Third Person View should be Over-the-Shoulder, NOT a bird's eye view.

[Accolyte 1727]

Cleaned again. This is your final warning, you two. I will send both of you on vacation if you derail this thread (or any other) one more time.

 

If you have personal issues with one another, solve them through PMs.

 

Regards,

 

Acco

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Dslyecxi made a great video about the issues between 1pp and 3pp and the clear advantages that 3pp gives.

 

[evil koala 22]

I could equally say that 80% disagree with "The over the shoulder option". The option with the greatest number of votes on the poll is clearly "Leave it alone." :|

 

Separate the votes into "Wants 3PP changed" and "Doesn't want 3PP changed" and the majority of voters want it changed. The method used to make said change is irrelevant to that point. The discussion of what changes should be made is only appropriate once it's established that a change should be made at all. If you go off of the poll numbers, a change is in order. And the majority of the majority (47% of the 52.17%) of players actually feel that 3PP should be removed entirely.

 

The data you present to support your opinion in fact directly contradicts it.

[threedogification 41]

I've played many play styles in 3pp and 1pp and I've noticed that a bandit play style is far easier in 3pp than in 1pp. I agree with the over the shoulder hot key, it would give it a more limited 3pp to add more realism. Dayz is supposed to be a gritty, realistic survival, not a game that I can swing my camera around the corner and have the drop on someone without even exposing myself

[Karmaterror 982]

You know what all you guys that are complaining about 3pp.....should get together, chip in for a 1pp server (or just pick one) and voila problem soled.....you all playing in a populated 1st only server, and because you all gonna go back to it will remain that way. 

 

What I mean is instead of trying to change the way other people play find a constructive way to play the way you want to. If my servers were empty id make threads with good populated 1pp server lists. Not come along and say screw half the player base, make them play my way, because I consider 3pp *insert whatever derogatory, propaganda sounding, kid in a tantrum slur you wish*.

 

I suggest and endorse a another screen like the alpha disclaimer upon joining 3pp servers with a disclaimer saying something like...

 

WARNING!

 

You are attempting to enter a 3pp enabled server. This means people can play in the 3rd person perspective and all changes to gameplay associated with that view apply. If you do not wish to play on a 3pp enabled server we have provided 1st person only servers.

 

 

Dslyecxi made a great video about the issues between 1pp and 3pp and the clear advantages that 3pp gives.

 

 

I swear the extra 360 of your posts are all that vid lol ;)

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

You know what all you guys that are complaining about 3pp.....should get together, chip in for a 1pp server (or just pick one) and voila problem soled.....you all playing in a populated 1st only server, and because you all gonna go back to it will remain that way. 

 

What I mean is instead of trying to change the way other people play find a constructive way to play the way you want to. If my servers were empty id make threads with good populated 1pp server lists. Not come along and say screw half the player base, make them play my way, because I consider 3pp *insert whatever derogatory, propaganda sounding, kid in a tantrum slur you wish*.

 

I suggest and endorse a another screen like the alpha disclaimer upon joining 3pp servers with a disclaimer saying something like...

 

WARNING!

 

You are attempting to enter a 3pp enabled server. This means people can play in the 3rd person perspective and all changes to gameplay associated with that view apply. If you do not wish to play on a 3pp enabled server we have provided 1st person only servers.

 

 

 

I swear the extra 360 of your posts are all that vid lol  ;)

That's probably the second time I've used it,,,,,,,,,,  <_<

 

Don't confuse me with Gibonez

[Karmaterror 982]

That's probably the second time I've used it,,,,,,,,,,  <_<

 

Don't confuse me with Gibonez

 

Haha fair play, probs me getting confused

 

Jus it gets posted in any thread with 3pp in the title....sometimes multiple times lol

[Briljin 102]

Separate the votes into "Wants 3PP changed" and "Doesn't want 3PP changed" and the majority of voters want it changed.

 

Well that is only if you include the camp that thinks 3pp should be removed all together.  If you only include those that want 3pp but thing it needs to be changed, it is a little more than half those that think 3pp is fine as it is.  Seeing saying something needs to be changed isn't the same as saying something shouldn't exist.

 

The funny thing about numbers, if your willing to twist them enough you can use them to prove anything.  Hell I could say that according to that poll we should remove 1pp because nearly 75% of the player base doesn't like it.

[evil koala 22]

Well that is only if you include the camp that thinks 3pp should be removed all together.  If you only include those that want 3pp but thing it needs to be changed, it is a little more than half those that think 3pp is fine as it is.  Seeing saying something needs to be changed isn't the same as saying something shouldn't exist.

 

The funny thing about numbers, if your willing to twist them enough you can use them to prove anything.  Hell I could say that according to that poll we should remove 1pp because nearly 75% of the player base doesn't like it.

 

You would make a fine politician, my friend.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Separate the votes into "Wants 3PP changed" and "Doesn't want 3PP changed" and the majority of voters want it changed.

But "changing" third person view wouldn't at all affect the "There should be no 3rd person option" voters. I mean, yes, removing 3rd person from the game would be different than it is now, but it's still not the same as revising it to make it work better.

 

Either way, this poll is hardly representative of the entire community... yeah, you can get a half decent idea about it, but with only around ~200 voters from one area of the community in an entire game of thousands of players, you simply cannot say that it's accurate data.

Which is why, honestly, the best idea is to leave it up to individual server admins to judge how they want to run their game;1st person/3rd person, 1st person only, or even 3rd person only, doesn't matter to me. Y

 

ou can cry about how "buuuuuuuuuuut hardly anyone plays 1pp servers"... but, tough luck; there are plenty of people that do, and it wouldn't at all be more worthwhile to try and force an arguably larger percentile of the community to play one style simply because someone wants more people to play with.

[evil koala 22]

But "changing" third person view wouldn't at all affect the "There should be no 3rd person option" voters. I mean, yes, removing 3rd person from the game would be different than it is now, but it's still not the same as revising it to make it work better.

 

Either way, this poll is hardly representative of the entire community... yeah, you can get a half decent idea about it, but with only around ~200 voters from one area of the community in an entire game of thousands of players, you simply cannot say that it's accurate data.

Which is why, honestly, the best idea is to leave it up to individual server admins to judge how they want to run their game;1st person/3rd person, 1st person only, or even 3rd person only, doesn't matter to me. Y

 

ou can cry about how "buuuuuuuuuuut hardly anyone plays 1pp servers"... but, tough luck; there are plenty of people that do, and it wouldn't at all be more worthwhile to try and force an arguably larger percentile of the community to play one style simply because someone wants more people to play with.

 

Ok, lets break it down barney style. That poll is two questions rolled into one. Separate the questions in the most simple form possible; 

 

1) "Do something?" vs "Leave it alone?"

You have to decide if something needs to be done at all before addressing what to do.

 

2) If "Do something?", then "Do what?"

If something does need to be done, then what should be done?

 

The majority want "Do something?". And the majority of that majority want 3PP removed by a very small margin. No twisting the facts or subjective interpretation. That's just what the numbers say.

 

I agree though that 200 votes may not accurately represent the DayZ population. And in the end, it really doesn't matter anyway as I'm sure BI are working to a plan that won't be changed because of anything posted in this thread. 

Edited November 20, 2014 by Evil Koala

[Judopunch 523]

Ok, lets break it down barney style. That poll is two questions rolled into one. Separate the questions in the most simple form possible; 

 

1) "Do something?" vs "Leave it alone?"

You have to decide if something needs to be done at all before addressing what to do.

 

2) If "Do something?", then "Do what?"

If something does need to be done, then what should be done?

 

The majority want "Do something?". And the majority of that majority want 3PP removed by a very small margin. No twisting the facts or subjective interpretation. That's just what the numbers say.

 

I agree though that 200 votes may not accurately represent the DayZ population. And in the end, it really doesn't matter anyway as I'm sure BI are working to a plan that won't be changed because of anything posted in this thread. 

I like  you.

[Judopunch 523]

 

I AM NOT ARGUING THAT THE THIRD PERSON VIEW IS UNFAIR. IT IS NOT UNFAIR. IT IS PERFECTLY 100% FAIR.

 

I disagree with this the most. I think this is WHY it needs to be changed. As someone brought up if you are on the hospital roof you have a massively unfair advantage to anyone not on a higher elevation then you.

 

Thats just one really clear example of why it needs to be changed. In this game death is a HUGE setback and to give that kind of unequivocal power to someone who just lays down on a roof with god-cam activated is just not fun.

[alsmir 255]

On topic:

I've never liked over the shoulder camera and I'd rather play on 1pp only if I have to choose between those 2.

 

Close to the topic:

There were times when I chose to play on 1pp servers only. I've never had issues with finding one. Sure there are some low pop 1pp servers but there are also ones that are almost full. I absolutely don't see how the existence of 3pp servers affects 1pp ones.

 

Just one extra thing.

Lets say that peeking is like a wallhack and should be considered cheating. If someone can use it on 1pp - he's cheating, simple as that.

 

Now, we also have the other kind of servers, they have some weird settings - by default wallhack is enabled for every player on those servers. You can turn it off (stay in 1p) but everyone can use it against you anyway. That sounds outrageous, servers full of cheaters, any reasonable person should stay on 1pp servers and never use those cheats avaiable on 3pp.

Unfortunatelly, for some reason, people either don't mind those wallhacks on 3pp or maybe even like them? Gotta admit, if everyone on 3pp has access to that cheat it creates an even playing field. Nobody is better, since everyone has the same advantage.

What if this changes how those people perceive those wallhacks? What if for them it's not a cheat but a feature of 3pp servers?

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Ok, lets break it down barney style. That poll is two questions rolled into one. Separate the questions in the most simple form possible; 

 

1) "Do something?" vs "Leave it alone?"

You have to decide if something needs to be done at all before addressing what to do.

 

2) If "Do something?", then "Do what?"

If something does need to be done, then what should be done?

 

The majority want "Do something?". And the majority of that majority want 3PP removed by a very small margin. No twisting the facts or subjective interpretation. That's just what the numbers say.

But that's false correlation, because it operates under the assumption that removal would be the best option since the largest SUB-group of the lower three options picked it.

Most of the crowd in the two middle groups wouldn't necessarily want the option removed from the game, hence why they picked one of those two options, so don't try and argue that the majority voted to get rid of it... that's not at all what is being said.

Otherwise I could just as easily turn it around to; "Keep 3rd Person in the Game" and "Get Rid of It" and you'd see that by an even larger margin people wanted or could at least tolerate 3rd person existing in some form in DayZ.

 

Only the majority of the minority want 3PP removed, not the actual majority.

[evil koala 22]

 

I like  you.

 

brofist

 

But that's false correlation, because it operates under the assumption that removal would be the best option since the largest SUB-group of the lower three options picked it.

Most of the crowd in the two middle groups wouldn't necessarily want the option removed from the game, hence why they picked one of those two options, so don't try and argue that the majority voted to get rid of it... that's not at all what is being said.

Otherwise I could just as easily turn it around to; "Keep 3rd Person in the Game" and "Get Rid of It" and you'd see that by an even larger margin people wanted or could at least tolerate 3rd person existing in some form in DayZ.

 

Only the majority of the minority want 3PP removed, not the actual majority.

 

To use your wording, it operates under the assumption that if "Do something?" (ie. Do ANYTHING to change the game) is true (ie. is the majority), then the largest SUB-group of the "Do something?" votes is the majority of that majority.

 

"Keep 3PP in game" vs "Get rid of it" combines the two questions to cherry pick data with intent to ignore 24% of the votes. That's not how it works. You don't get to ignore data because it doesn't fit your agenda, unless you're a politician.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Evil Koala

[Briljin 102]

The majority want "Do something?". And the majority of that majority want 3PP removed by a very small margin. No twisting the facts or subjective interpretation. That's just what the numbers say.

 

Twist and twist, keep twisting those numbers until they support your point of view.  Clearly those that voted that 3pp should be changed (which I was one of) would never side with the camp that says it should be removed.  So while they both support a change, it is clearly not the same change.  Removing a play style is not the same as fixing a "bug" with that play style.  Like I said, I could easily look at these results and say that we should remove 1pp because clearly the vast majority of players don't like it!  The numbers clearly show that, who cares if that isn't the actually intent expressed.

[Evil Minion 943]

I am pretty sure the majority of the DayZ players wants to have the third person mode available. And I am also pretty sure that the majority of DayZ players would find the game more enjoyable without peeking - because thats what gives you:

• campers waiting around corners to kill players who had zero chance to spot them
• snipers on huge buildings that use peeking to find their targets without getting spotted themselves
• Mikado-"firefights" where everyone is peeking because taking an action would break invisibility and net an advantage to your enemy
• suppression not working as people can see everything from cover without exposing themselves to fire
• increased paranoia because it is completely impossible to spot certain dangers beforehand
• ...

Some might think it is only a minor issue but it has massive implications on gameplay. Peeking favors campers over active fighters, height over horizontal cover and predator over prey. And if they decide to implement more advanced ballistics (especially bullets penetrating some walls) and fix grenade throwing its only getting worse - have fun getting hit by a grenade thrown by someone you could never know was there or getting shot through a wooden fence by someone on the other side who knew exactly where you were. Then come back and say its only a "minor issue" and "not worth the time spent on a fix". It definitely is.

 

"Its fair because you can do it as well" also justifies giving everyone a button that kills a random player when pressed.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Evil Minion

[evil koala 22]

Twist and twist, keep twisting those numbers until they support your point of view.  Clearly those that voted that 3pp should be changed (which I was one of) would never side with the camp that says it should be removed.  So while they both support a change, it is clearly not the same change.  Removing a play style is not the same as fixing a "bug" with that play style.  Like I said, I could easily look at these results and say that we should remove 1pp because clearly the vast majority of players don't like it!  The numbers clearly show that, who cares if that isn't the actually intent expressed.

 

I don't need to. The numbers speak for themselves. The fact that the results of the poll coincides with my personal opinion is purely coincidental. A few more votes in the "Over the shoulder 3PP" bucket will make that option the overall majority. Twelve more votes in the "Leave it alone" bucket will make that the overall majority. So if you want the numbers to tell the story you want told, convince people to vote that way.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Evil Koala

[jimgun 64]

I don't need to. The numbers speak for themselves. The fact that the results of the poll coincides with my personal opinion is purely coincidental. A few more votes in the "Over the shoulder 3PP" bucket will make that option the overall majority. Twelve more votes in the "Leave it alone" bucket will make that the overall majority. So if you want the numbers to tell the story you want told, convince people to vote that way.

 

If it was not a 4 way poll but a 2 way poll by considering it like this then.....

 

If more people vote this way then...

 

You are all about the ifs and buts friend.

 

More people voted in this poll to leave it as it is. That is an undeniable fact. I await your various translations and interpretations on this well worn argument with interest. They amuse me. :thumbsup:

[evil koala 22]

If it was not a 4 way poll but a 2 way poll by considering it like this then.....

 

If more people vote this way then...

 

You are all about the ifs and buts friend.

 

More people voted in this poll to leave it as it is. That is an undeniable fact. I await your various translations and interpretations on this well worn argument with interest. They amuse me. :thumbsup:

 

I'm going to reuse your statement. Lets see if you can follow along..

 

Given:

95 people vote they don't candy

43 people vote they like Snickers

16 people vote they like Kitkat

47 people vote they like Gobstoppers

 

"More people voted in this poll that they don't like candy. That is an undeniable fact".

 

While the statement is true given the structure of the poll, you say this implying that the majority of voters don't like candy, which is not true.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Evil Koala

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Who cares about the damn poll.  Fact of the matter is 3pp wall peeking is an issue and needs to be fixed.  It causes an unbalanced gameplay and favours the wall peekers immensely.  People have come of with solutions but of course get immediately shot down by the wall peekers. The only thing the poll shows is that a small handful like having a huge advantage over others and can't play on the same level.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Caboose187

[jimgun 64]

Who cares about the damn poll.  Fact of the matter is 3pp wall peeking is an issue and needs to be fixed.  It causes an unbalanced gameplay and favours the wall peekers immensely.  People have come of with solutions but of course get immediately shot down by the wall peekers. The only thing the poll shows is that a small handful like having a huge advantage over others and can't play on the same level.

 

There are servers that let you play with others in 1pp so you can be on the "same level".

 

@koala nice, changing the question yet again.

 

Done with this thread until the next one goads me into replying. Circle away, until the next time.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

There are servers that let you play with others in 1pp so you can be on the "same level".

 

@koala nice, changing the question yet again.

 

Done with this thread until the next one goads me into replying. Circle away, until the next time.

Again, not everyone plays 1pp only servers.  Some people play with friends on 3pp in 1pp mode.

[evil koala 22]

There are servers that let you play with others in 1pp so you can be on the "same level".

 

@koala nice, changing the question yet again.

 

Done with this thread until the next one goads me into replying. Circle away, until the next time.

 

Logic is hard. Better take a break. Maybe grab a snickers. :P