mag in you hands

why shouldn't it then be possible, to

a) take the magazine out of the gun and put it in you pockets

actions 1 and 2

b) take the magazine out of the gun and put the gun away

actions 1 and 5

c) take the magazine out of the gun and put the gun away, then load ammo and put the mag back in 

actions 1,5,7,4,6

 

So your character is already capable of doing all those things, but we have currently no way to tell him to do simple 2 step procedures, even if he can do 4 step procedures already.

 

and there is already a good enough reason to carry multiple magazines.

it takes very long to refill a magazine, much longer than it takes to reload.

 

3 minutes ago, ajearley said:

I see what you mean though but it should work if you have the one mag that's loaded into your pistol holding say HTOKEY 2 down would unload the Mag (you would still have the weapon in your hand)... then you could press 2 to have the mag in your hands... 

 

yes, and that's exactly the point.

it should be possible, but it isn't.

neither sanguine nor I were saying, that the quickbar shouldn't be used for reloading.

we even criticized that you have to open the inventory, in order to reload when you only have on mag.

i additionally suggested less cumbersome ways to get to the same result (put gun away, but keep mag in hand). because this is how you would probably do it irl. not everything has to be bad because it's more simple. especially not if compared to an unnecessary cumbersome alternative.

the only thing that has to be kept in mind, is that the user interaction has to be straightforward so that the player can know what will happen if they press/hold key in what situation.

[II AJEARLEY II 56]

45 minutes ago, HaseDesTodes said:

yes, and that's exactly the point.

it should be possible, but it isn't.

neither sanguine nor I were saying, that the quickbar shouldn't be used for reloading.

we even criticized that you have to open the inventory, in order to reload when you only have on mag.

i additionally suggested less cumbersome ways to get to the same result (put gun away, but keep mag in hand). because this is how you would probably do it irl. not everything has to be bad because it's more simple. especially not if compared to an unnecessary cumbersome alternative.

the only thing that has to be kept in mind, is that the user interaction has to be straightforward so that the player can know what will happen if they press/hold key in what situation.

I'm not sure what you're pointing out.. I never said that you thought the quick bar should'nt be used... I simply said it is possible (but with 2 mags)..

 

Also i'm not sure what direction your going in when you want the weapon to automatically holstered... 

1 hour ago, ajearley said:

if you have the one mag that's loaded into your pistol holding say HTOKEY 2 down would unload the Mag (you would still have the weapon in your hand)... then you could press 2 to have the mag in your hands... 

^ This would be the most sane way to do it... The user controlling the player and its actions is whats so great about DayZ.. So having the weapon automatically holstered would remove this aspect... What you were suggesting is that that first initial press of "2" or "the hotkey" would unload the magazine,  holster the weapon and put the mag in your hands.. I was just stating that extra step that would be needed which is custom to DayZ...

[HaseDesTodes 315]

19 minutes ago, ajearley said:

I'm not sure what you're pointing out.. I never said that you thought the quick bar should'nt be used... I simply said it is possible (but with 2 mags)..

but you later said:

"I think the idea is to bring more use to the quick bar.."

which means to me in that context, that you think that we want to use the quickbar rather less than more. otherwise i would see no reason to point this out.

that's why i pointed out, that we had the same opinion on quickbar use. simply to make sure we had no misunderstandings in terms of opinion.

 

29 minutes ago, ajearley said:

This would be the most sane way to do it... The user controlling the player and its actions is whats so great about DayZ.. So having the weapon automatically holstered would remove this aspect... What you were suggesting is that that first initial press of "2" or "the hotkey" would unload the magazine,  holster the weapon and put the mag in your hands.. I was just stating that extra step that would be needed which is custom to DayZ...

my idea was:

gun loaded with a mag is in your hands. gun is on hotkey X, mag on Y and ammo on Z.

you have shot a few rounds and want to fill up the mag again.

a) hold Z -> character takes the mag out and puts the gun away.

  a1) confirm with LMB to load ammo as usual

  a2) now hold X, to take the gun back in your hands and load the mag

  a3) press any other hotkey to put the mag away and use that item

b) hold Y : character puts the mag in the inventory

c) press Y/Z: no effect

d) 2x X/Y: no effect

e) 2x Z: take the stack of ammo to the hands (put gun away)

 

i first thought, if 2x Y should be the same as a), but without the "LMB to load ammo" part, and i'm still not sure if it wouldn't be smart. it could act as a failsafe for accidental key pressing (for all items that can be used along with the gun).

imagine you want to load ammo as in a), change your mind, but you already pressed the key. so (with 1x key bound to "take item in hands") you would put the gun away and take the ammo out. with 2x key method nothing would happen (as it intended).

 

i don't know if this last stuff ( c,d,e) would become to counter-intuitive, but since it's not my job to decide on this stuff, i can write this stuff here, and maybe the devs discuss this and "improve" the system.

[II AJEARLEY II 56]

1 minute ago, HaseDesTodes said:

but you later said:

"I think the idea is to bring more use to the quick bar.."

which means to me in that context, that you think that we want to use the quickbar rather less than more. otherwise i would see no reason to point this out.

that's why i pointed out, that we had the same opinion on quickbar use. simply to make sure we had no misunderstandings in terms of opinion.

sorry no.. By this is mean currently in 0.62 people only really use the quick bar for Primary, Secondary and Melee 

[HaseDesTodes 315]

8 minutes ago, ajearley said:

sorry no.. By this is mean currently in 0.62 people only really use the quick bar for Primary, Secondary and Melee 

that might have been what you wanted to express, but as a response to what you have quoted, i'm not sure how i should have gotten what you meant.

• that guy: *complains about not being able to the mag out of the gun /reload with only 1 mag without opening the inventory*
• you: "Best part is you can actually have a gun in slot 1, a mag in slot 2 and 3 and then the loose ammo in 4... When you figure out how to use it like this its so natural... Finally brings use to the whole quick bar!! Here's an example!!"
• me: "what do you do if you have ONLY ONE mag? with 2 or more mags it's simple, but with one you will have to fiddle around with opening the inventory"
• you: "I think the idea is to bring more use to the quick bar.."

don't get me wrong. i'm not trying to blame you for anything (if there is even anything that someone in this discussion could be blamed for). i'm just trying to make sure, that you understand, why i didn't understand what you were trying to tell me.

[Gobbokirk 546]

4 hours ago, HaseDesTodes said:

that might have been what you wanted to express, but as a response to what you have quoted, i'm not sure how i should have gotten what you meant.

• that guy: *complains about not being able to the mag out of the gun /reload with only 1 mag without opening the inventory*
• you: "Best part is you can actually have a gun in slot 1, a mag in slot 2 and 3 and then the loose ammo in 4... When you figure out how to use it like this its so natural... Finally brings use to the whole quick bar!! Here's an example!!"
• me: "what do you do if you have ONLY ONE mag? with 2 or more mags it's simple, but with one you will have to fiddle around with opening the inventory"
• you: "I think the idea is to bring more use to the quick bar.."

don't get me wrong. i'm not trying to blame you for anything (if there is even anything that someone in this discussion could be blamed for). i'm just trying to make sure, that you understand, why i didn't understand what you were trying to tell me.

So basically all we need is a way to get the mag out of the gun with the quick bar.
Should be a fair enough request.
You already get an empty one back in the bar, so some link to a slot for your current one if you so choose.
As you said, it already works fine with 2 so that's really only one function we're missing.

[scriptfactory 620]

The system is a bit complicated for my tastes. I feel like "activating" bullets via the hotbar should just start reloading any empty held magazine (internal or external).

[Deadboy (DayZ) 21]

You know what, I'm good with the system too, but it would be a nice idea to now have 2 hands, not just one rectangle for hand/s. This way it'll feel more natural to have a mag in one and bullets in the other.

I'll all for having these mechanics, but improving them would be nice. For example, please don't force players to keep holding down keys, but give them a start click and abort click. Or come up with another way. Started a thread about that, too. It's a lot of extra strain for some players, and with age, you'll find this kind of thing increasingly more and more uncomfortable.

[ImageCtrl 719]

On 29.4.2018 at 2:50 PM, HaseDesTodes said:

 

but you obviously missed the point:

what do you do if you have ONLY ONE mag?

with 2 or more mags it's simple, but with one you will have to fiddle around with opening the inventory

 

At the moment true.

I guess that we have to press the button with the mag (in a future build).

Example:

You press the "2 key".

You see the animation that the mag gets removed.

You hold the mag in your hand.

 

 

Edited May 8, 2018 by ImageCtrl