"Understanding Realism in Computer Games through Phenomenology" (DayZ discussion).

[-Gews- 7443]

In the end, the question is this: Does something "fit" the overall game experience and add to it, or does it feel out of place and unneccessary? And imo, inspect information like this simply feels completely out of place:

 

Not only is it out of place, it's irrelevant and messy. Some of those descriptions are copy-pastes from Wikipedia. I'd rather have something simple, obvious and uncluttered. For example:

"The SKS is a Soviet semi-automatic carbine chambered for the 7.62x39mm round, designed in 1943 by Sergei Gavrilovich Simonov. Its completely designation, SKS-45, is an initialism for Samozaradnyj Karabin sistemy Simonova, 1945 or SKS 45. In the early 1950s, the Soviet took the SKS carbine out of front-line service and replaced it with the AK-47; however, the SKS remained in second-line service for decades. It is still used as a ceremonial arm today."

... could be replaced with something like ....

"Semi-automatic military surplus rifle."

 

[KenoSkir88 181]

Is it against realism? Realism, in the context of video games, is the ability of a player to immerse himself into a game. It does not mean that because something can be done in real life it should be able to be done in a game. It means that a player's should be able to lose himself in the fantasy of the game.

 

I strongly disagree mate :) Sweeping statements cannot cover this topic. Realism in terms of DayZ in my opinion means that aside from the infected presence being a given and the catalyst for everything else, the aim is to make it as close to real world as is possible within given constraints. If someone is able to tell that i have killed based on anything other than word or mouth or actually witnessing the event or evidence thereof the game would lose much respect from a lot of the player base. How the game communicates internal sensations and notifications is up for debate because it cannot be done in a realistic sensational way with current technology. Adding external signs that would never exist in real life that help another player assess your motives is a massive step in the wrong direction i believe.

[Om1 4]

Mechanical Inconsistency

Multiple people have mentioned the medical systems to be immersion breaking, now I think this is eigther a lack of grasp of what realism/authentisism is. Yes in real life, a peice of cloth over a gunshot wound would not instantly stop the bleeding, but atleast it's consistent and is part of how the game works for everyone else too. Besides, even though it's unrealistic, it's not like you're as good as new after applying a rag. There is still a complex health/regen system in place that makes you set back for a good amount of time. As much as it  makes more realistic sense to have to go through the A to Z of healing from a bullet wound in real life, DayZ is still just a game and we need to pherhaps find a middleground between that and H1Z1s instant regen with med-kits and bandages. No matter what though medical system is fine as long as it's consistent.

 

Desync/lag (server-client communication/fps)

Kinda falls under the inconsistency branch, but more in the sence of technical inconsistensy instead of mechanicly. I feel like this is self explanitory, the frustation of losing control of your character like that breaks immersion more than anything else in the game at the moment.

 

Player control

The cluncy player control you have in the game at the moment is absolutly one of the most important things to fix. Too feel immersed you have to feel like this character is you/yours, and it needs to feel responsive and smooth. A while ago I remember trying to go from crouched, leaning left, scoped, to- go prone - roll left - scope. Yeah, I will not get into how frustrated getting shot and killed locked into that animation was, but damn....

 

1st. vs 3rd.

When it comes to 1st. vs 3rd. camera perspective I think neigther is perfect and they offer different experiences of the game. I do however feel like the perspective of 1st. person gives a more true vibe of what I belive the DayZ experience should feel like, making you play the game as intended. 3rd. person perspective gives you a more disconnected point of view and is likely to make people feel less connected to the character and not care as much what happens.

 

MEELE COMBAT!

Need I say more? I remember the early DayZ standalone days when you could actually sneak up on someone and if precise and lucky you could knock someone out with two solid punches to the face. Some people called this unrealistic and unbalanced or whatever, what is unrealistic is sneaking up on a person and not being able to in any way reliably incapasitate that person. As it is at the moment is meele system is a joke and anytime I do end up in a meele fight it's the dumbest thing and is super unimmersive.

Edited October 18, 2015 by Om1

[hleVqq 139]

I'm actually loving the idea of removing item descriptions. Leave the name, condition and weight only. New players should try to fit in the ammo to a gun themselves until they learn what fits where. Or use Google, like it's done with the map. Though on the other hand script may be right that most players would like to know what the item is without having to go through the effort of Googling and remembering.

Edited October 18, 2015 by Powerhouse

[scriptfactory 620]

Meta-gaming is a potential realism killer for many people. I learned everything I know about DayZ through Google and not in-game resources. The map is an item I will not pick up. I don't need it taking a precious item slot from my Improvised Backpack. Leaving a game in order to figure out what to do and where to go seems like a definite immersion breaker.

 

Rust solved this problem by simply making each player auto-create their own map through exploration. I feel a similar approach in DayZ would make the map much more useful but would remove the whole disorienting aspect for new players which could be good and bad. I remember reading disorientation was something Rocket wanted to provide to new players. He wanted people to feel lost. Unfortunately, Chernarus is just too small for this effect to last so I feel like that was a failed endeavor.

 

It would be interesting to see how many players are actually using the in-game map. For comparison, I use the map in Arma constantly but that is only because I can set waypoints with it. xD

[q.S Sachiel 470]

Mechanical Inconsistency

Multiple people have mentioned the medical systems to be immersion breaking, now I think this is eigther a lack of grasp of what realism/authentisism is. Yes in real life, a peice of cloth over a gunshot wound would not instantly stop the bleeding, but atleast it's consistent and is part of how the game works for everyone else too. Besides, even though it's unrealistic, it's not like you're as good as new after applying a rag. There is still a complex health/regen system in place that makes you set back for a good amount of time. As much as it  makes more realistic sense to have to go through the A to Z of healing from a bullet wound in real life, DayZ is still just a game and we need to pherhaps find a middleground between that and H1Z1s instant regen with med-kits and bandages. No matter what though medical system is fine as long as it's consistent.

MEELE COMBAT!

Need I say more? I remember the early DayZ standalone days when you could actually sneak up on someone and if precise and lucky you could knock someone out with two solid punches to the face. Some people called this unrealistic and unbalanced or whatever, what is unrealistic is sneaking up on a person and not being able to in any way reliably incapasitate that person. As it is at the moment is meele system is a joke and anytime I do end up in a meele fight it's the dumbest thing and is super unimmersive.

Indeed, a balance must always be held in entertainment between identification with audience and ability to entertain the audience.  Sure, you know it's a bit whack to fix broken bones with the medical magic morphine wand, or 100% chnace to stop bleeding on first rag irrespective of wound (this is something that could be changed)... but when you start removing game mechanics or making something too laborious it has a similar if not stronger negative effect.  Someone quipped a while ago on this topic of having a breathe in / out button; blink button; left foot-right foot control etc to quote an extreme.

 

Desync/lag (server-client communication/fps

This is both a client and server side issue, with obvious back-end software responsibility too.  Ultimately come release this is something that needs to be improved and at a solid level irrespective of 'immersion' (but i know i don't need to tell OP 'alpha' ;))

 

Player control

As above, however better animations and perhaps certain mechanics like forraging for apples/sticks/stones could be made different to reduce the tedium.  I know they're just a sprite but god damn i know there are apples there i can see them!  Low hanging fruit my ass...

 

1st. vs 3rd.

 

I'm quite divided on this actually.  Come Gold release i'd love to see more 1pp servers, as atm in AUS (from the little i've played recently) i can't remember seeing a 1pp server above 7players.  Same goes for ARMA3, and that's a straight up PVP game.  I can see people clipping through walls, actively scanning from behind cover at elevation and it is a major buzzkill and even more so that i can't find 1pp only.  DayZ however I find myself playing in more of a casual mindset funnily enough for a survival game (opposed to milsim), but I am just as happy with 3pp, although longing for 1pp servers, though this comfort may be due to the lack of combat in DayZ as compared to the continual engagements of SC-ARMA3.  I'm sure most know of the opinion that i share, and that's go to 1pp if you want 1pp go to 3pp if you want 3pp, so i don't see this being an issue.

 

MEELE COMBAT!

Need I say more? I remember the early DayZ standalone days when you could actually sneak up on someone and if precise and lucky you could knock someone out with two solid punches to the face. Some people called this unrealistic and unbalanced or whatever, what is unrealistic is sneaking up on a person and not being able to in any way reliably incapasitate that person. As it is at the moment is meele system is a joke and anytime I do end up in a meele fight it's the dumbest thing and is super unimmersive.

Om1:

Yep!  I do have fond days in the .3 or .4's where i'd snuck up on a group of 2 battling off zombies in the appartment buildings north of Cherno towards Balota.  I'd stalked them, hungry and fresh, and one of the two was Mike Tyson'd to the ground.  The second went about looting him, and i crept up behind her.  Two punches to the back of the head, and i was reaching into her

pockets

, grasping at her

shotgun

had to run away while she got up to reload it then sank two steamy loads into her face.

 

There was a period there where you couldn't dodge/avoid zombie blows, and they still take quite a while to kill with weapons that I'd expect to be quite lethal.

 

I'd also like to see throwing as a weapon/stealth mechanic, hopefully to come with a beef-up in zombie numbers, because at the moment it's quite redundant (yet powerful potential imo).

 

Also, map in Arma is great because it provides granularity to your attack/defense plan.  This would be just as useful in DayZ (for more urban engagements anyway) except messing around and using it is sure to get you shot given the time associated with death and respawn, compared to Arma.

Edited October 18, 2015 by q.S Sachiel

[pilgrim* 3513]

Meta-gaming is a potential realism killer for many people.

..//.

It would be interesting to see how many players are actually using the in-game map.

 

map exploration ? => DayZ is weighted to encourage deathmatch.

scriptfactory: Auto-exploration is a poor game mechanism. with auto you can run around at random and the map fills in as you go, this is low-level play IMO. If DayZ is anti-game then this mechanism is anti-DayZ.

Can't do much about players knowing the map from playing it for a long time, but you can help less experienced players into more immersion.  - DayZ was exciting when it was unknown territory - I had an ideal Electro was south of Cherno, getting lost was normal. Finding an in-game map and compass was a major survival aid. A single full map of Chernarus in-game as loot is necessary for new and semi-experienced players (60%-80% of players?) to encourage movement.

Requirements for movement to maintain the DayZ "anti-game" tradition are vital (ie - the desire/necessity to move across the map).

Plus, the standard setup of a modern gaming rig has changed expectations enormously in the years sincethe DayZ concept began with the Mod.   

result - DayZ is weighted to encourage team deathmatch:

Here's why ..

 

After years in the game I now spawn somewhere and after 1 minute I recognise the location; "Ok I go from here to Y, drink at the lake, then head to Z, find something to wear plus an axe and whatever else turns up, eat a load of apples at Z if I need to stoke. Then skirt West through the forest South of Berezino to avoid the deathmatch players, if I find a firearm on the way I change plan." etc etc

But I have played a long time:

Firstly - A single full map of Chernarus in-game enables movement - it encourages "getting lost" and pathfinding in fact. An in-game map, as a loot object, would be extremely useful fo less experienced players (all new players, and most 'normal' players). Only once ever on these forums I heard a player boast he had put together a full map from the pieces.

Secondly - make "suicide to rejoin your team", more difficult. Example: If you suicide, you respawn at random point X, then every time you suicide again in that 24 hours, you respawn at same point X. You can still jump off a tower to rejoin your group or change location, but it takes longer. Good.

Why has the game changed if the game design has not changed?

By default players use TS3 and keep an open DayZ +loot map on their tablet or second screen, with the other aids and multi-player team devices. Obviously this radically alters the game.

The one HUGE change between Mod and SA is the very strong move to othodox "standard" team play. This is because of TS and off-game aids and complete removal of in-game comms:

Designer argument = "in-game comms are gamebreaking" Fact is = "no one needs them".

So this doesn't mean a change in design philosophy has altered the game, it means gamers use different standard-setup gamer tech.

And "team-game" - as everybody knows from a hundred team games already available since 20 years (what we grew up on) - means finding another team to fight.

So - no one has mentioned yet ,that SA is weighted for deathmatch..

  .. because cheap available gamer-tech has evolved and outflanked the DayZ game concept.

 

*

 

If you look at Elite you see a game that "expects" it's players to use all the aids they gan get hold of, AND build their own advanced kit... that's an integral part of the Elite concept. In the player-base the idea has already taken popular hold, that if you're playing on "one screen and a keyboard", you're not even a 'serious' player.

On the other hand DayZ has not managed to even BEGIN to have an attitude to "what to do about all this new player-technology stuff ??"

 

xx

Edited October 18, 2015 by pilgrim

[nl 986]

Yes that's interesting - maybe survivors should not be told so much about guns (for instance) - why would they know what type of ammo this gun takes without trying and learning from experience ?

Doesn't it usually say on a gun irl what kind of ammo it needs?

[pilgrim* 3513]

Doesn't it usually say on a gun irl what kind of ammo it needs?

 

hhmm.. I dunno.. where does it tell you on an AK74  what kind of ammo to use?  - some do some dont, depends where it was made - might stamped in Chinese? (but not if you found it in Chernarus) or where's that info on a Longhorn, or on an ex Soviet Union IZH 12-bore, or on a  Mosin, or even an M4?

- is there is a standard "what kind of ammo you need" notice? {no} .. So perhaps what's on the weapon is what you should see in the description?

eg:

 

OK - These are the importers marks on a USA Mosin, required by USA law (..for the USA)

So you definitly won't find them on a Chernarus Mosin in DayZ

 

What would you find? ... if you knew where to look? (...and if you knew what it meant when you saw it?)

xx

 

edit: if in doubt about a Mosin - ask the girls:

[example: check through ALL the AK photos in http://www.avtomats-in-action.com/proindex.html and see if you can find any reference to caliber or other info writtten, stampled whatever,  on any of these 50 detailed gun photos, EXCEPT a USA importers required statement, which is added to civilian-sale weapon, by law, when it is imported into USA]

Edited October 18, 2015 by pilgrim

[Kirov (DayZ) 585]

1) Many people point out that medical system is broken, but Morphine especially kills it for me. I call it "Potion of Limb Restoration" because that's precisely what it is. We've got a magical item in Chernarus.

 

2) I understand arguments about 1pp, but I think the 3pp camera is super anti-immersive and that's why I almost always play on 1pp servers. So you tell me we've got invisible helmets with very long tactical mirrors protruding from each side...? No.

 

3) Evading bullets via running and zig-zagging - one of the reasons I was disheartened about PvP, people avoid being shot in a manner unthinkable in RL. Why for crying out loud is "erratically dance to your safety" an option?

 

4) This is a small thing, but the night sky is really off. The stars are correctly placed but their relative brightness is completely wrong. It takes me 3 seconds tops IRL to find Ursa Major but a minute or so in Dayz. Also, there is no Milky Way. Also, there are no planets. Also, without light polution, the number of stars should be much more staggering. Also, the stars shouldn't become circles when zoomed in.

 

Re: map. I use the in-game map a lot in order not to break immersion. The only flaw of the map (immersion wise) is that it's too precise. Real maps are often outdated after a few years, old roads disappear, forests get cut, etc.

 

All in all, I find Dayz a very immersive game, although many features need overhaul. I can only hope this will get better over time. And yeah, the crosshair should go, too. Absolutely no HUD on the main screen.

[nl 986]

hhmm.. I dunno.. where does it tell you on an AK74  what kind of ammo to use?
or on a Longhorn, or on an ex Soviet Union IZH 12-bore, or on a  Mosin, or even  an M4?
- is there a standard "what kind of ammo you need" notice? So perhaps that's what you should see in the description?
eg:

 
OK - These are the importers marks on a USA Mosin, required by USA law
So you definitly won't find them on a Chernarus Mosin in DayZ
 
what would you find? ... if you knew where to look? (and if you knew what it meant when you saw it)
xx
 
edit: if in doubt - ask the girls:

 

So what it says in your pic with "caliber", this is all the info you need or not? Or are there still variations in the cartridge you should use?

 

Like in these pictures as well:

 

 

Edited October 18, 2015 by SAK

[pilgrim* 3513]

So what it says in your pic with "caliber", this is all the info you need or not? Or are there still variations in the cartridge you should use?

..//..

 

this is a whole can of worms - yo need to ask the weapons experts on the forum about this (you'll get 20 pages of answers), check back through the forums - but here and now it would derail the thread IMO, so I've said enough on the topic of "examine weapons" here.

Edited October 18, 2015 by pilgrim

[nl 986]

this is a whole can of words - yo need to ask the weapons experts on the forum about this (you'll get 20 pages of answers), check back through the forums - but here and now it would derail the thread IMO, so I've said enough on the topic of "examine weapons" here.

Fair enough, we'll leave it at that.

Just to be clear: I think it's not so unrealistic you would know which caliber/cartridge variation to use when you pick up a weapon because of the markings on gun and cartridge, also, a 9mm would not be able to be chambered with 45 ACP or a 380 with 5.56 and so on. Though it would be kind of interesting that if you chamber your weapon with a fitting but wrong cartridge the gun would blow up in your face :)

[Hairy_eyeball 82]

i think this was a very well thought out discussion, and you used good sources as well. to me, the realism problem is the uncontrolled actions that lead to falling off buildings. 

(insert the normal alpha testing reminder)

be patient and the devs may bless you with your desires because of your good argument. 

[Bororm 1156]

I think an interesting question the perspective thing raises is:  When you imagine yourself doing something, do you always solely imagine yourself doing that from your own perspective or do you often imagine yourself placed in the scenario?

 

Personally, I do a bit of both and I'd say more often than not the latter.  I don't imagine everything I want to do/have done from my own perspective but often imagine myself into a scenario.  As this relates back to camera perspective, I personally have no problem feeling immersed with a non first person camera.  Some of the games I've felt most immersed in were even isometric (UO for an example, some RPGs etc).  I wonder if the way people often perceive themselves IRL in their own heads has any influence on their level of immersion in games.

[MrAerospace 87]

DayZ needs realism, but if the pursuit of ultra-realism sacrifices playability, then it will inevitably make for an overall lackluster experience.

It's all about a smooth, non-intrusive user interface. I'm happy dying over and over and over again to zombies, other players or starvation, but if I die because the game doesn't interpret my inputs, won't let me pick up a can of beans, or I starve to death without ever knowing I'm hungry, then it'll quickly become tedious. The anti-game will be anti-fun.

 

Character stats are seriously important. The idea of no HUD is amiable, but we can't lose those notifiers, even if they state the obvious. It's one thing to replace the text indicators with animations or post-processing, but that's all they should be aiming to achieve. Finding a place for the notifiers that is separate from the inventory is something important to do, and a toggleable HUD or character screen is probably the right way to achieve it.

 

The inventory will always be an abstract concept. It is the part of the game that requires the greatest suspension of disbelief, even to a level above zombies, so it is extremely important to have a smooth transition between the game and the inventory. Stiello's design is still the best attempt at doing this so far, but it needs some work. Ideally for me, if the tech could support it I would love to find a can of beans, press tab, be able to still see the beans in the same location on my screen, and then click and drag the item directly from it's location into my inventory. It would mean the death of the vicinity bar but it would need a lot of concept work, planning and a ton of programming to get there. (Not to mention how it would handle multiple containers.)

[q.S Sachiel 470]

STALKER is by far one of the better survival/action open world games out there with one of the most immersive experiences of any FPS in my opinion.

It had:

 

HUD + Crosshair

inventory

text dialogue

RADAR (see hud)

quest updates/tooltips/status indicators

vicinity prompts.

 

DayZ has many of these mechanics/elements, of which strong comparisons can be drawn between.  Game mechanic design/presentation has almost nothing to do with immersion in my opinion.  As long as it's functional and in line with the theme/genre then I generally take it on face value, although i will concede that certain styles would feel dated or archaic, though still dependant on method of implementation.  It is the interaction of these elements as well as delivery of gameplay that will keep me glued to the screen.  DayZ however does not have a story driven/quest driven gameplay and due to it's open-ended nature, risks falling prey to the trap of providing too much with too little direction.  I can throw a heap of A-grade food components on a dish but unless their proportions are in order and the dish has a certain purpose/direction or statement, then it's just a bunch of ingredients. 

 

This in my opinion (along with the glaring gameplay issues inherrent of Alpha gamplay) will be DayZ's major obstacle.  It doesn't need to be every day, but being able to deliver a consistantly engaging experience will prove difficult, and I'm sure this is made even more troublesome due to the broad and often divided population that is the DayZ playerbase. 

 

I've said it to the point of bleeding finger tips, but DayZ needs to make the player invested in their gameplay.  People are always suggesting to remove 'this' element because it promotes one style of gameplay too strongly, without truly detracting from other styles.  (Often 'this' is PvP and it's arguable that PvP/KoS mentality creates a good portion of the atmosphere that is DayZ) but very rarely is there any insightful or creative suggestion at developing other styles in a way other than just adding more things.  You could argue we need farming, but including a full suite of equipment and substrate is going to present diminishing returns (as to some degree with adding weapon upon weapon). But that's just it: having all these things and still ending up with an environment where the majority of them are used and enjoyed is difficult.  Stalker is just an open world FPS, but it had it.  WoW is a massive franchise, possibly because of it's predecessors and the brand-loyalty, but it had something.  Counterstrike is just rinse-repeat shootemup and Souls series is just a measure of how much salt you can precipitate on your keyboard, but people love these games.

 

Yes, it ultimately does become boring that almost every person you see wants to either bait you or kill you on sight, but unless there is at least a few real reasons for a player to interact in another way, there is no incentive.  At the risk of overdosing on analogies, I can cast my line into the water and there are millions of fish.  Rarely will I catch one unless I consider a bare minimum of criteria such as bait/chum, tide and location.  The same goes for players.  It's not about taking away incentive, it's about broadening it.  Same goes for the tired 'it is what your imagination wills it' argument.  This may sound counter-intuitive to my point about too much with no direction, but multiple avenues of approach to a a single situation sounds better to me than a single solution to multiple situations.

 

Despite all this, I'm still excited to see where the game goes, and will probably just end up coming in from time to time purely for the sake of increasing the lead content in your blood.

Maybe i'm just falling back on what I know, what I'm comfortable with, maybe I lack imagination; but robbing Peter to pay Paul in a game with already too much going nowhere is not a valid solution in my opinion.

Edited October 19, 2015 by q.S Sachiel

[scriptfactory 620]

I'm honestly shocked by the quality of the responses in this thread. I have altered my viewpoint on many current in-game features based purely on what many people have written (e.g. item descriptions). When this thread dies down I would suggest we make a follow-up thread in suggestions for the hottest topics. Everyone could give their input on how they would like to see this awesome game improved.

 

Seriously, great thread.  :D

[pilgrim* 3513]

^Bororm right on 'perspective and immersion'

 

I think some folk in this thread are mixing up "immersion" and "enjoyable" a lot, and then mixing those in with "realistic"
It's not their fault - the games industry does it too, deliberately.  But, to be logical, if a game was "realistic" then some parts of it would not be enjoyable

no one enjoys breaking a leg, right?

To make it clear - I know people who have played Minecraft for 20 hours straight (several times a week, lol) - they are totally IMMERSED, you can take the wallet out of their pocket they just kinda grunt and go on playing, ..oh yes.. that's Immersion

but please please don't tell me minecraft has anything to do with Realism.

 

My guess is everyone is assuming DayZ is supposed to be "realistic" and then complaining when something "unrealistic" turns up - like "clumsy controls" - it breaks their 'immersion'

But the definitions of 'realistic' are all subjective (that's crazy.. means nobody is agreeing on what "realistic" means, when we all think we know already).

 

- some players cant stand 3pp - but those same players expect to find high powered specialist sniping rifles in perfect condition lying around in the game

- other players want detailed medical kit in the game, and complex wounds and injuries, but they like to play 3pp and run with a 50 kg pack on their back

- and ... I really haven't decided how realistic are zombies? I like them..

- For me, almost anything STRESSFUL is immersive in this game, as long as it IS possible to get through it sometimes, and that even includes knowing you might not be able to jump over a fence exactly when you want to.

Edited October 19, 2015 by pilgrim

[robophant 102]

*snip*

 

Most people are not 'really' asking for full realism - neither with physics nor with some over-tedious game-mechanics. I think people just don't like artificial balancing and poor rule-sets.

 

For example Elite Dangerous: You can travel with your space ship to most systems, but for some systems you need a 'permission' to get there. So, instead of giving the players the possibility to take the risk by going there anyway (without permission) and deal with the local authorities (like a real outlaw), the devs just disabled the option to lock said system into your nav-computer - Bang! Problem solved.

Lore-wise one wonders why there are any faction wars going on in that game since every faction could just disable the possibility to lock their systems into a nav-computer.

 

Complaints about cheap game-mechanics or rules like that are often mistaken for the demand for 'super-realism' in games.

 

A game doesn't have to copy every aspect of real life but at least it should make some kind of sense.

 

DayZ is heading in the right direction - even though I really hate the apple-picking-lottery

 

(edit)

I voted "other" because the apple-lottery isn't in the list :D

Edited October 20, 2015 by robophant

[scriptfactory 620]

Most people are not 'really' asking for full realism - neither with physics nor with some over-tedious game-mechanics. I think people just don't like artificial balancing and poor rule-sets.

 

 

...

 

I voted "other" because the apple-lottery isn't in the list :D

 

Like someone else in this thread mentioned, I feel that people are using the term "realism" for their own agenda while ignoring the multitude of other unrealistic elements in this game.

 

Regarding your Elite example, one of the papers called this "statial incoherence". You should, theoretically, be able to just fly to whatever star system you feel like. It would, perhaps, feel more coherent to require "stargates" to jump between systems like in Eve Online. Then having a pass to enter a system would make sense. But this would limit players in other ways so they chose a pretty incoherent way to create their content gates. Kinda' sad since Elite is, pretty much, the most coherent space sim I own.

Regarding the apple lottery: I have a huge problem with all random elements in this game. From the apple and berry picking to the random loss of food from a can. Thankfully the DayZ dev team said this was only placeholder functionality. There are questions in the Q&A status report thread about this, one from myself. Let's see if Brian responds.

[Rufert 146]

The fact that I don't have very good control over my character. 

 

While one to one control over your character in video games is impossible, Dayz does a lot of things that just makes you feel like you're playing mechwarrior rather than being a guy doing stuff in a game. I'm not saying I want to be a backflipping ninja or crazy COD 360 noscoper. 

 

But the way you're locked into many animations, can't cancel them very easily. Unable to get your weapon out. Often unaware of what state your body is in(something you'd be able to feel in real life) But instead have to look down your body to see if you remembered to put your pants on before leaving the house, or if you're crouched and if you have your weapon out. The latter made a lot worse by the unresponsiveness of the controls, in particular using and equipping items. 

I've died numerous times clicking the hotbar to get my gun out, and it not responding, me clicking again, nothing. Third time it comes out, but instantly puts it back again because it then registered an earlier click. It's really dumb.

 

Also, I feel put off a little that every character in Dayz is a very disciplined military man. Most would in my mind be civilian. Since it seems random who is immune to the virus, more civilians than soldiers would survive since there are just more of them. You're unable to easily navigate simple obstacles. Crawl out windows ect. Run up stairs. Shoot from vehicles, or while running. 

Things that some dumb panicked civilian would do. 

 

I'd very much like there to be a panic button, one that immediately cancels what you're doing so you're free to move, at the cost of throwing whatever you have in your hands on the ground. And something that allows you to sprint madly up stairs or over obstacles with the added chance of items falling out of your backpack or falling on your ass.

 

You know, for those times you're being chased by a madman with an axe, sprinting away, but decide going up these stairs can only be done at an elderly mans pace.

 

Also, I feel like bits of the world are badly designed. ARMA 3 has the incremental crouch which is fantastic.  Dayz does not. And certain barricades or walls have slits in them that are just between the three different heights you're able to put your character in. Crouch, too high, prone too low. All you can do is get shot from outside. 

I think that if they're not adding the ARMA 3 crouching mechanic then at least design the world to work with what they have. It just feels bad being shot and killed because you guy is a robot rather than a real person and refuses to look through a crack because it is at a certain(but completely reasonable) height. 

[Parazight 1594]

Game is a game.  DayZ will only be so immersive.  No matter how realistic the game gets I'll never become unaware that I'm sitting in front of my monitor.  

 

For me, the only thing that's game breaking is the alpha state of things.  But that's understandable.  So, I don't really expect to be immersed anyway.

 

Only the mechanics that don't work as intended yet 'pull me out of the game'.

 

I would totally agree that I experience much more immersion in 3pp than 1pp.  In 3pp, you are much more aware of what is going on around you than in first person.  This kind of makes up for the fact that you can't smell, read body language, or have peripheral vision.

[Alpha Cowboy 17]

If we're going to be 'realistic' then information that would be easily discernable should be listed, caliber, box magazine or internal, what parts can be swapped out. The barrel is threaded, it has an accessory rail/scope mounts, etc.

It's no longer an issue for me, but there are various firearms in game that have no caliber in the description or an incomplete caliber listed (I know something is only listed as 7.62 instead of 7.62x??)

As for medical realism, I don't know what kind of game you masochists want to play, but I sure as hell don't want to play a game with realistic injuries and treatment.

Get shot in the lower torso, need to find sterile room and a surgeon plus painkillers, anesthesia, surgical tools, and then at least 2 weeks before you're mobile again.

Oh, and if you don't have insurance they'll just let you bleed out and/or go septic and die in a ditch, which will take 12-24 hours real time, but you're in too much pain to commit suicide and are too weak to make enough noise to have zombies come finish you off.

Seems like a fun game.

Seriously, there is a line where attempting realism in a 2d mouse and keyboard work crosses from fun and original to frustrating and clunky.

We HAVE to have some sort of information relay from the game to us in a instantaneous and easily recognizable way, because no matter how hungry, thirsty, injured or sick my character is I won't feel it. Sure there isn't a hud in real life, but that's because I don't need an indicator to know I feel hungry, or that I'm hurt, and until such a time as I can physically feel what my character is status messages or icons will be necessary.

And honestly, given how hard up so many people are about the game needing to be hyper realistic I think some people need to get away from the computer and go camping.