September Rant Topic.

[scriptfactory 620]

It's funny. I was looking at some of my old Reddit posts and I realize I have always been cynical of the DayZ development schedule.

• In January 2014 I made comments to the effect of "stability issues should be worked on before adding new features." Without a stable foundation, I said, in 6 months we will still have zombies walking through walls. I was downvoted.
• In February 2014 I wrote that people were bored of playing the same deathmatch over and over again. I wondered when the survival components would be added to the game. I was told item persistence was around the corner and immediately after that world containers would be added.
• Also in February 2014, Rocketgate happened. The whole "fundamentally flawed" fiasco where people were like "but I thought you liked the deathmatch part of DayZ" and Rocket was like, "Nah, I actually would prefer if gameplay was different but it is too late to change that now." http://www.reddit.com/r/dayz/comments/1ysdow/dean_hall_to_leave_bohemia_and_step_down_as/cfngptn
• In March 2014 I wondered when item persistence was coming. I also said, "fix the zombies, please!" Rocket said, "Soon. The work is almost done."
• In May 2014 I wrote that I wondered when item persistence was coming. At this point many people were complaining about the slow progress of the game. All of my friends had stopped playing. Everyone was bored. http://www.reddit.com/r/dayz/comments/25cprb/updates_whats_happening_developement_seems_to/

I think my problem with the project all along has been the fact that we have been told repeatedly that certain aspects of the game would be finished soon, or on a specific date, and it has rarely, if ever, happened. When people create expectations based on the promises of a game developer and are repeatedly disappointed I believe it can lead to a negative outlook on the development process, whether or not that negative outlook is justified.

[scriptfactory 620]

Anyone who knows anything about game development knows that they do not fix bugs in games during the alpha unless it's completely stopping everyone from playing, such as start up crashing, or things along those lines. The point of the Alpha is to pump in as much content as possible, and then the beta is to add in some more, and THEN start fixing and optimizing.

 

This is not true.

Edited September 5, 2014 by scriptfactory

[q.S Sachiel 470]

It's funny. I was looking at some of my old Reddit posts and I realize I have always been cynical of the DayZ development schedule.

 

...*dates and expectations*

 

I think my problem with the project all along has been the fact that we have been told repeatedly that certain aspects of the game would be finished soon, or on a specific date, and it has rarely, if ever, happened. When people create expectations based on the promises of a game developer and are repeatedly disappointed I believe it can lead to a negative outlook on the development process, whether or not that negative outlook is justified.

 

Most of those issues related to persistance, and I believe it was released in August/July 2014, that's 6 months from your query.  Global item storage was intruduced alongside persistance (both need to be updated and fixed etc still but...).  I think i purchased around Dec13 / Feb14 and while it does seem like not that much has really changed (i still stick to SKS and all that jazz) i can identify that changes have happened and are available albeit in broken states should i wish to hunt them out.

Your prediction of zombies walking through walls, OK i'll pay that, but we can admit that they now rarely run 'through walls'?  Fences and doors are another issue.  At least they are a threat inside, and don't go into slo-mo walking indoors, though right?  AND when they come inside, we can actually stand a chance to kill them, right?

Rocketgate, i don't know enough about really, but what does it matter if ultimately nothing has changed?  I think BI's smart enough to stick to the 'core' of DayZ, and allow for mod-support to let people tailor it to their will upon completion.  Having a 'The Hunt' with zombies would just be a failure, and piss too many people off (more than now).

Although your points mostly revolved around similar/related issues, it seems as though all your requests have been delivered at once (once again, in an unfinished state).  This delivery took ~6months plus whatever they had before you asked the question.  Doesn't seem too bad to me, given the other stuff we've got too and the impact some of these changes have/will have (hopefully).

[scriptfactory 620]

Although your points mostly revolved around similar/related issues, it seems as though all your requests have been delivered at once (once again, in an unfinished state).  This delivery took ~6months plus whatever they had before you asked the question.  Doesn't seem too bad to me, given the other stuff we've got too and the impact some of these changes have/will have (hopefully).

You are correct. It isn't that bad. It is my expectation of progress that is making it so. Before you read the next part I will add a disclaimer: The following is only my personal experience with development and some genuinely objective criticism of  a game development schedule gone awry.

Personal experience: My team is now working on a new user management platform and the concept alone took 3 months. But after we created the concept we consistently meet our deadlines because we 1) are all experienced developers, 2) we make realistic deadlines and 3) we have a real plan. We didn't take a list of features that we would like to implement, we created a complete concept first and then implemented it step-by-step.

Criticism: I think my point is, I don't believe the DayZ devs are horrible but Rocket said he has been working on SA for 3 years. Did he not realize the rendering engine was broken before then? Shouldn't the project basis be completed before working on feature development? In my personal opinion, secondary gameplay elements (hunting, cooking, fishing, bow/arrow crafting, compass lids, etc.) should have been added AFTER the core game elements (item persistence, loot respawn, global economy, barricading and base building) were finished.

I think the roadmap itself is flawed: http://imgur.com/a/CDb92

[benedictus 160]

In my personal opinion, secondary gameplay elements (hunting, cooking, fishing, bow/arrow crafting, compass lids, etc.) should have been added AFTER the core game elements (item persistence, loot respawn, global economy, barricading and base building) were finished.

 

Thats true but they arent taking the usual steps to create a game, they already had the idea and the engine. Problem is that the engine doesnt  meet the needs of the idea.

 

Stuff like hunting, fishing, compass lids (wut?) they are all relatively easy to add comparing to item persistence, loot spawn or zombie pathfinding. And thats because the engine wasnt really planned to do the latter. But in the beginning, the were no millions. Now there are and general butthurt is real.

 

This topic (and general mentality here) though.. I think you get more open minded conversation in religious debates between atheists and believers.

Edited September 5, 2014 by BENEDICTUS

[Demoth 366]

This is not true.

 

Well, that's literally been every experience I've had with every game I've helped Alpha and Beta test.

[scriptfactory 620]

compass lids (wut?)

 

Do you remember this video? 

[kichilron 8550]

first, of all, Have you ever asked yourself the salary of the mods on this forum? Which i kepts screens about some of their trolls and offensive contents around against users (costumers on my language)? Guess not, and i keep them for when it will be the moment to.... They are employers to the company anyway and the front office to the costumers.

If my secretary on the front office would go to troll over a guest or a costumer i would fire her immidiently.

 

 

This one paragraph alone shows me that you haven't even read this thread. I have talked about this already and explained that we're not receiving any money for this and that we're part of the community ourselves, originating from the Mod, which didn't make any money anyway (actually, we as volunteers spent a lot of money on website and servers back when it was a mod without ever getting anything back.)

 

We are no employees, especially noone's secretary. I do not owe you anything, you didn't pay me anything, you're not my customer. I have no obligation to even talk to you, nor do I have to do this in a professional manner and you have no right whatsoever to stay in this Forum just because you bought the product - as this is a community Forum and we can kick you out whenever we want to.

 

This is actually what I will do right now, verbally warn you and kick you out of this thread, as it is clear that you are one of those people I have already been talking about in this thread and the fact that you didn't even read the thread and merely came in here to spout out your random lies about the game-development doesn't feel like you're taking any of this seriously nor that you are even interested in the game. You just want to cause troubles. You now have the chance to leave without troubles. Take this chance.

[GunnyITA 107]

I've read the thread, i've stated my points plus other things and ok, I went a bit OT.

 

But i'm hardly beleive that on this platform, that is the offical forum of the game, you are just part of the communty with admin powers.

 

From the life i've learnt that no one doing something for free. That's just my logical point of view

Edited September 5, 2014 by GunnyITA

[benedictus 160]

Do you remember this video? 

 

Hah, no, but I do now!

[GhostDivision (DayZ) 22]

-snip

 

I think comparing Dayz devs to AAA developers is a bit of a stretch as they've proven to be anything but "AAA".

 

Look at the game "Insurgency". Made by the indie company "New World Interactive" - aka couple of guys making it in their spare time - the game has advanced LEAPS since its early release. It's basically a whole different, polished and functioning game.

 

Stop making it out as if DayZ is using some brand-new shining engine... It's based on the same old crappy (sorry but true) unreliable RV engine that has always been plagued with problems. Yes the engine is now heavily modified, but, it is not a brand new thing.

[GhostDivision (DayZ) 22]

Do you remember this video? 

 

Nov 2013 - almost a year and there's very little in the way of change. If someone uploaded this video today you'd probably think it was brand new.

[kichilron 8550]

From the life i've learnt that no one doing something for free. That's just my logical point of view

 

 

What a poor and sad life that must have been.

[GhostDivision (DayZ) 22]

What a poor and sad life that must have been.

 

....

 

 

Comments like these are non-constructive and rather inutile. If you consider what he said to be bullshit, then elaborate upon why you think so. 

 

That goes for everyone.

 

 

I would think Inception's comment applies here.

Edited September 5, 2014 by GhostDivision

[GunnyITA 107]

What a poor and sad life that must have been.

 

screend, good and professional reply from a staff member.

Remember that if (means all staff members, not you in particular) BE receive a complaint for how do you operate, BE will reply to me but they will go to pull the ear to you, and the reason is that you are employers.

Take it as a my "supposition", I'm free to think at it, and as an italian proverb says: "The supposition is the mother of all shits" because i don't have any prove for it, and all my words are flying to the wind.

 

I'm enough self critic to state my point and offend by myself

 

Peace and Love.

 

 

Now... Back to the TOPIC.

 

I'm quite sure if there is gonna be a poll that shows us the percentage about "Rant Players" and "Game is going fine", by looking at the numbers of growing posts and comply, i will  say that the percentage of rant players won't be below the 30% ...and it's percentage that can't be ignored that much.

Then adding also some questions to answer with YES or NO about the current development.

 

These informations might help to provide on taking initiative about the direction to take. These methods are used also by big multinational corporation for market survey

Edited September 5, 2014 by GunnyITA

[boneboys 7988]

Look at the game "Insurgency". Made by the indie company "New World Interactive" - aka couple of guys making it in their spare time - the game has advanced LEAPS since its early release. It's basically a whole different, polished and functioning game.

 

Jeremy Blum has been working since 2003 (iirc) to get his game recognised.

He was one of the original Devs of Red Orchestra before John Gibson took over as lead coder after leaving the America's Army coding team.

Blum is now using the Source Engine after many years of UnrealEd coding and a brief attempt exploring CryEngine.

 

All credits to Mr Blum for his tenacity and endurance but comparing Insurgency development in the manner that you have chosen to that of DayZ holds no credit.

 

I do however recommend the latest Insurgency although the Source Engine is somewhat limited even when code is re-written.

[scriptfactory 620]

What a poor and sad life that must have been.

 

Off-topic: Intrinsic rewards aren't really discussed or seen as important in many societies/cultures. Nothing "poor and sad" about that apart from the fact that capitalism itself places such a strong emphasis on extrinsic rewards.

[boneboys 7988]

Oh,,,, stop ranting all of you and stay on Topic...

[GunnyITA 107]

Oh,,,, stop ranting all of you and stay on Topic...

 

but...it's the semptember Rant topic, as title says it's about rants!...what the?! If you were about to made us laugh you made it :D!

 

...Friendly don't shoot :o

Edited September 5, 2014 by GunnyITA

[dgeesio 1034]

must say the troll baited all 2nd post and pulled in a sea full of sprats :lol:

 

 

theres no point in moaning about anything the game was launched with a get out clause in red capitals. now anything that doesnt work doesnt matter as its alpha.

 

the real funny thing is even though hes blatantly trolling hes absolutely right which does kind of make it funny.

 

alpha in mod for two years then we going to make SA to solve all the mod issues and make it better now in alpha

 

maybe this game should be called alphaZ.

 

 

the core basics arnt fixed yet. they are the things that should of been fixed first few months nevermind nearly a year later and no real progress.

 

FPS issues still

Zombies still go through objects walls as always

Desync

Bad performance

 

lack of real content.

 

this game wont be done for 2 years yet if it does get finished at all.

[Grimey Rick 3417]

The game is awesome, has massive potential, but has normal, alpha-related bugs. Deal with it.

Fuck the disclaimer. Use common sense. They're making a video game. They're constantly adding shit to it, which is what the alpha stage/label of the process denotes.

The bug fixes will come in beta. That is the industry standard. There's no conspiracy at work. No voodoo magic. This is all very normal.

I would agree with you that it's definitely taking longer than anticipated by the staff and community to get where we are today, but it'll get there. You only paid $30 for a $60 game that you'll have full access to upon release.

So in the meantime, enjoy your discount, play the game when you can "stand" to do so, and shut the fuck up.

Cheers.

[ChainReactor 922]

(...)

 

the core basics arnt fixed yet. they are the things that should of been fixed first few months nevermind nearly a year later and no real progress.

 

FPS issues still

Zombies still go through objects walls as always

Desync

Bad performance

 

 

The underlined things you've mentioned are anything but no core basics but rather subject to final optimization, which is clearly not a hot topic during alpha, at least not in this still early stage. We did however already have patches that gave noticable performance improvements, which imo was due to the implementation of the newly hard-coded features of the engine.

 

That being said, Zombies are one of the biggest project within the development of this game, and they are heavily working on it. Read around a bit on reddit and the forums and you will see how many things belong to "the zombies" ( navmesh, collision, sensors, animations, melee.... ) and that most of the work takes place "under the hood" by now. It shouldn't be hard to imagine that it takes quite a while to create a working AI system from scratch.

[RAM-bo4250 213]

I've stopped playing DayZ for several months, mainly because after I had my fun, the bugs and de-sync were really causing more frustration that fun. I still get on, see what's new, and fill out bug report tickets.

 

The thing is, this game warned me EXPLICITLY that it was an Alpha, was going to have tons of issues, and there was a LOT of posting that the game would not even enter beta stage until early 2015.

 

Anyone who knows anything about game development knows that they do not fix bugs in games during the alpha unless it's completely stopping everyone from playing, such as start up crashing, or things along those lines. The point of the Alpha is to pump in as much content as possible, and then the beta is to add in some more, and THEN start fixing and optimizing.

 

The fact no one understands this baffles me. So much more has been added since the alpha first dropped, and people either ignore it, or continue to whine it's not enough. I do not like to insult, but anyone crying about it is simply a whiny brat, or has no idea how these things work.

 

Does this mean the game will launch on time and be perfect? Probably not. RElease dates get pushed back ALL THE TIME. Is it possible that this game could come out a piece of crap? Sure, that happens too, and it's a risk we all took when we signed onto this little project.

 

But the amount of moaning and crying on these forums is not only non-constructive, it's just tiresome.

 

I also want to give you a big handshake of respect. You saw the facts and decided to leave it for awhile. That is a complete mature and intelligent response to something you have no control over. You have my beans, my peaches (my fav ingame) and my nice shiny fireaxe. See you in Chernarus.

I feel for you man. But it's no use. These people are either ignorant or trollish. 

 

Ignorance because given the facts they still refuse to understand. Let me explain. Suppose a company decides to make a frying pan. That frying pan is made out of metal. The metal for the pan is made into a blank for each pan. Ignorance is when you look at that blank and expect it to act like a frying pan.

 

If they do understand the fact but only state things to incite or inflame that is trollish.

 

I don't know which is at work here. Probably more trollish because I can't believe people would be this ignorant. Feeding the trolls has become irksome for me.

Edited September 5, 2014 by RAM-bo4250

[GunnyITA 107]

http://feedback.dayzgame.com/view.php?id=247

 

 

Said by Accolyte:

 

"Hey folks!

Just to alleviate some concerns, we have identified a problem with geometry of some buildings that might be causing drops in freamerates. We are currently working on a fix.

Please note that we do monitor high profile issues like this one all the time, even when not responding immediately."

 

2014 - 03 - 03

 

 

And then Dean:

 

"Will be reviewed with new renderer implementation. We expect that with a new lodding system, and optimizations from DX10/11 this problem will largely be resolved.

No target date for implementation, but expect it to be months not weeks. "

 

2014-05-19

 

 

 

So then....March, April, May, June, July, August, September (cause FPS won't fix neither in this september update) ....6 month have been passed, Are they are currently working in?

And how do they think to optimize the game on dx10/11 as it is running badly on DX9? That is lighter! Do you think people beleive in the fables?

Edited September 5, 2014 by GunnyITA

[WhiteZero 72]

And how do they think to optimize the game on dx10/11 as it is running badly on DX9? That is lighter! Do you think people beleive in the fables?

 

"Lighter"? Say what? DX10/11 have more efficient rendering paths to hardware, and are able to take better advantage of modern hardware, compared to DX9.

 

EDIT: Some reading material: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct3D#Direct3D_10

Lots of pipeline and rendering improvements with DX10/11

Edited September 5, 2014 by WhiteZero