Day Z as it should be : The Earth Abides

[xalienax 621]

Fuck me...  over two years and people are still crying about PvP and Kill on Sight!

 

Give people access to guns and ammo in a game with other people and bitches are gonna get rekt'd.  Nothing the Devs add or take away from the game will ever stop this!

most reasonable people don't want nor are trying to 'stop' KOS or PvP. However, the game would be much better if it were deeper then that. in it's current state it's still little more then TDM with your avatar occasionally moaning about being hungry.

[chrithu 59]

KOS happens so often because it's the preferred play-style of the majority of the player base of this game. Sure, a lot of people also enjoy the looting aspect, having to search around for stuff, and the survival side to a certain extent. It adds a little more realism to the murder simulator if you need to think about your health and what clothes to wear. You also know that your victim has also had to worry about similar health and clothing issues in his/her long or short life. DayZ is still essentially a looting and murder simulator (with a lot of running in between). If you're not the one murdering other people, then you're playing as the victim. It's what most of us enjoy about the game.

 

You might think that much harsher conditions and less supplies will create more player interaction in the game, and less KOS, you're wrong, it'd kill the game, and you'd be left playing on 5/30 servers, almost never seeing another player, and if you did see another player, 3 out of those 5 people will still kill you on sight for your stuff. I'm not saying I agree with this, but it's just how it is.

 

The developers get a lot more feedback when they add new guns, vehicles, helicopters and clothes than they do when they add new types of plants to grow. How many people do you see wearing the full tanned leather outfit shooting a bow and arrow? How often do you come across someone fishing at a pond? I like those aspects of the game, but they're not bringing in the players.

 

The devs will continue to add more ways to kill people because it's what the masses want, and if they're clever, they'll add more gore to make those kills that bit more satisfying. It's a sad truth, but if they added new ways to torture victims (flaying skin, cutting off limbs, burning people, being able to finely cut someone to scar them etc) then those mechanics would be used far more often than any of the crafting or survival aspects.

 

True indeed. But in my view that's to no small part because that's the easiest parts to get done with this engine. What I mean to say is that if you read Dean's old posts on where he wants the mod and later on standalone to go his vision always sounded like Project Zomboid with decent FPS graphics and decent player interaction (including combat). Trying to do this on the Arma Engine though slowed him and the team severely down on developing any content that the arma engine didn't support out of the box. The game (mod and standalone) for the majority of it's existence so far did offer very little for survival game enthusiasts. So of course as of now the playerbase consists mainly of PvP folk that wouldn't care at all if the survival stuff was removed again altogether, because the game still has the survival stuff poorly balanced and by now there are some pretty awesome alternatives to DayZ in existence that do great on the survival front so people simply migrated or never even got into DayZ

 

I am a survival game fan. Funny enough DayZ mod was the game getting me into this genre. But the lack of progress on the survival mechanics front pretty much drove me and the group I used to play with slowly away from DayZ. I mean that routine of running to the same old place, getting guns, and then going to the hills over electro to snipe unsuspecting new spawns is only fun for so long (a year and a half somewhere in there). We ended up playing arma 2 coop missions before finally just disbanding. I ended up playing 7 Days to Die and now Ark since a few weeks. But honestly I'd love to have a lot of their survival mechanocs and balancing in DayZ/Arma Engine, because from an audiosvisual point of view no game is as realistic as DayZ, it just looks and feels pretty awesome.

[Dagwood 680]

Game needs an X-factor. Zombies can be X-factor.

I have 30 rounds for sks and food etc. I get cornered by zombies in house and am forced to expend 25 rounds and take a small beating. Now I have infected wounds and I've alerted any hostile players in town to my presence.

Situations like the above will make dayz fun again. Let's hope .60 really changes the game.

[Martmital 436]

most reasonable people don't want nor are trying to 'stop' KOS or PvP. However, the game would be much better if it were deeper then that. in it's current state it's still little more then TDM with your avatar occasionally moaning about being hungry.

 

In it's current state?  Even when we just had the mod, all it was, was just a DM with the need to eat and drink every now and again.  I'm all for making the enviroment more of a threat, but no matter how harsh you make it, people will still try and kill you.

[xalienax 621]

Game needs an X-factor. Zombies can be X-factor.

I have 30 rounds for sks and food etc. I get cornered by zombies in house and am forced to expend 25 rounds and take a small beating. Now I have infected wounds and I've alerted any hostile players in town to my presence.

Situations like the above will make dayz fun again. Let's hope .60 really changes the game.

I just hope they can give us zombies that are a legitimate challenge, not just hard because they are 'broken' (eg inconsistent hit reg, Clipping thru objects that you can shoot/mele thru, desynch, etc)

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

I have a very strong feeling that this game will never be so survival focused. It doesn't come from a game that is that heavily survival oriented nor a studio that seems to have any real aim towards achieving such a thing.

 

Well, this is arguably a new genre of sorts.

 

So maybe their experience with sim games is to their credit?

 

Making survival visceral in a video game takes oodles of immersive detail and I would say the depth of a sim engine lends itself well to this....

[xalienax 621]

In it's current state?  Even when we just had the mod, all it was, was just a DM with the need to eat and drink every now and again.  I'm all for making the enviroment more of a threat, but no matter how harsh you make it, people will still try and kill you.

and again, thats fine. That's good actually, it creates an intense dynamic no AI system could ever achieve, But that shouldn't be all there is to do.

 

Some of the most successful community mods added things like complex base building, vehicle customization, heck origins had a flying helicopter base! this was all a ton of extra content for players to get together and DO -Aside- from just running around the busiest town and shooting each other over and over. the SA has next to no reason to think or play with a mindset other tan  'where can i get some quick action!?"

[Noctoras 409]

most reasonable people don't want nor are trying to 'stop' KOS or PvP. However, the game would be much better if it were deeper then that. in it's current state it's still little more then TDM with your avatar occasionally moaning about being hungry.

 

not STOP, but give people more to do than run-gear-shoot-die-spawn with a can of beans inbetween. Give them a reason for interaction - I don't buy the "if there is a gun, everyone will only spray and pray" - there is a reason we have civilization nowadays. The world gave us reasons to cooperate. It also gave us reasons to kill each other. Okay, that's too philosophic, but the essence is, that there should be an incentive for either way of action.

[xalienax 621]

not STOP, but give people more to do than run-gear-shoot-die-spawn with a can of beans inbetween. Give them a reason for interaction - I don't buy the "if there is a gun, everyone will only spray and pray" - there is a reason we have civilization nowadays. The world gave us reasons to cooperate. It also gave us reasons to kill each other. Okay, that's too philosophic, but the essence is, that there should be an incentive for either way of action.

that's kind of what i was saying. the game need more depth. there needs to be a reason to care about if you die.. or for that matter a reason to go for the 'better stuff'. the lack of your life having any real value on its own, quick and easy to get back to combat effective etc. isn't good for longevity of a survival game.

[Dagwood 680]

that's kind of what i was saying. the game need more depth. there needs to be a reason to care about if you die.. or for that matter a reason to go for the 'better stuff'. the lack of your life having any real value on its own, quick and easy to get back to combat effective etc. isn't good for longevity of a survival game.

If I had a suppressed weapon, I would be pretty damn careful about not getting into stupid firefights if zombies are a real threat/nuisance. Going from silent bringer of death unto the infected back to unarmed fresh meat would be pretty good incentive. I'm telling you, proper zombies are the key. I'm hoping that this time they're taking to rehash the zombie AI means that we'll get something better than we've seen from any game of this genre. Fingers crossed!

[xalienax 621]

If I had a suppressed weapon, I would be pretty damn careful about not getting into stupid firefights if zombies are a real threat/nuisance. Going from silent bringer of death unto the infected back to unarmed fresh meat would be pretty good incentive. I'm telling you, proper zombies are the key. I'm hoping that this time they're taking to rehash the zombie AI means that we'll get something better than we've seen from any game of this genre. Fingers crossed!

Yeah i just hope when they come back they come well done and the challenge isn't a matter of how many buttons you can mash while hoping the zed doesnt glitch out and do something impossible- like face tank 2 magazines, run thru concrete, etc.

[ColdAtrophy 1850]

Well, this is arguably a new genre of sorts.

 

So maybe their experience with sim games is to their credit?

 

Making survival visceral in a video game takes oodles of immersive detail and I would say the depth of a sim engine lends itself well to this....

 

I'm just saying that the devs do not appear to have plans aimed at making this game, DayZ SA, as survival oriented as the OP was suggesting.

[Noctoras 409]

nope, but I would diiiiiiiig a real sandbox game based on the DayZ game with an even bigger map, where PvP is an element, but not the all dominant one

Edited October 2, 2015 by Noctoras

[Martmital 436]

 I don't buy the "if there is a gun, everyone will only spray and pray" - there is a reason we have civilization nowadays. The world gave us reasons to cooperate. It also gave us reasons to kill each other. Okay, that's too philosophic, but the essence is, that there should be an incentive for either way of action.

 

Civilisation is the reason for kiling each other.  If I can grow more food then my neighbour, I can feed more people.  If I can feed more people, chances are I can draw upon more manpower in which to fight my neighbour and defeat him.  Giving me more wealth, land and manpower in which to repeat the cycle.  DayZ is more like the first guy planting a seed rather than trying to recreate civilisation.  Unless you are a family member (known friend) or part of my tribe (clan) then you are a threat, until proven otherwise and you'll be killed if needs be.

[Noctoras 409]

Civilisation is the reason for kiling each other.

 

:o  well, I better just leave it be at this point - not only, because it strays ever further off topic :D

[Schlake 2]

You don't like those things. Doesn't mean that most people don't like it. Be careful with such assessments, because if that was true in the sense that you mean it (read: not enough people like such a game for it to be successful), then there simply is no explanation why games like Project Zomboid, like Rust (which you mentioned yourself), like FTL, like Don't Starve or any take on a Roguelike for that matter are as successful as they are despite being deliberately designed to be a pain in the players' ass by killing them in many different ways.

There is a group of gamers out there that actually look for exactly that: a game that challenges them, rather than being little more than an interactive movie.

And besides: Unless something has drastically changed in the vision and design for the final game you will have to deal with diseases, hunger, thirst and weather survival on a serious level.

The Day z mod was not succesful because of those reasons and this game certainly wont be of it follows that formula. The designers never wanted a game like that. Survival? Sure. But a game where you die by crop failure? Yeah, right.

[Noctoras 409]

The Day z mod was not succesful because of those reasons and this game certainly wont be of it follows that formula. The designers never wanted a game like that. Survival? Sure. But a game where you die by crop failure? Yeah, right.

 

I could recommend you some good survival games: Doom, Quake, Unreal Tournament (I guess there would be Call of Duty or Half Life as well, but the PvE part might be too large for you ;) )

[Schlake 2]

I could recommend you some good survival games: Doom, Quake, Unreal Tournament (I guess there would be Call of Duty or Half Life as well, but the PvE part might be too large for you ;) )

Well better send me along with about 50% of the playerbase with that logic. But I thought I was playing a zombie apocalypse game not an RPG where I fight giant diseased rats and failed crops.

[Bororm 1156]

Schlake is not wrong.  Look at the team making DayZ, look at the development so far, look at the camo pants and guns announced every week.

 

People seem to pick extreme sides, either you have to be starving and growing crops and making fires with sticks or you are playing CoD.  DayZ is always going to lean heavier on the pvp, that's what made the game and that's what the developers know.  It doesn't mean there isn't room for farming, and crop failure and all that stuff, but it is never going to be the main focus and shouldn't be.  It's too late for that, that's a different game.

 

The game the OP describes is not what DayZ "should be" because that's never what DayZ was meant to be.  That's a different game.  A PvE focused survival game is a different game.  DayZ is and always will be a pvp focused survival game.  The pve aspect will shape up and compliment the pvp, but pvp will always remain the real draw.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Bororm

[AlphaDogMeat . 493]

That way you encourage coop play because after you formed a group you can divide the daily errands among the group: one guy get's and cooks water, one guy hunts animals for food, freeing up time for a third and fourth to go to a city to get medical supplies.

"WTF? I get to boil water for four hours AGAIN? Guys, that's like the third time this week."

Cue random team massacre sounds.

[scriptfactory 620]

All of the people requesting a hardcore game don't realize no one will play it unless the game mechanics are fun.

I feel SA will be exactly like Arma 2/3. Vanilla game will be boring but the mods will be great. The majority of people will play some Life mod or Wastelands clone, I guess.

[pilgrim* 3513]

..//..  Most people dont want to run around looking for water and being killed because they stood out in the rain too long.  .//...

 

? So I guess most people dont like DayZ ?

[Noctoras 409]

Schlake is not wrong.  Look at the team making DayZ, look at the development so far, look at the camo pants and guns announced every week.

 

People seem to pick extreme sides, either you have to be starving and growing crops and making fires with sticks or you are playing CoD.  DayZ is always going to lean heavier on the pvp, that's what made the game and that's what the developers know.  It doesn't mean there isn't room for farming, and crop failure and all that stuff, but it is never going to be the main focus and shouldn't be.

 

Fair enough, but then the game will have spelled its doom.

Player / map size ratio, time to get geared and run towards PvP will give you an ever diminishing player base.

 

Long ago, I was heavily into PvP (Unreal Tournament) at the time and my clan won some leagues and tournaments. I wouldn't bother with a jogging simulator, if I want to dive into a clean, outstanding PvP experience. The biggest skill I can train here is bore myself on sniper hill until I can finally make someone's screen go black and get a hard one on that - great. Well, I am out of my teens and don't have that much time at hands anymore.

 

This game has become a weird mix, but it won't succeed as a PvP shooter with crops attached either, that's for sure.

[Schlake 2]

? So I guess most people dont like DayZ ?

Dayz is a game of player interaction that was forged by pvp and fear of zombies. Not dying because you stand out in the rain too long. Dont forget that the lead designer of this game, Mr Hicks, is a bandit. Which most people love to hate. You wont be getting an ultra hardcore survival game.

[Schlake 2]

Fair enough, but then the game will have spelled its doom.

Player / map size ratio, time to get geared and run towards PvP will give you an ever diminishing player base.

Long ago, I was heavily into PvP (Unreal Tournament) at the time and my clan won some leagues and tournaments. I wouldn't bother with a jogging simulator, if I want to dive into a clean, outstanding PvP experience. The biggest skill I can train here is bore myself on sniper hill until I can finally make someone's screen go black and get a hard one on that - great. Well, I am out of my teens and don't have that much time at hands anymore.

This game has become a weird mix, but it won't succeed as a PvP shooter with crops attached either, that's for sure.

The game is and always has been what you make of it. Later down the road there will be more to do. But if the only thing you can make of this game is shooting people then who's fault is that? I dont think im in the minority here that want this game to turn into farming crops and fighting off random diseases. What mechanics would make that fun in any regard?