Rocket's contribution

[S3V3N 1402]

I'm still puzzled, why someone would leave a project like Dayz, which is really quite a unique development and one that few other studios besides Bohemia would have tackled. Especially when you had to fight to make it happen and to stay on top of it all. No matter the success of a prototype, it is always risky to produce sandbox games. I think Bohemia are a bit more open than most studios to taking risks and they rely on their luck to some extent. And they seem to encourage really unique side projects like the Take on Helicopters, Mars Mission thing or even Dog training simulations; not all of it comes true, but Bohemia ist quite a diverse studio.

 

I think it is highly unusual that Rocket - who had a lot to say about the game at the start - simply vanishes from this development and has not been actively engaged for almost two years now. I wouldn't be too surprised, if he was working on something else, but last I heard is he wanted to found his own studio. What didn't work out, or why haven't we heard from him, since?

 

His unique contribution was to mod zombies into the game, which changed the Chernarus landscape into something you just saw as a strategic map for military simulation to a living country, or rather a country of the undead. Coincidentially it fell in with the huge success of "The Walking Dead", which to me has a similar vibe of travelling, looting and making lifesaving decisions. I think the game kind of "self-propelled" and fueled its own hype to the point, where people started to think it was going to be much more than a game. It must have been tough hanging on through the development, because a lot of heat has and is still guided toward the game; but you have to be prepared for that kind of feedback too when a game development doesn't go as smoothly as people had hoped for.

 

Tim Schaeffer once said that it took him ten years to develop Grim Fandango, which is still one of the best adventure games made to date and even holds up visually pretty well. Dayz is going to become a classic in its own rights. It takes time to develop these kind of games that are more than a franchise with annual reboots. Maybe he became too impatient about the time it takes, maybe the scope of the development was overwhelming or too many things went wrong at the start and he felt like they would never see the light. 5-10 years should be the development time for most games, instead we bow to the "customer" and try to rush things in 1-2 years at most. Compromise is the only way to go. In the end a game still is a product, some with more some with less artistic pedigree. 

 

I can imagine his name being affiliated with Dayz in the future, but I think he deconstructed his own legend by leaving like that. It's a bit disappointing to me. I see games somewhat like a marriage. You don't bail out or sleep in other beds, because you made a commitment and you will see it through, come hell or high water. It's the only way to go on and you have to keep believing in success; divorce is not an option. Especially as long as there is hope and backing for a successful release. All of which is still present in Dayz. So why would anyone leave a game they invented in the first place? If he had a new + better idea I'd partically understand the decision, but since we haven't heard from him in a while, I really wonder what happened and why the project went on as it is. Without its creator.

 

I also feel this is kind of a touchy or taboo subject, but I still hope we'll see or hear from him in the future and I'm wishing him best of luck! 

Edited September 5, 2015 by S3V3N

[Super_Duty 466]

Burnout would be my thought on this, just total burnout... I've been on long projects, start up projects, etc. and sometimes you just have nothing left in the tank and need something new to get the juices flowing again. My opinion of course.

 

~snip~

 

I'm still puzzled, why someone would leave a project like Dayz, which is really quite a unique development and one that few other studios besides Bohemia would have tackled. 

[guppy22143 1081]

mk, picture this

 

you've spent years developing this awesome mod that everyone loves. It's entirely free, and you make it as a hobby.

 

You realize you can monetize it, and everyone starts clamoring for a standalone game. You tell them it isn't ready.

 

30% completed, pre alpha. The world is STILL bugging you for a game. You release it. Everyone says it's shit, because, surprise, it's unfinished.

 

He left because he was sick of DayZ. He's devoted years of his life to it, with little appreciation for it.

 

But it's still not cool that he left, taking millions of dollars with him and abandoning a project that HE pioneered. Honestly, Dean Hall made a decision that was good for himself, but shit for the community.

[RagedDrew 209]

From what I remember, Dean always said he would be leaving but not until the game reached Beta stages (clearly it's not Beta) as he was only here to make sure the

game went in the direction he intended and there's no need for him to hang around for bug fixing (as beta was going to be all about the bug fixes)

Why he left before this, apparently was to make a "new" game, apparently DayZ started off as something completely different but ended up as it is now and he wants to go back and

make what he first intended.

Now I might be completely wrong on all of this, it's just what I think I remember reading back then.

[Avant-Garde 229]

I remember reading something like, he was a guy who took risks and did new stuff, DayZ doesn't need someone like this at this point because its all already established and shit.

 

I do agree that this game should have a huge development time, I don't really care how long it takes to be ready, I want to see a masterpiece in the "survival" game genre (that tbh at the moment is filled with crap, its a pretty shitty genre full of scammers and half-assed clones), Half-Life levels of masterpiece.

Edited September 5, 2015 by Avant-Garde

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

Oh, a Rocket thread.  How quaint.

 

He didn't vanish.  Everyone and their mom's hairdresser knew he was leaving a year before he did.  He made it clear what his reasons were.  We've also heard from him.  He's done interviews and at least one major announcement at a gaming convention about his project, which is nothing like DayZ.

DayZ is following Rocket's vision to this day.  I see no departure from that but I'm open to anyone proving me wrong here.  Only the polished mod had a quick development time goal.  When that was scrapped for a bigger project the goal was never 1-2 years for release.  Some may even argue development has improved since his departure.

 

Wouldn't it make more sense to ask questions rather than to start a thread and fill it with inaccurate information?

[S3V3N 1402]

Oh, a Rocket thread.  How quaint.

 

He didn't vanish.  Everyone and their mom's hairdresser knew he was leaving a year before he did.  He made it clear what his reasons were.  We've also heard from him.  He's done interviews and at least one major announcement at a gaming convention about his project, which is nothing like DayZ.

DayZ is following Rocket's vision to this day.  I see no departure from that but I'm open to anyone proving me wrong here.  Only the polished mod had a quick development time goal.  When that was scrapped for a bigger project the goal was never 1-2 years for release.  Some may even argue development has improved since his departure.

 

Wouldn't it make more sense to ask questions rather than to start a thread and fill it with inaccurate information?

 

I don't know about these other threads. I didn't make this inquiry out of spite or to bash on the man. I'm also not as well-informed as you are, but curious about the reasons for his departure. If they are personal, it's none of our business. If they are professional, I can't quite relate to them other than by saying he might have been too inexperienced for the job; or put into an awkward position. Some people are great at inventions, but bad at management; Clive Sinclair comes to mind.

 

Dayz to me is the most ambitious project I have seen in a decade. Yes, GTA is big and you can do lots of stuff and the Euphoria-AI is pretty good, but that is a very different company. One with a pedigree of making similar sandbox games and a franchise to build on. Pushing something like Dayz out of the woods is an extreme undertaking, which you either do because you are completely crazy, a bit naive or  very talented. Sometimes it's the three combined. I'm just trying to gauge in which of these three categories to put Dean Hall.

 

If you or anyone could share information, I think this thread would be a good place for it. I think we all agree that we are thankful to Rocket for creating this project, in the first place. Yet a lot of us are still unsure what made him turn his back on it so completely. His last forum post is from 2014, as far as I know. Somehow I'd have expected him to stick around and give an occasional comment or even just to let us know he's still out there. Basically what I want to say is: we haven't given up on Rocket and would like to hear from him, but it seems like he doesn't want to be part of this community any more. I don't think he'd be hated, I think he'd be welcomed back with open arms. Even if he's not in the developers chair for this ride any more. Even if he never replies to his own posts. If a project goes beyond the scope of its original idea that is not a bad thing. The more difficult part may be accepting this.  

 

I guess it's that he's simply too busy with his own project and left this one behind himself as an experience, be it a good or a bad one. Still, if you push something like Dayz into life and then vanish from it completely - that seems odd.     

Edited September 5, 2015 by S3V3N

[Deathlove 2286]

(that tbh at the moment is filled with crap, its a pretty shitty genre full of scammers and half-assed clones)

 

I would disagree with this statement to an extent. The genre is providing some good games. Not every developer is out to make a quick buck and there are some very good quality games being developed right now that ppl are sticking with.

[Baker. 1484]

 

I also feel this is kind of a touchy or taboo subject, but I still hope we'll see or hear from him in the future and I'm wishing him best of luck! 

I just assume he is like so many people I know, they become hyperfocused on something and pour their entire existence into making it happen but once they climb the first mountain they get enough satisfaction from that small victory that they become contemptuous of the process.

Edited September 5, 2015 by B@ker

[tobias winfro 305]

My thoughts on Dean leaving are this, I think he had a bit too much on his plate and it took a lot out of him. At the time Dayz released into alpha/early release, the mod was going strong and people were always bugging about when is standalone coming out, why is it taking so long, why are you climbing mt everest when you promised us this and on and on.

Long story short, I think dean got burnt out. I also feel Bohemia wanted more progress for the money they had put into Dayz, these are my thoughts and feeling and I have no inside knowledge of what actually happened. That being said, I would love to hear from Dean. Get his thoughts on how standalone is shaping up and what he is doing with himself lately

[wasnu (DayZ) 392]

an baby was born (the mod)

 

an hype was born (rocket2guns)

 

from one day to another you are no more the little nerd from neighborhood, you are an star like (fill in what you will)

 

this is cool in the first time but after an while, 12-16 hours a day with interviews and other shit you are sucked from it.

 

the baby mod is now grown up and could life without his father.

 

everything is fine, you can be the "old nerd" in the neighborhood and do what you want and only sometimes an is interview ok.

 

he had an visonary idea, made good money with it and now he is sorting his new ideas of making games. i am sure he will sometimes take an look at his grown up baby but thats ok, it will live without him.

 

 

only thing to say thank you rocket, you are an great visionary and i wish you all the best. :)

[edwin3 74]

@op - if you are so deeply interested, why dont you just google?

 

and just for the fun - my speculation bout dean hall is simple, he sold his stuff and wanted to remain in charge, this lead to trouble. now he is in charge and can show his competence (or burn his money).

 

now you can burn me,

 

greets

 

 

edit: i wonder why all theese hall fans dont seem to know shit about his new game... strange

Edited September 5, 2015 by edwin3

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

I don't know about these other threads. I didn't make this inquiry out of spite or to bash on the man. I'm also not as well-informed as you are, but curious about the reasons for his departure. If they are personal, it's none of our business. If they are professional, I can't quite relate to them other than by saying he might have been too inexperienced for the job; or put into an awkward position. Some people are great at inventions, but bad at management; Clive Sinclair comes to mind.

 

Dayz to me is the most ambitious project I have seen in a decade. Yes, GTA is big and you can do lots of stuff and the Euphoria-AI is pretty good, but that is a very different company. One with a pedigree of making similar sandbox games and a franchise to build on. Pushing something like Dayz out of the woods is an extreme undertaking, which you either do because you are completely crazy, a bit naive or  very talented. Sometimes it's the three combined. I'm just trying to gauge in which of these three categories to put Dean Hall.

 

If you or anyone could share information, I think this thread would be a good place for it. I think we all agree that we are thankful to Rocket for creating this project, in the first place. Yet a lot of us are still unsure what made him turn his back on it so completely. His last forum post is from 2014, as far as I know. Somehow I'd have expected him to stick around and give an occasional comment or even just to let us know he's still out there. Basically what I want to say is: we haven't given up on Rocket and would like to hear from him, but it seems like he doesn't want to be part of this community any more. I don't think he'd be hated, I think he'd be welcomed back with open arms. Even if he's not in the developers chair for this ride any more. Even if he never replies to his own posts. If a project goes beyond the scope of its original idea that is not a bad thing. The more difficult part may be accepting this.  

 

I guess it's that he's simply too busy with his own project and left this one behind himself as an experience, be it a good or a bad one. Still, if you push something like Dayz into life and then vanish from it completely - that seems odd.     

 

You're still making assumptions and seem to have a slanted perspective on the subject.  You've used loaded and inaccurate phrases such as "simply vanishes from this development and has not been actively engaged for almost two years now", which is entirely incorrect, and "I can't quite relate to them other than by saying he might have been too inexperienced for the job; or put into an awkward position".  Out of curiosity, do you know what experience Rocket had before the standalone?  Oh, and this bit "If a project goes beyond the scope of its original idea that is not a bad thing. The more difficult part may be accepting this."  If anything, Rocket always seemed to want more and more and had some pretty wild ideas.  We'd probably be pooping in the woods right now if he had his way.

 

If you're actually interested in having an informed opinion rather than one based on what seems to be a slanted view of this entire project, why not hit Google up?  I'm certain you can find direct quotes from him.

 

Anyway, I don't really see why this even matters.  Rocket left a long time ago. 

[BCBasher 2465]

Lol, I'm new to the whole idea of DayZ since February of this year, I didn't get as far as typing "Dean Hall's..." and Google's autocomplete did the rest. Some interesting stuff but nothing really saying why he left but a good bit about RocketWerkz his new studio and ION his new game.

[monolith1985 109]

My understanding is that 1. He was homesick and always planned to return to his family. 2. He could see how dayz was turning out and knew it's biggest flaw - the people, can't be fixed, and there will always be KOS and stuff. 3. He wanted to work on a new project, which I believe he had ideas for many, and being that most games he enjoys is cult indie games like prison architect he will probably come out with something original again. 4. The community could be cruel, always giving abuse about the state of the game, or release dates on patches, even reddit users mocking his cat that had just died, making him close his reddit account

I also believe he said that him being project lead had got to a point of not beneficial and essentially holding the team back creatively

[BCBasher 2465]

My understanding is that 1. He was homesick and always planned to return to his family. 2. He could see how dayz was turning out and knew it's biggest flaw - the people, can't be fixed, and there will always be KOS and stuff. 3. He wanted to work on a new project, which I believe he had ideas for many, and being that most games he enjoys is cult indie games like prison architect he will probably come out with something original again. 4. The community could be cruel, always giving abuse about the state of the game, or release dates on patches, even reddit users mocking his cat that had just died, making him close his reddit account

I also believe he said that him being project lead had got to a point of not beneficial and essentially holding the team back creatively

 

I can see number 2 being a biggie, I love this game and where it could go if they stick to making it different. There's so many people out there that want it to be an instant gratification simulator like every other game already out there, they can't make a case for why they don't just move on and everyone has to like what they like so they get abusive 

 

If you said bad things about my beloved miss kitty my favorite child I'd get pretty pissed too.

[KenoSkir88 181]

it's biggest flaw - the people, can't be fixed, and there will always be KOS and stuff.

 

KOS people are not evidence of a flaw, it is a natural evolution of this post apocalyptic sandbox.

[BCBasher 2465]

KOS people are not evidence of a flaw, it is a natural evolution of this post apocalyptic sandbox.

 

People who KOS out of fear and self preservation sure.

 

People who gear up go looking for trouble die and complain about not being able to gear up quick enough are. They're not playing a survival game they're playing an FPS on a big map with disregard for the permadeath concept that us playing as a survival game take seriously.

[Bororm 1156]

There's plenty of info on why rocket left and what he's doing now.  He didn't vanish, he did start his own studio, he's working on a new game.  It's not a mystery, it takes 5 minutes to just go check his twitter or google it.

[klesh 2423]

2. He could see how dayz was turning out and knew it's biggest flaw - the people, can't be fixed, and there will always be KOS and stuff.

 

 

 

This was my take on it when he said:

 

 

"I feel like DayZ is a fundamentally flawed concept," he went on, "and I've always recognised [sic] that. It's not the perfect game; it's not the multiplayer experience, and it never can be, [with] the absolute spark that I want in it."

 

 

As though the feelings he was trying to recreate from his time in the jungle aren't going to happen because people can suspend their disbelief in a zombie apocalypse and turn this game into a shooter with a side of zombie.  Once those people don't take the game for its intended design, then the whole project is flawed.  The spark he talks about is the suspended disbelief.

 

 

 

KOS people are not evidence of a flaw, it is a natural evolution of this post apocalyptic sandbox.

 

 

People potentially or eventually fighting out of fear, being desperate, struggling to survive the harsh apocalypse was the idea.  People gearing up and asking "where is the action?" is what ruins it.

 

 

 

Edit: Ninja'd by BCB.  Exactly right.

 

 

 

People who KOS out of fear and self preservation sure.

 

People who gear up go looking for trouble die and complain about not being able to gear up quick enough are. They're not playing a survival game they're playing an FPS on a big map with disregard for the permadeath concept that us playing as a survival game take seriously.

Edited September 5, 2015 by klesh

[BCBasher 2465]

This was my take on it when he said:

 

 

 

As though the feelings he was trying to recreate from his time in the jungle aren't going to happen because people can suspend their disbelief in a zombie apocalypse and turn this game into a shooter with a side of zombie.  Once those people don't take the game for its intended design, then the whole project is flawed.  The spark he talks about is the suspended disbelief.

 

 

 

 

 

People potentially or eventually fighting out of fear, being desperate, struggling to survive the harsh apocalypse was the idea.  People gearing up and asking "where is the action?" is what ruins it.

 

 

 

Edit: Ninja's by BCB.  Exactly right.

 

I'm still trying to be optimistic that in the end it'll have the core features of good survival game and not get dumbed down too much to cater to the "majority". When all said and done I'll probably play on a LAN with my kids or by myself and mod it as I see fit to be the game I want it to be because fucking casuals always get what they want though.   

[monolith1985 109]

KOS people are not evidence of a flaw, it is a natural evolution of this post apocalyptic sandbox.

BCB and klesh already nailed it on what I was saying, and what rocket meant

KOS doesn't ruin the game, it makes it what it is, when done right, when people kill each other just for sport, and it's usually by being sniped or shot in the back, that's not interaction, that's death matching, I can play halo if I want that with no conversation with players. I'd rather not know if the guy in front of me is a douche or not, and find out through interaction

[Parazight 1599]

"It would not be beyond the realms of possibility that somewhere outside of our own universe lies another, different universe and, in that universe, Rocket is still in DayZ Project."

Edited September 5, 2015 by Parazight

[OldManRiver (DayZ) 42]

People who gear up go looking for trouble die and complain about not being able to gear up quick enough are. They're not playing a survival game they're playing an FPS on a big map with disregard for the permadeath concept that us playing as a survival game take seriously.

 

Unfortunately, I think those people thought they were getting into a post-apocalyptic combat simulator because it was originally an Arma mod.  They jumped in without really caring about what the game will become - as envisioned by Dean Hall and the current devs.

[S3V3N 1402]

By vanish I never meant he went into space. I was merely conveying it is odd he completely left this development and forum, where people care about him and his opinion. Of course I can google for the facts, but I was hoping for some more insight. My so called "slanted" view is curiosity mixed with incomprehension.

 

And yeah, we'll have to deal with how people play the game on the long run. I expect it will become different when zombies are back, but there will always be KOS and larger group taking advantage of small groups or solo players. Look at how war changed over the centuries. There used to be rules of conduct and even honor in fighting, while today there are just parties looking for the biggest cut and willing to break with all conventions. The war in Syria is a sad example of that. It's just odd this behaviour translates into video games as well. Maybe we shouldn't read too much into it...

Edited September 6, 2015 by S3V3N