Can we agree this is feesable?

[Baker. 1484]

People do this in games all the time, especially mmos where you're talking about not only a 60 dollar initial price tag but an extra subscription as well.

 

If base security became a thing of it being vastly beneficial to just have a character logged off in the base all the time rather than risk carrying around a key I think it would become pretty common.

 

It's not like you're going to be able to hide these camps.  Getting some one's key is gonna end up being a quick drive/fly around the map to check where it goes.

And this is your reasoning against having keys? It's really difficult to take your position seriously. Again if a guy wants to pay for two copies of the game and go through all the rigmarole that comes with that then that doesn't mean we shouldn't have keys to the shelters instead of immersion breaking passcodes

[gannon46 788]

People do this in games all the time, especially mmos where you're talking about not only a 60 dollar initial price tag but an extra subscription as well.

 

If base security became a thing of it being vastly beneficial to just have a character logged off in the base all the time rather than risk carrying around a key I think it would become pretty common.

 

It's not like you're going to be able to hide these camps.  Getting some one's key is gonna end up being a quick drive/fly around the map to check where it goes.

hicks said everything will be destructible there is not going to be some magical barrier keeping out players. So yeah go ahead and buy another copy for nothing because a key isn't going to mean shit when you can just go through a wall or door so i think most folks wouldn't waste the cash for that. now mules who cares if someone wants to buy another copy because they are weak and attached to there gear so be it is what i say.

[Bororm 1156]

And this is your reasoning against having keys? It's really difficult to take your position seriously. Again if a guy wants to pay for two copies of the game and go through all the rigmarole that comes with that then that doesn't mean we shouldn't have keys to the shelters instead of immersion breaking passcodes

 

I didn't say I was against having keys.  In fact I said I was in favor of it:

 

 

Keys would be good as long as you can make copies like you say.

 

Of course, there's always the issue of people just making extra accounts to always have some one to let them in.

 

 

I'm pointing out issues with the systems people are proposing.  Isn't that one of the points of discussion?

 

 

 

 

hicks said everything will be destructible there is not going to be some magical barrier keeping out players. So yeah go ahead and buy another copy for nothing because a key isn't going to mean shit when you can just go through a wall or door so i think most folks wouldn't waste the cash for that. now mules who cares if someone wants to buy another copy because they are weak and attached to there gear so be it is what i say.

 

We don't know how long it will take to break down walls.  If it takes a considerable amount of time, then using a key would be preferable obviously.

 

I'm just pointing out a scenario, one I've seen in other games with similar systems.  Is it a super big deal?  Not really.  Should it be considered when designing a system from scratch?  I think so.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Bororm

[Baker. 1484]

 

 

 

I'm pointing out issues with the systems people are proposing.

 

People buying extra copies of the game is not an issue with the system, By this logic the permadeath concept isn't real because a player can just buy an extra copy of the game and log in this extra character to store prized loot. It's nothing any sane individual would consider when addressing game design. And its nothing anyone but the most extreme player would do.  

[Xbow 362]

does that thing i made look like the dude had a square when he built it? lol

I'm not talking precision engineering stud but there is no sense in producing garbage that can be kicked apart in a minute or two. LOL 

 

Id be satisfied with the ability to dig a deep hole drop a war chest in it and stash my extra gear and chow there and a camouflage it.  

Edited August 20, 2015 by Xbow

[Bororm 1156]

People buying extra copies of the game is not an issue with the system, By this logic the permadeath concept isn't real because a player can just buy an extra copy of the game and log in this extra character to store prized loot. It's nothing any sane individual would consider when addressing game design. And its nothing anyone but the most extreme player would do.  

 

You are really underestimating how common it is in other games.

 

 

I think we just have different stances on game development.  IMO potential exploits should be considered when creating any mechanic.  No matter how seemingly inconsequential.  That doesn't seem insane to me.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Bororm

[Baker. 1484]

You are really underestimating how common it is in other games.

 

 

I think we just have different stances on game development.  IMO potential exploits should be considered when creating any mechanic.  No matter how seemingly inconsequential.  That doesn't seem insane to me.

I'm not underestimating the frequency It's just an insignificant variable, if this team allows multiboxing to influence design direction then they are looking at the little ball instead of the big ball.

 

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be inflammatory but its just ridiculous.  I can respect that this practice has somehow become the monster under your bed but it doesn't scare me.

Edited August 20, 2015 by B@ker

[q.S Sachiel 470]

You are really underestimating how common it is in other games.

 

 

I think we just have different stances on game development.  IMO potential exploits should be considered when creating any mechanic.  No matter how seemingly inconsequential.  That doesn't seem insane to me.

IMO this isn't an exploit, as it's a legitimate use of the product.

Also, i doubt it would really be all that much of a problem on a regular basis as the donkey would still need to get there before you (which isn't too difficult i suppose as they could just log out and chances are you didn't kill them near the hut, which they know the location of, not you).

But ultimately you fail to gain something you never had, the donkey user is still working within what i'd consider a fair use of the game they purchased, and BI wouldn't give a stuff because they get an extra sale...

 

I understand the concept just fail to see the problem.

[twr 43]

welllll... not so much...

the price is probably stopping things like this from happening, but look at CS:GO, it's less expensive than CS:S / 1.6 (which is ludicrous given it's popularity relative to the others') so anyone caught hacking etc has an easy in, especially given that it sometimes drops as low as $8USD.

 

But buying another account just to be a donkey, at this point in time, probably yes: a bit of a stretch.

Not that BI cares either way lol..

 

people already do that to loot hoard. i know a few guys that have 2+ accounts so that they can go pickup their tents and gear whenever a persistence wipe happens.. more people do it than you would think.

[twr 43]

I'm down for any kind of building and crafting aslong as it takes time relative to what your building or crafting. I don't want it to be like H1 folks using 2 nails and 2 boards building goddamn shit shacks all over the damn place and on roads just asshattery at the highest degree. no carrying a house in your pack parts should be realistic 2 you have to carry plywood and 2x4's not put them in your pants. If they do it right and keep it as authentic as possible than all will be well. If not they better turn up the spawn of explosives because i'm gonna need them.

 

agree 100%... they need to make entering bases realistic. arma 3 is ridiculous, 3 charges for cinder wall, 5 charges for steel door, 2-3 for floors.

 

1 charge would blow down a cinderwall, wood wouldnt even have a chance. Hell, water charges are used to "force" down steel doors.

 

1 charge should be enough for me to enter someones base. 1 charge on a drum of diesel, and their base shouldnt even be there.

 

after listening to hicks talk about bases at RTX i think hes going to make entering bases rather easy. he wants you to build bases out of the way, hidden, thats you're security... not the walls itself... and sure as hell not straight on NWAF

[lrp1984 199]

agree 100%... they need to make entering bases realistic. arma 3 is ridiculous, 3 charges for cinder wall, 5 charges for steel door, 2-3 for floors.

 

1 charge would blow down a cinderwall, wood wouldnt even have a chance. Hell, water charges are used to "force" down steel doors.

 

1 charge should be enough for me to enter someones base. 1 charge on a drum of diesel, and their base shouldnt even be there.

 

after listening to hicks talk about bases at RTX i think hes going to make entering bases rather easy. he wants you to build bases out of the way, hidden, thats you're security... not the walls itself... and sure as hell not straight on NWAF

 

If bases are easy to get into, then they'd need to be easy to build, otherwise the majority of people would never bother with the mechanic.  I think there needs to be a balance struck between realism of building it, and realism of breaking into it. There is no point expecting someone to spend dozens of hours getting the materials and building a base only for someone to spend 30 seconds blowing it up.

 

Explosives should be very rare in DayZ, it's an apocalypse simulation, not a military one. As much as I enjoy the PVP element of the game right now, I would be in favour of a reduction of automatic and military grade weapon spawns. They should be rare, very rare, and the ammo even harder to come by.  I hope private hive server admins will have the ability to tweak the spawn rates in the near future.

 

It would be good to see a potential for big bases that are run by large communities of players, not just hidden ones. Bases with an inner keep stronghold, and then farmlands and an outer wall (think medieval citadels). Within the middle area would be farming plots, animal pens, workshops and everything that would make the base (village?) completely self sufficient.

[twr 43]

If bases are easy to get into, then they'd need to be easy to build, otherwise the majority of people would never bother with the mechanic.  I think there needs to be a balance struck between realism of building it, and realism of breaking into it. There is no point expecting someone to spend dozens of hours getting the materials and building a base only for someone to spend 30 seconds blowing it up.

 

Explosives should be very rare in DayZ, it's an apocalypse simulation, not a military one. As much as I enjoy the PVP element of the game right now, I would be in favour of a reduction of automatic and military grade weapon spawns. They should be rare, very rare, and the ammo even harder to come by.  I hope private hive server admins will have the ability to tweak the spawn rates in the near future.

 

It would be good to see a potential for big bases that are run by large communities of players, not just hidden ones. Bases with an inner keep stronghold, and then farmlands and an outer wall (think medieval citadels). Within the middle area would be farming plots, animal pens, workshops and everything that would make the base (village?) completely self sufficient.

 

while i think they will be rather easy to enter.... finding those explosive charges wont be easy... id link them to about the chances of finding grenades...

 

i suppose it depends on what you consider hard to build... a base like the one he showed in the picture should take you at least 2-3 weeks of building/searching for supplies, if not longer...

 

i also liked the idea of your dead body containing a "key" to your base... unless you die right outside of it, the person would have to figure out which base it goes to...

 

i just don't want the charges to be super rare, and need 3-4 just to enter a base, unless they have 3 walls i need to enter.

 

heck, what about crafting explosives out of fertilizer? thats already in the game.... fert + container + gasoline/diesel + igniting system(radio/rag on fire/detcord and battery) could make small bombs (water bottles) or larger bombs (barrels anyone?)

Edited August 20, 2015 by twr

[Baker. 1484]

 

 

heck, what about crafting explosives out of fertilizer? thats already in the game.... fert + container + gasoline/diesel + igniting system(radio/rag on fire/detcord and battery) could make small bombs (water bottles) or larger bombs (barrels anyone?)

oh man I love this, you should have to learn how or something though

[Whyherro123 2283]

oh man I love this, you should have to learn how or something though

 

It would literally just be a Molotov cocktail, or a "barrel bomb". They .... aren't that difficult to make, there is no reason why you should have to "learn how" to make them.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrel_bomb

 

Take either one of those containers, fill them with a mixture of gasoline and oil, stick a fuel-soaked rag in the spout, and fling them at the enemy. Preferably, with this:

 

 

With that (or something like it), you can sit on the opposite side of a hell-crest (aka have 100% cover), and fling incendiaries at an enemy base. No base, nor the personnel inside, will survive being set on fire. Which is why you build on the highest hill, and maintain adequate "force projection" (aka regular patrols, have bunkers with overlapping fields of fire, etc)

[Baker. 1484]

It would literally just be a Molotov cocktail, or a "barrel bomb". They .... aren't that difficult to make, there is no reason why you should have to "learn how" to make them.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrel_bomb

 

Take either one of those containers, fill them with a mixture of gasoline and oil, stick a fuel-soaked rag in the spout, and fling them at the enemy. Preferably, with this:

 

 

With that (or something like it), you can sit on the opposite side of a hell-crest (aka have 100% cover), and fling incendiaries at an enemy base. No base, nor the personnel inside, will survive being set on fire. Which is why you build on the highest hill, and maintain adequate "force projection" (aka regular patrols, have bunkers with overlapping fields of fire, etc)

Molotovs yes, but your average joe would not know how to make an explosive from ammonium nitrate. 

[Whyherro123 2283]

Molotovs yes, but your average joe would not know how to make an explosive from ammonium nitrate. 

Why do you need ammonium nitrate?

 

Just fill that barrel with gas and oil. No need for "boom", just "fire"

 

Roll the barrel down a slope at the wall, let it crack open and catch fire. Problem solved.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Whyherro123

[Baker. 1484]

Why do you need ammonium nitrate?

 

Just fill that barrel with gas and oil. No need for "boom", just "fire"

We aren't talking about barrel bombs, we are talking about fertilizer derived explosives.

 

I suggested "a" saying we would require "b" to execute

 

You countered:

 

No you do not need "b" to execute "a" since I know how to do "c"

 

They are unrelated. A valid suggestion in its own right, but unrelated.

[Whyherro123 2283]

We aren't talking about barrel bombs, we are talking about fertilizer derived explosives.

 

I suggested "a" saying we would require "b" to execute

 

You countered:

 

No you do not need "b" to execute "a" since I know how to do "c"

 

They are unrelated. A valid suggestion in its own right, but unrelated.

 

Oh.....

 

...

 

You realize that it isn't "fertilizer" in-game, right? It is garden lime.

 

http://dayz.gamepedia.com/Garden_lime

 

I, personally, wouldn't waste time making explosives (unless it was black powder, for firearms and such). Too many components, and too many things that could go wrong. Just set the damn gate on fire. The inhabitants would have to open it in order to extinguish the flames. Shoot them and charge in.

 

Or, you know, just climb over the wall.

[Baker. 1484]

Oh.....

 

...

 

You realize that it isn't "fertilizer" in-game, right? It is garden lime.

 

http://dayz.gamepedia.com/Garden_lime

 

I, personally, wouldn't waste time making explosives (unless it was black powder, for firearms and such). Too many components, and too many things that could go wrong. Just set the damn gate on fire. The inhabitants would have to open it in order to extinguish the flames. Shoot them and charge in.

 

Or, you know, just climb over the wall.

Yes I know about the lime I was hoping we could use it cover dead body smells someday

[Quat 19]

So, just to recap, in this thread we've gone from cutting corrugated iron with a hacksaw (the 'dangerous nightmare') to creating ampho bombs and molotovs.

Ok? Ok. Just making sure I was keeping up.

[Baker. 1484]

So, just to recap, in this thread we've gone from cutting corrugated iron with a hacksaw (the 'dangerous nightmare') to creating ampho bombs and molotovs.

Ok? Ok. Just making sure I was keeping up.

Its a "what do we think is feesable" thread now. Which suits the title o.O

[Bororm 1156]

I'm not underestimating the frequency It's just an insignificant variable, if this team allows multiboxing to influence design direction then they are looking at the little ball instead of the big ball.

 

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be inflammatory but its just ridiculous.  I can respect that this practice has somehow become the monster under your bed but it doesn't scare me.

 

Not a monster under my bed, just saying it's something to consider.  Little snowballs turn into big ones you know.  You are the one who dragged it on as long as it has.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Bororm

[lrp1984 199]

Or, you know, just climb over the wall.

 

If you climb the wall you will have a drop on the other side, and since a drop of 2 feet or more is a broken leg or death in DayZ, climbing wouldn't be a good idea!

[OrLoK 16185]

Hello there

 

Lets put the multi account/muling to bed for this thread.

 

It has been an issue in other mmo's and will most likely be an issue in future games.

 

I Dont see it having a vast effect in a game like DAYZ but im sure there's folk who'll work out ways to uber exploit it.

 

Point being, it deserves it's own thread if it's to be discussed in detail, which is out of the scope of this thread although it is a valid point.

 

lets move on.

 

Rgds

 

LoK

[Whyherro123 2283]

If you climb the wall you will have a drop on the other side, and since a drop of 2 feet or more is a broken leg or death in DayZ, climbing wouldn't be a good idea!

Not really. Take a look at the 2015 RTX slides, around 37:50 in. That isn't a 2 foot drop, considering there are ramparts there on purpose.