Identify players with Binoculars, Longrange scope etc.

[Aim-iliO 7]

Some time ago we had the thoughts on Oldschool, that there are too many Bandits and not enough "good people" so that "good people" have to turn bandits to survive on Oldschool.

We thought about how to make the bandits live harder and people more interested to not just KOS.

So we came up with the WANTED! section in our forum and this is how we started (can be seen here: http://oldschooldayz.net/index.php/topic,281.0.html) :

1. While reading the forum posts (nearly every forum posts) and whatching your videos we chose who did things to set a bonty on his head.

2. The hight of the bounty depends on the difficulty of the act or how mean, unfair something had been. For example for just KOS the bounty would be the lowest. While robbing someone by taking only valuable things and letting him life with his gun would get the highest bounty because it is the most difficult way of beeing a bandit.

3. The bounty will increase by multiple acts and be completely deleted by aproved kills of the bandits till they disapear from the Wanted list.

4. Bountyhunters will have to aprove by a screenshot or video with a check pulse or the confirmation of the killed Bandit that he earns the Bounty.

5. The bounty will be payed as soon as possible and can be negociated to change for example a 60 Bullets to 20 bullets and a PU scope if a PU scope should be available at that moment. The double ammount of a bounty will be payed if there is a video proof that the bandit has been humilated, by make him strip naked, take ALL his valuable stuff and chase him away wearing only his shoes.

6. Bandits on the "Wanted!" list can not get the bounty of other bandits and they can not increase or decrease the bounty of themselves or other wanted bandits.

7. If a bandit gets killed or disapears from the wanted list, he will not get any longer searched. A kill of this player who is not longer known as bandit, can get the killer a bounty if it is confirmed.

8. The following areas are considered hostile and therefore you don't get a bounty for shooting people there.

Balota Airfield
Kamensk Military Base
Myshkino Military Base (tents)
Northwest Airfield
Pavlovo Military Base
Veresnik Military Base
Zelenogorsk Military Base

Here is a link to the gallery with maps of the military areas.

So if you wanna rise your bounty, you will need to stop camping these areas, you will have to come back to the more civilized areas. This way we might bring back action to place like Novo or Berezino.

At the moment this is only an additional fun factor and we know that people who are not proud of beeing bandits will not post some acts which could bring them on the wanted list. They don't have to.

At the beginning this worked pretty well. People started to move together as bountyhunters and uploading pics and videos of killed bandits with a Bounty on their head. But Oldschoolers adapted pretty fast at the situation, 
And Bandits with bounty on their heads started leaving the coast as fast as possible to not get hold up by a bountyhunter, they kept away from roads and dangerous locations till they were geard again.
The ammount of hunted bandits reduced drasticaly and Bountyhunters got also Bountys on their heads for killing the wrong people. People lost the interest of the Wanted! section in the forum and the whole section died together with the bounty hunters.

This could in my opinion be interesting again, if there would exist a posibility of identifying people over distance. For example, if you look trough binox for 2 seconds directly at a person and he is closer than, lets say 400 meters and there is no hitbox in between (tree, bushes, walls, etc.) the Name of the player pops up. If you are using a long range scope it has to be closer than 300, with ACOG and PSO's 200 , with pu scope 100 meters.

This would give headhunters the posibility of identifying their "prey" .

What do you think about that Idea?

[Parazight 1599]

Seems like a lot of work.  And the bounty (items) isn't that great.  Maybe the bounty should be fame/notoriety?

I think it's a noble effort to reduce KOS on your (private?) server.  Stopping KOS is like trying to turn the tide in a sandbox that only has players and ways to kill other players.

[thunter 13]

It sounds like a bit of a witch hunt, and that usually isn't fun for anyone...

I think the better solution would be to establish a bit more of a community on the server by inviting friendly players to come and either convert or weed out the KOSers. I know I wouldn't be to bothered to hunt down a random bandit for some loot that I could get myself within 15 mins of looting a military area. Plus I don't actually think it would solve any problem. Giving the bandits more of a reason to KOS will not be worth it in the long run.

My theory on the matter? Educate, inspire, and convert. Show the KOSers a good time with good RP or group play and they won't go back to their KOS ways again. 

[Aim-iliO 7]

1 hour ago, Parazight said:

Seems like a lot of work.  And the bounty (items) isn't that great.  Maybe the bounty should be fame/notoriety?

I think it's a noble effort to reduce KOS on your (private?) server.  Stopping KOS is like trying to turn the tide in a sandbox that only has players and ways to kill other players.

This is not about the bounty system, the bounty system is only to show the different possibilities of the usage of the binoculars for identifying other players. We also WANT kos on Oldschoolday. Without KOS it would be completely booring and without any risk to travel trough Chernarus. KOS is part of dayz. The Headhunter thing was just something people could do, but dont have to.

 

42 minutes ago, thunter said:

It sounds like a bit of a witch hunt, and that usually isn't fun for anyone...

I think the better solution would be to establish a bit more of a community on the server by inviting friendly players to come and either convert or weed out the KOSers. I know I wouldn't be to bothered to hunt down a random bandit for some loot that I could get myself within 15 mins of looting a military area. Plus I don't actually think it would solve any problem. Giving the bandits more of a reason to KOS will not be worth it in the long run.

My theory on the matter? Educate, inspire, and convert. Show the KOSers a good time with good RP or group play and they won't go back to their KOS ways again. 

Why a witch hunt? People even posted their kills and betrays to get a high bounty. They did not change their ingame names or anything else to escape the bounty. Everything on Oldschool is voluntary, if you don't like just leave the server. Noone got forced. There had been a lot of players who did not like it and just did not participate. We don't want to educate the players, everyone should be free to play how he wants. If KOS or betraying players, hunting them, forcefeed them worms, whatever. You always have the choice to just "Exit" and play on an other server . This suggestion is not what we would make out of it but how it could improve the gameplay. Would it imporve the gameplay? Definitely ? Would it be hard to implement? No Idea. But some time ago when you had a bottle in your hand you could try to forcefeed someone who was pretty far away but it showed you "Player is too far away or something" . So I think it should be possible.

 

[Parazight 1599]

Oh, I see now. 

I think you've already figured out the solution to your problem (identifying players at 100+ meters).  I'm not sure if it is something that's appropriate for the vanilla standalone, but seems like a great idea for a private server/mod.  I certainly hope that something like that would be possible, if players wanted it.

[Aim-iliO 7]

54 minutes ago, Parazight said:

Oh, I see now. 

I think you've already figured out the solution to your problem (identifying players at 100+ meters).  I'm not sure if it is something that's appropriate for the vanilla standalone, but seems like a great idea for a private server/mod.  I certainly hope that something like that would be possible, if players wanted it.

??? Sorry, I don't get it... what do you mean with figured out my problem. I don't think I realy have a problem. It was more of "Hmmmm, how could the gameplay get more interesting without making some rules or other things which provide server admins with more work" . Then I thought about something a Squad told me. That they know that I am allways wearing Black cargos, Riders Jacket, black cowboy hat and black facemask. And when they see someone wearing that stuff, they hunt him, because they know that that guy has good stuff with him. And yes, they kill and killed me a lot. I allways carry stuff inside cooking pots an frying pans so that they get some not ruined loot. Others identify myself over a distance and do the oposite. They know that I am trustworthy and have allways good stuff to trade with me. I whised everyone would have a unique outfit he would choose to identify him as the one he is to make friendly or agressive interactions more chalanging / intersting. In reallive you would recognize someone over the distance over his body and face, but that is not possible in this game. Thats how I came up with the Idea of Identifying players over bigger distances without the ugly stuff in other games having the Name over ones head. Squads on Oldschool like each other and others hate each other. This would it make easyer for them to team up if they meet somewhere or fight each other. Lonewolfs could decide if they can aproach the "Peacekeepers" or better stay away from the "Public Enemys" . Yes, I am sure, that would be something appropiate for the vanilla standalone.

 

PS: That was an older topic on Oldschooldayz.net. Today a bounty of 60 rounds .308 would be interesting for some players.

Edited August 8, 2016 by Aim-iliO

[Parazight 1599]

33 minutes ago, Aim-iliO said:

 Thats how I came up with the Idea of Identifying players over bigger distances without the ugly stuff in other games having the Name over ones head.

I'm sorry, what is it that you're suggesting, specifically?  The title of this thread indicates that we should be able to identify specific players with binoculars/scopes without having nameplates. (it is in the suggestion forum, afterall)

[Aim-iliO 7]

Exactly, the suggestion is : "This could in my opinion be interesting again, if there would exist a posibility of identifying people over distance. For example, if you look trough binox for 2 seconds directly at a person and he is closer than, lets say 400 meters and there is no hitbox in between (tree, bushes, walls, etc.) the Name of the player pops up. If you are using a long range scope it has to be closer than 300, with ACOG and PSO's 200 , with pu scope 100 meters."

[-Gews- 7443]

I wouldn't like this in vanilla, maybe okay for mod/private hive. It would have to be a very specific aim point to get ID without possibility of accidentally discovering previously unnoticed players, and no ID provided for people with covered faces or who are turned away, etc.

[sneakydude 480]

Not bad idea, i know modded will adapt a name tag thing, but the bino's and scopes long range might be a better system then seeing who is on the map.

It makes it more immersive knowing who is following you or running to the chopper you just looted.

I am game for knowing who is who by long range devices.

[Aim-iliO 7]

6 hours ago, -Gews- said:

I wouldn't like this in vanilla, maybe okay for mod/private hive. It would have to be a very specific aim point to get ID without possibility of accidentally discovering previously unnoticed players, and no ID provided for people with covered faces or who are turned away, etc.

It should not be a problem, as force drink only apeared if you had direct line of sight. If someone was sitting in a tree and you still could see him, the forcedrink did not work, because he was in the hitbox of the tree. The same when you was not able to hold the aimpoint directly over the body. So, discovering players should be impossible, if you have to hold the aimpoint 2 seconds over the body of someone who is in no hitbox. Why exactly did you not want to have it in the vanilla?

[sneakydude 480]

11 hours ago, -Gews- said:

I wouldn't like this in vanilla, maybe okay for mod/private hive. It would have to be a very specific aim point to get ID without possibility of accidentally discovering previously unnoticed players, and no ID provided for people with covered faces or who are turned away, etc.

You sure? might be able to help identify who is speed hacking, or walking through walls. Then you can submit a complaint to the server dev's.

Since half the tools we have now aren't much use.

[Aim-iliO 7]

13 minutes ago, sneakydude said:

You sure? might be able to help identify who is speed hacking, or walking through walls. Then you can submit a complaint to the server dev's.

Since half the tools we have now aren't much use.

Not a good argument for it. Players should be aimed at for at least 2 seconds, maybe longer, that the name gets visible. Inside a wall or behind cover it should not work. And to aim at a speedhacker who is moving VERY fast, should also be a problem.

[sneakydude 480]

2 seconds might be more then enough, its more of a chance we have to help identify these.

1........2......name pops up. Identifying the person running across a field. wall person is a hard situation, since most of the problems are with dayz and not the client on this level.

 

But that's not the primary use of it in public, and shouldn't be. I agree on a normal playing level we should be able to enjoy the suggestion you have. Its a good one, and it makes you smile when your being tracked by a friend :)

PVP wise, its awesome.... so you do not kill your group buddy long range.... did you just shoot me? opps...

[Aim-iliO 7]

The 2 seconds (or more) are only for not beeing able to just watch trough a bunch of trees and be able to see the name of the Guilly guy crouching in front of a pinetree. Which  would not have been spottet without his name popping up. I am not sure if 2 seconds are enough. If someone is sitting IN a tree the name should not popp up, because he his covered in the hitbox of a tree.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Aim-iliO

[pilgrim* 3514]

what happened to FRIENDLY FIRE ? - I thought that was part of "REALITY?" - Remember? All that shouting "who are you?" - people running at you yelling "don't shoot, don't shoot, it's me" and then that stalking and whispering "I think that's the dude" - "Im sure it's him, it's him, waste the bastard" - "ok we got the wrong guy" .. "damn"..

WHY should you EVER know who is some guy running across a field 300m away?

[sneakydude 480]

33 minutes ago, pilgrim* said:

what happened to FRIENDLY FIRE ? - I thought that was part of "REALITY?" - Remember? All that shouting "who are you?" - people running at you yelling "don't shoot, don't shoot, it's me" and then that stalking and whispering "I think that's the dude" - "Im sure it's him, it's him, waste the bastard" - "ok we got the wrong guy" .. "damn"..

WHY should you EVER know who is some guy running across a field 300m away?

at 300m you can see your friend and at 500m you can see your friend with bino's and scopes. Most people can identify their person is by facial features. The 2 second idea is good as long as your on top of the person. If you glance, you can still usually reconize 1 person out of a crowd of 20 people.

So really doesn't matter to me, and i probably would desync shoot you anyways lol

 

Maybe 2 seconds under 500m? only

[sneakydude 480]

I should say also anything for modded servers like this idea is better then everyones name coming up.

As a scripter i like this idea very much, because in arma 3 epoch, exile you usually went with clan named scripts.

[pilgrim* 3514]

3 minutes ago, sneakydude said:

at 300m you can see your friend and at 500m you can see your friend with bino's and scopes. Most people can identify their person is by facial features. The 2 second idea is good as long as your on top of the person. If you glance, you can still usually reconize 1 person out of a crowd of 20 people.

So really doesn't matter to me, and i probably would desync shoot you anyways lol

 

Maybe 2 seconds under 500m? only

Are you SURE (life or death) in action at 300m you can tell that is definitely your buddy lying on his face crawling in the dirt, dodging about, in the rocks under the bushes, hiding behind the tree, sticking his head round the trashcan, running for his life - ?? wow!  (makes wearing uniforms almost obsolete don't it?)- AND Take NOTE -  in the game we already HAVE different faces, different clothes, different equipment and (you know the player) different ways of moving and acting.. if that TINY DOUBT left after ALL THAT ain't enough for you, then why not let's have a GENERALLY much less realistic game, (more like the auto aim and unlimited ammo games ) with different colored teams, different color flags over their heads?.. each bounty VALUE could have a different colored shirt, ya know??  .. etc etc etc .. we could call it "Bounty Hunter " Each time you hit someone you could see the hit points float up out of them   -10, -20, -10... then there would be NO more after-the-fact arguments about if you hit a player or not.. (hey they could have a red line over their head hen you aimed at them to show how much 'life' they had left.. ??)

..

FOR Myself - it would be better if there were NO NAMES in the player list AT ALL - just  *******  BUT that dont make NO difference anyway as everyone who joins a game together is on team speak TOGETHER and the REAL AIM of DAYZ  is to shoot everyone who is not on YOUR Teamspeak.. Maybe add that the more bounty you collect the faster you can gear up next time? or shoot a killer and he drops free guns or ammo or life points?

.. this game was once quite original and wanted to keep away from ALL the OBVIOUS stuff

.. NOW I'm sure Ive heard of games like this around before.. can't quite remember the names, there are so MANY .. little flags over the head saying the name of each player.. hmm.. where was that?? - BUT sure go ahead if that's what you want, makes me chuck up, but I'm just one out of a million, my opinion is worth Ziltch. I don't play a lot now because its all "gear up" [any way you can *cough*] and squad deathmatch .. Average player age has gone down by about 15 years, I think. Good luck to you all.

[sneakydude 480]

21 minutes ago, pilgrim* said:

Are you SURE (life or death) in action at 300m you can tell that is definitely your buddy lying on his face crawling in the dirt, dodging about, in the rocks under the bushes, hiding behind the tree, sticking his head round the trashcan, running for his life - ?? wow!  (makes wearing uniforms almost obsolete don't it?)- AND Take NOTE -  in the game we already HAVE different faces, different clothes, different equipment and (you know the player) different ways of moving and acting.. if that TINY DOUBT left after ALL THAT ain't enough for you, then why not let's have a GENERALLY much less realistic game, (more like the auto aim and unlimited ammo games ) with different colored teams, different color flags over their heads?.. each bounty VALUE could have a different colored shirt, ya know??  .. etc etc etc .. we could call it "Bounty Hunter " Each time you hit someone you could see the hit points float up out of them   -10, -20, -10... then there would be NO more after-the-fact arguments about if you hit a player or not.. (hey they could have a red line over their head hen you aimed at them to show how much 'life' they had left.. ??)

..

FOR Myself - it would be better if there were NO NAMES in the player list AT ALL - just  *******  BUT that dont make NO difference anyway as everyone who joins a game together is on team speak TOGETHER and the REAL AIM of DAYZ  is to shoot everyone who is not on YOUR Teamspeak.. Maybe add that the more bounty you collect the faster you can gear up next time? or shoot a killer and he drops free guns or ammo or life points?

.. this game was once quite original and wanted to keep away from ALL the OBVIOUS stuff

.. NOW I'm sure Ive heard of games like this around before.. can't quite remember the names, there are so MANY .. little flags over the head saying the name of each player.. hmm.. where was that?? - BUT sure go ahead if that's what you want, makes me chuck up, but I'm just one out of a million, my opinion is worth Ziltch. I don't play a lot now because its all "gear up" [any way you can *cough*] and squad deathmatch .. Average player age has gone down by about 15 years, I think. Good luck to you all.

who said ground dirt naps?

ok maybe 100m, 300m to 500m with scopes, binos. Your right, was putting the binos in and thinking 300m 100m would be a squint view.

Edited August 9, 2016 by sneakydude

[Aim-iliO 7]

@pilgrim* The bounty thing was something Oldschool tried to reduce the KOS, but it has only slightly to do with the suggestion. The Idea is to reduce the shooting and increase the interaction. Most of the people shoot because of "gearfear", If you would know that the guy at 400 meters is the cool guy you chattet in the forum with (like me) . Wouldn't you like to contact him instead killing him? Or lets say you are the friendliest guy on a server, but you got killed now coutless times by an other squad. Would you not like to trace them, find them and send them some lead greatings without killing innocent people? Maybe it could be an option to be activated and deactivated in the control panel like the aimcross.

[General Zod 1118]

Here we go again, lets punish people for killing and being bandits, the definition of sandbox do whatever you want unforgiving survival word. No one is going to go after some hardened killer for your bullets or a pu scope because it ain't worth it, never will be. 

The screen shots below are made by me, single handedly executing a 5 man squad in novo. 

Want to claim the bounty for my head for some bullets or a scope ? Bring it on. I'll add you to my long long kill list. 

Also being able to recognise players with just a scope is a unrealistic as it can get and I don't think this is where we want this game to go. Not to mention it gives bandits and killers no chance to blend in and disguise. 

[Aim-iliO 7]

Why is it unrealistic with a scope at 100 meters? And with binoculars at 300? And who was talking about punishing kos? Please read the whole topic. I personaly said that we, on Oldschool, want people that KOS. Imagine Noone would KOS any more. Where would be the risk? Read the rules of oldschooldayz.net . There are almost no rules ! Because as you said. Its a sandbox game, everything should be possible. "Not to mention it gives bandits and killers no chance to blend in and disguise." Sorry dude, but this is not true. If you are ashamed of what you did (Others have been proud of getting the highest bounty on their head), you still can change your ingame name. Puff... you disapeared. If I want to be an ashole and infront of the comunity still play the friendly survivor, I can still do it.

 

 

Edited August 9, 2016 by Aim-iliO

[General Zod 1118]

It's unrealistic at any range with any object because that's not something you do without players looking differently. And because that would require morality stat in the game, how does the game tells that I just robbed someone, do we implement so ridiculously complex system that can tell that the guy dropped his gear because I pointed my gun in his general direction? How does it tell my kill was just kos not self defence he's running towards me with first, I don't shoot he knocks me out  i shoot he dies I just became a killer if I can't tell someones intentions neither can the game? This system does noting but punishes players who don't want to be good guys in a way they can't work around, regardless of what we wear and what server we're on we have the same nick name. 

Quote

Imagine Noone would KOS any more

Can't even describe how boring this game would become without the tension of meeting another survivor. What would I have to worry about or fear after I got clothes on my back and a weapon to fend of the zeds if no one kills anymore? Nothing that's what. Do we just all turn into survival hermits, farming, hunting and building tent cities ? I got better things to do with my time. This game needs killers, we are the source of the thrill and adrenaline you get every time you meet a stranger. Take that away and we might as well call this game a "farming simulator with some zombies".

Edited August 9, 2016 by General Zod

[Aim-iliO 7]

"It's unrealistic at any range with any object because that's not something you do without players looking differently" . Exactly. Because in game the players do somehow all look the same (all in military gear with 15 different faces for over 3 mio players) you cant identify specific players. But if you want to have it realistic, than it has to exist an other method to identify players (my suggestion).  In real life you look at someones face and you know if its your neighbour or not. You are talking about getting punished... Show me how you get punished if you can see over a distance of 300 meters who is standing in the middle of a field.

 

"Can't even describe how boring this game would become without the tension of meeting another survivor. What would I have to worry or fear after I got clothes on my back and a weapon to fend of the zeds? Nothing that's what. " Exactly my opinion. But thats what I wrote.  "Imagine Noone would KOS any more. Where would be the risk? Read the rules of oldschooldayz.net . There are almost no rules ! Because as you said. Its a sandbox game, everything should be possible."