Are Bandits a bad thing?

[Nunk 1]

I have been playing Day Z for a couple of weeks now and really having fun.

Ok so what if I am on my 7th character due to silly decisions, approching zombies thinking they are Player characters and trying to plea to the better nature of bandits.

 

Bandits are a pain, there is no doubt about it but in the real world (real appocalypse) wouldnt we be trying to kill each other for

just a can of beans, lose our mind and just kill at random citing its better to be dead then Z'ed or maybe just shooting your friend for

his fancy sniper rifle.  There are friendly servers out there and the roleplaying ones look fun but i think the real day z is where you are hiding, constantly looking over your shoulder and where the bullet has no name on it. 

Edited January 5, 2015 by Nunk

[scriptfactory 620]

No, we wouldn't be trying to kill each other for a can of beans. We would try to rebuild society since we only had one life to live.

Example: All of the poor, starving people in central Africa aren't murdering each other for food. The killing is a political power struggle between Christians and Muslims.

[Briljin 102]

Example: All of the poor, starving people in central Africa aren't murdering each other for food. The killing is a political power struggle between Christians and Muslims.

 

People kill one another every day for reasons completely unrelated to "political power struggles".  In a world were resources are limited and the dead are walking around trying to kill eat you, there will be thus that view other survivors as a threat to their own survival.   Either as competition for the limited resources or due to them having something they need.  When pushed to the brink humans can be very noble and very evil beings.

[scriptfactory 620]

People kill one another every day for reasons completely unrelated to "political power struggles".  In a world were resources are limited and the dead are walking around trying to kill eat you, there will be thus that view other survivors as a threat to their own survival.   Either as competition for the limited resources or due to them having something they need.  When pushed to the brink humans can be very noble and very evil beings.

 

I just feel that you are overestimating the human need for violence and murder, perhaps based on Western presentations of such in the media. Homicide is one of the least common causes of human death. Less than 0.5% of deaths in the US are from homicides. Even when it occurs we can see the causes. Accidents. Psychological problems. Social/political/religious-based violence. Murder during the course of theft or whatever. For the people that live in third world countries (which are very similar to how a post-apocalyptic world would function) we have data that shows only perhaps 30 people per 100,000 are murdered. This is in areas that are absolutely decimated by poverty and have only a partially functioning government.

 

Edit: If we extrapolate those numbers to DayZ (and even increase them to 100 murders per 100,000 DayZ "lives" per in-game "year") for a server of 50 people almost no one should be getting murdered. Sickness and hunger should be killing all of us. We should be banding together for survival. You know, if DayZ was in any way realistic.

Edited January 5, 2015 by scriptfactory

[CJFlint 357]

I said this before on other threads, really "bandit" and "hero" are really just spill off terms from the mod. There vary lose terms used now days in the SA. In game Im thinking more is the player hostile or not hostile, which I determine through posture. Does he or she have a gun in hand, does the person appear to be hunting other players, thats how I decide. I don't waste my time even wondering what they are really up, how do I know, nor do I really give a shit. I just know that Im not going to be the one losing all my shit and have go back to the coast as long as I can help it. Its more of a play style in the SA, then something I will label random someone I dont know while playing, unless I know for a fact.

 

I think players robing each other and the other crap that goes on, is prob is a perfect example of why me and many others just dont bother taking chances with people. They dont give a shit If I have to go back to coast so why in the hell should I care if the get sent there. Right?

 

The rest is just a bunch of endless popycock bull shit.

Edited January 5, 2015 by CJFlint

[Death By Crowbar 1213]

Heroes, Bandits, KOS types, etc are all important in making the DayZ community what it is. They're a necessary evil, I just wish some people were more creative about it.

[Irish. 4886]

Heroes, Bandits, KOS types, etc are all important in making the DayZ community what it is. They're a necessary evil, I just wish some people were more creative about it.

 

Like stuffing rotten fruit in their aft sections?  ;)

[NinjaTurkey 255]

Bandits are not a bad thing, neither is kos. Everyone playing kos playstyle is however a problem. I just wish people would play the game with a bit of thought behind what they do, its all i ask.

[Death By Crowbar 1213]

Like stuffing rotten fruit in their aft sections?  ;)

Yes, rotten fruit should be used appropriately... is there any other purpose for it?  :lol:

[Briljin 102]

I just feel that you are overestimating the human need for violence and murder, perhaps based on Western presentations of such in the media. Homicide is one of the least common causes of human death. Less than 0.5% of deaths in the US are from homicides.

 

You have to remember that you are talking about two completely different settings.  Today's world would look nothing like an apocalyptic and yet people are still committing violent crimes every day, now imagine what it would be like with resources stretch and a non existent police force or legal system.  And you shouldn't be looking at homicides but violent crimes, because the numbers would be much higher if you removed the current day medical system we have (which won't exist in an apocalypse).  We are just lucky that in Dayz treating knife and bullet would requires a rag and a couple cans of peaches.  

 

 

[Irish. 4886]

Yes, rotten fruit should be used appropriately... is there any other purpose for it?  :lol:

 

There is no better application for rotten zucchini. Science has proven this to be true since the dawn of time.

 

Edited January 5, 2015 by lrish

[pillock 850]

I think it'd really help if there were more variety in character movement animations and appearance: specifically, if you're injured or sick or exhausted, you look like it and are suitably limited in your movement. That way, people could gauge each other's level of potential threat more easily, as well as making fresh spawns less able to do the Punchy-running-bollocks thing successfully.

 

A more realistic character movement might go quite a long way towards reducing the rampant "shoot first ask questions never" mentality, because it would give the armed player who has the drop on someone more advantage - and therefore less risk in making verbal contact. Blowing away everyone you see as soon as you see them is the safe option now, because as soon as you speak to someone they can suddenly become a human bluebottle, zooming around you with random, rapid changes of direction, which makes them difficult to hit. They wouldn't be able to do this if their movement was speed was less and they couldn't make 90 or 180 degree turns on the spot with no loss of momentum.

[CJFlint 357]

pssssssssssssp pssssssssp...over here...hey boy! em hm em hm boy don't be giving me that look! em hm em hm...  

[McWendy 675]

I play the bandit role from time to time. If they have little gear i just rob them for a canned tuna or something stupid. Just for the exerience it gives both parties. When they have high-end gear i usually take whatever i think upgrades me. I never KoS tho, just cant do it. :)

I also dont mind being robbed. I also dont mind being KOS. But please not in the back. :)

[Irish. 4886]

pssssssssssssp pssssssssp...over here...hey boy! em hm em hm boy don't be giving me that look! em hm em hm...  

[Whyherro123 2283]

You have to remember that you are talking about two completely different settings.  Today's world would look nothing like an apocalyptic and yet people are still committing violent crimes every day, now imagine what it would be like with resources stretch and a non existent police force or legal system.  And you shouldn't be looking at homicides but violent crimes, because the numbers would be much higher if you removed the current day medical system we have (which won't exist in an apocalypse).  We are just lucky that in Dayz treating knife and bullet would requires a rag and a couple cans of peaches.  

Actually the rates of homicide and violent assault in the US are the lowest they have been in 25 years, says my source.

 

https://www.quandl.com/c/society/us-violent-crime

 

And, once the SHTF, there totally would be a police/legal force. Armed militias would enforce community-enacted laws.  Armed militias for community defense and peace-keeping would probably form right after the communities themselves, which themselves would form almost as soon as it were practical to do so (read: almost immediately after the SHTF)

 

You people apparently do not understand the basic human desire (physiological need, really), for stability, companionship, and safety. Would there be bandits, murderers and killers? Of course, never said there wouldn't. However, they would also get pushed out to the fringes of post-apocalyptic society relatively quickly, and eventually be wiped out, either due to a lack of supplies due to not having trustworthy trading partners, or the villages they raid getting sick of their shit and gathering a militia to kill them off.

[Killawife 599]

Bandits can be fun, if they play the role and aren't just douchebags who toy with you and then kill you for no reason. But KoS:ers are never fun, just annoying and boring.

[comikz 218]

I believe that all playstyles are warranted in this game, I just feel that a lot of them are not putting any real effort into being their "role" you have people saying that they're a bandit, and all they do is kill on sight, or someone who says their a hero, and which all they are is a friendly player offering help.

 

I think this game would be boring of "bandits" weren't a thing, and we all got along.

[mercules 1290]

Yes, rotten fruit should be used appropriately... is there any other purpose for it?  :lol:

 

Cut it open for seeds you can plant?

 

Actually the rates of homicide and violent assault in the US are the lowest they have been in 25 years, says my source.

 

https://www.quandl.com/c/society/us-violent-crime

 

And, once the SHTF, there totally would be a police/legal force. Armed militias would enforce community-enacted laws.  Armed militias for community defense and peace-keeping would probably form right after the communities themselves, which themselves would form almost as soon as it were practical to do so (read: almost immediately after the SHTF)

 

You people apparently do not understand the basic human desire (physiological need, really), for stability, companionship, and safety. Would there be bandits, murderers and killers? Of course, never said there wouldn't. However, they would also get pushed out to the fringes of post-apocalyptic society relatively quickly, and eventually be wiped out, either due to a lack of supplies due to not having trustworthy trading partners, or the villages they raid getting sick of their shit and gathering a militia to kill them off.

Exactly. "Jericho" was a TV series based off the idea of what would happen if the power went out because of a multiple nuclear strikes in the U.S. The town of Jericho basically forms up to take care of it's own. Society doesn't devolve into nothingness immediately. Most of the people seek out some form of group functioning and government even if the structure is a lot more local.

Yes there are bandits and some are very effective in situations like that, but as the town organizes it fends off even large groups of bandits and protects itself. That is fairly realistic to how many people would react.

With the Walking Dead you have much the same. Most people end up grouping up to divide the labor and have someone who can watch you while you sleep, because you have to sleep sometime and I for one would rather not wake up with something chewing on my foot.

[dricht1 28]

To answer the question originally put forth in the title, yes. Bandits, in the current context of how the term is used in DayZ, are a bad thing.

Allow me to explain.

 

DayZ in its current state is about as far as you can reasonably get from a realistic depiction of a post-apocalypse while still being able to claim realism as an important design goal. The problems are varied, but most of them stem from one critical underlying flaw: there is, at present, virtually no player versus environment gameplay.

 

Sure, we can get cold. We can get hit by zombies, and bleed. We can get hungry or thirsty. But when was the last time any of those things actually posed a real threat to an experienced player? The biggest PvE threat at the moment is the dreaded ladder, followed by the equally dreaded uneven terrain (and subsequent leg break). Glitches are all we have to worry about, because food and water are plentiful, gear is fairly easy to come by, and ammunition is reasonably available. None of which would actually be a problem, except...

 

The zombies that supposedly caused the apocalypse pose virtually no threat to anyone.

 

I understand that they are working on that, and this isn't really meant to knock the game's clearly-stated 'Alpha' status. But this does leave other players as the primary form of engagement. In fact, it's so easy to survive that aside from setting 'loot-goals' for oneself, all there is to do in the game is interact with other players. And that means either making contact in an effort to be friendly (thereby running an extreme risk of being attacked, by the target or any buddies he may have, for no personal gain), holding up the player for resources you don't genuinely need or care about (also risky, also doesn't gain you anything relevant), or shooting them for giggles from the safety of a distant bush.

 

Is it any surprise that so many people pick the third option, given our natural aversion to risk?

 

But, that brings us back to the original topic. Are bandits bad? Yes, because in a true post-apocalyptic world you wouldn't have infinitely respawning bullets, infinitely respawning cans of peaches (and can openers), wells of infinite clean water, infinite bandages and magical morphine, and infinite lives. You would be lucky to have a gun at all, and luckier to have bullets. You would see other uninfected humans as someone who might kill you, true, but also as someone who might instead help you SURVIVE the zombies and starvation and other inconveniences of post-apocalyptic life that we don't currently have to worry about in DayZ. Hell, you'd probably be pretty keenly interested in survivors of the opposite sex, too, as well as even the faintest hope of a new society that might mean you don't have to fight tooth and nail for basic sustenance while simultaneously worrying that you might not wake up from your next night's sleep.

 

Instead, we have DayZ - where your next meal will spawn in that house up ahead, a quick run through a military base will yield all the guns and bullets you need, and all you have to do for a safe and secure night's sleep is hit that exit button while you aren't actively being shot at. And even if you do the bandit thing, you face no consequences for doing so, because death isn't permenant and a simple server change can ensure that your reputation is irrelevant even if a community does form.

 

In the current sub-optimal state the game, bandits are in some regards necessary for the type of gameplay many people come to DayZ to experience (paranoia, tension, etc). But please don't confuse that with 'KoSers are just playing realistically'. They aren't, and they add precious little to the game compared to those bandits that actually put some effort into creating an interesting scenario like a capture or holdup. Even those folks are 'faking it', but at least they're doing it with some style and creativity.

 

#thingsyoudotokilltimeatwork

Edited January 5, 2015 by dricht1

[yazar8 584]

DayZ is a game, it has nothing to do with real life and it will never get close to real life.

 

You can't respawn at real life, you won't run in to the city if there are 100 zombies and if you get hit by them you would bleed and some rags won't fix a bleeding. This game is not even close to real and no game will be.

 

So, bandits are a good thing, only if they really do it the way it is meant to be.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Yazar8

[zeotrope 76]

No, we wouldn't be trying to kill each other for a can of beans. We would try to rebuild society since we only had one life to live.

Example: All of the poor, starving people in central Africa aren't murdering each other for food. The killing is a political power struggle between Christians and Muslims.

 

People who are born into poverty are a little different to people that suddenly lose everything. In some parts of the world society is on the brink of anarchy. It only takes a trigger for some social groups (usually very civilized) to lose control and literally, run riot. 

[pillock 850]

People who are born into poverty are a little different to people that suddenly lose everything. In some parts of the world society is on the brink of anarchy. It only takes a trigger for some social groups (usually very civilized) to lose control and literally, run riot. 

 

Not meaning to pick on you or your post in particular: rather, the general argument about how people would or might or do behave in real situations. It's pretty much irrelevant.

 

DayZ doesn't simulate that situation - at all. Notwithstanding the presence of zombies and all the unrealistic mechanics currently in the game which may or may not be changed later in development, the scenario is just not a representation of the thing people are arguing about. Namely, there are no vulnerable people to protect. No children, no elderly, noone with disabilities. Everyone is a (relatively) fit, able-bodied 20/30-something. There is no distinction or variation of physical ability or attributes. Maybe (maybe) we might get a more detailed, longer-term injury system so players might want to look after their mate(s) while they heal, but that's it. Furthermore, in DayZ there is no future. There is nothing to build towards. There is no escaping the apocalypse, neither by relocation nor the rebuilding of society. You cannot have children. You're stuck there, you have no hope and you will​ die.

 

If DayZ is a simulation of anything, then it's the bit of time in between the initial panic and destruction of the outbreak, and the later organisation and rebuilding phase which would inevitably develop. We don't get to play those bits of before and of after, though - we just get that "in-between" bit, the time when noone knows what's going on, noone has a plan and noone knows who else is out there or what their intentions might be. In reality, this part of the process might be only very short-lived - but that's all DayZ gives you, over and over.

 

Bandits or murderers or man-hunters or KoS CoD kids or whatever you want to call them - they're not going away. What's more, they will probably remain the majority of the player base, no matter what else the game lets you do when it is more feature-complete and balanced. Are they a bad thing? Yes, absolutely. Fucking hate the bastards.

[PhillyT 554]

No, we wouldn't be trying to kill each other for a can of beans. We would try to rebuild society since we only had one life to live.

Example: All of the poor, starving people in central Africa aren't murdering each other for food. The killing is a political power struggle between Christians and Muslims.

 

I am thinking you have not brushed up on basic human nature and history.

[scriptfactory 620]

I am thinking you have not brushed up on basic human nature and history.

 

Do you have an example that proves otherwise?