Servers going dark.

[emuthreat 2837]

It has only been a couple times that this has ever happened, but I cannot get to my stash server anymore.  I know servers will go offline from time to time, and sometimes they never come back.  One stash server took over a week to come back, then later disappeared for good.

 

What's different about this time, is that I had just raided a tent and stolen a truck (very) late last night.  I was even nice enough to leave a signed note with a link to some screenshots I took of the process.  Hell, it took me long enough to find the pen, that they even got a nice care package in the rest of the bag I used to protect the note.  Today, the stolen goods are inaccessible, along with every other piece of gear I had stahsed for a couple weeks.  Maybe I'm just suspicious, but this seems like more than coincidence that the server goes dark just hours after my modest find. Is the moral of the story to never hunt tents on your home server, for fear of enraging the admin?

 

Before people go crazy with their rule #1, or "beacuse alpha" responses, let's just consider that persistence was a design decision, and that tents were implemented with the purpose of storing gear long-term.  The inability of persistent world servers to remain accessible to players is a pretty gamebreaking experience when it happens.  The game takes place on these servers, where players time is invested into stockpiling gear for survival, or combat missions; and basebuilding will only raise the stakes.

 

I beleive that this server uptime issue is separate enough from the development process, that it could be reasonably addressed at any time.  I understand that hardware and software issues will cause unexpected failures.  I also understand that my tent and all the gear in bags is little more than data that could be backed-up and installed on a new piece of hardware and assigned the old title and IP address so I can keep my game progress.

 

There is still the gray area of playing on rented public servers, where non-payment will cause the server to drop off the lists.  Why can't they just leave the server and all the data there, but revoke the admin privelages of the previous "owner?" 

 

 

TLDR:  Server with my stashes on it went offline.  Losing hours of public hive progress randomly is not good recreation/entertainment (the purpose of the game).  I believe a fix is in order, considering the forced persistence, basebuilding, vehicle repairs, and other long-term aspects of character progress.

[DickCheney 74]

This isn't a case of maintenance or whatever, its a case of the server host not paying the bill and the server access being suspended until they do, if they ever do. A lot of servers went dark after the new loot system was implemented and most of them never came back, my favorites list was scrollable before the update, now it fills up about 2/5 of the page. The majority of the player base didn't enjoy the direction in which the devs were taking the game and they lost interest, they stopped playing, the servers they played on stopped filling up, the server owners no longer saw a need to keep an empty server when servers for this game are outrageously expensive, the server owners either ran out of money, will, or donations for the server and it shut down. The devs tried to backpeddle and throw in the old loot system to appease the players but it doesn't seem to have worked, I used to have about 15 friends that played DayZ regularly, in the week after the updated that number dropped to 2, hell I've even stopped playing it, I haven't been on in a week.

 

As far as your question "Why can't they just leave the server and all the data there, but revoke the admin privelages of the previous "owner?"", its not that simple, the DayZ team does run some official servers, they generally start with a state abbreviation and a number, these servers should always be up so long as the weekly maintenance isn't underway but few people play on them as there are no admins to stop hackers or dupers. Servers take up space, its a physical object, like a computer devoted to hosting games, these servers aren't limitless and they cost money to run and power. The cost for DayZ servers is unusually expensive but I think that has more to do with the fact that like 3 companies have a monopoly on it, the DayZ team will only allow those few companies to host their servers and those companies charge about $80 a month for the cheapest server.

[pilgrim* 3514]

Admins can turn the server off when they like. I guess this means they can just have their server on when they play themselves, if that suites them.

Public or Private, don't make no difference far as I can see from the rules.

 

But a more interesting thing for admins is to change the server name (description) - any text change means that server won't show up in your list of servers anymore, because it will be somewhere else in the list "under a different name" OK ? This seems common. There's no restriction to how often you change the name. Doing that will dump any players who haven't noted the IP, - with a name change and not remembering the IP they won't find their way back.

 

The only way to be sure you log in to the same server is using the IP.. but few players do that, and there's no way to list by IP, and no way to put your own tags on servers.

So note the IP, then you can have fun chasing servers around if you're inclined, and seeing how many hours they stay up.

 

xx

[Mookie (original) 799]

OP's point is a good one, and well made. I've had almost exactly the same experiences recently. Last Wednesday, while there was no game-wide persistence wipe, a lot of servers (eg Vilayer?) were wiped, including two that had stashes of mine.

 

Similarly, a lot of servers either just lock up (stuck at a particular time of day, often 09.20) or fail to connect at all.

 

While everyone focuses on the game mechanics, sorting bugs, content, etc, this dynamic of how the servers operate and the incentives within that seems to me a little unconsidered - especially around persistence.

[sneakydudes 278]

OP's point is a good one, and well made. I've had almost exactly the same experiences recently. Last Wednesday, while there was no game-wide persistence wipe, a lot of servers (eg Vilayer?) were wiped, including two that had stashes of mine.

 

Similarly, a lot of servers either just lock up (stuck at a particular time of day, often 09.20) or fail to connect at all.

 

While everyone focuses on the game mechanics, sorting bugs, content, etc, this dynamic of how the servers operate and the incentives within that seems to me a little unconsidered - especially around persistence.

Its just villagers poor services. Every time I go with them, something is completely broken. Such a poor service provider :( First it was dayz, then it was arma 3 servers. Wipes, crashes, hangups oh boy.

 

Don't get paranoid OP, its not always admins doing anything. Sometimes its the damn DNS not syncing with the master hive or its random weirdness with most of vilayers services. I swear, hosting dayz was a complete waist of money, and horrible work on admins end. For the money spent, we got took.

 

Dayz was much to blame on some things hosting poorly in alpha, but I am sure one day it will get better.

For the enjoyment factor? none other then hanging out with your friends.

 

This doesn't excuse the poor admins and players renting services to PVP - rage loot so they can pvp on random(s) all over different servers. That is grievers and should be dealt with, by removing public services and go with private ownership. Its abuse like this that makes companies lose potential revenue or lose its client base.

[JPWiser 251]

Don't like a server coming offline and losing your camp? Pay for your own or play at your own risk bud, if you're not in control you have to expect it's going to happen at some point.

Assuming the server owner had his campsite ransacked and rage quit his server offline only to never play dayz again is quite a stretch.

[Mookie (original) 799]

Pay for your own or play at your own risk bud

 

 

Sigh.

[emuthreat 2837]

Don't like a server coming offline and losing your camp? Pay for your own or play at your own risk bud, if you're not in control you have to expect it's going to happen at some point.

Assuming the server owner had his campsite ransacked and rage quit his server offline only to never play dayz again is quite a stretch.

I was hoping for a solution that didn't cost $500 per year.  If I wanted to play a subscription game, I would have done so already.  I boycotted WOW, because greedy.

 

And my assumption was pretty tenative, I just really missed out on the satisfaction of them finding my note and trying to track me down over it.

 

I guess I'll just have to go back to keeping my camp and trucks on Official servers with no population.  I think I'll go back to using REDACTED again, if anyone else wants to try and populate it, that would help make it a less boring place to "live." 

 

I do hope that publicly rented servers would just stay up for a little while in the future, myabe have a mandatory 72 hour warning period to get your stuff off a server that is slated to go dark; I'd even sign up for text alerts if it was offered.  Having persistence and basebuilding as the cornerstone of a game, while not ensuring that player progress can be reasonably kept makes for an overall unsatisfying experience.  Think Sysiphus.  Not my idea of fun.

Edited May 14, 2015 by emuthreat

[emuthreat 2837]

Its just villagers poor services. Every time I go with them, something is completely broken. Such a poor service provider :( First it was dayz, then it was arma 3 servers. Wipes, crashes, hangups oh boy.

 

Don't get paranoid OP, its not always admins doing anything. Sometimes its the damn DNS not syncing with the master hive or its random weirdness with most of vilayers services. I swear, hosting dayz was a complete waist of money, and horrible work on admins end. For the money spent, we got took.

 

Dayz was much to blame on some things hosting poorly in alpha, but I am sure one day it will get better.

For the enjoyment factor? none other then hanging out with your friends.

 

This doesn't excuse the poor admins and players renting services to PVP - rage loot so they can pvp on random(s) all over different servers. That is grievers and should be dealt with, by removing public services and go with private ownership. Its abuse like this that makes companies lose potential revenue or lose its client base.

It was a Vilayer server, I got the IP too. offline since 21 hours ago.

[Death By Crowbar 1213]

The only tent I've ever set up yielded me right in emuthreat's situation - a week later the server disappeared for good. The time I sunk into finding a good spot and stocking up the tent I realized is something I'm not going to waste until a solution is found. I agree this is a real issue, enough of an issue that I personally avoid that feature (tents + persistence) and all of the game play around it. I don't know what the answer is either, but it's a big enough issue I'm not going to risk wasting time on it.

[ebrim 998]

This is just going to happen sometimes. Keep what you need: what is critical for you and to survive on your person. Anything put in a camp is by definition at more risk when you're not around. That you put it on a low-pop server is a bizarre abstraction that is more gamey than a legitimate way to approach the game in the spirit of things. You can do it, fair enough, but what happened to you is simply part of the risk of stashes - which needn't just be other players finding them.

[8bit_Survivor 93]

This is simply a flaw with having player rented servers an option. These things are going to happen. I still don't understand why this server structure was chosen for a game like DayZ. Works well for FPS games that aren't persistent loot based like CoD/BF etc., but not a game like DayZ(MMO).

Play on Official servers to avoid this...if you like low pops.

If you have a server favorite even if it's name changes it should remain on your list.

Edited May 5, 2015 by 8bit_Survivor

[vfxtodd 124]

If one of the reasons a server goes down is because the renter didn't pay their bill, then it would make sense to have a notice appear when someone is joining a server that says, "server rent unpaid, one week left before server goes down for nonpayment." Or something along those lines. If that's a hassle setup-wise, I wouldn't know.

Just an idea.

[emuthreat 2837]

This is just going to happen sometimes. Keep what you need: what is critical for you and to survive on your person. Anything put in a camp is by definition at more risk when you're not around. That you put it on a low-pop server is a bizarre abstraction that is more gamey than a legitimate way to approach the game in the spirit of things. You can do it, fair enough, but what happened to you is simply part of the risk of stashes - which needn't just be other players finding them.

The point is that it should not happen, given the design parameters of the game.  I'm used to packing up my best gear and holding it over on Wednesday maintenance.  I only started playing on .53, so I learned to play the game by stashing survival supplies and guns until I had the right ammo, mags, and guns at the same time.

The server administration and leasing protocols work in a way that results in random destruction of players' efforts.  The only solution at the time is to play on official servers, which don't usually have many regular players.  I feel glad when I see even a dozen people on a public official server; but my only interactions have been on rented, higher population servers.  That's why I'm publishing my new official stash server--to populate it.  has been stable since February that I know of.

 

Play on Official servers to avoid this...if you like low pops.

That is the problem with the public hive, concerning persistence at the moment.

 

If one of the reasons a server goes down is because the renter didn't pay their bill, then it would make sense to have a notice appear when someone is joining a server that says, "server rent unpaid, one week left before server goes down for nonpayment." Or something along those lines. If that's a hassle setup-wise, I wouldn't know.

Just an idea.

This is a good idea, and the solution completely administrative, and separate from the coding and core development process.  It would help with advanced bug reporting concerning persistence and "decay" topics; given that a tester was competent in their hiding skills.  So far, I've only had bag and gun trees confirmed viable after twelve days, due to wipes and sometimes server blackouts.

[8bit_Survivor 93]

The server my mil tent is on is going dark! The owners were nice enough to change the server name alerting players of this and was able to get the weapons I needed out of it!

Edited May 6, 2015 by 8bit_Survivor

[sneakydudes 278]

Alpha should have been hosted by BI, so they could have paid for testing. After alpha then start introducing server hosting, to get all the bugs out. Right now, without subscribers to private hives or public your pretty much paying for the whole shot yourself. The changes also may prove to be too much to some and felt the hosting is a waist of money.

[Jex 1104]

Oooooh changes were made that made a lot of people quit - I'm guessing the game is more like a survival game now then? Can anyone give me a quick list of major things added (not gear, mechanics) over the last 3 months please?

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Oooooh changes were made that made a lot of people quit - I'm guessing the game is more like a survival game now then? Can anyone give me a quick list of major things added (not gear, mechanics) over the last 3 months please?

Sorry, can't but it appears that one little patch caused a lot of temper tantrums

[Mookie (original) 799]

Sorry, can't but it appears that one little patch caused a lot of temper tantrums

 

We're talking about server dynamics and discussing potential improvements, not complaining about 0.55.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

We're talking about server dynamics and discussing potencan't.improvements, not complaining about 0.55.

And Jexter asked if anyone could give him a quick list of major changes and I replied with, sorry can't and told him the last patch caused a lot of temper tantrums.  If you learned how to read I wasn't complaining.

[emuthreat 2837]

We're talking about server dynamics and discussing potential improvements, not complaining about 0.55.

Thank you.

[Bororm 1156]

Oooooh changes were made that made a lot of people quit - I'm guessing the game is more like a survival game now then? Can anyone give me a quick list of major things added (not gear, mechanics) over the last 3 months please?

 

Essentially they forced persistence on, which had to happen sooner or later, but coupled it with their new loot economy system at the same time.  Leading to a situation of increased instability and strange loot tables (no assigned loot locations except guns, so for instance, grenades in outhouses etc) which a lot of people find unappealing for obvious reasons.

 

Next patch is supposed to be this week or next, and hopefully fix at least part of those problems.

 

This thread in particular is about issues related to persistence in regards to servers dropping off, in all likelihood due to lack of server pop honestly (I know my home server suffered the same fate) and how the server architecture isn't very conducive to long term play.  An issue I've seen with other games sharing the same sort of set up, such as Life is Feudal or even Rust.

 

To bring this back around, I agree with what's been said.  I originally hoped to only play official servers with DayZ SA to avoid that sort of problem.  Hacking issues make that not an option at this point unfortunately.  I suggest finding a strong private hive community that will last.  I would also really not bother with persistence in any serious degree till they hammer out all the issues.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Bororm

[Pingstar 8]

If you have a server favorite even if it's name changes it should remain on your list.

I believe this is what happens now.  Our clan server has changed the server name several times and it has always remained on my favorite list.  If this is not the case for everyone it is surely a bug.

[Eto Tekai 0]

So why exactly didn't people like having loot in the out houses?

 

Think about it,   Your dieing of the zed infection,  so you've got all your best items and weapons on your person.   You are in the outhouse cause your dieing and probably sick.   So when you die and become a zed, you leave all your best stuff in the outhouse.

 

makes perfect sense to me.

[Jex 1104]

Thanks Guys :)

 

From further reading, I see that the game got harder and is now been reverted but it's super easy mode now. It's still alpha so it's not an issue right now. Going back on topic, who decided the prices for servers - does anyone know?