What do you think about realism in DayZ?

[CJFlint 357]

After playing dayz for serveral hunderd hours, I seeing more and more that dayz is not 100% realistic about anything. Everything from weather mechanics, to weapons to surviving. It really just isn't. It's losly based off reality...Id say much more realistic the then some games but still its losely based....But is that a bad thing? Do we really want to get hung up on realism? The truth is based off my exp backpacking, outdoor sports and serving in the military, I can tell dayz and the world it simulates is more dangerous then reality and sometimes its not all. Its really warped, infact real world knowlege will only go so far. Also tacticly its off too, I can tell you real world tactics don't always apply. Theres missing elements and added elements, like for ex ghosting. But is it something that is negative? Or is what makes dayz.....well dayz? Infact after a a while playing I think dayz is 50% tactics/common since and 50% knowing the mechanics of the game. Thats right 50 50. I apply "DayZ skills" to the game not real world. 

 

You can really drive your self crazy playing dayz and holding it to a 100% realism standard. Does it really need to be 100% realistic or can we get be ok with the way its the development is going now?...I think I'm ok with it.

 

What does everyone else think?

Edited October 21, 2014 by CJFlint

[DURRHUNTER 597]

Why the fuck would i have a flashlight in the middle of the day?

[CJFlint 357]

Why the fuck would i have a flashlight in the middle of the day?

Through it on the ground...thats what I do LOL

Edited October 21, 2014 by CJFlint

[umm_me 77]

Why the fuck would i have a flashlight in the middle of the day?

 

Because last night it was dark?

[umm_me 77]

After playing dayz for serveral hunderd hours, I seeing more and more that dayz is not 100% realistic about anything. Everything from weather mechanics, to weapons to surviving. It really just isn't. It's losly based off reality...Id say much more realistic the then some games but still its losely based....But is that a bad thing? Do we really want to get hung up on realism? The truth is based off my exp backpacking, outdoor sports and serving in the military, I can tell dayz and the world it simulates is more dangerous then reality and sometimes its not all. Its really warped, infact real world knowlege will only go so far. Also tacticly its off too, I can tell you real world tactics don't always apply. Theres missing elements and added elements, like for ex ghosting. But is it something that is negative? Or is what makes dayz.....well dayz? Infact after a a while playing I think dayz is 50% tactics/common since and 50% knowing the mechanics of the game. Thats right 50 50. I apply "DayZ skills" to the game not real world. 

 

You can really drive your self crazy playing dayz and holding it to a 100% realism standard. Does it really need to be 100% realistic or can we get be ok with the way its the development is going now?...I think I'm ok with it.

 

What does everyone else think?

 

 

I dont think we want game play to be "realistic" but to stress survival priorities in a reasonable/enjoyable way in a timeline that makes sense for game play. At the end of a game session I want to have been challenged to simply stay alive, but have enjoyed my experience doing so, or perhaps be slightly annoyed that I failed to do so.

[svisketyggeren 662]

Yes im hung up on realism...for most aspects of gameplay. For instance...I would like there to be different clothing materials, wool keeps u warmer when wet...cotton/down have low insulating properties when wet. I would like run speed to be reduced when wearing a big full backapack...and certainly sprinting with a full 100 liter backpack is not viable. I would like proper pitch black nighttime...etc etc..

 

The direction Dayz is taking concering realism im mostly happy with. Small features like sharpening ur axe with a rock are awsome, fishing, hunting etc are all awsome. These features add depth to the game.

 

Overall I would like that everything got slowed down in Dayz...specially concering hunger/thirst. There should be less food and u should stay satiated for longer.

 

So maybe u wonder if I want a pooping mechanism cos I want realism so badly im prepared to take a dump for it...no not really, something like that dosent add much to the dynamic gameplay other than keeping u busy for about 15 seconds.

 

To illustrate a meaningfull realistic gameplay element take wool clothing...u where lucky to have a thick wool sweater on ur body which made u less cold when the rain started, which again made u shiver less when u encountered another player...which again made it easier to take a clear shoot at said player.The other player...not so lucky cos he didnt have a wool sweater, cos he was hungry and weak and had badly damaged clothing on him...maybe even his gun was in poor condition, big akward backpack which made him less mobile etc etc.

It all adds up and ties togehter.

Edited October 21, 2014 by svisketyggeren

[Evil Minion 943]

I think it should be authentic in a way that you feel you are in the real world with enough realism and complexicity to pull it off. In fact. Things should roughly behave like they would in the real world and not fullfill some unrealistic hollywood clichés. As I think the game should have a lot of depth and many complex features (in a way un-gamified) those should work realistically.

 

Now at some points there are limitations - be it technical or because of the format of the game. Here breaks from reality are allowed and simplifications (like using random dispersion instead of a complicated system with hundreds of tiny parameters) as well. However breaks from reality should not hurt the authentic feel. For example there should be skirts because you will see them almost everywhere in real life - but you don't want them to have tons of storage space and protection against everything.

 

On the other side realism should also not hurt the authentic feel (just to make this clear again: @tacticoolCrowd: DayZ is not supposed to be a MilSim and @antiTacticoolCrowd: special military equipment does not turn the game into Call of Duty). This would happen if realism and format collide - best seen in hunger/thirst rates and healing. Nobody plays this game 24/7 so no survivor uses enegery 24/7 while in reality all humans do. So unrealistically high hunger/thirst/healing rates actually improve authenticity by making you worry about food/water as much as you would in a real life situation.

 

So realism where it adds depth, options and leaves the impression of being in a real life zombie apocalypse. This makes for versatile and understandable gameplay. Breaks from reality where technical limitations and the overall format demand it. And the avoidance of complex but unrealistic features whereever possible.

 

In short: Realism as a means of adding depth to the game and allows to make choices based on real life considerations.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Evil Minion

[Deathlove 2286]

Yes im hung up on realism...for most aspects of gameplay. For instance...I would like there to be different clothing materials, wool keeps u warmer when wet...cotton/down have low insulating properties when wet. I would like run speed to be reduced when wearing a big full backapack...and certainly sprinting with a full 100 liter backpack is not viable. I would like proper pitch black nighttime...etc etc..

 

The direction Dayz is taking concering realism im mostly happy with. Small features like sharpening ur axe with a rock are awsome, fishing, hunting etc are all awsome. These features add depth to the game.

 

Overall I would like that everything got slowed down in Dayz...specially concering hunger/thirst. There should be less food and u should stay satiated for longer.

 

So maybe u wonder if I want a pooping mechanism cos I want realism so badly im prepared to take a dump for it...no not really, something like that dosent add much to the dynamic gameplay other than keeping u busy for about 15 seconds.

 

To illustrate a meaningfull realistic gameplay element take wool clothing...u where lucky to have a thick wool sweater on ur body which made u less cold when the rain started, which again made u shiver less when u encountered another player...which again made it easier to take a clear shoot at said player.The other player...not so lucky cos he didnt have a wool sweater, cos he was hungry and weak and had badly damaged clothing on him...maybe even his gun was in poor condition, big akward backpack which made him less mobile etc etc.

It all adds up and ties togehter.

The soon to come duct taping items will be a welcome as well.

 

Having all the clothing give you different pros and cons would be nice to. Like i would really love to see hiking boots be a better tool when climbing rugged terrain than what they are right now. Currently it does not matter what boots or shoes you have on for certain types of terrain sadly. Not sure if Jungle Boots are working properly yet ether?

[svisketyggeren 662]

The soon to come duct taping items will be a welcome as well.

 

Having all the clothing give you different pros and cons would be nice to. Like i would really love to see hiking boots be a better tool when climbing rugged terrain than what they are right now. Currently it does not matter what boots or shoes you have on for certain types of terrain sadly. Not sure if Jungle Boots are working properly yet ether?

 

Im ducttaping in experimental...just reinforced my matchbox ;)

 

In the real world if u walk in the mountains with a pair of sneakers and a 20-30 kg backpack, ur feet would be really sore after 8-10 hours. Do this for 1-3 days and im pretty sure u couldnt even walk. I have done this myself on backpacking trips.

Also sneakers would be teared apart pretty fast in rugged terrain.

 

Im not saying we need a feet soreness meter. But having hiking boots or sneakers should have its pros and cons.

Edited October 21, 2014 by svisketyggeren

[Deathlove 2286]

Im ducttaping in experimental...just reinforced my matchbox ;)

 

In the real world if u walk in the mountains with a pair of sneakers and a 20-30 kg backpack, ur feet would be really sore after 8-10 hours. Do this for 1-3 days and im pretty sure u couldnt even walk. I have done this myself on backpacking trips.

Also sneakers would be teared apart pretty fast in rugged terrain.

 

Im not saying we need a feet soreness meter. But having hiking boots or sneakers should have its pros and cons.

Sneakers and jogging shoes would be much better for flat terrain and running faster per say. I could see those being the pros at least.

 

But as far as aesthetics go the types of shoes we have come in a wonderful array of colors. I just would like to see more use from the various types for different situations lol.

 

Military boots and jungle boots are by far my favorite.

[Death By Crowbar 1213]

I think realism needs to be tempered with what's reasonable to result in a game that's worth playing.

 

Realism to a higher degree in having a 1:1 time ration (not time moving at super speed) along with proper exhaustion and run speed alone would result in a game that's essentially unplayable. It would be impossible to travel anywhere within a reasonable period of time. Anyone who merely had an hour or two to jump on and play probably wouldn't because it would be difficult to make it further than 1 or 2 towns, and forget hiking up into the woods inland towards some of the harder to get places. Not only would this game not be playable, it wouldn't be any fun.

 

Understanding that this is a game and certain mechanics need to be unrealistic in order to keep it playable and fun enough there are a few things that would be awesome to have, but I think I've seen most of them already discussed before or even already planned in the rough road map. Combined with tweaking some of the effects that are already a little out of whack I think the realism is going to far exceed anything else out there and be more than please the general masses. With 2.5 copies sold and counting, there's a lot of people to keep happy - they can't and won't cater solely to the CoD style lazy crowd (resulting in something too far from realism) and they also can't and won't cater solely to the hardcore "I'm going to craft everything and live off the land HARDCORE style!" crowd (resulting in something far too realistic and not very fun).

 

I'm pretty happy with the general direction.

[CJFlint 357]

I can say with all honesty, currently dayz is only somewhat realistic vs reality. But...

 

Much of what makes dayz....dayz is its intense. There really isn't anytime you are not looking over your shoulder. In dayZ it simulates a really lethal unforgiving world (High Pops not Low), were something at some point will kill you. Wether you slowly get bleed by your wounds, you get shot, or you starve...something will kill you. It creates tention and lots of it. It varys person to person. It can cause you to over react and even completly panic. Some even lose it playing and completly freak out. Its by design. Its a game that really is psycological on players, it really does have an effect. Once I realised that the game became much less tense and my thinking became much more logical in game. Its what they did really well, and I would like to see more of. In fact players can use it too there advantage...the fear factor. So this aspect is better then just about anygame I have seen. It adds realism.

 

What I want to see is the inventory system in game become more organic, and natural feeling. It seems really crude were it is now. Its not realistic.

 

I do want to see much more mechanics added. I also want to see everything run alittle more fluid. When I go from one game to dayz, I notice that dayz at times is rather clunky. Its not smooth. Which to me takes aways from immersion. Bug also take the feeling you are really there away fast. So there is allot of stuff in the game now that ruin the immersion..Im sure it will be fixed at some point.   

 

But there has to be a functional balance, also we have to remember....this is a game it needs to be fun too.

Edited October 21, 2014 by CJFlint

[Deathlove 2286]

I think realism needs to be tempered with what's reasonable to result in a game that's worth playing.

 

Realism to a higher degree in having a 1:1 time ration (not time moving at super speed) along with proper exhaustion and run speed alone would result in a game that's essentially unplayable. It would be impossible to travel anywhere within a reasonable period of time. Anyone who merely had an hour or two to jump on and play probably wouldn't because it would be difficult to make it further than 1 or 2 towns, and forget hiking up into the woods inland towards some of the harder to get places. Not only would this game not be playable, it wouldn't be any fun.

 

Understanding that this is a game and certain mechanics need to be unrealistic in order to keep it playable and fun enough there are a few things that would be awesome to have, but I think I've seen most of them already discussed before or even already planned in the rough road map. Combined with tweaking some of the effects that are already a little out of whack I think the realism is going to far exceed anything else out there and be more than please the general masses. With 2.5 copies sold and counting, there's a lot of people to keep happy - they can't and won't cater solely to the CoD style lazy crowd (resulting in something too far from realism) and they also can't and won't cater solely to the hardcore "I'm going to craft everything and live off the land HARDCORE style!" crowd (resulting in something far too realistic and not very fun).

 

I'm pretty happy with the general direction.

Thats why i think things like hiking boots and such need to have a function for very rough terrain and mountains. It would be nice anyways and would really add some value to those civilian items. Eh probably a few more items that could use some tweaks but so far they are making decent progress on allot of features to add depth.

[kypkalorian 2]

OP,

 

could you expound upon the danger/tactical points you have made? Very interesting post.

 

Regards,

 

 

Private Pie

[bfisher 561]

It's an abstraction of reality.  Absolute reality wouldn't be fun or practical.  For example:

 

 A 24 hour day/night cycle is realistic, but it's not particularly useful because people tend not to play for days straight in real time.  They log onto a server during the day (or night if that's what they want), play for a few hours, then log off.  A shorter day night cycle (like every other game ever) would actually have more of an impact by forcing you to find light sources, shelter for the night, time your movements so you don't get caught in the woods after dark and so on.

 

IRL, it takes weeks to starve to death and typically a few days to die of dehydration.  The Mod forced you to eat on the same meal cycle as my 8 week old infant and I have no idea what the Standalone does with food and drink.

 

You cannot heal a broken leg by putting a splint on it or jacking up with morphine IRL.  But I don't want to play a "sit in a shed for 8 weeks recovering from a busted leg" simulator.

 

I can probably fit a lot more clothes in a backpack and sling a couple more rifles to my shoulder IRL than I can in the game.

 

So on and so forth.

 

 

You need a balance between cartoonish Grand Theft Auto "invisible backpack with an AK-47, Barett 50 cal rifle, rocket launcher and minigun and so much realistic detail that the game is tedious to play.

[XibaRootS 40]

I just ate 4 cans of beans and im still hungry, i guess there is a fucking alien growing in my belly.

 

So yea, is pretty realistic.

[Deathlove 2286]

I just ate 4 cans of beans and im still hungry, i guess there is a fucking alien growing in my belly.

 

So yea, is pretty realistic.

Hahaha that gave me some pretty graphic images. XD

[terminal_boy 860]

It won't be realistic until it features all the weapons from Halo.

[Act III 50]

Im ducttaping in experimental...just reinforced my matchbox ;)

 

 

 I did not realize duct tape was given a purpose in experimental. What other functions does it offer?

 

 

 

Sneakers and jogging shoes would be much better for flat terrain and running faster per say. I could see those being the pros at least.

 

This. It would be cool if we had a character stat for "Weight" "Speed" (Decimal form?) etc, and depending on which items are equipped, it would affect how slowly or quickly our character moves. And depending on what terrain is currently being stood on, the text would change colours, indicating what type of terrain the character is on. Whether it be, concrete, dirt, grass, rock, etc.

 

I agree that footwear should definitely affect the player.

[svisketyggeren 662]

 I did not realize duct tape was given a purpose in experimental. What other functions does it offer?

 

 

 

 

I have duct taped my downjacket...u cant use the sewingkit  downjackets. Im pretty sure u can use duct tape on rainjackets too since the sewingkit wont apply to those either. There where some other items I used tape on but cant remember right now...we probaly can duct tape other players mouths later :)

Edited October 21, 2014 by svisketyggeren

[Lumeria 27]

I have no issues with realism is Dayz and what people have said so far in this thread are good realistic aspects that I would not mind to see in the game. However what. I don't want to see is DayZ reach a point where it is so obsessed with realism is it an unfun mess and only the most hardcore MilSim players are still even playing. I want the game to be immersive, but at the same time still a game.

I have no problem with the current level of realism in DayZ at the moment. But if it gets to the point where I feel like I am playing a simulator I know I will quit as will many others.

[Whyherro123 2283]

Because last night it was dark?

I don't know about you, but when it gets dark, I go to sleep. In real life, there is absolutely no reason I can think of to go blundering about in the dark. The risks far outweigh the rewards. Same thing stands for Day Z; I can't think of something to do during the night that I can do during the day, when I am not handicapped by the dark. Gamma-abusing is for cheaters, and I'm not a fan of being defenseless with a flashlight.

 

It's an abstraction of reality.  Absolute reality wouldn't be fun or practical.  For example:

 

 A 24 hour day/night cycle is realistic, but it's not particularly useful because people tend not to play for days straight in real time.  They log onto a server during the day (or night if that's what they want), play for a few hours, then log off.  A shorter day night cycle (like every other game ever) would actually have more of an impact by forcing you to find light sources, shelter for the night, time your movements so you don't get caught in the woods after dark and so on.

 

IRL, it takes weeks to starve to death and typically a few days to die of dehydration.  The Mod forced you to eat on the same meal cycle as my 8 week old infant and I have no idea what the Standalone does with food and drink.

 

You cannot heal a broken leg by putting a splint on it or jacking up with morphine IRL.  But I don't want to play a "sit in a shed for 8 weeks recovering from a busted leg" simulator.

 

I can probably fit a lot more clothes in a backpack and sling a couple more rifles to my shoulder IRL than I can in the game.

 

So on and so forth.

 

 

You need a balance between cartoonish Grand Theft Auto "invisible backpack with an AK-47, Barett 50 cal rifle, rocket launcher and minigun and so much realistic detail that the game is tedious to play.

I hold the opinion that if you "break a limb" in Day Z, you should just die. It is both far more realistic in the medical sense (break a leg in the backcountry, with no help coming, and no splint in the world will save you. The marrow will either get infected, cut you up on the inside, or you will get bone fragments in your bloodstream and die a VERY painful death from internal hemorrhaging.) and in the logical sense (morphine is a pain killer. Thats.....that it. It doesn't cause any actual healing. And a shitty splint made of rags and some sticks will not let you walk on a broken leg. It will just immobilize the limb, and not even provide any traction at that. [so, really, using the splints in-game would cause actual damage to a healing bone])

 

Don't want a broken bone? Simple, don't run when you can walk, don't climb over things when not necessary (fences, walls, etc), wear footwear with proper supports, don't put yourself in a position where you can get shot in the legs, etc. Granted, this means the Devs will have to fix all of the "leg-breaking" glitches, but whatever, a man can dream...

 

I've touched on the " food and drink" aspect in another thread  (http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/213246-eating-and-drinking-system-please-just-give-it-up/), so I'll just summarize it here: yes, it takes a few weeks and days to die from starvation and dehydration. But, up until you expire,  you will not be peachy keen. When you finally die, you will be a half-crazy lump of wasted flesh. 

 

I give you the backpack thing, and that has always been a pet-peeve of mine. I can carry a weeks worth of gear (clothes, food, water, equipment, bedding, etc) on my person and in an Assault Pack. Why does a box of matches take up the same space as half a STANAG magazine? -sigh- But....balance, I suppose?

 

I've always wanted a "faster" day-night span of time. It makes sense considering the distances we travel, and would actually make us play at day and at night. Since Day Z is set in Autumn, have DAY be 3 hours and NIGHT be 4. That way, you can't run from Solninchny to Cherno in "3 hours", now it will take you nearly a "whole day", which is much more realistic.

[Mor (DayZ) 57]

I believe that many people clamor for extra "realism", because they want to stress PvE aspects over PvP. (or looking for more difficulty) For those I'd like to say, that IMO its the wrong way togo. Making the game harder in that respect will lead me, who usually play as neutral, to become a bandit\KoSer. I wouldn't care if you are friendly or saint, you'll be a threat/walking-supply-crate. The math will be as simple as: killing you = save me a lot of valuable time scavenging, not killing you = huge risk. (I get my social interaction on team speak with friends ) On the other hand, when they finish up improving the zombie threat(also PvE), it will gives us something todo and incentive for people to cooperate (the more of us the less of them) instead of playing sim farm eat\drink\poop.

Overall I believe that "realism" or rather real world knowledge, is crucial to build deep and varied gameplay, however, it has no place when it comes to gameplay balance. In our case, there can be no talk of gameplay balance until the zombie mechanic, in this zombie apocalypse, are finished.

ETA: Considering that the game is still WIP and being tested, the current state\mechanics seems fine to me.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Mor

[Bad Company 140]

I am a specially bio-engineered weapon of mass-destruction, whose internal nuclear reactor has to be fueled several times at every waking hour by up to five large cans of beans or several bags of uncooked rice. I am able to manipulate the elements and molecules of my own body as I fuse and reshape my bullet-shattered bones by merely slapping a stick on it or injecting a small dose of opiates.

 

I am also a demi-god, capable of retreating into my own dimension when I no longer feel the need to appear in the mortal world, aswell as being able to manifest my power and consciousness onto another person as my own mortal shell is destroyed, a mortal shell that I can ever exist outside of, hovering about six feet above it, allowing me to see over great distances and objects.

 

My stamina knowns no bounds, nor does my hunger for worldy possesions. I have spent larger part of daily suncycles sprinting across the vast lands so that I may find a knife that could fit into my boots, and I have been prepared to murder as many people as needed for me to achieve my goals. 

 

Although I am indeed a demi-god I also face dangers far beyond the comprehension of mere humans. I am always hunted by the agents of the infected, whose powers manifest by phasing through solid objects, as well as being able to use their psychic power to both see me in places where even the very hounds of Hell would give up, and to hurt my mortal body from ranges that one would think were far beyond their reach. Also, it is not only the infected who are against me; even the infrastructure of the land itself stands firm in its belief that I am the anti-christ. Several times have I been lured into buildings by the promises of tempting potatos, and far too many times have my mortal body been swallowed up by Deanür Hållür, the dark demon of the floor.

 

 

Nah, we're not quite "there" yet with the realism.

[Jex 1104]

Why the fuck would i have a flashlight in the middle of the day?

 

Yeah why is it survivors start with torches? I don't have a torch in my pocket and I don't carry one around.