What none of us want to admit

[ruinerkc 4]

Persistence is an amazing idea but in reality it is terrible.  I have played many hours of Dayz SA (150 plus) and I love the game and I understand it is a work in progress.  I also understand that persistence will be tweaked many times, but I am talking about it as a game feature overall. 

All loot is gone from the coastal areas so it encourages players to go inland (no problem with that).  Once you go inland to a small town many building have an abundance of useless loot (chem lights, wrenches, hard hats, books, etc.).  All usable loot has been taken and all useless loot has been left.  Loot will respawn over and over but players will continue to leave crap and take the few desirable items.  Over time this leaves an abundance of garbage that the server has to track.  Like I said above, I understand it is a work in progress and it will be tweaked but the tweaks can only go so far while still keeping the game persistent.   It is an unnecessary restraint the devs are putting on themselves and the game.

I think tents being persistent is a great idea and it should stay but I think the overall server persistence will not be in the final game.  Most every player has the same goals in the game, get healthy, get geared, pvp of some form or another.  The process of achieving those goals must be fun and rewarding or the game will not succeed. 

The old system of loot respawning on server restart was not perfect either but it made more sense than the current system and the old system has to be more sustainable than the server tracking the location of each piece of moved loot.  As players of games in general we accept the fact that if you kill a guy or drop an item it is not going to be there forever, wanting it to be so is silly. 

Persistence encourages unrealistic actions such as looting a building 100% and dumping all of the stuff outside or just taking guns and ammo that you do not want or need and dropping them in a bush.  That is not realistic and it seems that all the people that want persistence are all about being as realistic as possible.  Persistence is far from realistic and I do not believe any amount of tweaking will make it so.

Bash away......

 

 

 

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Deja Vu..........

[Evil Minion 943]

"I know something is work in progress and has some issues but because those issues exist its bad and should not be ingame."

 

I really don't get this kind of logic because all the issues you are talking about are not intrinsic to the concept of persistence but are rather specific issues with the current implementation that can be fixed - but not by fatalism.

[ruinerkc 4]

"I know something is work in progress and has some issues but because those issues exist its bad and should not be ingame."

 

I really don't get this kind of logic because all the issues you are talking about are not intrinsic to the concept of persistence but are rather specific issues with the current implementation that can be fixed - but not by fatalism.

I guess that is my point, I do not think persistence can be fixed and that is why as a whole it does not exist in games.  There are too many problems to overcome to be workable.

[xalienax 621]

I share the OP's concerns, but ultimately i think it is just too early to write it off as being 'bad for the game'. we can't really make that judgement untill we see it's final iteration. i am concerned tho about it's ramifications if it ends up being done poorly or gets into release in an incomplete state.

[Whyherro123 2283]

  Most every player has the same goals in the game, get healthy, get geared, pvp of some form or another.  

Nope, I am here for survival, not for "only" PvP.

 

I can survive with a bow (made of rope and an ash stick), arrows (made of sticks and feathers), a backpack (made with rope, burlap sack, sticks), an axe, a knife, and matches. Everything else is "extra".

 

Proptip: I've found everything I need to make the above list in Solnichny, on a persistent server, that has been full for 3 hours. Thing is, you actually have to work for things. Terrible, huh?

 

Persistence IS realistic, btw.

Edited November 25, 2014 by Whyherro123

[Tatanko 5591]

I have played many hours of Dayz SA (150 plus)

Hmmm, yeah, about that...

[BadAsh (DayZ) 1513]

Persistence is an amazing idea but in reality it is terrible.  I have played many hours of Dayz SA (150 plus) and I love the game and I understand it is a work in progress.  I also understand that persistence will be tweaked many times, but I am talking about it as a game feature overall. 

All loot is gone from the coastal areas so it encourages players to go inland (no problem with that).  Once you go inland to a small town many building have an abundance of useless loot (chem lights, wrenches, hard hats, books, etc.).  All usable loot has been taken and all useless loot has been left.  Loot will respawn over and over but players will continue to leave crap and take the few desirable items.  Over time this leaves an abundance of garbage that the server has to track.  Like I said above, I understand it is a work in progress and it will be tweaked but the tweaks can only go so far while still keeping the game persistent.   It is an unnecessary restraint the devs are putting on themselves and the game.

I think tents being persistent is a great idea and it should stay but I think the overall server persistence will not be in the final game.  Most every player has the same goals in the game, get healthy, get geared, pvp of some form or another.  The process of achieving those goals must be fun and rewarding or the game will not succeed. 

The old system of loot respawning on server restart was not perfect either but it made more sense than the current system and the old system has to be more sustainable than the server tracking the location of each piece of moved loot.  As players of games in general we accept the fact that if you kill a guy or drop an item it is not going to be there forever, wanting it to be so is silly. 

Persistence encourages unrealistic actions such as looting a building 100% and dumping all of the stuff outside or just taking guns and ammo that you do not want or need and dropping them in a bush.  That is not realistic and it seems that all the people that want persistence are all about being as realistic as possible.  Persistence is far from realistic and I do not believe any amount of tweaking will make it so.

Bash away......

 

You left out the important thing about loot outside persistent containers will degrade. So it should not be such an eternal buildup of trash loot, because that trash loot will degrade and eventually disappear making new loot spawn somewhere else.

[ob1korobi 125]

I guess that is my point, I do not think persistence can be fixed and that is why as a whole it does not exist in games.  There are too many problems to overcome to be workable.

 

The devs will agree on a specific solution for their idea of persistence and that will end up being what you have to play with. Like it or leave it is what I imagine your choices will be. Unless it does get thrown out altogether. Me personally, I would love for it to remain a feature in some shape or form. 

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

loot will degrade and eventually disappear making new loot spawn somewhere else.

Which is what I think the argument is about.  A thinly disguised, "I don't want to have to search off the coast for stuff" complaint.

[BadAsh (DayZ) 1513]

Which is what I think the argument is about.  A thinly disguised, "I don't want to have to search off the coast for stuff" complaint.

 

Possibly, but I would claim that it would indeed still be possible to find decent loot on the coast after persistence implementation. You just have to search every house, especially places that you would not think would contain loot.

 

This is a big improvement over the old system, where you not only could reasonably well predict which buildings would contain loot, but also, based on server restart time, whether it would be looted or not. Basically it exchanges the old system, which worked a bit like going to the grocery store and picking up stuff from carefully sorted but plentiful shelves, to a much more realistic loot experience, where loot is more random and you can't afford to miss a shed or a bed room in case you missed that particular item.

[Rags! 1966]

Because having servers restart every two hours and totally break immersion and interrupt gameplay is the best solution...

[huf757 82]

All loot is gone from the coastal areas so it encourages players to go inland (no problem with that).  Once you go inland to a small town many building have an abundance of useless loot (chem lights, wrenches, hard hats, books, etc.).  All usable loot has been taken and all useless loot has been left. 

 

This is so not true. Let me rephrase this for you.   "I cannot find any loot on full servers in cherno, electro and berezino since those are the main spawn points and it is a full server with people dying all the time". I can tell you this even on full servers I can find good loot in these cities.  I don't find an ak in 5 minutes or anything silly like that but an sks with some rounds or 357 and such sure do.

[ruinerkc 4]

Which is what I think the argument is about.  A thinly disguised, "I don't want to have to search off the coast for stuff" complaint.

Your thinly veiled attitude is apparent.  My post was not a  "I don't want to have to search off the coast for stuff" complaint, I spend most all of my time off of the coast.  It was an explanation to why I believe the pursuit of persistence and realistic loot is at its core flawed and unattainable. 

[klesh 2423]

I do not think persistence can be fixed and that is why as a whole it does not exist in games.

 

What, praytell, is your basis for that presumption?

[ruinerkc 4]

Because having servers restart every two hours and totally break immersion and interrupt gameplay is the best solution...

No, that was terrible and so is server hopping at military areas.  I do not know the correct solution I just don't see persistence being viable.

[ruinerkc 4]

What, praytell, is your basis for that presumption?

What games does it work well on?

[pillock 850]

No, that was terrible and so is server hopping at military areas.  I do not know the correct solution I just don't see persistence being viable.

 

I don't think DayZ is viable without it.

[Private Evans 1303]

In this case I am hoping for a soon implementation of world containers. This will help a lot with performance and stuff since a good amount of loot would not be spawned in the gameworld anymore.Will also make looting more interesting...

[klesh 2423]

What games does it work well on?

 

 

You don't think the DayZ developers can fix persistence in their game because completely different people haven't been able to do it in other games? 

[ValentinBk (DayZ) 60]

I`m with OP on this one. And honestly? I`m not hiding that I don't want to search for loot off coast. I want to get a gun with some ammo and jump in the hell people sometimes call "Berezino". People want to explore the map and live in peace and harmony with the environment? Enjoy yourselves, but please don't spoil my fun.

[Whyherro123 2283]

I`m with OP on this one. And honestly? I`m not hiding that I don't want to search for loot off coast. I want to get a gun with some ammo and jump in the hell people sometimes call "Berezino". People want to explore the map and live in peace and harmony with the environment? Enjoy yourselves, but please don't spoil my fun.

I hate to say it, but really, you are playing the wrong type of game. 

 

You want to play Deathmatch on a poorly optimized Survival simulator? Go right ahead, but don't complain when the game moves in a direction that makes it harder for you to play Deathmatch. Because that is what loot persistence is, in part, as well as the cities along the coast being stripped of loot. 

[CJFlint 357]

Persistence is an amazing idea but in reality it is terrible.  I have played many hours of Dayz SA (150 plus) and I love the game and I understand it is a work in progress.  I also understand that persistence will be tweaked many times, but I am talking about it as a game feature overall. 

All loot is gone from the coastal areas so it encourages players to go inland (no problem with that).  Once you go inland to a small town many building have an abundance of useless loot (chem lights, wrenches, hard hats, books, etc.).  All usable loot has been taken and all useless loot has been left.  Loot will respawn over and over but players will continue to leave crap and take the few desirable items.  Over time this leaves an abundance of garbage that the server has to track.  Like I said above, I understand it is a work in progress and it will be tweaked but the tweaks can only go so far while still keeping the game persistent.   It is an unnecessary restraint the devs are putting on themselves and the game.

I think tents being persistent is a great idea and it should stay but I think the overall server persistence will not be in the final game.  Most every player has the same goals in the game, get healthy, get geared, pvp of some form or another.  The process of achieving those goals must be fun and rewarding or the game will not succeed. 

The old system of loot respawning on server restart was not perfect either but it made more sense than the current system and the old system has to be more sustainable than the server tracking the location of each piece of moved loot.  As players of games in general we accept the fact that if you kill a guy or drop an item it is not going to be there forever, wanting it to be so is silly. 

Persistence encourages unrealistic actions such as looting a building 100% and dumping all of the stuff outside or just taking guns and ammo that you do not want or need and dropping them in a bush.  That is not realistic and it seems that all the people that want persistence are all about being as realistic as possible.  Persistence is far from realistic and I do not believe any amount of tweaking will make it so.

Bash away......

I have seen this too, thats why I log into none persist servers while gearing. That exact reason you discribe. There is much of the time nothing there, or stuff people left crap behind. This is something I saw too and adapted to. 

 

You said, "Most every player has the same goals in the game, get healthy, get geared, pvp of some form or another. The process of achieving those goals must be fun and rewarding or the game will not succeed." People who think like that only live a few days in dayz, why accept that too? DayZ is a sandbox with 100% game play freedom...You dont have to do what everyone else does. Not always true all the time anyways. Me, surivial is my end game period. So pvp is just something I have to do when someone gets in the way of my survival or I'm in a trouble making mood. Not nec an endgame. But in all honesty players endgame vary from player to player. There is nothing linear about DayZ

 

My advice would be try a none persist server. I have been on persist servers and there is nothing anywhere except junk people discarded.

 

So loot from my perspective is not at all a problem in .50. Exp I have not tried yet. Most of the loot issues are cause by perist servers were everything is taken..Server selection is the cure.

Edited November 25, 2014 by CJFlint

[pigman 7]

I`m with OP on this one. And honestly? I`m not hiding that I don't want to search for loot off coast. I want to get a gun with some ammo and jump in the hell people sometimes call "Berezino". People want to explore the map and live in peace and harmony with the environment? Enjoy yourselves, but please don't spoil my fun.

 

but thats not what this game is. its a post apocalypse survival simulator, yes pvp and other humans should be a threat but the biggest difficulty should be going day to day with enough food, not freezing to death, and not being killed by the infected

[DemonGroover 8836]

Be nice if we could make a fire and throw some of these "useless" items on to destroy them....i really hate finding buildings absolutely cluttered with gear.  Would love a good bonfire.

 

But then again persistence will be a constantly evolving thing for the devs to tweek and change.