Base Building vs Advanced Barricading

[Weyland Yutani (DayZ) 1159]

I wanted to post this a week or so ago but wanted to wait on RTX before I jumped the gun. As I suspected, base building has a very obvious look to it.

 

The problem I have with base building is this...

 

Its hard enough to hide a tent away anywhere on the map with how tree placement was designed. When in a forest, its like a single tree, then another single tree. Very few tree-clustered areas to hide anything. There are 2-3 area's where there are some tree clusters to hide a potential base it. So what happens is someone runs through the forest and see's your tent from 1000+ meters away...for the most part anyway. Also, building near debug will get you found as well as building anywhere near heli crash sites so they area's left over are very minimal where nobody really travels.

 

Now that we see the devs vision of bases, I mean...its going to stick out for miles and miles. Why build a base like that if its only going to get ravaged on sight? All that time crafting, collecting, etc only to have it easily found and ransacked.

 

They really should have fought tooth and nail for the underground bases like they wanted to do. New engine should have allowed for this as when Hall said underground bases were off the menu was during Rezzed 2014 when a new engine wasn't in sight.

 

This is why advanced base building is the much better option.

 

Find a house and barricade that shit. Someone could run right by the house and never enter. Or, they see a house in the distance and are like, hey thats an in-game house...nothing to see here. Also, never putting all your eggs in one basket is another reason why advanced barricading will be the better option. Who wants to lose everything in one wack? Get a few houses with varying degree's of loot on different sides of the map to prevent loss of assets. 

 

[blackberrygoo 1416]

While advanced barricading will clearly be the option for lone wolf like players like myself, making a fortified base would be the go to option for clans and big groups trying to "rebuild society" , or just trying to look fearsome with a whole bunch of sniper towers and large wood walls ... But if there was one dayz mod that brings an excellent example of how hard it should be to break into a base it was Dayz Aftermath .. To break through a level one wall it took about 15 minutes and a sledgehammer + toolkit , and sometimes your sledge could snap , making it an even harder endeavor and the only other thing that could take out walls was grenades and they were as rare in that game as in standalone .. I know the DEVS will make it very hard to break into bases (as in takes at least fifteen minutes to break a simple wall) because they most likely have seen other games (ark especially) who's whole game is ruined because base raiding is far too easy ... I think a good balance will be struck between cost and time to make a base versus how fast it is to tear one down .

[Weyland Yutani (DayZ) 1159]

making a fortified base would be the go to option for clans and big groups trying to "rebuild society"

In that case, wouldn't a more sensible plan be to take over a town?

[xalienax 621]

In that case, wouldn't a more sensible plan be to take over a town?

Not particularly. There comes a lot of strategic advantages of being able to place the base *Where* you want and lay out your interior *how* you want.

 

- You can pick a location that suits your groups playstyle/tactics with it's terrain.

- You can Have single 'mega base' or a large 'city wall' surrounding a number buildings inside. With extra work and planning you can make a base that is a night mare to get to the 'good stuff'.

- You can create an interior that's claustrophobic and confusing to outsiders. You see alot of this in games like ARK and RUST where clan/tribe wars are common place. creating a 'honey comb' design on multiple levels means that once you breach the outer wall you must then breach thru one room after another and it can all become very disorienting to someone not familiar with the layout. (and this is before you add in constant harassment from the defenders popping out of doors and running in behind you.)

[blackberrygoo 1416]

In that case, wouldn't a more sensible plan be to take over a town?

If you wanted that much of a work load , yes . But I'm thinking of the small 8-10 groups that are clans in dayz , they won't want to take over an entire town per se , but rather make a large outpost at the center or outskirts of a town so they can easily go and raid the town but also have a decent sized base to take care of (not the size of a city though as that would be to much to look after ). It's all personal preference really , I've always wanted to base build but I know for me I will definitely be boarding up windows and taking over houses I already adore lol ... I can't wait for boarding of windows though that was my first wish in this game ..

[Shiva_O 10]

What happens when you log out? Your base goes with you?

[Weyland Yutani (DayZ) 1159]

If you wanted that much of a work load , yes . But I'm thinking of the small 8-10 groups that are clans in dayz , they won't want to take over an entire town per se , but rather make a large outpost at the center or outskirts of a town so they can easily go and raid the town but also have a decent sized base to take care of (not the size of a city though as that would be to much to look after ). It's all personal preference really , I've always wanted to base build but I know for me I will definitely be boarding up windows and taking over houses I already adore lol ... I can't wait for boarding of windows though that was my first wish in this game ..

There are small shanty towns that can accommodate small groups. Berezhki, Stary Yar, Msta, that unnamed town north of Turovo, etc.

[odin_lowe 3686]

What happens when you log out? Your base goes with you?

Just like the mod, or other similar games, the base will stay on the server you created it on.

 

Edit: Typo

Edited August 9, 2015 by Odin Lowe

[odin_lowe 3686]

In all honesty, I'm really hoping we never get huge base building. I hate that with a passion, and think it's silly.

 

Fingers crossed some servers will stay "vanilla", or we get access to a single player version before that....    :(

Edited August 9, 2015 by Odin Lowe

[S3V3N 1402]

In all honesty, I'm really hoping we never get huge base building. I hate that with a passion, and think it's silly as hell. (Yep, hell is a pretty stupid concept.)

 

Fingers crossed some servers will stay "vanilla", or we get access to a single player version before that....    :(

I think basebuilding is in every survival game these days - and nowhere is it done very well. However, the devs probably feel pressured to come up with something comparable. I really hate grinding to collect materials and build bases. That's so oldschool, but not in a good way. It feels like I'm a slave to the game, doing things I don't even want to; purely mechanical. I'd rather see something new in Dayz. I forgot which mod it was (Wastelands?), but basically there you would pick up bunkers, sandbags, watchtowers - anything really and could rebuild them at your own base. The bad thing about that was that you would just find unconnected pieces of wall in the middle of a road - not realistic.

 

Then how about some buildings that have dynamic elements, which can be removed and used to create something new from it? You could modify existing structures (less work, but - no choice of layout or expansion), or tear apart some of the buildings that have dynamic parts and build something new from them, somewhere else. Perhaps some combinations with the looted structures would also be possible. For example, combining a door you took with a piece of sheet metal from a shed gives you a reinforced door. You should also need tools to break up the structures and remove/combine parts, giving new meaning to the crowbar, sledge hammer and other tools. 

Edited August 9, 2015 by S3V3N

[Yokai (DayZ) 12]

I'm a 100% with Kush on this, there is a VERY fine line the devs have to walk between destrubablity and resources required. I believe the building system from the aftermath mod was the best balanced building system I've seen in a surival game yet, i mean i would like to build large free form bases but the man hours and material required should reflect that. My group Built rather large bases (several infact), but these took quite litteraly HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of man hours worth of gathering and building to do. (we worked with a team of roughly 10-30 people at any given time)

[Grimey Rick 3417]

It should just be barricading. Base building is really stupid. Unless they somehow manage to limit the size of the buildings to structures that would actually make sense given the setting, and they add in structural physics.

If your clan wants to control an area and build a large base, it would be much more plausible to find a small abandoned town and fortify it rather than building an ugly ass, structurally impossible maze of randomly placed structures a la H1Z1 and Rust.

Isn't this game supposed to maintain some semblance of authenticity?

Do you really think that in an apocalyptic situation, survivors would build from the ground up? Maybe eventually when society was reinstated for the majority, but definitely not initially. Look at the Governor's town in TWD. They surrounded it with cars, tires, anything that would repel intruders.

Anyway, whatever, if DayZ turns into Rust I'm tapping out.

[Yokai (DayZ) 12]

It should just be barricading. Base building is really stupid. Unless they somehow manage to limit the size of the buildings to structures that would actually make sense given the setting, and they add in structural physics.

If your clan wants to control an area and build a large base, it would be much more plausible to find a small abandoned town and fortify it rather than building an ugly ass, structurally impossible maze of randomly placed structures a la H1Z1 and Rust.

Isn't this game supposed to maintain some semblance of authenticity?

Do you really think that in an apocalyptic situation, survivors would build from the ground up? Maybe eventually when society was reinstated for the majority, but definitely not initially. Look at the Governor's town in TWD. They surrounded it with cars, tires, anything that would repel intruders.

Anyway, whatever, if DayZ turns into Rust I'm tapping out.

 

I agree that multi-story structures ala rust or epoch are dumb as hell, escpeically non-physics based structures looked terrible. If epoch style building where to come about im probs out too. again this is why i favored aftermath style building; in the end all it really allowed people to build was wooden palisade-style walls and gates (some locking some not), no roofs of flooring to assure nonsense like epoch style building couldnt happen. but in my opinion thats all we need, just give me the ability to build a simple wooden palisade wall with some kind of gate, thats all i would really need to be happy, of course this causes problems with aeiral transport (as there was non in aftermath we didnt really have to worry about it) and securing your base from people simply landing in your base and takin your shit.

[DemonGroover 8836]

Ive always liked the idea of barricading rather than rebuilding.....would you really have time to build a base when you can maybe erect a fence and barricade a house etc?

I for one wont be buidling any bases but I sure as hell look forward to ransacking one.

[Dagwood 680]

One problem I foresee with barricading pre-existing structures is the barricading of highly desired buildings like barracks and police stations. This was one thing that had to be addressed in aftermath. People would build gates 5-10 deep around important loot zones that were nearly impregnable and denied loot to anyone other than the members of the fortifying-clan. They eventually made certain areas off-limits for barricading, but you know, immersion and all.

But I must agree, aftermath's barricading system was very well put together. The materials needed for deconstructing someone's precious base/barricade made finding the thing about 10% of the battle. When you need 100 sledgehammers to take down multiple gates it gives these clans a fair advantage based upon their time invested in construction. I hope the devs can find a similar balance.

[klesh 2423]

I agree that multi-story structures ala rust or epoch are dumb as hell

 

 

That's gonna be some of the first shit people mod in.

[ZomboWTF 527]

putting realism and sense aside, base building is majorly a balance problem:

 

if you can barricade houses at your will, so that players need much time to break in as if it was a real "base",

players will of course start barricading all the firestsions, guardhouses, the prison, and basically every other high loot spot and lock them for themself

 

this is a major flaw of barricading houses over a longer time, and influences the loot system to much

knowing this community, spawnpoints will have their high value loot buildings locked up first (cherno/elektro/berezino police statiions, fire stations, super markets)

 

of course, you could say "these buildings just shouldn't produce loot anymore", which helps with people hoarding the high value loot, but for players on private servers,

there still is no way to get high value loot in these location then

 

basically, using advanced barricading instead of real base building makes more issues than it's worth

 

also, regarding multi-story-houses: i am sure there is a way to limit the amount of floors a house has, also some limitations regarding physics (has to have something beneath it everywhere, no floating), so there wont be the giant wooden towers of epoch as we know them

Edited August 10, 2015 by Zombo

[S3V3N 1402]

I just wanted to add this link to a similar thread:

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/227758-base-building-concerns/page-2

 

I'm surprised so many people are in favor of barricading over building these anti-gravity bases we know from other games. I think most of the problems adressed, like people closing down the loot spawns can be solved in multiple ways; I talked about that in prior posts, too. Also, if you have freeform building, people could still decide to wall up these lootspawns. If you have a controlled system for barricading, it could actually be more balanced than allowing people to build walls everywhere they want. 

 

What I described above, namely recycling parts from existing structures and using them to build and upgrade your fortress, would have some advantages. One is that all the tools could actually have a purpose. The second is that you could start small (use a shed as a first base) and slowly expand into building bigger bases with more space for equipment and tools available. The one thing I still think is important is that when you place a player made structure near an item loot spawn, the spawning of loot in that area is disabled or supressed. In other words, nothing would respawn there (or only very slowly); until the structures are removed and the server is restarted. 

 

On a side note - I'd like tree houses or bases hanging from cliffsides, too. I think there should be two sorts of bases: camps and fortified bases. As I wrote in my prior posts, I believe tent bases should give you little to no advantage besides storing stuff, while a house base would allow all sort of upgrading over time, in order to build a workbench or other tools that make life easier. 

Edited August 10, 2015 by S3V3N

[ZomboWTF 527]

I just wanted to add this link to a similar thread:

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/227758-base-building-concerns/page-2

 

I'm surprised so many people are in favor of barricading over building these anti-gravity bases we know from other games. I think most of the problems adressed, like people closing down the loot spawns can be solved in multiple ways; I talked about that in prior posts, too. Also, if you have freeform building, people could still decide to wall up these lootspawns. If you have a controlled system for barricading, it could actually be more balanced than allowing people to build walls everywhere they want. 

 

What I described above, namely recycling parts from existing structures and using them to build and upgrade your fortress, would have some advantages. One is that all the tools could actually have a purpose. The second is that you could start small (use a shed as a first base) and slowly expand into building bigger bases with more space for equipment and tools available. The one thing I still think is important is that when you place a player made structure near an item loot spawn, the spawning of loot in that area is disabled or supressed. In other words, nothing would respawn there (or only very slowly); until the structures are removed and the server is restarted. 

 

On a side note - I'd like tree houses or bases hanging from cliffsides, too. I think there should be two sorts of bases: camps and fortified bases. As I wrote in my prior posts, I believe tent bases should give you little to no advantage besides storing stuff, while a house base would allow all sort of upgrading over time, in order to build a workbench or other tools that make life easier. 

 

i guess the devs will go for a way easier approach: allow base building only where there is enough free room, like tents but even more free room needed

 

that way you could not block the entrances to loot spawns in any way, which is a no-go imo,

loot is a very very delicate matter in DayZ since it's one of the core mechanics that make this game great

Edited August 10, 2015 by Zombo

[Grimey Rick 3417]

putting realism and sense aside, base building is majorly a balance problem:

if you can barricade houses at your will, so that players need much time to break in as if it was a real "base",

players will of course start barricading all the firestsions, guardhouses, the prison, and basically every other high loot spot and lock them for themself

this is a major flaw of barricading houses over a longer time, and influences the loot system to much

knowing this community, spawnpoints will have their high value loot buildings locked up first (cherno/elektro/berezino police statiions, fire stations, super markets)

of course, you could say "these buildings just shouldn't produce loot anymore", which helps with people hoarding the high value loot, but for players on private servers,

there still is no way to get high value loot in these location then

basically, using advanced barricading instead of real base building makes more issues than it's worth

also, regarding multi-story-houses: i am sure there is a way to limit the amount of floors a house has, also some limitations regarding physics (has to have something beneath it everywhere, no floating), so there wont be the giant wooden towers of epoch as we know them

That's neither a big deal nor a hard fix. Barricading should be extremely costly to a player. You should have to scavenge for hours before being able to barricade a building.

Gaining access to a building should be roughly half as difficult as barricading it. That way, people wouldn't barricade a police/fire station, as it'd be much more likely to be ransacked, resulting in a lot of their time wasted.

Players should only focus on barricading areas that see less traffic, like a lone house in relative isolation. Larger groups could control more buildings, as there would be more man hours available to them to fortify an area.

Free-built bases look ridiculous, and I don't think that DayZ has the necessary tools to support structural physics, e.g. taking out a load-bearing wall results in the building collapsing.

[ZomboWTF 527]

That's neither a big deal nor a hard fix. Barricading should be extremely costly to a player. You should have to scavenge for hours before being able to barricade a building.

Gaining access to a building should be roughly half as difficult as barricading it. That way, people wouldn't barricade a police/fire station, as it'd be much more likely to be ransacked, resulting in a lot of their time wasted.

Players should only focus on barricading areas that see less traffic, like a lone house in relative isolation. Larger groups could control more buildings, as there would be more man hours available to them to fortify an area.

Free-built bases look ridiculous, and I don't think that DayZ has the necessary tools to support structural physics, e.g. taking out a load-bearing wall results in the building collapsing.

 

why would you even bother barricading something when people can just break in while you are offline and all houses on the map have known locations?

 

there should be something you need before you can break in somewhere, like a rare sledgehammer or explosives, or else nobody will bother with making a base or barricade if anyone coming across it needs just half an hour to break in...

 

either you create bases that are nigh-indestructable and need a huge effort to break into, or people just wont bother because they'd have to check on their base every hour or similar or get raided again and again once someone knows the server and location

[Grimey Rick 3417]

why would you even bother barricading something when people can just break in while you are offline and all houses on the map have known locations?

there should be something you need before you can break in somewhere, like a rare sledgehammer or explosives, or else nobody will bother with making a base or barricade if anyone coming across it needs just half an hour to break in...

either you create bases that are nigh-indestructable and need a huge effort to break into, or people just wont bother because they'd have to check on their base every hour or similar or get raided again and again once someone knows the server and location

Exactly, seems pretty authentic to me. Not much I can't disassemble with a normal hammer. Traps would be a great addition to ensure your base wasn't fiddled with in your absence.

Indestructible, aesthetically displeasing bases... yeah. No thanks.

[ZomboWTF 527]

Exactly, seems pretty authentic to me. Not much I can't disassemble with a normal hammer. Traps would be a great addition to ensure your base wasn't fiddled with in your absence.

Indestructible, aesthetically displeasing bases... yeah. No thanks.

 

authenticity... one reason why i'd like basebuilding to be created with a modification only, there is really no 100% pleasing solution to the matter, either bases become to strong, or people won't bother with them, at least not as a way to store gear or a car

 

the only thing i could imagine to work would be temporary bases you can build up in an hour to half an hour in (for example) a partion of an apartment building, to keep people outside and force them to make noise to get into your sniping spot (kind of like lockpicked doors but with nailed boards in front, so they have to smash through)

 

besides, i guess i'd be happy enough being able to just place or bury a backpack somewhere in the woods and have my own stash of maybe 2-3 weapons plus ammo if i die and need a quick re-equip

i can play way more relaxed if i know i don't need to start from zero again, can't wait for persistence

[jimgun 64]

the only thing i could imagine to work would be temporary bases you can build up in an hour to half an hour in (for example) a partion of an apartment building, to keep people outside and force them to make noise to get into your sniping spot (kind of like lockpicked doors but with nailed boards in front, so they have to smash through)

 

 

This is what I too was expecting.

 

So much empty real estate - would you really go to the trouble of chopping trees and creating poles for walls and for building towers, and would you really bother creating the bags with compartments to fill with bricks to make a wall - not having any experience in building I doubt I would. Even with some engineering experience - would you?

 

However, realistically I could grab an axe, make a few planks, board up a couple of windows and secure a couple of doors on an existing but unused property...maybe even make a rudimentary fence and some traps with enough kvass.

 

Interested to see how it will work anyhow.

[ZomboWTF 527]

This is what I too was expecting.

 

So much empty real estate - would you really go to the trouble of chopping trees and creating poles for walls and for building towers, and would you really bother creating the bags with compartments to fill with bricks to make a wall - not having any experience in building I doubt I would. Even with some engineering experience - would you?

 

However, realistically I could grab an axe, make a few planks, board up a couple of windows and secure a couple of doors on an existing but unused property...maybe even make a rudimentary fence and some traps with enough kvass.

 

Interested to see how it will work anyhow.

 

adding zombies to the calculation would be interesting as well

 

maybe make zombies attracted to player built bases as well?

zombies breaking down doors that aren't barricaded?

who knows, though i'd really hate if there would be skyscraper bases all around like in epoch...