Server hopping? Is there a solution? If not, what else....

[rickyriot 1009]

On the list of things that need to be addressed, server hopping is some way down it. After all we have timeouts which in some way does address it a little and perhaps if persistence and loot spawning are tweaked to work consistently then maybe that will even it out somewhat.

 

However, I had picked up a Mosin and a LRS. Not really my game play but as it just happened to be the weapon available to me I decided to give it a shot (no pun intended). I had been wandering about the map and an exchange of fire had pushed me up towards Vybor. Now I don't tend to visit military bases for several reasons, but as I had a LRS I thought I'd take some time to do some observation.

 

Placing myself on the roof of the warehouse building to the East of Vybor (040,064), grabbed a cup of coffee, rolled myself a cigarette and switched into full on lurk mode, and Oh, my... my, oh my, oh my....

 

The number of players that just materialised out of the house at 035,069, the barn at 037,070 and on the Veresnik hillside (044,072) was considerably more than I had expected. I counted over 20 in a matter of about half an hour. Obviously some might have come up out of my eyeline but those who know the position I am talking about will know that it offers pretty good coverage. You might say these are just people joining and going on their way to other parts of the map, but these 20 I am talking about started from one location, would move towards the military base, loot (or not as it was clear the place was cleaned out by then), then go back to where they had joined the server.

 

I should point out I am not complaining about these guys, just pointing out it's quite rife, and wondering how, or even if, we can counter act it.

 

 

[BeaverProductions 441]

and wondering how, or even if, we can counter act it.

Take that Mosin and snipe the heads off all of them :)

[dayy 173]

Private Hives seems to me the only full-proof way. 

I personally play on a private hive server, and honestly it's quite fun. Especially getting to know the community through the servers forums.

[rickyriot 1009]

Take that Mosin and snipe the heads off all of them :)

 

Not really my game style. Not only did I enjoy just watching the line of players appear, loot, then disappear, if I was to start sniping I would naturally start to develop a manjina.

 

Private Hives seems to me the only full-proof way. 

I personally play on a private hive server, and honestly it's quite fun. Especially getting to know the community through the servers forums.

 

Perhaps. It does restrict the number of servers you can play on though.

[B4GEL 175]

I don't understand the point of the public hive. What does it add to the game except server hopping and ghosting?

In my opinion the whole idea should be scrapped, characters should not be transferable across servers.

[gearjammer 97]

I only see one advantage to the public hive in that if your favorite server is down you can play on another. I don't feel it's worth the trade off though. Aside from eliminating server hopping and ghosting, the private hives turn into a community of players, and it becomes more fun to play with or against the same players.

[rickyriot 1009]

I only see one advantage to the public hive in that if your favorite server is down you can play on another. I don't feel it's worth the trade off though. Aside from eliminating server hopping and ghosting, the private hives turn into a community of players, and it becomes more fun to play with or against the same players.

 

I think the problem with private hives (just now) is that there isn't anything to do in the game. Survival is easy, and there is no base building so private hives just now become a little too fluffy.

 

When things ramp up then perhaps I'll shift over, although finding a decent uk 1pp persistent private hive might cut down the options somewhat. When push comes to shove I might need to start my own, but certainly not while the game is at the stage it is.

[Dagwood 680]

What if you could only join severs for a limited amount of time after restart before they became locked? This would hopefully give public servers a private hive feel. I think the biggest change with this implementation would be the death of ghosting and rampant server hopping (except for unlocked servers, which would be a death trap around military bases after restart).

If this was coupled with centrally controlled day/night cycles it would help provide the dynamic experience that so many of us desire. So let's say the server restarts and it is 4:00PM in game time. If the server restarts every 8 hours (I wish) the server would restart at midnight. Players would only be able to join the server between 4:00PM and 5:00PM in game time. After that one hour period, the server would become locked and you would only be able to join the server if you left it within the last hour and joined no other server.

Copy and paste from other thread

[TheFarm 158]

When .52 was in experimental loot spawning was "broken". Any item could spawn anywhere, you could find an ak in a kitchen for example. Imo this is the best counter to server hopping. Make those barracks worthless and only reward those that check everywhere.

[stinkenheim 249]

Problem with an idea like that is you punish people who can't log on at that time because of whatever reason.

You'd need several servers that all lock at different times throughout the day to ensure everyone is able to play, that just leads to too many servers to filter through and then not enough open severs for the players to use.

Like the idea of centralised time too but I only get to play from about 9 pm and so I'd never see Cherno in the day time, that's a shame for me because it's a lovely environment.

[byrgesen 1341]

I don't understand the point of the public hive. What does it add to the game except server hopping and ghosting?

In my opinion the whole idea should be scrapped, characters should not be transferable across servers.

 

What about being able to play with anyone in the world, on any given server, at any given time?? Not to mention meeting new people, in every single game session, making encounters even more random and unpredictable??

Thats a pretty big plus, right there.

 

Dont get me wrong, i love a good private server, it was the only place i spend my time in the mod, but that was because of the cheaters, not ghosting/server hopping.

But taking away the option, to play with anyone, on any server, at any given time, because you dont want to be ghosted or dont want to see people server hop, is not fair for the rest of the player base.

I can promise you theres at least as many people loving public servers, as there are hating on them.

 

This discussion is exactly the same as 1pp vs. 3pp, its a matter of preference and play style.

Im having trouble coming up with good suggestions to limit ghosting/server hopping, because it would punish the player base to much imho.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Byrgesen

[Dagwood 680]

Problem with an idea like that is you punish people who can't log on at that time because of whatever reason.

You'd need several servers that all lock at different times throughout the day to ensure everyone is able to play, that just leads to too many servers to filter through and then not enough open severs for the players to use.

Like the idea of centralised time too but I only get to play from about 9 pm and so I'd never see Cherno in the day time, that's a shame for me because it's a lovely environment.

I agree, servers would need to have staggered restart times. And the in game time of day on those servers would also need to be staggered. But if there are limited servers to choose from, the population will be more concentrated, counteracting the tendency of players to gear up on multiple empty servers before l

[B4GEL 175]

What about being able to play with anyone in the world, on any given server, at any given time?? Not to mention meeting new people, in every single game session, making encounters even more random and unpredictable??

Thats a pretty big plus, right there.

 

But you could still have a character on every single server and could switch between them as you liked, there wouldn't even need to be a server switching timer.

You would have to gear up a new character on every new server you join but why are you playing this game if you don't like gearing up?

[Dagwood 680]

Problem with an idea like that is you punish people who can't log on at that time because of whatever reason.

You'd need several servers that all lock at different times throughout the day to ensure everyone is able to play, that just leads to too many servers to filter through and then not enough open severs for the players to use.

Like the idea of centralised time too but I only get to play from about 9 pm and so I'd never see Cherno in the day time, that's a shame for me because it's a lovely environment.

I agree, servers would need to have staggered restart times. And the in game time of day on those servers would also need to be staggered. But if there are limited servers to choose from, the population will be more concentrated, counteracting the tendency of players to gear up on multiple empty servers before logging into a full server for player interaction.

[rickyriot 1009]

One thing about public servers is that I like the utilitarianism of them. They are there for all the people free to use. Having all servers as private, and generally that means whitelisting, reduces the uptake in the game. After all who wants to buy a game where you can only play it if a 3rd party lets you. With that in mind, I also like the idea of public servers being lawless places full of absolute basket cases comprising of both bambis and bandits where lifespans are measured in the minutes rather than the hours. Private hives would be what you'd move up to once you were sure you wanted to get a bit more serious.

[odin_lowe 3686]

Since the private hives came, I steered off of the public hive and haven't come back yet. I'm glad I did since that way, server hoppers are a thing of the past. Got 7 different characters on different servers, so I never run out of options to play. To each his own though, I know what you mean about the utility of the public hive.

[byrgesen 1341]

But you could still have a character on every single server and could switch between them as you liked, there wouldn't even need to be a server switching timer.

You would have to gear up a new character on every new server you join but why are you playing this game if you don't like gearing up?

 

Did i ever say that??? oO I actually enjoy gearing up, most in this game.

 

Yes you could have a fresh spawn on every single private server, aka 100.000 different chars.

To me, this is not ideal, when i want to play with my buddies from across the atlantic, once a week, on different servers, with one single char.

 

The fact remains, that the public HIVE is here because it provides easy accessibility to your character, ensures you have the same char across all servers and can play with anyone you want, when you want, regardless of server, nationality, timezone and char status.

Giving up freedom for "false security" is the worst reason to give up freedom, ever.

 

Not to mention the constant closing and opening of private servers, which means you're character is about as safe as the wallet is fat, of the server owner.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Byrgesen

[Evil Minion 943]

The perfect solution to server hopping is to add a reasonable cost to server switches. This would make single servers like islands you can travel between. "Reasonable" means that the cost should be high enough to make travel on a server more attractive for ingame reasons (looting, finding action etc.) while still allowing to play on other servers for offgame reasons (meeting friends, server too full/empty etc.).

Private servers are nothing else but an extreme form with infinite cost for switching that has the downside t of impossible character transfers and a smaller economy. There is no need to be this radical - if the cost for switching is high enough server hopping for loot will cease to be viable in which case all the negative consequences cease to exist.

Why have the public hive instead of private servers again?

• Having only one character allows for better progress and adds more value to the characters life making the game both more immersive and character death more impactful..
• You have the option to switch servers for offgame reasons like playing with friends, the server being full/down or too empty.
• It allows for a greater loot economy with increased item rarity that does not exclude this items existence (it's out there somewhere).
• A bigger world with more actors may allow for more diverse interactions especially with base building and players having their "home servers".

In fact a harsh switching system like "only one server per day" would still retain all of the advantages above while also making server hopping and ghosting pretty unbearable.

[Deathlove 2286]

The perfect solution to server hopping is to add a reasonable cost to server switches. This would make single servers like islands you can travel between. "Reasonable" means that the cost should be high enough to make travel on a server more attractive for ingame reasons (looting, finding action etc.) while still allowing to play on other servers for offgame reasons (meeting friends, server too full/empty etc.).

Private servers are nothing else but an extreme form with infinite cost for switching that has the downside t of impossible character transfers and a smaller economy. There is no need to be this radical - if the cost for switching is high enough server hopping for loot will cease to be viable in which case all the negative consequences cease to exist.

Why have the public hive instead of private servers again?

• Having only one character allows for better progress and adds more value to the characters life making the game both more immersive and character death more impactful..
• You have the option to switch servers for offgame reasons like playing with friends, the server being full/down or too empty.
• It allows for a greater loot economy with increased item rarity that does not exclude this items existence (it's out there somewhere).
• A bigger world with more actors may allow for more diverse interactions especially with base building and players having their "home servers".

In fact a harsh switching system like "only one server per day" would still retain all of the advantages above while also making server hopping and ghosting pretty unbearable.

I did read that they plan on trying longer server spawn time for players that die. Its going to have ether one of two effects. Its going to piss the hell out of ppl and they leave the game or it turns out to be great and ppl start playing it more.

 

Its on the new developers blog they were talking about it.

[rickyriot 1009]

In many ways I think that death should have no punishment. If you die then you should be able to respawn within seconds. I can deal with the 30 seconds, as I suppose that deters people from committing suicide purely because they dislike their spawn. It's the hoppers we should target. I know there was some chat about incremental timers for those who swap between servers repeatedly I am not sure if that is still in place.

 

Ghosting is a similar problem, although clearly not the same. Should you stop people from returning to a server they have just left within a given period of time (say 5 minutes). If so, how do we get round the problem of people who are disconnected through no fault of their own, or for servers that are rebooted (crashed)?

[CJFlint 357]

Well at the end it is private shards. That to me is the only way currently not to have deal with ghosting and hopping.

Timers help cut down on it but it never really goes away. The way it is currently it something that goes on allot in 3pp public. I lump it in with "KOS" and the other bull shit that goes on in Dayz including the bugs. I don't like it, but have learned to adapt and deal with it. Players love to complain about all the bad stuff that goes on, but sure as fuck don't mind doing it to every one else lol

I really don't know what the solution is for public. What do you do other then make wait times longer.

Edited January 12, 2015 by CJFlint

[Deathlove 2286]

In many ways I think that death should have no punishment. If you die then you should be able to respawn within seconds. I can deal with the 30 seconds, as I suppose that deters people from committing suicide purely because they dislike their spawn. It's the hoppers we should target. I know there was some chat about incremental timers for those who swap between servers repeatedly I am not sure if that is still in place.

 

Ghosting is a similar problem, although clearly not the same. Should you stop people from returning to a server they have just left within a given period of time (say 5 minutes). If so, how do we get round the problem of people who are disconnected through no fault of their own, or for servers that are rebooted (crashed)?

They said the death spawn timer could be up to 12 hours.

 

"- Hardcore Mode: Initially we'll only support this on Private Shards, while we see how the mechanics impact gameplay - However the intent is to offer server operators the choice to restrict how long since a players last death they can respawn. Eg: A hardcore server could conceptually restrict players from respawning until 12 hours after their last death. We'll gauge how much impact this has on the design, and decide if it stays restricted to private shards, or we open this up to all public (consumer rented) hive servers. "

 

The only thing that i can see ruining this is dying to stupid crap or bugs in the game than having to wait 12 hours for something that was completely out of your controll.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Deathlove

[CJFlint 357]

I have been noticing more and more, many players I talk to are getting sick of what goes on in public servers. Hackers, hoppers ect ect. I have played public for so long, I can't smell the stank no more lol

[rickyriot 1009]

They said the death spawn timer could be up to 12 hours.

 

That seems extremely harsh. People shouldn't be punished for dying. I enjoyed it when the mod was completely lawless and dangerous and where lifespans were mere minutes. Having a high death spawn would be restrictive imo.

 

That's in relation to Public, of course, Private should have the option to set it as high as they want, although unscrupulous private hive admins could use it to their advantage. 

[Evil Minion 943]

I can deal with the 30 seconds, as I suppose that deters people from committing suicide purely because they dislike their spawn. It's the hoppers we should target.

30 seconds are way too short to prevent anyone from suiciding. And freshspawn suiciders are hoppers as well - just like server hoppers they abuse the game mechanics to teleport around. Thus both most be targeted and eliminated even though I agree that the cost for death shouldn't be nearly as harsh as the cost for server switches.

 

For our purpose here I think "ghosting" should mean switching to another server taking an action (like changing position) and then joining the old one. I would call the one that could also result from crashing - leaving a server and joining a couple of minutes after in the same place - "phasing". Any reasonable fix to server hopping would also affect ghosting basically turning it into mere comabt logging. All three could be targeted by not allowing the body of a logged player to disappear if too close to an active player. And in reverse "safe-zones" should prevent spawing into barricaded areas (unless you logged out inside). As for "phasing" it's probably reasonable to take over the body of your character if it's still ingame without any delay. If the body got removed (exact time might be a server variable instead of fixed 30 seconds) you would have to wait for a few minutes before being able to join.

 

Now back to hopping: Server hopping is easier to deal with as the number of non-abusers affected is fairly small and can be further reduced by not counting "got kicked" and "server restart" as switches (when joining another server on the same hive/shard). Allowing only a few switches until the cost gets too high might drastically reduce the issue while always applying high cost would completely remove it but also hurt others. Spawn hopping is more tricky but could be done in a similar but less harsh way - a cost that is not too high but still noticable in combination with weighted spawns (to avoid quick regearing and spawnkilling) might do the job here.