Day Z as it should be : The Earth Abides

[Whyherro123 2283]

So, recently I've been reading what could be considered the cornerstone of post-apocalyptic fiction: The Earth Abides.

 

In it, the planet is swept free of human life by a form of measles in the 1940s. There are only a few survivors, and, in the most part, they have more difficulty with the environment than they do with other people. Hordes of locusts, hungry rats, ants, the loss of electricity and running water, all are more serious problems than other people.

 

The only instance in the entirety of the novel when other people cause issues is when an outsider comes into the group. He isn't even hostile, but he carries a disease that causes fully 1/3 of the group to die. In fact, all of the fatalities in the book are from disease, including many children as a result of diarrhea, which in all seriousness is a killer in a situation without "modern" medicine.

 

Eventually, in the 1980s, the group has degenerated into "primitive" (they use metal, but are stuck with bows and spears because all the ammunition is gone/doesn't work) tribes, that grow corn and hunt in the hills around San Francisco.

 

That is what I would like Day Z to be. Instead of worrying about bandits killing you for no reason other than shits and giggles, how about a source of clean water? Or, getting enough food to last a winter? Or, heating, especially since the gasoline is all gone? Or, diseases, from the vermin population that is spiraling out of control due to a lack of human control on their populations?

 

Instead of the "24/7 day NO ZOMBIEZ 10000% LOOT" bullshit we have going on right now. More "introspective", I guess.

 

We are, in effect, witnessing the "passing of an age". "The Long Dark" (/snerk, yes the shout-out was intentional, as that game encompasses almost everything "survival" should be). This game can be so much more than just another PvP-shooter.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Whyherro123

[8bit_Survivor 93]

+1, you have my beans sir.

Maybe the new helicopter that is being added will bring us more towards true survival....

[Schlake 2]

So, recently I've been reading what could be considered the cornerstone of post-apocalyptic fiction: The Earth Abides.

 

In it, the planet is swept free of human life by a form of measles in the 1940s. There are only a few survivors, and, in the most part, they have more difficulty with the environment than they do with other people. Hordes of locusts, hungry rats, ants, the loss of electricity and running water, all are more serious problems than other people.

 

The only instance in the entirety of the novel when other people cause issues is when an outsider comes into the group. He isn't even hostile, but he carries a disease that causes fully 1/3 of the group to die. In fact, all of the fatalities in the book are from disease, including many children as a result of diarrhea, which in all seriousness is a killer in a situation without "modern" medicine.

 

Eventually, in the 1980s, the group has degenerated into "primitive" (they use metal, but are stuck with bows and spears because all the ammunition is gone/doesn't work) tribes, that grow corn and hunt in the hills around San Francisco.

 

That is what I would like Day Z to be. Instead of worrying about bandits killing you for no reason other than shits and giggles, how about a source of clean water? Or, getting enough food to last a winter? Or, heating, especially since the gasoline is all gone? Or, diseases, from the vermin population that is spiraling out of control due to a lack of human control on their populations?

 

Instead of the "24/7 day NO ZOMBIEZ 10000% LOOT" bullshit we have going on right now. More "introspective", I guess.

 

We are, in effect, witnessing the "passing of an age". "The Long Dark" (/snerk, yes the shout-out was intentional, as that game encompasses almost everything "survival" should be). This game can be so much more than just another PvP-shooter.

They've got a game for you: Rust.  Most people dont want to run around looking for water and being killed because they stood out in the rain too long.  Or they get hit by a rat and contract a disease which kills them.  That sounds like real fun.  Or you make the long trek to find civilization only to find that theres no clean water, you get a disease and then you die.  This will catch on for sure.

[hekeetsu 86]

They've got a game for you: Rust. Most people dont want to run around looking for water and being killed because they stood out in the rain too long. Or they get hit by a rat and contract a disease which kills them. That sounds like real fun. Or you make the long trek to find civilization only to find that theres no clean water, you get a disease and then you die. This will catch on for sure.

What about the original "anti-game" idea and the mod(and eventually standalone) being not a casual shooter but a hardcore survival game.

[Noctoras 409]

For just another shooter, the map is too big with a player count too little, so I don't see this ever getting an immersive PvP only experience on the long run, this game needs more . Thus I am with the OP, give the game more content. Individual player skills, an environment to cope with, elements which make interaction apart from KOS meaningful.

[Yuval 221]

The story is way different than what DayZ is standing for. The PvE aspect of the game exist and will keep existing. Once zombies are properly implemented you will notice it much more.

This thread is just another anti-KoS thread as far as I see it. DayZ will not be a spear and stone based game and will keep carrying the bandit-like environment as you call it.

In the end the goal of players is getting the loot they want, to get a weapon and eventually set camp. But people WILL be hostile to eachother because that's how it is. "Player Choice" as Brian calls it. Fuck me if I don't get that "I wanna shoot something" feeling every weekend while I am a friendly guy most of the time.

Development for DayZ will continue, new features will be added in and once mod support is released there will be several gameplay themes players will be able to choose. Your story seems like a good idea for a mod, not the vanilla DayZ experience.

As for an anti-game experience - The devteam has done a good job already on making ammo rare, and it will be even more rare in the future. Despite that, you already have a lot of anti-game features such as the need for tools to open food cans. Obviously if you have an old character with good gear you'll find it perhaps very easy "surviving".

Edited October 1, 2015 by StanleyWasHappy

[BlinkingRiki182 54]

The game lacks purpose at the moment. Surviving is not a problem at all but making it harder to survive will not make the game any better. What the game needs is to somehow encourage player interaction. In order for this to happen, something radical must be implemented. High zombie count would be a good start but there needs to be more. If they can't achieve that, then the game will remain a PvP shooter.

[gannon46 788]

but but humans are the real threat remember everyone is a meany and would just kill each other right? sounds like an interesting book and i for one am so tired of the narrative that humans for some reason go ape shit and everyone turns into a scumbag.  thanks for the heads up OP i'll check it out. oh by the way you should check out project zomboid, its pretty neat it has seasons and the world itself is rough a friend of mine died once from an infection when he cut himself climbing through a window with broken glass still in it, when its winter or even fall some crops will not grow. its a fun game most folks are pretty friendly because the zeds and the world is so rough having another person to smash heads or a specialist like a doctor, really who would kill a doctor? and i don't see this as a KOS thread like an above poster stated i think OP is just pondering the fact that there could be a lot more danger like disease and such. 

Edited October 1, 2015 by gannon46

[chrithu 59]

They've got a game for you: Rust.  Most people dont want to run around looking for water and being killed because they stood out in the rain too long.  Or they get hit by a rat and contract a disease which kills them.  That sounds like real fun.  Or you make the long trek to find civilization only to find that theres no clean water, you get a disease and then you die.  This will catch on for sure.

You don't like those things. Doesn't mean that most people don't like it. Be careful with such assessments, because if that was true in the sense that you mean it (read: not enough people like such a game for it to be successful), then there simply is no explanation why games like Project Zomboid, like Rust (which you mentioned yourself), like FTL, like Don't Starve or any take on a Roguelike for that matter are as successful as they are despite being deliberately designed to be a pain in the players' ass by killing them in many different ways.

 

There is a group of gamers out there that actually look for exactly that: a game that challenges them, rather than being little more than an interactive movie.

 

And besides: Unless something has drastically changed in the vision and design for the final game you will have to deal with diseases, hunger, thirst and weather survival on a serious level.

[BeefBacon 1185]

Right... so how does this prevent KoS? It sounds like it'd just encourage it. There have been a bunch of times where I could have killed someone but didn't, because there's nothing on them that I need, they're not necessarily a threat and it'd probably just piss them off. Now if that guy had a bottle of precious water and a fancy hat, why would I not kill him? If he has a disease that he can give me, why would I not kill him?

 

Now, if I wanted to go looting in a large town but there were too many zombies, and I met some guy who could help me then sure - I'd work with him and loot the place. But then, after we're both happy and fat with loot... why would I not kill him? It wouldn't be KoS, sure but it's the same result.

 

I'm in favour of a more difficult game. DayZ is in alpha, you may have heard, which means it is incomplete. The devs have stated, repeatedly that they intend to make DayZ more difficult, but you people seem to think that doing so will reduce KoS. And why do people want to struggle so much? It'd be so much fun to play DayZ for 3 hours, where at hour one you find your first pair of shoes, hour two you're eating worms and at hour 3 you've shat yourself to death. Rinse and repeat because it's 'challenging'. Why do you want everyone on the server fighting over a solitary can of beans, using bows and spears? Do you not think there's a middle ground between that and everyone spawning with an M4?

[gannon46 788]

Right... so how does this prevent KoS? It sounds like it'd just encourage it. There have been a bunch of times where I could have killed someone but didn't, because there's nothing on them that I need, they're not necessarily a threat and it'd probably just piss them off. Now if that guy had a bottle of precious water and a fancy hat, why would I not kill him? If he has a disease that he can give me, why would I not kill him?

 

Now, if I wanted to go looting in a large town but there were too many zombies, and I met some guy who could help me then sure - I'd work with him and loot the place. But then, after we're both happy and fat with loot... why would I not kill him? It wouldn't be KoS, sure but it's the same result.

 

I'm in favour of a more difficult game. DayZ is in alpha, you may have heard, which means it is incomplete. The devs have stated, repeatedly that they intend to make DayZ more difficult, but you people seem to think that doing so will reduce KoS. And why do people want to struggle so much? It'd be so much fun to play DayZ for 3 hours, where at hour one you find your first pair of shoes, hour two you're eating worms and at hour 3 you've shat yourself to death. Rinse and repeat because it's 'challenging'. Why do you want everyone on the server fighting over a solitary can of beans, using bows and spears? Do you not think there's a middle ground between that and everyone spawning with an M4?

all i have to say is thank god for project zomboid. only damn survival game thats brutal right now and dayz will be tough but the pussies are gonna end up making it weak.

[chrithu 59]

Right... so how does this prevent KoS? It sounds like it'd just encourage it. There have been a bunch of times where I could have killed someone but didn't, because there's nothing on them that I need, they're not necessarily a threat and it'd probably just piss them off. Now if that guy had a bottle of precious water and a fancy hat, why would I not kill him? If he has a disease that he can give me, why would I not kill him?

 

Now, if I wanted to go looting in a large town but there were too many zombies, and I met some guy who could help me then sure - I'd work with him and loot the place. But then, after we're both happy and fat with loot... why would I not kill him? It wouldn't be KoS, sure but it's the same result.

 

My take on answering those questions:

 

My "perfect" DayZ would be balanced in such a way that waiting in ambush for a "wealthy" victim to pass by would come at the serious risk of starving/dehydrating along the way if it takes a certain amount of time. Weapons and Ammo would be rare and degrade at a rate that would make you seriously consider whether to try and kill another player or keep the weapon and ammo i order to hunt an animal or fend off Zeds. Food would degrade at a rate that would make it impractical to carry around more than the bare minimum needed on a loot run, while either preserving a stash of food at a base or hunting animals for food on a daily basis.

 

Basically the player should never be able to reach a state at which he doesn't have to worry about the basic needs on an ingame-daily basis: Get food, get water, get wood for the fire and only use what little sparetime/daylight you have left for looting cities or finding other survivors. Weapons and ammo should be both very rare AND hard to get in terms of fending off zombies so the player isn't tempted to waste ammo on another player that may or may not have what the killer needs instead of using it to kill an animal for food or protecting himself from Zombies while looting a town. That way you encourage coop play because after you formed a group you can divide the daily errands among the group: one guy get's and cooks water, one guy hunts animals for food, freeing up time for a third and fourth to go to a city to get medical supplies.

 

PvP would happen only mid to endgame on a group vs group level when groups have established bases and a steady supply of food, water, medical stuff and ammo.

 

I really hope modding support and server settings will allow for that kind of custom balancing. Because that would erase the need for the devs to find a middleground that kind of pleases everyone. Instead it would enable everyone to setup the game in a way that suits his preferences.

[BeefBacon 1185]

My take on answering those questions:

 

My "perfect" DayZ would be balanced in such a way that waiting in ambush for a "wealthy" victim to pass by would come at the serious risk of starving/dehydrating along the way if it takes a certain amount of time. Weapons and Ammo would be rare and degrade at a rate that would make you seriously consider whether to try and kill another player or keep the weapon and ammo i order to hunt an animal or fend off Zeds. Food would degrade at a rate that would make it impractical to carry around more than the bare minimum needed on a loot run, while either preserving a stash of food at a base or hunting animals for food on a daily basis.

 

Basically the player should never be able to reach a state at which he doesn't have to worry about the basic needs on an ingame-daily basis: Get food, get water, get wood for the fire and only use what little sparetime/daylight you have left for looting cities or finding other survivors. Weapons and ammo should be both very rare AND hard to get in terms of fending off zombies so the player isn't tempted to waste ammo on another player that may or may not have what the killer needs instead of using it to kill an animal for food or protecting himself from Zombies while looting a town. That way you encourage coop play because after you formed a group you can divide the daily errands among the group: one guy get's and cooks water, one guy hunts animals for food, freeing up time for a third and fourth to go to a city to get medical supplies.

 

PvP would happen only mid to endgame on a group vs group level when groups have established bases and a steady supply of food, water, medical stuff and ammo.

 

I really hope modding support and server settings will allow for that kind of custom balancing. Because that would erase the need for the devs to find a middleground that kind of pleases everyone. Instead it would enable everyone to setup the game in a way that suits his preferences.

 

While that sound fun in theory, I don't think it'd work well in practice. Most people are going to have a hard time putting in the hours to get anywhere. People are unlikely to form long-term groups with randoms. Short term I can see some sort of relationship being formed, but one bullet isn't going to be worth as much as the inventory of the player you just killed. Having a very small amount of ammo, again, sounds awesome -and it would be - but who wants to spend hours on end scouring the map for one bullet? Sure you're surviving along the way, but what's the point in even having a gun if ammo is going to be so insanely difficult to find that you're having to decide between killing that geared player and shooting a deer? It isn't practical.

 

What would be practical, however, is greatly increasing the rate at which ammo spawns, but reducing the number of rounds that spawn in each pile. So instead of finding, I don't know, 20 9mm rounds you'll only find 2, but there'll be 10 other locations in that village where 2 9mm rounds have spawned. This means that finding some ammo for your gun is relatively easy, but finding a lot means clearing out a village of zombies, which should be no easy task.

 

PvP and KoS will always happen because the reward will outweigh the risk, even if the only reward is in neutralising a potential threat. Would scarcity mean people might be less willing to kill freshspawns? Probably, but it won't stop KoS against geared players.

 

I too look forward to modding. Super keen on a STALKER-themed mod. Misery multiplayer.

[IgnobleBasterd 161]

While that sound fun in theory, I don't think it'd work well in practice. Most people are going to have a hard time putting in the hours to get anywhere. People are unlikely to form long-term groups with randoms. Short term I can see some sort of relationship being formed, but one bullet isn't going to be worth as much as the inventory of the player you just killed. Having a very small amount of ammo, again, sounds awesome -and it would be - but who wants to spend hours on end scouring the map for one bullet? Sure you're surviving along the way, but what's the point in even having a gun if ammo is going to be so insanely difficult to find that you're having to decide between killing that geared player and shooting a deer? It isn't practical.

 

What would be practical, however, is greatly increasing the rate at which ammo spawns, but reducing the number of rounds that spawn in each pile. So instead of finding, I don't know, 20 9mm rounds you'll only find 2, but there'll be 10 other locations in that village where 2 9mm rounds have spawned. This means that finding some ammo for your gun is relatively easy, but finding a lot means clearing out a village of zombies, which should be no easy task.

 

PvP and KoS will always happen because the reward will outweigh the risk, even if the only reward is in neutralising a potential threat. Would scarcity mean people might be less willing to kill freshspawns? Probably, but it won't stop KoS against geared players.

 

I too look forward to modding. Super keen on a STALKER-themed mod. Misery multiplayer.

This. It would work if nobody had to work/study/wo whatever and actually had the time to sit for many hours per day. Most people don't have this kind of time, sadly.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

I mean, in order for anything like this to happen you basically have to get rid of 99% of the content in the game, including the map. It's a bit late in development to in essence do everything but the engine from scratch... again. "Yeah guys, sorry, we're taking out all guns, vehicles, and most of the other things too. We feel like at this point drastic change is necessary and the game would obviously be 100 times better if people almost never killed each other and we all play as cavemen."

 

 

 

 

So, recently I've been reading what could be considered the cornerstone of post-apocalyptic fiction: The Earth Abides.

 

In it, the planet is swept free of human life by a form of measles in the 1940s. There are only a few survivors, and, in the most part, they have more difficulty with the environment than they do with other people. Hordes of locusts, hungry rats, ants, the loss of electricity and running water, all are more serious problems than other people.

 

The only instance in the entirety of the novel when other people cause issues is when an outsider comes into the group. He isn't even hostile, but he carries a disease that causes fully 1/3 of the group to die. In fact, all of the fatalities in the book are from disease, including many children as a result of diarrhea, which in all seriousness is a killer in a situation without "modern" medicine.

 

Eventually, in the 1980s, the group has degenerated into "primitive" (they use metal, but are stuck with bows and spears because all the ammunition is gone/doesn't work) tribes, that grow corn and hunt in the hills around San Francisco.

 

That is what I would like Day Z to be. Instead of worrying about bandits killing you for no reason other than shits and giggles, how about a source of clean water? Or, getting enough food to last a winter? Or, heating, especially since the gasoline is all gone? Or, diseases, from the vermin population that is spiraling out of control due to a lack of human control on their populations?

 

Instead of the "24/7 day NO ZOMBIEZ 10000% LOOT" bullshit we have going on right now. More "introspective", I guess.

 

We are, in effect, witnessing the "passing of an age". "The Long Dark" (/snerk, yes the shout-out was intentional, as that game encompasses almost everything "survival" should be). This game can be so much more than just another PvP-shooter.

 

I'd like to add that while it's a very interesting work of fiction, it's not actually a very realistic indication of what would probably happen. The reason why pests are able to thrive is because of our massive civilization - they rely on people. Sure, if society completely collapsed they could go uncontrolled for a time period, but eventually all of the edible things we have are going to go away and the rodent population will decrease significantly. It's proportionate.

 

And even with minuscule populations of people left, you'll still have conflict. Native American tribes that are often incorrectly remembered as being peaceful actually conflicted just as often, if not more than the Europeans who came later, and even shortly before their arrival massive plagues wiped out large populations of the natives. No matter what the resources are people will still compete over them.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Chaingunfighter

[B4GEL 175]

Most people are going to have a hard time putting in the hours to get anywhere.

 

This. It would work if nobody had to work/study/wo whatever and actually had the time to sit for many hours per day. Most people don't have this kind of time, sadly.

 

Sure you'd have to put in a lot of time to get the amount of gear that is standard currently but is enjoyment really so inextricably linked to the amount of gear you have? I think that for most people the enjoyment is in the journey and the interactions (PvP or friendly). The fun should start once you spawn not once you're geared and a great story can happen whether you have a hundred bullets or just one. 

 

[ColdAtrophy 1850]

I have a very strong feeling that this game will never be so survival focused. It doesn't come from a game that is that heavily survival oriented nor a studio that seems to have any real aim towards achieving such a thing.

[chrithu 59]

While that sound fun in theory, I don't think it'd work well in practice. Most people are going to have a hard time putting in the hours to get anywhere. People are unlikely to form long-term groups with randoms. Short term I can see some sort of relationship being formed, but one bullet isn't going to be worth as much as the inventory of the player you just killed. Having a very small amount of ammo, again, sounds awesome -and it would be - but who wants to spend hours on end scouring the map for one bullet? Sure you're surviving along the way, but what's the point in even having a gun if ammo is going to be so insanely difficult to find that you're having to decide between killing that geared player and shooting a deer? It isn't practical.

 

What would be practical, however, is greatly increasing the rate at which ammo spawns, but reducing the number of rounds that spawn in each pile. So instead of finding, I don't know, 20 9mm rounds you'll only find 2, but there'll be 10 other locations in that village where 2 9mm rounds have spawned. This means that finding some ammo for your gun is relatively easy, but finding a lot means clearing out a village of zombies, which should be no easy task.

 

PvP and KoS will always happen because the reward will outweigh the risk, even if the only reward is in neutralising a potential threat. Would scarcity mean people might be less willing to kill freshspawns? Probably, but it won't stop KoS against geared players.

 

I too look forward to modding. Super keen on a STALKER-themed mod. Misery multiplayer.

 

 

This. It would work if nobody had to work/study/wo whatever and actually had the time to sit for many hours per day. Most people don't have this kind of time, sadly.

 

 

I dunno. Again like I said before, that's you guys' perspective on it. There are harsh games out there, that take several two hour evening sessions to get anywhere and they are played by casuals and working people just as much as hardcore gaming teenagers that have complete afternoons and evenings of time after coming home from school. Overly realistic mechanics in a game are a thing.

 

I mean it isn't by coincidence that among the first made and most downloaded mods for both Fallout3/NV and Skyrim are mods that add hunger/thirst, weather survival and harsher inventory limits that made the game deliberately harder and slower paced. Saying nobody would find that fun is just wrong. There are a lot of players out there that actually would find it very fun.

 

Which brings me back to the point that what DayZ needs is a solid and well implemented modding support. There is no way in hell the Devs are able to find a balance that pleases all kinds of players. We guys discussing here are just living proof I don't see us agreeing on the matter unless we are able to each have the ability to play the game the way we like best.

[Noctoras 409]

PvP and KoS will always happen because the reward will outweigh the risk, even if the only reward is in neutralising a potential threat. Would scarcity mean people might be less willing to kill freshspawns? Probably, but it won't stop KoS against geared players..

 

That's where I think a dedicated skill system would help. If you have med capabilities and I don't have them, you might be a good partner for me to get me through my char life for instance. Skills could also be teachable or to be learnt from books, but an individual skill set, setting you apart from the person you meet would help there. No, it will not end PvP and PvP should remain part of the game in my opinion. Part of it, not the sole content, which it currently is.

 

As for scarcity - early 0.55 for me has seen much more player interaction than any following builds for the mere reason that not everyone was stuffed to death with guns and ammo. I have seen people actually trading ammo for food in game. Of course, they could have just tried to kill each other, but I reckon the person asking for ammo had a gun but no matching ammo and the other person, well, I dunno, maybe was just about to starve. Why go into a melee fight with uncertain end - so not everyone having 3 guns at the ready might be a benefit to interaction as well. And as someone who has a gun I probably would not immediately shppt anything that moves, since there would be many people I would not perceive as a direct threat.

 

Basically the biggest problem is, though, that there is little to do once geared and gearing is way too easy ever since 0.55 again.

I accept that you have a different stance on this issue, but that's what boards are there for after all.

 

Have a good day.

 

A quick edit: As for modding support, I'm not even sure if this helps or if it further splits a declinign community between different mods - but this remains to be seen, I can see it go either way depending on how the actual mods look like.

Edited October 2, 2015 by Noctoras

[lrp1984 199]

I dunno. Again like I said before, that's you guys' perspective on it. There are harsh games out there, that take several two hour evening sessions to get anywhere and they are played by casuals and working people just as much as hardcore gaming teenagers that have complete afternoons and evenings of time after coming home from school. Overly realistic mechanics in a game are a thing.

 

I mean it isn't by coincidence that among the first made and most downloaded mods for both Fallout3/NV and Skyrim are mods that add hunger/thirst, weather survival and harsher inventory limits that made the game deliberately harder and slower paced. Saying nobody would find that fun is just wrong. There are a lot of players out there that actually would find it very fun.

 

Which brings me back to the point that what DayZ needs is a solid and well implemented modding support. There is no way in hell the Devs are able to find a balance that pleases all kinds of players. We guys discussing here are just living proof I don't see us agreeing on the matter unless we are able to each have the ability to play the game the way we like best.

 

KOS happens so often because it's the preferred play-style of the majority of the player base of this game. Sure, a lot of people also enjoy the looting aspect, having to search around for stuff, and the survival side to a certain extent. It adds a little more realism to the murder simulator if you need to think about your health and what clothes to wear. You also know that your victim has also had to worry about similar health and clothing issues in his/her long or short life. DayZ is still essentially a looting and murder simulator (with a lot of running in between). If you're not the one murdering other people, then you're playing as the victim. It's what most of us enjoy about the game.

 

You might think that much harsher conditions and less supplies will create more player interaction in the game, and less KOS, you're wrong, it'd kill the game, and you'd be left playing on 5/30 servers, almost never seeing another player, and if you did see another player, 3 out of those 5 people will still kill you on sight for your stuff. I'm not saying I agree with this, but it's just how it is.

 

The developers get a lot more feedback when they add new guns, vehicles, helicopters and clothes than they do when they add new types of plants to grow. How many people do you see wearing the full tanned leather outfit shooting a bow and arrow? How often do you come across someone fishing at a pond? I like those aspects of the game, but they're not bringing in the players.

 

The devs will continue to add more ways to kill people because it's what the masses want, and if they're clever, they'll add more gore to make those kills that bit more satisfying. It's a sad truth, but if they added new ways to torture victims (flaying skin, cutting off limbs, burning people, being able to finely cut someone to scar them etc) then those mechanics would be used far more often than any of the crafting or survival aspects.

[lrp1984 199]

That's where I think a dedicated skill system would help. If you have med capabilities and I don't have them, you might be a good partner for me to get me through my char life for instance. Skills could also be teachable or to be learnt from books, but an individual skill set, setting you apart from the person you meet would help there. No, it will not end PvP and PvP should remain part of the game in my opinion. Part of it, not the sole content, which it currently is.

 

As for scarcity - early 0.55 for me has seen much more player interaction than any following builds for the mere reason that not everyone was stuffed to death with guns and ammo. I have seen people actually trading ammo for food in game. Of course, they could have just tried to kill each other, but I reckon the person asking for ammo had a gun but no matching ammo and the other person, well, I dunno, maybe was just about to starve. Why go into a melee fight with uncertain end - so not everyone having 3 guns at the ready might be a benefit to interaction as well. And as someone who has a gun I probably would not immediately shppt anything that moves, since there would be many people I would not perceive as a direct threat.

 

Basically the biggest problem is, though, that there is little to do once geared and gearing is way too easy ever since 0.55 again.

I accept that you have a different stance on this issue, but that's what boards are there for after all.

 

Have a good day.

 

A quick edit: As for modding support, I'm not even sure if this helps or if it further splits a declinign community between different mods - but this remains to be seen, I can see it go either way depending on how the actual mods look like.

 

The problem is, how exactly will they know the person they're killing has any required skills before they kill them? Are people with medical skills going to run in medical scrubs or paramedic uniforms all day? If people dressed as doctors get killed less, Bandits will dress as doctors, get close, and kill you. A skills system will make no difference to KOS, in fact it'll make it worse as a lot of people will play whatever "skill" gives them the best damage, or lets them be a tank.

[xalienax 621]

The problem is, how exactly will they know the person they're killing has any required skills before they kill them? Are people with medical skills going to run in medical scrubs or paramedic uniforms all day? If people dressed as doctors get killed less, Bandits will dress as doctors, get close, and kill you. A skills system will make no difference to KOS, in fact it'll make it worse as a lot of people will play whatever "skill" gives them the best damage, or lets them be a tank.

Im really glad you brought this up. In the vid posted here a while back devs said that 'soft skills' wouldn't directly effect combat with things like damage modifiers and such and wanted to leave player skill as the determining factor any where possible. Now, this is a double edged sword for me because on one hand i had hoped that the introduction of skills would make your avatar's life have value beyond the loot in your pack. the big issue is, the ONLY way that will happen if if they go back on previous statements and make your character's stats have a huge impact much more like an RPG. of course, i think we both know that would completely break what dayZ always has been.

 

The minute my and random guy come around the corner and open up on each other, and i die because he had '30 extra points in health' or some such BS, im done with the game for good.

 

That said, I do agree with the OP's desire for a much harsher environment. I really want to be forced to think about rather i want to use my last 2 bullets on this guy who may or may not have something good, or to hunt food for tonight. I would like much more dynamic weather and turning of seasons, winters with multiple days of 24/7 freezing temperatures, winter storms, etc. While I want to keep the choice ultimately in the hands of the player, I'd like much more realistic conditions and a much more realistic time scale. thinking 5, 10, 20 play sessions into the future perhaps.

[Whyherro123 2283]

I just have to say: I never said that I want PvP to be removed. I just 1) want there to be "something else" to do, other than PvP (struggle against the environment, mostly. Day Z Standalone takes place in Autumn, probably mid-to-late October. I want cold temperatures, rain, early morning frosts, etc) and 2) PvP to happen for a reason, instead of "just because".

 

Imagine if, outside of your little group, you couldn't be sure if the other survivors were safe from disease (that is, they could carry a disease and you wouldn't know it until you got sick). That would give you a reason to kill them, wouldn't it? Or, they had a surplus of food, and didn't want to trade with you (see above rationale). You storm their compound, kill them, and take it.

 

Instead of just "freshspawn running along that road -BLAM-, alright, who is next"?

 

The "most fun" I've ever had in this game is when resources were scarce, and I actually had to WORK for my fun. When water wells didn't work, and you had to plan travel based on natural water sources. When food spawns were bugged, and drastically cut back. Conversely, when food, gear, etc (especially ammunition) were commonplace, I got bored, very quickly. Remember when hopping guard shacks could get you kitted in 30 seconds? Boring as shit. Loot, die, respawn, repeat. Where is the fun in that.

[xalienax 621]

I just have to say: I never said that I want PvP to be removed. I just 1) want there to be "something else" to do, other than PvP (struggle against the environment, mostly. Day Z Standalone takes place in Autumn, probably mid-to-late October. I want cold temperatures, rain, early morning frosts, etc) and 2) PvP to happen for a reason, instead of "just because".

 

Imagine if, outside of your little group, you couldn't be sure if the other survivors were safe from disease (that is, they could carry a disease and you wouldn't know it until you got sick). That would give you a reason to kill them, wouldn't it? Or, they had a surplus of food, and didn't want to trade with you (see above rationale). You storm their compound, kill them, and take it.

 

Instead of just "freshspawn running along that road -BLAM-, alright, who is next"?

 

The "most fun" I've ever had in this game is when resources were scarce, and I actually had to WORK for my fun. When water wells didn't work, and you had to plan travel based on natural water sources. When food spawns were bugged, and drastically cut back. Conversely, when food, gear, etc (especially ammunition) were commonplace, I got bored, very quickly. Remember when hopping guard shacks could get you kitted in 30 seconds? Boring as shit. Loot, die, respawn, repeat. Where is the fun in that.

+1 man. I've always been a 'PvP player' in that i'd rather hit another player or clan and take their stuff then trade fairly or work for it. BUT Like you, i do wish there was a reason to care about risks you take. a reason to CARE about dieing beside the items in your pack. there is no real struggle, and your actual 'life' is meaningless. why not try to go full yolo and punch a kitted player to death? you have NOTHING to loose if he/she has better gear. I have no problem with PvP oriented play styles- its a path i walk myself i do however wish the game was deeper then deathmatch while your avatar occasionaly complains about his tummy bein empty.

[Martmital 436]

Fuck me...  over two years and people are still crying about PvP and Kill on Sight!

 

Give people access to guns and ammo in a game with other people and bitches are gonna get rekt'd.  Nothing the Devs add or take away from the game will ever stop this!