Is PvP & Atmosphere Dying in DayZ SA?

[ebrim 998]

As far as people moving further inland or anywhere but Elektro, one thing discussed in recent status reports is that they are still working on the loot distribution system. Specifically, a system where they can control what sort of gear spawns where more than just in "x type of building". Focusing certain types of gear in certain areas of the map, as seems intended for the future, will do a lot to get people moving around more.

[dirtfueler 0]

Hey Gaz. Why not play 1PP servers with some of the guys from chat that you know won't stream snipe? some of Jon & Chris's top subs/donators could fill up a decent server and you get the 1PP action that you want and probably up north as well. Like everyone else is saying I get why you are doing 3PP but stream sniping is always going to be an issue so if you can try to cut that out with trusted people and promote 1PP on the stream I think it will help. I think some of the other streamers who were in Survivor Games actually realized that 1PP is better and started doing more streams because of that (TehJamJar for sure). You had a great idea with the TS being open to bringing a friend so I think if you also open up game play with people it will really help bring out the positives of the game and bring together the community you wanted to create with you started. I'd like to hear your feedback on that.

[Parazight 1594]

I don't understand the 1pp vs 3pp debate.  It is what it is.  Everyone shares the good and the bad.  No one has an inherent advantage.  It's apples and oranges to me.  There is no contest, just an additional option.

 

I don't understand the notion that pvp is dying.   It's a sandbox with other people and ways to kill other people.  The game will always be about pvp.   No mmo in the history gaming has ever provided challenging single player pve content.  Ever.  I challenge anyone to find challenging, single player content in a game where people can group up.  Once you learn how to not die from diseases, it will be simple and easy.

 

Pvp is about to get much more interesting with mandatory persistence and land mines/bear traps just around the corner.  I'm super stoked for both.

 

For real, this game is all about pvp and the pve elements are there to simply enhance your experience.  

 

"Anti-game"   lol wut?  This is a game.  It's not hard and never will be.  Please go explain to someone that's actually seen a warzone and real combat that DayZ is an antigame because it's  survival is hard.

[twr 43]

One of the problems I see through out games is players comparing them to earlier counter parts and hoping they will be the same... wake up, this is a totally new game.

You also have to realize that this is an alpha... the dev team released it to build funding to create the game because they didn't have the financial backing to create it behind closed doors.

I'm new to dayz, 600+ hours. I can honestly say that even though the zombies suck(they've been improved in exp), and I die to scripters and glitches more than players, this game has alot of promise.. I think it's already head and shoulders above arma3 which is a COMPLETED game.. the makers of COD spend 3 years developing a new game even when they use the same engine and just port things over... yet alot of you expect huge changes to occur within a year? Let's be realistic...

This game is a long way from being done but is by far the best 35$ iv ever spent on anything, regardless of the current issues it has. Stay positive, be mature, and push on. This game will not be 100% what you want it to be, the best you can hope for is 50%.. anything more than that is gravy.

[jubeidok 495]

You also have to realize that this is an alpha... 

 

 

This highlights another problem with early access development and that's using the the statement as a scapegoat. Yes, alpha is a good excuse for things like bugs and incomplete systems or things that have yet to be implemented, but it is not an excuse for why we haven't had to change the way we play for over a year. About the only thing that has changed is where we find automatic weapons. 

[solodude23 649]

You don't see how the environment we play in is an essential part of the post-apocalyptic atmosphere? I don't even know what to say to that... :/

 

 

Edit: Anyway, this is Break's thread. I suspect my sardonic style probably won't be very helpful, so I'm going to stop there.

I don't recall saying that. You picked a few items that you don't seem to like and used them to represent the vision of the DEVs and I found that a bit silly. Do I think the environment plays an important role in atmosphere of game? Absolutely, and broomsticks and dresses don't detract from that. It's not like said items would simply vanish come an apocalypse.

[CJFlint 357]

I read through this thread and can see there a few people feeling the same way I do about the state of DayZ....Not all for the same reasons though.

 

As far as the 1pp/3pp debate. If we want more options for 1pp, people are going to have to step up and host more 1pp servers. There just isn't that many 1pp servers right now, and its not the devs fault on that one. Also 3pp has the whole "peeking" issue, this is the main complaint about 3pp that comes up every time like a broken record. This needs to be fixed. Its an clear expliot. I think there should be a dynamic camera in 3pp, were when you get close to a wall, it zooms in so you cant look over it or around it. I know there are many players that are so used to having the peeking that it is just considered part of the game. But it is an expliot.  

 

I really feel the game is out of balance in regard to loot count. This game fancys it self a survival game, but its not so much. You can get geared up and have more food then you will need in probably one or two sessions. Now this all varys on one kind of kit your going for, some take longer,  example a ghillie suit or what evers. Theres not real incentive to hunt, fish, collect apples, build fires, make leather suits ect......becuase it takes time, and when theres towns and bases filled to the gills with loot most players do not bother with it. This is huge and effects every thing. Players dont even value there avatars, it dosnt matter to them if they get shot, they can just simply respawn and spend a couple hours gearing up then die again. This is what causes the wreckless pvp COD we see in game. It become sort of this lets log in joke around then go die, and hopefully kill a couple of people 1st. Like kill ratios even matter lol. Completly aimless.......Its dumb. So I think if you turn down the loot and make people have to work even harder to get geared up and make them relly on the survival mehanics more, I promiss you people would be allot less wreckless with pvp. Players will value there avatars more and not want to die, this will make pvp more intense, there be much more on the line. It will also feel much more like a survival  game. We discussed this on a another thread as well. I want to see it get to the point were your not pvping just for a quick thrill, your pvping becuase you have to survive.

 

Im right now the way things are now, I feel the game has become a bit stale to me. I have got to the point were feel its simply not worth spending a ton of time playing like I have been. Its just not. I think .54 stable kind of left a bitter taste in my mouth. I sometimes think abou playing but the its like.........yeah maybe I do something else, I dont feel like lisening to the COD crap and dont really feel like running around for hours. I got other shit to to do lol After a year of playing I have got to that point. I did everything there is to do. So now really its just watching what comes up in future patches, and then deciding then is it worth playing? I have faith they will pull it together in the long haul. Im sure the devs are probably well aware of what were all talking about, its just going to take time to get around to it. So maybe patience is in order. I mean there nothing wrong with taking a break...you own it. You can just come back to it later, all your steam freinds will still be there. Its going to get better its just going to take a while.

 

I also will add that this is part of the problem with the new steam trend of early access games. There charging a discount price for a incomplete game. At 1st it was like 1 or 2 games. It was kind of cool. But now its like half of everything on stream is early access. I have been playing FSX for years. Yes yes I am a flight sim nerd. They recently released a steam version. Some of the comunity is really not that warmed up to the idea, and quite frankly some dont want anything to do with steam. And to my suprise many are just adding on to classic FSX that has been out since 2006 and claim it works just as good! It was hard but I decided to just stay with the classic too for now, and guess what with a few upgrades and add ons it now works great. One of the main reasons this happens....the new early access model for everything. People are starting to wake up to it and are deciding flat out just not to have anything to do with steam. So this whole issue we see with dayz, is a bit more wide spread then just dayz, theres many other games that have the same sort issue. Its called cheaping down development costs. What happens is we have to go through all the growing pains of development if we want to play and if you dont pay close attention to the dev log, it can lead to some really frustrating gaming. Well people are getting sick of it. I say wait til they finish the game lol

Edited March 30, 2015 by CJFlint

[wgnwedge 0]

I purchased Dayz on Nov 6, 2014, all because of streamers like Gaz, John, and Sacriel. This is the most adreneline pumping game I've ever played and I'm 47. I cannot judge the game based upon the mod, I wish I would have known about Dayz sooner to be honest. Since purchasing the game, in my opinion, it's not progressed much. Anti-cheat seems to be working well, but why introduce the broomstick, the ice pick, dresses? Yes, I know..... it's alpha, but these items are usless in the game. Why spend countless hours developing the art & antimations with these things instead of bringing in the SVD or the UMP-45? It is getting very tiresome looking for players on full 50 player servers. I will not gear up for hours and go to electro to die to 4 bambi's chasing me with broomsticks and ice picks. Random spawns would greatly improve player interaction. Respawning zombies are also annoying, the art of stealth is gone if you kill one. Seems like the prison is also taking away from the game too. I've still never been, but the guys I play with go in, come out fully geared.... not bad for 15 mins of time in the game... ridiculious. Our group consists of 4 to 7 players, on every night. We've only found a couple of servers where the action is somewhere besides the coast.

[IgnobleBasterd 161]

I purchased Dayz on Nov 6, 2014, all because of streamers like Gaz, John, and Sacriel. This is the most adreneline pumping game I've ever played and I'm 47. I cannot judge the game based upon the mod, I wish I would have known about Dayz sooner to be honest. Since purchasing the game, in my opinion, it's not progressed much. Anti-cheat seems to be working well, but why introduce the broomstick, the ice pick, dresses? Yes, I know..... it's alpha, but these items are usless in the game. Why spend countless hours developing the art & antimations with these things instead of bringing in the SVD or the UMP-45? It is getting very tiresome looking for players on full 50 player servers. I will not gear up for hours and go to electro to die to 4 bambi's chasing me with broomsticks and ice picks. Random spawns would greatly improve player interaction. Respawning zombies are also annoying, the art of stealth is gone if you kill one. Seems like the prison is also taking away from the game too. I've still never been, but the guys I play with go in, come out fully geared.... not bad for 15 mins of time in the game... ridiculious. Our group consists of 4 to 7 players, on every night. We've only found a couple of servers where the action is somewhere besides the coast.

I'm guessing the prison is as it is because they want people to go there to test it out. If there weren't any loot, or hard to find loot, there would be no reason to go there and they wouldn't get to test it for glitches.

[wgnwedge 0]

I'm guessing the prison is as it is because they want people to go there to test it out. If there weren't any loot, or hard to find loot, there would be no reason to go there and they wouldn't get to test it for glitches.

Yep I get that, I understand it's still in Alpha. Hopefully they'll spread out the loot table soon.

[CJFlint 357]

I have faith at the end of all this like over a year from now, the stand alone will have all the features many of us want. It is going to take along time. But they do have a plan of what there going to do. The real question is how much growing pains do you feel like putting up with between now and then? Is it better just to wait, or just keep playing through it?

 

Not to harp on thing early access steam thing to much. But firmly believe early access games do not work so well for the mainstream masses, yet steam is pushing tons of games out like they are. I can see it working for more of a nitch crowd or die hard gamer group. Most people and your average players do not have a clue about the video game development process, I really dont expect them too.  They get into games like dayz head 1st, and it causes them ton a frustration. Not only is the game hard, but its half done and there bugs and every thing else. We see it all the time on the forums here. Theres like a 100+ page "I give up" thread with endless QQ. For the longest time I was in "the you should know its alpha" camp did not feel any pitty. Now I am not so sure, dayz never was a ment to be mainstream game (dean hall said it him self), it was a nitch game for the longest. But now it is a mainstream game for better or worse. Now days  there more casual gamers that happen to run across dayz and dont really know what "early access" means, or even would want to learn. They come into the world of dayz and causes a mountain of frustration. I think overtime early access is going to get more and more of a bad rap. When I kind of left the whole dayz scene for a while and took a look at some game I haven't played in a while. Visit other comunitys. There is starting to be a backlash toward early access and steam in general. People are getting fed up. This backlash is toward a lot of steam games including H1Z1 too.  So early access really is a double edged sword, def more risky then say a full release. The reason for this was the sucess of mind craft, and dayz too. So now everyone wants to take on the early access way and steam is just pushing em out. I dont think it such a good idea, maybe Im wrong.

Edited March 30, 2015 by CJFlint

[Schweinsteiger 107]

I know there are several causes for these issues. Some are by design, others are down to bugs that will inevitably be fixed at some point. Like I said, this isn't a I hate DayZ post, I’m just really passionate about it that's all, & from someone who played the Mod from May 2012 I think I have some right to be a little pissed. (Not at the bugs...with the game direction). 

 

Lets face it, 1pp is pretty much dead. No one wants to play it...everyone would prefer the advantage of looking around pine trees and over walls, though they’ll say its because they want to see their character. (Its not).

 

I get that your post isn't a hate thread as I felt the same way a few months ago and I'm sure the more I play, that feeling will come back (because of rinse and repeat problems). I'm hoping the developers are going to add some dynamic events and really put some thought and depth behind them (not just find a map, read it and then pick up some free loot like H1Z1's worn letters, at least they are trying though). There has to be more to do then just loot up and look for people to kill. They are working on hordes of infected and increasing the overall number of infected, that will go a long way in making this a better game but it definitely isn't enough to keep the game interesting over a long period of time. Base building (or partial building as the devs talked about) will be cool too, along with more vehicles and other things but it still isn't enough to keep most of us happy. Hopefully we'll see some really creative solutions and in the end DayZ will be a great game.

 

As for your comments on third person, I find your assumption a bit offensive. I like 3rd person a lot, specifically because I can see my character. Who are you to say my reason for loving 3rd person is because I can see around corners? Don't get me wrong, that is a nice benefit of 3rd person but the devs are actually working on eliminating that problem as we speak. It was in the developer notes and updates section. How in the hell are supposed to enjoy the animations in 1st person?

 

Personally I use both, 3rd person most of the time and 1st person when I need to pick up a bunch of loot or I'm in a combat situation. And it really isn't such a big advantage when everyone has the same capability (looking around corners and such). Let's face it, 1st person doesn't do  great job at modeling the way we see in real life anyhow. There isn't much periphrial vision and when you look to the left and to the right you can hardly see beyond your own shoulders. In real life, when you turn your head you can almost see directly behind you anyway. We can talk about realism but there is always going to be a disconnect in a video game so arguing about 3rd and 1st person, there really isn't a big difference.

 

Think about how long it takes to eat some canned food. The game doesn't really model that accurately at all and I'm glad. Some things should be priorities concerning realism and other things should be left as is (taking a shit would be funny but beyond that it really shouldn't be something we would have to do more then once or twice every few days). Shoes wear out, that's cool, yet one of the infected can take out a leather jacket and ruin it in one hit. Not very realistic.

 

At least the devs do a good job (for the most part) when it comes to weapon damage models. In H1Z1 most of the weapons are a joke. It takes a whole magazine to kill someone with a 1911 and the hunting rifle is a joke. In DayZ most of the weapons are pretty awesome, both in the way they look and feel and sound and in the damage they do. I like the idea that a well placed shot from a Mosin or a Shot gun will kill another player. I don't want to have to shoot them 500 times to take them out. H1Z1 is a bit too arcady, though it isn't a bad game DayZ, in the end, blows it away.

 

Take it easy man.

[IgnobleBasterd 161]

Am I the only one who doesn't really understand the concept of "seeing my own character"?

[BCBasher 2465]

Am I the only one who doesn't really understand the concept of "seeing my own character"?

 

I remember playing Doom when it first came out and thinking how cool it was that you couldn't see your character. It was like looking through their eyes and so much more immersing.

[crazykage 1063]

I agree with the OP. You can argue "alpha, growing pains, development cycle" till the end of the earth, it doesn't change the fact that many design choices, and many of those present from the beginning, and the seeming chosen direction the devs have been going, is drastically deviating from what drew me into this game and the mod from the beginning.

You know what I love about playing Arma 3 with my friends (one of which is heavily into scripting and coding, building scenarios for our little group) the most? The fact that combat is realistically portrayed. The sounds, the tactics, the weapons, the way the AI in the game (which is drastically enhanced by mods that we use) is ruthless in its use of diversions, smoke grenades, flanking maneuvers, suppressive fire, etc.

We have a "game mode" we call "Insurgency". Using the all in arma mod, we are able to play zargabad in arma 3. My friend (the scripter) creates a spawn zone in the main city of zargabad, and spawns enemies to fight. We all then choose one of several locations outside the city to spawn at, where we can find a variety of weapons to choose from in crates nearby. Then we kit up, and move into the city, attempting to infiltrate. Sometimes we have an actual objective. Other times our only objective is to just defeat the spawned army and survive for as long as possible, before dying and respawning again. Sometimes the enemy army is something easy: a bunch of poorly equipped terrorists (and we the us/un/etc special forces sent in to deal with them). Other times its a different scenario, and the army is the Russians, and we get our asses handed to us over and over by their ruthless efficiency. Its always fun.

One of my favorite things about this is picking a weapon, and actively needing to constantly adjust the elevation depending on my engagement range. I tend to be very good at judging distances, even in game (thanks to my military training). I will find an enemy, quickly gage the distance, zero my weapon, support it, then adjust my aim for the elevations I cant account for in the games settings (say, enemy is 230 meters out, I zero weapon for 250, then aim lower to compensate) and take my shot and feel the satisfaction when I drop my target....then run like a coward for cover as all of his AI friends begin to converge on me, maneuvering and flanking as I am met with a hail of gunfire...lol. And it is ALWAYS immensely satisfying to launch an HEDP 40MM at a target 450 meters away and watch it detonate at his feet....and those of his entire squad. And its always a surprise when some of them survive to return fire.

But in Dayz, I cant do this. I have tried. OH GOD I have tried. Rested, prone, any weapon, and almost any range, I just cant get any consistency. Can I hit my target? yes. Can I do it CONSISTENTLY? NO. Literally every aspect of the shooting mechanics in this game, in my opinion, have been designed to level the playing field between players. And the manner of its design feels, to me, intentional. Its been this way for a long time and I doubt that it is just a place holder or that it will be "fixed". It feels to me like this is intended to be the status quo.

Other things really bother me; the constant focus on adding in new, purely cosmetic items, like different colored ascots, or brooms, or a plethora of new, still useless pistols and automatic weapons and whatever. It feels like its meant to draw in the crowd.

And in the mean time, CORE game concepts, which SHOULD have been considered from the beginning, like map+compass functionality (like in arma), or functional, fluid melee mechanics, or, yes, shooting mechanics that don't mirror the "no child left behind act" (which was a bill that basically lowered the bar for education, rather than raising those who were falling behind up to it) Are STILL missing entirely from the game. I mean, c'mon. These are game developers. You want to tell me the couldn't design shooting mechanics that were simple to figure out, yet challenging to implement, INSTEAD of just adding in absurd randomization factors so that everyone could play on the same level? The whole thing is starting to feel like its become a giant wall that the developers just throw stuff at to see what sticks.

But do I feel cheated? No. I bought the game knowing full well it was an unfinished product. And to be more than fair, I put in a lot of hours. Most of them I enjoyed. I got my moneys worth. I am just concerned that if it keeps going down the road its on, it wont be one I keep coming back to.

EDIT: I came back to make one final point: If I had to sum up my major complaints with the game in its current state (the core of the game, not the stage of development) its that it seems to be more focused on being a game, and less on the simulation aspects that made the mod (and currently make arma 3) so much fun. I really think that's it; it needs (IMO) to have more sim aspects, and less catering to the crowd.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Crazykage (FOG)

[sneakydudes 278]

The reaction from a few of us Z guys, we like the arma 3 mod much better. You can actually build bases, and drive vechile's etc.. I have high hopes for dayz, but by the sounds of it the guys might want the server shut down until we get something more finished done.

 

its been server hopers, loot the hot spots and go pvp elsewhere, its been about looting the test items since we got here in 2014 and its rather boring for many of us.

 

Dayz has some really good features don't knock it, but I think the devs need to play more epoch mods because things are actually working in it.

[blacklabel79 949]

 

Dayz has some really good features don't knock it, but I think the devs need to play more epoch mods because things are actually working in it.

 

god please..dont mention dayzfunfare aka EPOCH...

[sneakydudes 278]

god please..dont mention dayzfunfare aka EPOCH...

why because stuff actually works in it? after seeing the clunky dayz I am just becide myself going HUH???

 

I know it will get there.... in time its ALPHA!

 

everyone has high hopes for it, and would like to see it finished to be really good.

[Jonah_Hobbes 171]

THIS!!!! 3PP NEEDS TO BE REMOVED!

 

Look there is a sizable amount of people that CAN'T PLAY 1PP DUE TO MOTION SICKNESS!

 

Why should we be punished for something thing we have no control over? I played 1pp three or four times and each time eventually I've been so incapacitated by nausea it's basically runied my whole day, it can take that long to get over it.

 

Not all of us bugger about in dresses hitting each other with brooms. I too hate the fact that even on a full server nobody goes past Berezino. or Zelenogorsk.

 

Change the spawn points, tweek the loot spawns. keep the 1pp only servers for those that can hack it.

[Whyherro123 2283]

Look there is a sizable amount of people that CAN'T PLAY 1PP DUE TO MOTION SICKNESS!

 

Why should we be punished for something thing we have no control over? I played 1pp three or four times and each time eventually I've been so incapacitated by nausea it's basically runied my whole day, it can take that long to get over it.

 

Not all of us bugger about in dresses hitting each other with brooms. I too hate the fact that even on a full server nobody goes past Berezino. or Zelenogorsk.

 

Change the spawn points, tweek the loot spawns. keep the 1pp only servers for those that can hack it.

Pretty much this. Turn down all the headbob, all the things that make the characters head shake about like a windsock, and I still get "carsick" whenever I play 1PP and move around. I don't get carsick or seasick in real life, nor does this happen with any other 1PP game.

 

Not including the fact that in 1PP, it feels like you are playing with "blinders" on. In real life, I can get 180 degrees of vision just by moving my eyes, not my head (peripheral vision, but still vision). In Day Z, you are stuck constantly staring forwards. It feels like you are an owl, or a camera.

 

Finally, there is the fact that most buildings are incredibly out of scale with the characters, to the point where if I play in 1PP, I constantly think I am going to sprint into a wall, or get stuck on a doorframe. It makes clearing a building (I actually use 1PP in combat all the time) very disconcerting. Part of this is due to the speed and lack of "fluidity" our characters have when moving, I think. You zoom around, turning at crazy speeds, and my brain just can't keep up. When this gets fixed (the speed and turning issue), I expect the "disconcerting" aspect of buildings to be lessened, but they still need to fix the actual scale of the buildings.

 

I play 3PP, with the camera pulled in as far as it can go. Makes it very hard to "peek", and I can play without feeling like I am running into a wall or something.

[CJFlint 357]

The root cause of my somewhat dissolutioned feelings toward dayz started during the time of .54 release. It had some pretty serous issues right out of the gate. Almost right after release there was a chain of posts on here and even on twitter, that this patch had some major problems. People lost there attachments, there were game crashs, and there was people losing items out of there inventory. Yeah yeah its alpha. Here what got me. It seemed that the devs had chances to get it fixed quicker but didn't. It was a week before there was anykind of hot fix. Also I had freinds that stated that these issues were in exp. So why not fix them there then release the stable patch. I get there is going to be problems, and I get this is alpha, but that was something that prob could have been avoided.

 

Also Dean Hall, released a statment of his thoughts of selling DayZ, one of the moderators even shared here. What I got out of it was both positive and negative. One of the things the that really got me was I dont think Dean ever in his wildest dreams ever expected dayz to be that sucessful. It seemed he was almost having a presonal battle of even how to handle all the sucess. He didn't seem ready for it. It seemed kind of wishy washy yet vary honest. There were hints that he had some bitter feelings about the whole thing. As a early adopter gamer, you have to understand hearing that from the preson that created a game you put allot of time into kind of brings up second thoughts about the concept. I cant help it.

 

But even with that said, he was honest and truthful about his feelings about this game. And I have to say no other game I have ever played before have the developers been so open about what they are doing. There really is something to be said for that. So maybe were just theres just a bumpy patch and patience is needed. I have read allot of hicks plans of what he intends on doing what he has done. They have a plan they stuck to it so far and it sounds like regardless they will keep sticking to it. So maybe we just need to weather the storm or sit it out and just wait.

Edited March 31, 2015 by CJFlint

[Hicks_206 (DayZ) 4297]

*facepalm*

[Tatanko 5591]

*facepalm*

There is no other rational response to complaints about PvP dying than this right here.

[St. Jimmy 1631]

If people are shooting fresh spawns even in experimental, the PvP is far from dead. 3PP doesn't kill PvP at all, it just changes it. The game couldn't be more PvP than it's now. Atmosphere and difficulty are far from what's planned and PvP atmosphere will naturally change with those.

[GhostSlayer (DayZ) 13]

i noticed the game going downhill back near 0.48 patch

EDIT; also is it just me or has the games atmosphere and surroundings looked worse then they where when the game first come out like the graphics now look mushy and ugly even on high graphics

Edited April 1, 2015 by GhostSlayer