Discussion: Would the community at large hound the Devs less if did more low key interactions on the forums?

[narchy 63]

I remember at the start of last year, when the dev sections of the forums were set up, there was a real buzz around the community at large - they were answering little questions, showing off things, replying to ideas with a bit more depth that say, Twitter. It was great! There were people updating consolidated info posts on reddit about what the devs were posting, you'd see it on Facebook etc. 

There was a 'flurry' of interaction through out Q1 2015, but then it sort of tailed off. Reasons?

Possibly that the team members in questions had to prioritise their workloads due to things getting heavy, or possibly they didn't view the feedback/interaction as worth the time. Either way, the majority of the developers haven't posted on the forums in a long time, and even then it's very sparse - the exceptions being the facemen - Hicks, Dustin, SMoss - but the rest not so much. The official forums are the perfect venue for them to be interacting, since they are essentially shielded from the gibbering masses of people who ask them same inane questions, or circlejerk comments over and over, without doing any research in to the game or games development. 

Do you think people would ease off on crying for a Status Report, or a video, or bombarding Twitter if more of the team posted in their official sections on the forum? I believe that was the original purpose behind their creation anyway!

Thoughts? :)

 

[[DGN] Johnny 115]

I love the hell out of DayZ, I spend a lot of time and effort inside and outside of game helping build an experience that compliments the magic that these developers have created. All that said..

I do wish they marketed this game and it's development a little better. Three separate major areas for news and updates is bad business, IMO. Consolidate the efforts and the required moderation into a single forum or blatantly link the forums together. This not only boosts the perceived activity level of DayZ, but optimizes the moderation and viewing load.

Second, do a weekly QNA. Again Star Citizen has done an amazing job with keeping the players informed on the development process. Once you have the basic format, it's incredibly simple to shoot a 20 minute video once a week answering some community questions. You could even go further and create a "subscriber" base, in which donations cover the cost. I know there are plenty of players that would love to see inside sneak peaks and hear from all levels of the development team, even if it's only a few minutes about what they are currently working on.

Thirdly, the above two help create transparency. Which is extremely important for PR, which is important to sell more games, which is important to create a better game and reward those have invested so much time and effort in building that game. If you look on Steams reviews for DayZ, the top 100 or so reviews are just terrible. Absolutely terrible. And that's a trend, which boils back to the development model.

Still, although I have some doubts in it's marketing, this game continues to have my full support, and I'm just happy to have the experience of watching it develop. ^.^

Edited March 3, 2016 by [DGN] Johnny

[St. Jimmy 1631]

Well the forums have been pretty quiet from the devs since the beginning. Rocket was using Reddit and Twitter a lot more. Feels like it all kind of roots in there. Now that we have the DevTracker we haven't been missing much what's going on outside. Would be pretty interesting if we could talk in every topic in the DevTracker and the post won't make the topic rise above others. Or there should've been separate discussion part/topic somewhere else. Bit like Reddit makes topics from some tweets.

I don't believe the overall crying for status reports etc. would be any different even if the devs were the most active forumaholics.

Edited March 3, 2016 by St. Jimmy

[[DGN] Johnny 115]

53 minutes ago, St. Jimmy said:

 

I don't believe the overall crying for status reports etc. would be any different even if the devs were the most active forumaholics.

Definitely agree on that point. There will always be players that whine about "Alpha isn't an excuse for bugs and imbalance". There will always be players convinced that it's vaporware. I suppose the only real target audience that evidence and interaction caters to, are those wanting to follow along which in turn defend the development process, creating that better community environment. I think the issue is, how much of a pain in the arse it is, to track down all the details we're all kinda stuck playing pin the tail on the donkey. IMO, of course.

[philbur 476]

1 hour ago, [DGN] Johnny said:

Definitely agree on that point. There will always be players that whine about "Alpha isn't an excuse for bugs and imbalance". There will always be players convinced that it's vaporware. I suppose the only real target audience that evidence and interaction caters to, are those wanting to follow along which in turn defend the development process, creating that better community environment. I think the issue is, how much of a pain in the arse it is, to track down all the details we're all kinda stuck playing pin the tail on the donkey. IMO, of course.

I agree with your point on there being way too many places to stash info.

As this is still an Alpha I would prefer to have just a few Topics and one exclusively for the Devs.

As far as dev interaction frequency goes, I was very satisfied when Eugen used to chime in every once in a while and Brian always used to have the odd smack-down with a post or two...which was always fun to follow.

Hate to say it...but I am still of the mind that a good, solid, and complete video for each build release would be enough for me. I am definitely NOT keen on how the devs post about something upcoming and they "best-case" it... THAT is really poor business. I also could do without the random post of something that is "in progress" until, at least, it is due in the next build. The feeding frenzy that follows a few pics of weapons or loot (that is no where NEAR ready to iterate) is getting old, fast.

[[DGN] Johnny 115]

19 minutes ago, philbur said:

I agree with your point on there being way too many places to stash info.

As this is still an Alpha I would prefer to have just a few Topics and one exclusively for the Devs.

As far as dev interaction frequency goes, I was very satisfied when Eugen used to chime in every once in a while and Brian always used to have the odd smack-down with a post or two...which was always fun to follow.

Hate to say it...but I am still of the mind that a good, solid, and complete video for each build release would be enough for me. I am definitely NOT keen on how the devs post about something upcoming and they "best-case" it... THAT is really poor business. I also could do without the random post of something that is "in progress" until, at least, it is due in the next build. The feeding frenzy that follows a few pics of weapons or loot (that is no where NEAR ready to iterate) is getting old, fast.

Not to mention the Community takes posts like that on "credit", as if it's a bill that will paid with last months and this months debt on the next release. Which is most definitely not how it works. Unless a Team has completed the content, it's at best, a guess to when something will be completed. Even something incredibly simple and 98% done can drag projects past their projection date by multiples if a tiny unforeseen issue clogs up the works.

And then comes the "it's vaporware", "this will never get done", and "Alpha is just an excuse" mafia to whine. =/

[Blazing87 14]

The slowest and badest devs in history cry!!!!!Take a look at squad,its an alpha and the development is much faster and they give detailed infos every month.

[igor-vk 909]

There were lots of good ideas like devs forum section, devs streams (which were huge failure IMO), video blogs (ones made by Rocket were great!) but it was all abandoned. Its like they dont care any more.

Yes, there are lots of idiots comenting with fouse language but devs should ignore them concetrate on part of comunity that still cares about this game. I see devs from some mods (yes makers of MODS) that have regular streams of map development or creating items.

I just cant belive that team of size of this cant make time to make short video blog with interviews with devs, tour around offices, small sneak peak of up coming stuff..... Im just very disapointed with all this...

Edit: good old days 

 

 

Edited March 4, 2016 by igor-vk

[voxframe 31]

Gotta agree with a lot of this.

I've been playing for must be almost 2 years now. The speed and quality of the development work is way behind that of a "normal" game.

DayZ/BI has the budget and staff to make this work, but it always seems as if DayZ is just a back-burner project meant to keep some people busy in the office.

I work in development and system administration, and this really isn't how a "project" of this scope should progress. The rate of things over the past 2 years pretty much drives the game to one of two clear outcomes, it will never make it to RC/Release before the game is vastly surpassed by others. (It's great that a new game was made for PlayStation2, but you wasted so much time in development that the platform itself is obsolete.) ... Or it simply will die before hitting RC/Release. I see this as the most likely fate of the game. At the current dev rate, we won't see BETA for another 2 years, RC in 3-4? The game will be far EOL by then.

I hate posting rants, I really would like to contribute more in a positive manner... But I can't because the devs don't interact well with the community in general, and the progress is so shrouded and oddly non-progressive that we can't follow/help properly.

I've said it dozens of times. I wish the devs would be a lot more specific as to what/why they are testing "X" and then we as a community would also know what to look for or what to test. I understand wanting your userbase to test "blindly" to see how things affect the overall dynamics of the game, but that's honestly something you tackle at BETA, not ALPHA. Alpha, you build the system and make sure it doesn't completely hose the game. Build your solid foundation. Then BETA you start tweaking the variables and bug fixing. You don't run mass dynamics/psych experiments in ALPHA.

(All of this would be solved with better dev communication and interaction. (And a load more transparency). That's another thing with ALPHA/BETA testing... As a development company, you need to be very clearly transparent with your customers (US!).

It needs improvement guys.

[OrLoK 16182]

Hello there

The dev team are damned if they do and are damned if they dont.

Even if subsection A of the populace love dev interaction there'll always be those who are not satisfied one way or the other.

Note the recent PAX event. Hours of Hicks interviews, folk complained about lack of a SR.

Next SR comes along folk complained that text wasnt as good as video.

Dont forget the devs are also spread thinly over several interactive medium, from Twitter to the Steam forums to Reddit etc.

Plaus anything of import we tend to ensure there's at least a crosspost or link to the relevent info.

Note that with the new forums we are still integrating new and old systems to achieve just this end.

patience is key.

Rgds

LoK

[sneakydude 480]

no lok, they are just damned period!!! ehhe

If you dont do any news, and keep at it people will not know what direction everything is heading. Alpha testing is not the way it once was.

Its more along the lines as EA grab your cash, and take a seat. All of them are going this direction and its frustrating. on the older player base that are very used to Alpha, beta testing.

what else can you say? buy it, and wait till the development is done. You might as well wait till its in beta before even handing over your cash if you have no proper input into the game you want built.

 

get my drift?

 

 

 

[Funkmaster Rick 373]

I think a fairly large minority of the forum-going population would be appeased by having more direct, small-scale interactions with the developers. After all, while us players are expected to playtest and provide feedback for Early Access, I think there's an implied expectation that the developers will respond directly to this feedback - after all, nobody wants to be shouting at the void.

[philbur 476]

10 hours ago, OrLoK said:

Hello there

The dev team are damned if they do and are damned if they dont.

Even if subsection A of the populace love dev interaction there'll always be those who are not satisfied one way or the other.

Note the recent PAX event. Hours of Hicks interviews, folk complained about lack of a SR.

Next SR comes along folk complained that text wasnt as good as video.

Dont forget the devs are also spread thinly over several interactive medium, from Twitter to the Steam forums to Reddit etc.

Plaus anything of import we tend to ensure there's at least a crosspost or link to the relevent info.

Note that with the new forums we are still integrating new and old systems to achieve just this end.

patience is key.

Rgds

LoK

Well. Thanks for taking a shot at this, Lok... but let's face it...you gotta admit the Dev team are not doing us any favors. (some would say they don't HAVE to do us any favors, of course).

The Dev team are only "damned" if they "don't". Any reasonable person who is likely to be a long-term player of DayZ SA will outlast the ADHD mood swings.

"Hours of Hicks interviews" can hardly count as the same as what we get from a short but Directed to the Forum Community video or SR. His interviews were for those who either have never played SA or who are no where NEAR as involved as the average multi-year Alpher.

The last SR was a feeble effort that gave us only false hope that 0.60 would arrive.It SHOULD have been a proper "Welcome to 2016 Survivors!" post.

The various platforms for Devs to communicate only serve to disperse the information instead of consolidating it.

Yes...you guys do try to make sense of the information and provide us with it whenever possible, but why should you have to...when they can do it and thereby give us a sense of being better involved and respected. You guys should not have to be their messengers.

I am guilty of thinking the new forum would resume where the old one left off, I suppose, and yes I will be patient.

This latest disappearing act (amid rumors of a possible major build release) is just an opportunity to focus our "impatience" and until the Dev team makes an effort (we're talking maybe a 5-minute blurb to shut us up!) then rave on, we will.

Sincerely, Me.

[Funkmaster Rick 373]

1 hour ago, philbur said:

The various platforms for Devs to communicate only serve to disperse the information instead of consolidating it.

For what it's worth, I personally agree with this statement; I kind of expect to find everything here, given that it's a forum hosted at the expense of the devs and which has the sole purpose of providing the DayZ community with a place to communicate. Not many have the time or inclination to hunt and peck for news. This in particular strikes me as something of a common oversight among game companies these days. Nobody needs Twitter exclusives but Twitter.

[narchy 63]

On 3/4/2016 at 2:52 PM, OrLoK said:

Note the recent PAX event. Hours of Hicks interviews, folk complained about lack of a SR.

 

It was great to have that, but it was not used very well through official channels - you could watch it through the AstroGaming Twitch channel, but the original video quality was not great. All the notes and consolidation of the videos was done by community members - where do you find this now? Languishing somewhere in a reddit thread, not to be found on the official website at all. If it's on available through official channels, it might as well not exist - because how is new or inexperienced community member supposed to find it?

[OrLoK 16182]

5 minutes ago, narchy said:

It was great to have that, but it was not used very well through official channels - you could watch it through the AstroGaming Twitch channel, but the original video quality was not great. All the notes and consolidation of the videos was done by community members - where do you find this now? Languishing somewhere in a reddit thread, not to be found on the official website at all. If it's on available through official channels, it might as well not exist - because how is new or inexperienced community member supposed to find it?

Hello there

I beleive at the time of PAX we had some well publicised issues here which we are still in the process of resolving. Whislt you may have a point that currently there is little PAX info here can you not see the reasoning for that perhaps?

Rgds

LoK

Edited March 6, 2016 by OrLoK

[OrLoK 16182]

18 minutes ago, narchy said:

It was great to have that, but it was not used very well through official channels - you could watch it through the AstroGaming Twitch channel, but the original video quality was not great. All the notes and consolidation of the videos was done by community members - where do you find this now? Languishing somewhere in a reddit thread, not to be found on the official website at all. If it's on available through official channels, it might as well not exist - because how is new or inexperienced community member supposed to find it?

Also, tyvm for reminding us that the PAX info *does* indeed need to be here. I shall put it on our lengthy "todo" list :)

L

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

Do you think people would ease off on crying for a Status Report, or a video, or bombarding Twitter if more of the team posted in their official sections on the forum?

Nope.  The devs posted a QA Q&A on twitter the other day and it was bombarded with none QA questions.   They answer the console question a thousand times, post a longer answer explaining the console prototype, and they still get asked about console release stuff.  In Status Report threads around the internet people ask questions that were clearly answered in that exact same Status Report.  Hicks says "hopefully" twice when expressing the desire for an end of February .60 release and people lose their shit when it doesn't happen and scream about broken promises. 

People do not read.  It really doesn't matter where the devs post information.  People will still whine and cry.

That said, I hope we'll see a bit more interaction here when modding arrives as we're going to have more technical questions then rather than the current "where iz updatz, y no m4" type stuff.

 

 

[OrLoK 16182]

Hello there

Its a really tricky issue and thats probably why I come accross as being so devensive on this *problem*.

Yes, communitcation isnt quite how many want or imagine but its hardly poor.

Could it be handled "better"? Possibly. Id say differently rather than "better".

However, Im also still of the opinion that if Hicks personally delivered daily info, to every user, calligraphied in gold on a parchment of purest Fraggleskin, folk would still complain  that something wasnt right and would hound the devs ove some percieved slight.

Ok, thats an exaggeration but the point is there.

Is it many folk out of the total fanbase that gripe and wail? No, not at all, but they are loud. "An empty can rattles the most etc"

IMHO the devs cannot please everyone and some enjoy baiting the devs/us/fans and whipping up controvesy where there is none.

See Cangate.

Rgds

LoK

[emuthreat 2837]

On 3/4/2016 at 6:52 AM, OrLoK said:

Hello there

The dev team are damned if they do and are damned if they dont.

Even if subsection A of the populace love dev interaction there'll always be those who are not satisfied one way or the other.

Note the recent PAX event. Hours of Hicks interviews, folk complained about lack of a SR.

Next SR comes along folk complained that text wasnt as good as video.

Dont forget the devs are also spread thinly over several interactive medium, from Twitter to the Steam forums to Reddit etc.

Plaus anything of import we tend to ensure there's at least a crosspost or link to the relevent info.

Note that with the new forums we are still integrating new and old systems to achieve just this end.

patience is key.

Rgds

LoK

Just my two cents here, but aren't these forums, the "official" DayZ Forums?  It would make much more sense to me, and probably many other people, if this place were to be the preeminent source of any development information; with a delegated task of then linking to the information here, through all other relevant media.

Since I love analogies so much:  The president of the United States delivers the State of the Union addresses from the White House, the Supreme Court delivers their rulings from the Supreme Court Building, the crotchety old man tells kids to get off his lawn from (you guessed it) his front porch; so why not the Devs, from their own house?

 

I hope that's what you were getting at when mentioning the integration of the new forums systems to "achieve just this end."