Primitive Technologies

[iClown 29]

I have a ton of things to say that all revolve around the suggestions Im going to present here and I hope that this is recieved well as I really hate the K.O.S. thing and hope to see a dayz where people wont kill you without a really good reason.

I thought about this a bit and couldnt put a finger on exactly why I kill people other than there being nothing else to do. I think we could balance this game and add a great deal of realism with the following suggestions:

 

1) Less food / drink.

 

Realistically, in a harsh post-apocalyptic environment, there wouldnt be cans of spaghetti and tactical bacon just laying around for you to indulge yourself endlessly. Realistically soda is NOT going to hydrate you nor will fake beer (Kvass). That would actually do the opposite. You couldn't just drink water straight out of a pond. Thats crazy. If you do that in real life you are going to get sick as a dog. In a post-apocalyptic and harsh environment where you are forced to scrape for food and water in whatever way you could you might get so sick from drinking lake water that you would die twice. I like how DayZ is more or less calorie based. You will get thirsty faster if you are running non-stop through the boons with a gun in your hand than you would if you were just sitting around a fireplace. Lets face it though, its way too easy. You have been able to spam drink out of ponds and wells on and off throughout the updates process more often than not and this is a solution. Get rid of the wells or make them contain only a certain amount of water before they are completely dry. Get rid of sodas and fake beers or make it realistic because those things would dehydrate you. With water in ponds (and perhaps even some of the wells) you should have to boil it before being able to safely drinking it. Thats how you would have to do it in real life. Water becomes a commodity.

Get rid of or make it too rare to rely on canned foods. You will never see somebody desperate at an apple tree picking for dear life in the current state of DayZ. Couple cans of peaches and a can of spaghetti and you can run clear across the map before you need to worry about it again. You dont see people growing plants in gardens or picking berries or any of that because all the towns might as well be grocery stores. The food that is laying around should be more realistic as well because regular food would be the first thing to go. I dont think people would, in some disaster like this, just be leaving a trail of spaghetti and bacon from where it began to where they died. I dont know how to make sense of that in any way not to mention that if your primary diet were canned spaghetti and peaches you would probably have an insufferable case of the squirts. I could see a partial bag of dog food laying around instead of a bag of rice though. A can of cat food every here n there. I dont think it should be such a dream come true to eat a can of bacon though. How long would you last on this stuff in real life? You wouldnt enjoy it even if you could and you surely wouldnt feel energized all day after eating a can or two of spaghetti.

 

2) Additional Primative Technologies.

       

        2a) Clay and Clay pottery.

              Typcially near water you can, even with a stone knife, easily dig up clay. You can clean the rocks and crap out of it and fashion pots and containers of all sizes and harden it by simply placing it in a fire. Thats real life stuff. I think that should definitely be part of DayZ (especially assuming the previous suggestions were implemented). You could then use clay pots to boil water to safely drink. You could store items in them. Possibilities.

       2b) Stone Axe/Hatchet

             You could, in much the same way you can make a stone knife, make a stone hatchet or axe. I wouldn't imagine you could easily make a large axe without due diligence but it is definitely possible to create a hatchet with rock and chop a tree down with it. You would need a small rock and a large rock to do that in real life and I could see that working out just fine in DayZ as well.

       2c) Sling.

             Again this one seems easy. Maybe in DayZ you could craft this with 2 ropes and small stones could be used as ammo. Slings are awesome. What more is there to say about slings? Pretty sure that needs to be a thing.

       2d) Shelters / Mud huts

              I dont expect this one to happen any time soon but this could be an alternative to tents. There are all sorts of primative shelters that could be implemented in DayZ. I would expect that if it were implemented it wouldn't be something you could just set up in 5 minutes though. Might require some research.

 

3) More realistic foods

    

    I already touched on this a bit but only as concerns canned goods and random foods laying around. I would say, also on that topic, food shouldnt respawn. If its gone its just gone forever and only comes back when server restarts while still fairly rare especially inland. I dont think bananas should be laying around either. Pretty sure bananas arent indigenous to Russia now or ever. Same with any of the other fruits though- they dont last very long without the preservatives that are probably keeping the canned peaches safe to eat. Red Berries and Blue Berries? Thats kinda vague isnt it? I mean, not all blue berries are poison guys! The following is a small list of foods you would probably find on trees and plants in Russia:

 

           3a) Almonds.

                 Raw almonds can cause salmonella (as will raw chicken btw) so you would have to prepare them. Peel the husk and cook them in a fire would probably suffice (unless you want to run the risks of getting sick as crap).

           3b) Bird Cherrys

                 Edible, indigenous to Russia, and the bark from the tree is actually used to make tea which is medicinally used to treat sickness (colds and such). The possibilities here!

           3c) European Barberry

                 These are edible and this shrub has medicinal qualities as well. Apparently it is antibacterial and an antioxidant. Again you could make a tea from the plant that would do you good.

           3d) Bearberry

                 Again indigenous to Russia and edible both raw and cooked.

           3e) European yew

                 This is poisonous and will kill you if you eat it.

           3f) Castor Beans

                 Apparently just one bean has enough ricin in it to kill an adult human in just a few minutes. Its not a native russian plant but quoting wikipedia (with citation) it is "widespread throughout tropical regions (and widely grown elsewhere as an ornamental plant)." Could be fun to have in yards around houses n such.

 

I think also that you should get hungry faster. Maybe thirsty a tiny bit faster as well. I think implementing the stuff ive suggested up to this point would force people to collaborate instead of just rushing to the base n shooting on sight.

 

4) Zombies

 

     I know there are plans to put more zombies in and there are new improved versions hot on their way but I think that filling those beautiful military bases to the top with zombies would be a great idea. I think they should get thicker and thicker as you get further inland. Its just way too wide open. Once you get to the next town over, inland, from the coast when you spawn you pretty much have a clean shot at where ever you might content going. You might get shot by somebody when you go to NWAF and try to get your hands on an SKS or something but if you dont you have another clear shot right back to the coast where you can shoot fresh spawns who are diving into the police station or whatever. I would really hate to be a new player in this game. I think the plan to throw in bears and wolves is great also. Thats really all I have to say about this.

 

5) Less guns on the coast (maybe less everywhere)

 

    I spawned in Kamyshovo the other day and was bored with all the running around so I just sat at the police station. I found a barrel and put it out front with a fire going on either side of it. I went in the police station and piece by piece took all the loot from it and put it in the barrel and saw that things were respawning in the police station as I was doing this. Nobody showed up and I got bored and went to Elektro and ended up doing the same thing when I found a barrel there but the point is that I was fully geared and ready for anything when I left Kamyshovo and with little to no effort. I had a skorpion with 2 mags, a trumpet folded up in my mountain backpack with 50 .22 rounds, a RAK with a mag in it that I was double carrying, and a magnum with 30 rounds. I was loaded up and didnt even search everything in Kamyshovo. Thats too easy. I was just hoping to run into somebody else - anyone - but nobody ever showed up and killed me without speaking a word as I assumed would happen. I ended up armed to the teeth and bright green healthy, hydrated, and energized instead. 

   My suggestion probably wont be loved by all but I say end the respawn thing. I dont think guns should respawn and tactical gear shouldnt respawn either. The fact that everyone can get a high cap vest and TTsKO gear with a nice gas mask or gorka helmet or whatever they might fancy just makes the game all the less authentic and less reason to care if you survive or not. Its just that easy to go and get it all again. People will pass up that AK74-U in the name of getting the gun they like the best. If an identical scenario played out in real life you probably wouldnt pass up a dog turd that was shaped like a gun if it meant saving yourself. I just dont see how its good balance for all the guns to spawn so frequently. I really think all the K.O.S. stuff is just imbalance in the game. I hope you consider some of the stuff I suggested here (especially the clay and pottery stuff). I'm gonna go ahead and just leave it at this for now.

 

Thx 4 reading this at the very least.

I'll keep an eye on the thread for replies.

Edited December 6, 2015 by iClown

[green_mtn_grandbob 594]

some of the things you talk of are planed on being in dayz.

[S3V3N 1402]

It's interesting, how comparably new players seemingly find similar things they want to improve upon (and I agree with most of it), yet also each adds something really original. About pottery - yes it could be interesting if you could burn your own clay and make, e.g. bricks from it. Check out this wonderful video and the beautiful mud hut that was build:

 

 

He also makes clay pots and containers in another video. 

 

I'd prefer this over a tent any day, because it is less visible, looks cool, is crafted and can become a meeting/tradepoint rather than a base camp where even your tents will get stolen. Maybe some small villages would be created this way. Dayz devs planned (glas) jars and drying racks to preserve food. I think it will be more sparce in the future and hopefully decay (even the cans). Their whole idea is more about grandmother technologies ;) than about stoneage ones. 

 

I'd love slingshots for e.g. chicken or rabbit hunt. They are slightly too fast to catch them when running, but I don't want to fire off a shot from a rifle and expose my position for a little bit of meat and feathers. It would also be cool, if we could break windows with slingshots (as a distraction) or shoot paintballs. 

 

I play the experimental version and you have to eat a lot more and drink even more often to stay healthy. It's still no big deal, but I find myself taking breaks more often - and enjoying it. 

 

It's true about stuff respawning. You can just loot a small remote village where nobody goes, until the items spawn you need. That just requires a little patience. The CLE is still in development or rather in tweaking stages and I can imagine, they will stop stuff from respawning so quickly, in the future. What annoys me a lot is that the loot engine switches loot around. So the loot you found in one place isn't there when you return. That's not the persistency that I was hoping for.

 

KOS - people are plain stupid. Unless you get a headshot off, nearly everything on a dead body is ruined anyway. With sparcity and more effort to stay alive, hopefully people will start to think about trading more. However, nothing hinders anyone to kill me during or right after a trade, so I think there needs to be some penalty for breaking trust like that. I don't like to sanction people for playing a certain way in DayZ, but we need better and more reasons to keep someone alive and do trade with him again. 

 

Who's that in your avatar? I like the shades and the hockey hair ^^ Must be a true 80's idol,but reminded me of Kenny Powers. Cool pic :)

Edited December 7, 2015 by S3V3N

[iClown 29]

The guy in that video is a beast! lol

 

Glad youre with me on this stuff. It makes good sense. I wouldnt want to create an imbalance with tents and huts though. It should require just as much effort if not more to make a hut as it would be to find a tent and haul it off to wherever you want to go. Another advantage tents would have is varying storage capacity and mobility. Im pretty sure this would work out just fine.

 

The avatar... I cut it out of this picture:

 

 

 

 

LoL

[S3V3N 1402]

The avatar... I cut it out of this picture:

 

Omg - that picture is awesome! Even better is the addition of a parrot and an AK with bayonet+scope all in one picture! WHAT were they thinking? I can't stop laughing. Really makes me wonder, if it was somehow an inspiration for Kenny Powers in Eastbound and Down ( https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c4/KennyPowers.jpg).

 

Yeah, I didn't mean for the huts to be an easy thing to build, but it could be an alternative to tents for those that prefer the hunting lifestyle. In Dayz we have a lot of things that can be achieved either by crafting or by looting. I expect the new storage crates to be a craftable alternative to barrels and tents. This could be similar with mud huts and such, except they'd need a bit of work and some tools to build (e.g. pickaxe for gathering big stones, axe for wood, shovel for clay, hemp for cordage...).

 

The guy in the video is a bit of a maniac, I think :) He lives in Australia - home to some of the deadliest animals in the world - yet he always runs around bare foot and bare chested and merrily builds one hut after the next. That's true deditation,heh! Imagine in Dayz when someone starts a mudhut and someone else comes by and helps him. Then they decide they need another hut for the second guy. And a couple of days later a third guy arrives... we could have player made villages that way. Without the protection of a base, but with enough common ground, so that people who have a hut there would leave each other alone, or even protect each other, do trades, hunt etc.

 

It could just mean another form of interaction among players that doesn't require playing in a big group, in order to build a base. The problem with tents is and will always be that they can be taken. It can happen that people just empty your tent, in order to take the best stuff and the tent itself. Those huts however, would stay and need only some maintenance and care. I don't think they should even have a permanent inventory, just means to bake pottery, dry food and cook; a lake for fishing and water nearby. I'm sure there could be a natural alternative to dyeing leather in barrels, too. Just another cool craftable to add to the hut: tanning basin; so they'd be kinda upgradable, but would always be open to anyone. Finding a hut like that with a place to dye could also mean that there is game in the area. And not least of all, it will provide shelter during rainfall. 

 

I think these huts should only be buildable in the vicinty of water, since it makes sense B) deer only seems to spawn near lakes. Clay will be easier to dig up there and water is required for building. You started a great idea with these huts! I think they have several disadvantages over a tent, but then again they have several advantages over barrels and bases. Even if just one or two people build the hut, all players who find it could benefit from it. It would be nice, if there was a place to leave a note, say thanks or request a trade.  

Edited December 7, 2015 by S3V3N

[Whyherro123 2283]

That daub-and-wattle hut, with the clay-tile roof? Took the guy multiple MONTHS to build. Not...... very feasible.

 

The below is much faster, easier, and more applicable to the environment Day Z takes place in (the survivor-guy in the above video is from New Zealand, which is a different environment-type)

 

 

As for more "primitive technologies", I have always loved using glass as a stand-in for flint. Lightweight, available anywhere people have lived, and just as workable as flint, and as effective. The below is a good "primitive" knife that you can make in a few minutes, just by knocking some sharp flakes off a piece of glass

 

 

Or, use said flakes as an arrowhead, which in turn would be faster and easier than trying to carve down bone.

 

[iClown 29]

I never meant to suggest putting a clay roof on a hut just to clarify. I like the A frame idea. I think you could build a decent sized hut without clay in a number of forms though. Im not even trying to be picky- Id just like to see the crafting / hunting side of things pushed forward more. I want clay for sure but my only suggestion is for crafting containers of various sizes to cook with or just store items in that maybe you might keep in your hut or whatever you might find them useful for.

That 'hobo knife' is definitely something to consider. Upgrading the cheap pointy stick arrows isnt a bad idea either. Maybe that could increase the damage or range or accuracy or all of that. We should keep piling this stuff on em here. These ideas are legit!

On huts though I dont see how they could be persistant which is kinda gonna be a downfall but I still say they should have some inventory space for firewood and other materials for crafting- I dont see what it would hurt. If the huts were persistant and easy enough to conjur up tho people would just build crap tons of them and make a mess of one thing or another. Only being able to build them in certain areas is probably the best bet either way honestly. Good thinking with or without a clay roof.

Edited December 7, 2015 by iClown

[Whyherro123 2283]

I never meant to suggest putting a clay roof on a hut just to clarify. I like the A frame idea. I think you could build a decent sized hut without clay in a number of forms though. Im not even trying to be picky- Id just like to see the crafting / hunting side of things pushed forward more. I want clay for sure but my only suggestion is for crafting containers of various sizes to cook with or just store items in that maybe you might keep in your hut or whatever you might find them useful for.

That 'hobo knife' is definitely something to consider. Upgrading the cheap pointy stick arrows isnt a bad idea either. Maybe that could increase the damage or range or accuracy or all of that. We should keep piling this stuff on em here. These ideas are legit!

On huts though I dont see how they could be persistant which is kinda gonna be a downfall but I still say they should have some inventory space for firewood and other materials for crafting- I dont see what it would hurt. If the huts were persistant and easy enough to conjur up tho people would just build crap tons of them and make a mess of one thing or another. Only being able to build them in certain areas is probably the best bet either way honestly. Good thinking with or without a clay roof.

 

Huts should totally be persistent. To counter the "people will build them everywhere" argument, simple: make them take a decent amount of time and effort to build, and make them "non-portable" (obviously). 

 

In H1Z1, the hills are strewn with "hobo-cities" of shitshacks because 1) they take like 3 boards and some nails to build, and 2) they get erected in literally 30 seconds or so. They don't involve much effort. 

 

Conversely, if something like the above lean-to took 20 pieces of firewood, 50 sticks, and several armfuls of pine needles/leaves to build (and it took a decent amount of time to do so), do you think everyone would waste the time and effort to make one? 

 

The main advantage of tents is that they are "portable", in the sense that you can find a tent/base, empty it out, pick it up, carry it somewhere else, and set up a camp there pretty easily. These lean-tos would be literally impossible to do that with. On the other hand, you could make them pretty easily, out of stuff you find in the woods, without having to brave potentially-hostile loot spawns

Edited December 7, 2015 by Whyherro123

[Steak and Potatoes 13480]

Im in massive favor for additional primitive influx in the game.  As said above a lot of mentioned and similar should ultimately make its way to the surface overtime.   Ideally, having self sustained character without needs to loot based on primitive skills would be fantastic.

[Deathlove 2280]

Lots of makeshift caveman like tools and weapons should be the primary function of how we fight for the most part. Anything modern age like guns and synthetic gear should be a luxury item at best. At the moment we have BARELY even scratched surface of the primitive tools and technology area which is a shame because this should be one of the big foundations for totting being a survival game.

 

Living off the land is one of the many reasons ppl are clinging on to this game still. Hopping it will become a dominant factor in the games mechanics. I do make allot of suggestions for high end military guns and gear however the survival element is in clear dire need of a major presence in the game right now.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Deathlove

[Noctoras 409]

Lots of makeshift caveman like tools and weapons should be the primary function of how we fight for the most part. Anything modern age like guns and synthetic gear should be a luxury item at best. At the moment we have BARELY even scratched surface of the primitive tools and technology area which is a shame because this should be one of the big foundations for totting being a survival game.

 

You deserve a lot of respect for still having hope for survival elements, when the game has been developing into a staight big-map-shooter lately. I doubt there will be more of these elements, but be prepared for some new guns ...

[S3V3N 1402]

That daub-and-wattle hut, with the clay-tile roof? Took the guy multiple MONTHS to build. Not...... very feasible.

 

The below is much faster, easier, and more applicable to the environment Day Z takes place in (the survivor-guy in the above video is from New Zealand, which is a different environment-type)

Yes, I'm sure we'll see those kind of shelters, too. In fact, I'd like a whole range of them in the game. But why shouldn't there be mud-huts? Like was said above, they can need significant effort to build, but once they are there they persist and can be used by all for crafting and shelter. Whereas the idea of your kind of shelter seems equally to be protected and to be hidden. That one would be much easier and faster to build. The alternative to it would be finding a tarpaulin and spreading it out between trees. Then there could be a next step of shelter, which is more visible, but also more protective, like this:

 

 

And finally, there could be the clay huts, which need the most tools, resources and time to build, but have great functionality (used for shelter, sleeping, cooking, crafting, dyeing, drying food, smoking meat/fish, tanning leather, etc.)

 

I'm really thinking about this a lot now. Modding is always gonna be interesting for this kind of stuff. Imagine a new map that has no or nearly no buildings and infrastructure and you start out healthy and with a backpack of (random) useful items. From there on you could go around killing others for their items and surviving short term (from day to day), or trying to cooperate and build up infrastructure and revive old industry, maybe start building a rural town.

The advantage would be there aren't thousands of items to mess up the game from the start (since there are no cities). Everything would be player build and then it could spawn something or be used for crafting something. That would be an awesome game. Strongly based on melee and bow/ranged type of weapons and natural recipes for remedies and such. It'd be kind of a modern version of the Tribe life.

 

Far from what we'll get in DayZ. I also doubt we will see much more of the crafting and survival elements. But we can hope and we can make ourselves. This would be an interesting mod, because on a map with nothing on it from the start, iterative development would appear a very natural process as more and more elements are added when your civilisation advances. Perhaps at some point, they'll be back to firearms, but they would be primitive, single shot and powder/bullet combinations. This hut thing got a whole lot of ideas popping up. I might change the direction of what I wanted to work on as a mod and think more into the direction of rebuilding civilisation from scratch. Occasionally, there would be resources in the form of cargo containers washed on the beach or boats that drift ashore. Those items would be great for trading and giving you an edge on developing some structuresor advanced tools. So a guy who finds this loot would be able to assume kind of a specialist role or trade his tools for someone else's to take on that role (e.g. carpenter tools -> trade for Toolbox => become mechanic). I'm gonna stop here. This fascinates me though ^^  

Edited December 7, 2015 by S3V3N

[iClown 29]

I hate to ask this question but... do the devs actually read this stuff? I feel, after reading the roadmap for 2015 that the devs may or may not be pulling the proverbial wool over our eyes. Would be nice to know we aren't just wasting our time here. I mean, if you do the math, more than a lot of money has been made from the game sales and the team of devs seems fairly small for such a budget. Do we have any reason to expect any of this stuff for real?

[Deathlove 2280]

I hate to ask this question but... do the devs actually read this stuff? I feel, after reading the roadmap for 2015 that the devs may or may not be pulling the proverbial wool over our eyes. Would be nice to know we aren't just wasting our time here. I mean, if you do the math, more than a lot of money has been made from the game sales and the team of devs seems fairly small for such a budget. Do we have any reason to expect any of this stuff for real?

Thats what im wondering as well. This game doesn't even have a SOLID survival element yet let alone the mechanics put in for most basic primative tools and equipment. We get far more patches with guns and modern clothing than we do improvised gear made from animal furs, bones, leathers, scrap metals, etc.

[S3V3N 1402]

I hate to ask this question but... do the devs actually read this stuff? I feel, after reading the roadmap for 2015 that the devs may or may not be pulling the proverbial wool over our eyes. Would be nice to know we aren't just wasting our time here. I mean, if you do the math, more than a lot of money has been made from the game sales and the team of devs seems fairly small for such a budget. Do we have any reason to expect any of this stuff for real?

 

Keep the faith! I bought the game when V3S were first introduced and it made leaps forwards since then. There was a pretty long phase where I thought the game wasn't moving forward (when they introduced the CLE first and we had lootexplosions and problems all over). Then hunting was introduced and the trucks were fixed. Tanning and dyeing were fixed and barrels added as addtional way to store stuff. All of these additions I appreciate! I don't think there was even fishing when I bought the game. 2015 was a good year for Dayz, don't let their overly ambitious goals from the beginning of the year blind you. Devs are doing their job and despite a fairly small team, they are pretty dedicated and seem to work together very well now. 

 

With Arma's modding history and the amount of people interested in it, I guess we'll see these kind of developments we talk about in some way or the other. It'll probably be years from now, though. But I'll still be playing Dayz in three years, even five. I've had so much fun with Arma and Dayz is a lot more interesting for me. I want to stick to it and be part of the modding community (I model 3D stuff). I hope I'll find the time and the team to make some cool stuff a reality. But overally I think what the devs will be giving us, is going to be a pretty sweet game and a unique experience. Probably not as much crafting and living of the land as we want, but Dayz is all about the mix for me. Sometimes I wanna go for PvP, most of the time, I just want to explore, build and scavenge or hunt. 

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

Crafting something like an axe that you could really use, or one that lasts, requires a lot of skill in real life.  I know this is a game but I'd hate for it to be too easy for someone to craft tools like that.  That said, I'd love to be able to craft an animal bladder canteen and use more parts of the animals (or survivors) for survival.  I'm sure this will come over time and if not, hell, mods are going to be a big deal here anyway.

 

 

I hate to ask this question but... do the devs actually read this stuff? I feel, after reading the roadmap for 2015 that the devs may or may not be pulling the proverbial wool over our eyes. Would be nice to know we aren't just wasting our time here. I mean, if you do the math, more than a lot of money has been made from the game sales and the team of devs seems fairly small for such a budget. Do we have any reason to expect any of this stuff for real?

 

If you read the updated bit in post two they outline what is going on.  Hicks' PAX presentation goes into even more detail.  A lot of the focus is on getting the engine complete and many of the systems are dependent on each other in one way or the other.  I also expect them to continue fleshing out the features they've already laid the groundwork for.  Once all the core bits of the engine are done I'm sure we'll start seeing smaller things like better crafting and the likes.  I don't think the devs are trying to deceive us at all.

[aseaheru 5]

    I spawned in Kamyshovo the other day and was bored with all the running around so I just sat at the police station. I found a barrel and put it out front with a fire going on either side of it. I went in the police station and piece by piece took all the loot from it and put it in the barrel and saw that things were respawning in the police station as I was doing this. Nobody showed up and I got bored and went to Elektro and ended up doing the same thing when I found a barrel there but the point is that I was fully geared and ready for anything when I left Kamyshovo and with little to no effort. I had a skorpion with 2 mags, a trumpet folded up in my mountain backpack with 50 .22 rounds, a RAK with a mag in it that I was double carrying, and a magnum with 30 rounds. I was loaded up and didnt even search everything in Kamyshovo. Thats too easy. I was just hoping to run into somebody else - anyone - but nobody ever showed up and killed me without speaking a word as I assumed would happen. I ended up armed to the teeth and bright green healthy, hydrated, and energized instead. 

   My suggestion probably wont be loved by all but I say end the respawn thing. I dont think guns should respawn and tactical gear shouldnt respawn either. The fact that everyone can get a high cap vest and TTsKO gear with a nice gas mask or gorka helmet or whatever they might fancy just makes the game all the less authentic and less reason to care if you survive or not. Its just that easy to go and get it all again. People will pass up that AK74-U in the name of getting the gun they like the best. If an identical scenario played out in real life you probably wouldnt pass up a dog turd that was shaped like a gun if it meant saving yourself. I just dont see how its good balance for all the guns to spawn so frequently.

 

This only happens (in my experience) when an area hasent been looted for a while, or when items arent removed from a particuar spawn point for a while. It eventually tapers off, atleast in my experience of "clean out all the crap no one ever grabs so that it gets reset". Its really apparent in places like houses that next to no one ever visits.

 

 As for the rest, sounds good to me.

[iClown 29]

Crafting something like an axe that you could really use, or one that lasts, requires a lot of skill in real life.  I know this is a game but I'd hate for it to be too easy for someone to craft tools like that.  That said, I'd love to be able to craft an animal bladder canteen and use more parts of the animals (or survivors) for survival.  I'm sure this will come over time and if not, hell, mods are going to be a big deal here anyway.

 

If you read the updated bit in post two they outline what is going on.  Hicks' PAX presentation goes into even more detail.  A lot of the focus is on getting the engine complete and many of the systems are dependent on each other in one way or the other.  I also expect them to continue fleshing out the features they've already laid the groundwork for.  Once all the core bits of the engine are done I'm sure we'll start seeing smaller things like better crafting and the likes.  I don't think the devs are trying to deceive us at all.

 

First, crafting something like an axe doesnt require anything but a couple rocks and some elbow grease - we wouldnt probably be alive today if humans werent able to figure that sort of thing out. Also its not difficult to find an axe as it is. Every firestation nearly and a great deal of sheds you can find an axe and they dont last all that long if you use them for what they are intended to be used for (which is back assward imho) like chopping down trees vs chopping some random bambi in the face.

I havent read the updated bit or seen the PAX presentation but I will make sure to do that in the relatively near future. Thanks for pointing that stuff out. I do want to believe.

 

This only happens (in my experience) when an area hasent been looted for a while, or when items arent removed from a particuar spawn point for a while. It eventually tapers off, atleast in my experience of "clean out all the crap no one ever grabs so that it gets reset". Its really apparent in places like houses that next to no one ever visits.

 

 As for the rest, sounds good to me.

 

I challenge you to broaden your experiences, dear friend. I have come to learn that people refer to it as "loot cycling" and all you have to do is pick up a bunch of stuff in a building (like the police station for example) and cart it off a certain distance to a different location OR, as I had ended up doing in Kamyshovo, putting it in a barrel or bag or you can even just stick things into clothing items and you dont even have to leave the building. Crap will literally spawn in front of you. I am in disagreement completely with the current item spawning situation. I think we'd be better off if a set number of each of the items in the game were available and that was it until server restart and everything were persistant. Of course we would need alternative methods of survival to relying on the crap in the cities for that to even consider that and its a pretty vulnerable idea but thats why Im not in charge of any of this. It definitely needs some work though. That and being able to just hop from server to server with crap is about bogus af. The only thing that will ever result from that is griefing.

[Whyherro123 2283]

"Primitive" technologies don't even have to be that geared towards weapons or shelters, even.

 

You could gather acorns, cattail, or water lily-roots for food

 

You could make baskets out of birch bark, for carrying things or for boiling water

 

You could make cordage from cedar bark or twisted grass ( I've used a particularly-heavy bit of cedar-bark cordage for a bowstring before)

 

You could use "small rocks", heated in a fire, to boil water for consumption or cooking (usually paired with the above bark-bowl)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyC8yqYj3_M

[iClown 29]

heres an idea:

 

make a fishing hook out of soda can tabs. Since Ive heard rumor of leaving behind trash. This would be a good use for it.

 

also the gorge hook:

if not good for dayz the video is still hillarious

 

 

making cordage is a fkn fantastic idea also. more ways to craft rope and more container options devs! plz!

(tried all this diff crap to embed a video and all I have to do is link it? smh)

Edited December 8, 2015 by iClown

[aseaheru 5]

I challenge you to broaden your experiences, dear friend. I have come to learn that people refer to it as "loot cycling" and all you have to do is pick up a bunch of stuff in a building (like the police station for example) and cart it off a certain distance to a different location OR, as I had ended up doing in Kamyshovo, putting it in a barrel or bag or you can even just stick things into clothing items and you dont even have to leave the building. Crap will literally spawn in front of you. I am in disagreement completely with the current item spawning situation. I think we'd be better off if a set number of each of the items in the game were available and that was it until server restart and everything were persistant. Of course we would need alternative methods of survival to relying on the crap in the cities for that to even consider that and its a pretty vulnerable idea but thats why Im not in charge of any of this. It definitely needs some work though. That and being able to just hop from server to server with crap is about bogus af. The only thing that will ever result from that is griefing.

 

 I'm not debating that the stuff can spawn infront of you, I am pointing out that it only appears to happen when the locale has not been looted in some time and that it tapers off after some time.

 

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

First, crafting something like an axe doesnt require anything but a couple rocks and some elbow grease - we wouldnt probably be alive today if humans werent able to figure that sort of thing out. Also its not difficult to find an axe as it is. Every firestation nearly and a great deal of sheds you can find an axe and they dont last all that long if you use them for what they are intended to be used for (which is back assward imho) like chopping down trees vs chopping some random bambi in the face.

I havent read the updated bit or seen the PAX presentation but I will make sure to do that in the relatively near future. Thanks for pointing that stuff out. I do want to believe.

 

 

I'm aware early man was able to do it, but a modern man has no clue how and to do it effectively like our ancestors is even harder.  It's not about finding a couple "rocks" either.  Finding the right materials is harder than just a stick int he woods and a rock from the ground.  Anyway, there's enough games will silly crafting like that.  DayZ should avoid it.

[Espa 711]

I reallyyyyyy like the idea of all of this. I don't know in what capacity the Devs will implement this kind of stuff, but I sure hope it's worthwhile and DIFFICULT.

 

I think you'd be happy with the Other Dangerous Foes (Animals/Humanoids) of my Adjacent Suggestion List, as well as much of the other Sections. I've touched on a majority of what you'd desire in game - With the exception of base/tool building. Tons of game to hunt and tons of threat while doing so.

 

https://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/230454-brother-espas-list-of-desireable-changes/

Edited December 9, 2015 by Espa

[Whyherro123 2283]

You..... aren't going to be making stone axes that are capable of cutting down trees. Hell, you won't be capable of making stone/glass knives that look like this:

 

 

Believe or not, but that knife, and other stone-knappings like it, are the result of a learned skill that takes many weeks to learn properly.

 

This is more something I would see the "average" survivor making. (minus the pressure flaking)

 

 

And all of those little flakes getting knocked off would be perfectly servicable "knives" in their own right, ( watch the video on "Hoko knives" I posted), or for use as arrowheads.

 

For example, this is how long it takes a master flintknapper to make a roughed-out (aka not all that usable) flint axehead.

 

Edited December 9, 2015 by Whyherro123

[iClown 29]

You..... aren't going to be making stone axes that are capable of cutting down trees. Hell, you won't be capable of making stone/glass knives that look like this:

 

and for the most part the players of this game.... arent going to be able change the tire out on a v3s or bus or fix a helicopter or raid a military base and know wtf they are doing with an sks. notice I said for the most part cause honestly somebody playing this may very well be able to or has done all of that. Same goes for crafting any and all of this stuff. Probably the same people. Seems that bushcraft is most popular with hunters and ppl that like to fish and what not... Im not sure its as rare as you think it is...

 

the first 15 seconds of this video: