Duping, Server Hopping, and Exploiting- The Mild Cases and the Bad Cases

[hannibaldaplaya 1095]

I've been playing DayZ for a while. A lot of times, I play with friends.

 

When playing with these friends, I get to know how they play. Sometimes they are on full population servers, all the time, hardcore mode, that kind of stuff. Others force me to get on a low population server for boring loot sessions with them. Others take me and others to airfields and try to get us to server hop repeatedly with them. Some even offer me duplicated guns from an exploitable bug.

 

Are they bad people?

 

No, not at all. The only dupers I met were randoms who were friendly to me. Of course, I didn't accept their duped weapons, and wasn't supportive of it, but they didn't shoot me on sight. Though they did talk about sniping at Elektro with the long range scope mosins they had duplicated, which pissed me off to a certain extent.

 

But other then this, where they bad people? Where they scum? Not really. Sure, the dupers who used the dupe gear to kill freshspawns on the coast, yeah, they aren't necessarily valuable members of the community.

 

But the server hoppers? Most of the time, its just people pissed off that loot won't respawn who don't want to run for a few hours to get stuff. Of course, this is usually with the mildest of server hoppers. People who hop once or twice and then stop. The people who insist on hopping more then ten times for gear? Most of the time, they're only in it to hoard ammunition, accessories, etc.

 

Server hopping is a rather common thing, even if you only do it once. The lack of loot respawn can push people to do it when they find an area that was probably looted 2 hours ago.

 

The number of server hoppers will drop when loot respawn is added.

 

The number of dupers will drop when the glitches are patched.

 

But the question is, should anyone even be doing this? Especially when they use this advantage against other players?

 

In my opinion, duping and then using the duped ammunition or guns to kill other, friendly or freshly spawned players is just a dick move.

 

What about you guys?

[AzrailCross 48]

 

What about you guys?

 

Plain and simple it's a dick move. Duping/Exploiting should - even in Alpha - be a 100% Alpha/Beta ban at the least potentially a lifetime ban no matter how you look at it. Period.

 

Sure, first time you DISCOVER a exploit if you go and report it properly and never use it again, and get rid of the profits from it. Sure, awesome. You've done your job as an Alpha tester. Meanwhile abusing a glitch to gain an advantage over others is just wrong and encourages other people to leave - people that might have been great testers that'd have garnered major improvements and feedback in the long run.

 

I can't even condone Hero's using exploits of any form, it's a little less of a kick to the mouth knowing they are at least making the game more enjoyable and help others establish themselves but it still ends up being abusive to some one down the line in one way or another, even if it's by someone else seeing the exploit and spreading it further to others; it's just -wrong- to do no matter how you look at it, no matter how little or how much it helps you or others. If it's not suppose to be in the game it should be reported and never used.

Edited April 1, 2014 by AzrailCross

[hrdrok 183]

...potentially a lifetime ban plain and simple. 

 

 

Really? You have alpha/beta testers for a reason. Not to mention nearly 90% of the players in game have duped (most didn't even realize it). It's glitches and bugs. It will get fixed.

 

Now hacks on the other hand...

[Snivel 12]

Well, I just think duping kills the spirit of Dayz, which is survival, immersion and a little touch of roleplay. If i want to get instantly geared and start a team deathmatch (i like to, sometimes) i go play another fps. What is the point duping equipement in a game which one of the most important mechanic is looting and actually finding your gear ? Apart from ruining legit players day i don't see anything else.

 

Server hopping however is a different thing. Myself when i happen to find an entirely looted town in a highly populated server i tend to switch to a lower populated one. I'm not proud of that, but as you said once loot respawning will be added there won't be any reason hopping between servers.

[AzrailCross 48]

Really? You have alpha/beta testers for a reason. Not to mention nearly 90% of the players in game have duped (most didn't even realize it). It's glitches and bugs. It will get fixed.

 

Now hacks on the other hand...

 

Yes really, think about it this way; you paid to get into the game right, to do ALPHA testing, so the game is vulnerable and it's expected to have a bunch of bugs and exploits that'll give advantages to those that know them. As an alpha tester it's your responsibility to report those and NOT use them against other people while the dev team gets it fixed.

 

It's no different than finding out a glitch that allows you to crash a server, it's not productive, it frustrates the player base and causes people to leave/have more issues finding other bugs to report in turn harming the game in the long run. 

 

Any form of actively and knowingly exploiting from altering files to see through trees/grass/buildings, duping, to being able to hide inside the walls of buildings to garner advantages over other players and make the experience they have worse is wrong and deserving of a ban.

 

FINDING an exploit on the other hand and not actively abusing it but rather making efforts to replicate it in a controlled situation - then reporting how it's done to the dev's like your suppose to is why we're *here* and the only right thing to do. Anything else is harming the playerbase and the game's testing.

[captainvette2112 84]

Server hoping wont stop until loot respawns without server restarts... its just that simple.

 

Duping has been around forever and I dont see them doing anything to stop it.

 

I dont really care how people get geared up..... I usually KoS geared people and its all the same when you are looting their dead bodies.

[Sistinas1973 50]

I agree, not everyone is bad. I guess it depends on why you are doing what you are doing. Like you said, hopping just to kill freshies or pray on people in cities is a dick move. Although I am glad the weapon dupe is no more, I did it when it was active. I play with a buddy and when one of us found a mosin, we'd dupe it for the other person and that was the extent of it. As far as server hoppers to gear up, that really is a slippery slope. For example, I don't normally do it, but if I'm doing my thing and some KOS tard kills me without even saying hello, I just may hop a server or two to get "essential" supplies back. I don't hop just to get weapons, ammo, and military gear. I rather like the gearing up process and will normally just scrounge and be happy with it. 

 

The problem with duping/hopping is that if you start to depend on it, you really demoralize the idea of the game and sacrifice your own game play to keep doing it. 

[nexventor 429]

Duping and server hoping while being a dick move is tolerable. They are only using equipment that any other player can get and I know some people are really bad at the game or have very limited time, so for me it's a non issue at this point in the build. For me half the fun is scavenging, so they are only doing themselves an injustice. 

 

I'd rather them concentrate on real issues like hacks and adding more content.

[Rick1633 136]

What duping?    Duping was eliminated with the last patch weeks ago.       I have not seen or read about any possible way to dupe after the last patch.       If there is, it is the most guarded secret in the history of a popular game.

[Puredeath 8]

What duping?    Duping was eliminated with the last patch weeks ago.       I have not seen or read about any possible way to dupe after the last patch.       If there is, it is the most guarded secret in the history of a popular game.

They also "fixed" gearception, but its still there. Some players use it (I do actually have 3 back packs but that's just because I haven't cleaned out all the stuff I find that I think I may need. [i'm 15ish hour in and don't know what I need to keep okay that and it takes me several minutes to access my gear that I have stored away) I'm not happy that I have to use a glitch to carry extra items but when I see a pristine press vest and already have a pristine vest with like 8 slots that I use, I'm gonna find a way to keep both until I can find time to give away stuff or figure out what's worthless)

Additonaly how do you report bugs, I haven't figured out the bug reporter thing yet (I found a way to make it so you can't get out of handcuffs you can't even wiggle your way out)

[comikz 218]

Duping still exists and people still take advantage of it, I have seen many groups of players running around together with the same exact gear, moments after several of them died, so no it's not fixed.

I agree that Server hopping won't stop until they introduce some sort of Loot respawn system, even then, people will continue to hop.

Gearception is still alive and thriving, I know a decent amount of people who stack items inside of each other to gain "unreal" space for stuff...

 

I agree that all these things need to be remedied and fixed, and some sort of punishment be put in place, but banning for the rest of alpha/beta would be very close to the most severe punishment of permaban.

 

Something such as: (Not able to play any Battleye supported games, ect.)

 

3 Day Ban / 1 Week Ban / 1 Month Ban / Alpha Ban / Beta Ban / Perma-ban, ect.

[AzrailCross 48]

Duping still exists and people still take advantage of it, I have seen many groups of players running around together with the same exact gear, moments after several of them died, so no it's not fixed.

I agree that Server hopping won't stop until they introduce some sort of Loot respawn system, even then, people will continue to hop.

Gearception is still alive and thriving, I know a decent amount of people who stack items inside of each other to gain "unreal" space for stuff...

 

I agree that all these things need to be remedied and fixed, and some sort of punishment be put in place, but banning for the rest of alpha/beta would be very close to the most severe punishment of permaban.

 

Something such as: (Not able to play any Battleye supported games, ect.)

 

3 Day Ban / 1 Week Ban / 1 Month Ban / Alpha Ban / Beta Ban / Perma-ban, ect.

I'd skip past such a structured system that encourages each account to try three times and then -maybe- stop (let's face it, if your banned today and enjoy DayZ investing another $30 is nothing.) 

 

Rather a you get one warning, based on the assumption regardless of evidence that you either didn't know what you were doing was wrong, or were testing and the whole thing was a misunderstanding! ... and then Perma-ban on second offense, no questions asked. Treat the person like a hacker (whom are all perma banned at this point) and move on.

[hotcakes 348]

Listen, buddy. I come from a competitive game where staying on the bleeding edge meant using the game to its fullest. The devs were fine with it-- it only proved how they needed to pick up the pace and fix their game. I'm not going to go full retard over this, but encouraging exploitation can only be good for the game in the long run. If the devs give up and don't fix anything, it's on them, not the players that play a busted game.

 

The competitive philosophy of being undeterred by moral qualms is the way to go.

 

P.S All that exploitation in that game? It evolved into a nifty little metagame.

Edited April 2, 2014 by hotcakes

[strongtent 74]

But the question is, should anyone even be doing this? Especially when they use this advantage against other players?

 

In my opinion, duping and then using the duped ammunition or guns to kill other, friendly or freshly spawned players is just a dick move.

 

What about you guys?

To answer your question, No - people should not be doing this if they want to have a fair medium with other players in the alpha.

 

But the reality of it is loot is not fixed, and they possibly have thoughts like you described. I for one do not server hop, nor do I play currently until so, - because hoarding is pointless in general when the completed game will have a server restart and wipe all gear anyhow.

 

The other reality is there will always be people who want to harm other people, weather in a virtual world or the real world. Because people can be very ignorant, as well as uneducated in certain aspects of life.

 

I should also add that there are people who take this as a game and do not even think twice about the other person on the end of the internet. I found that fun when I was younger, kind of testing my reflexes you could say. But I enjoy the human element of games more-so.

Edited April 2, 2014 by Strongtent

[LigerRider 82]

Duping/Exploiting should - even in Alpha - be a 100% Alpha/Beta ban at the least potentially a lifetime ban no matter how you look at it. Period.

The way I see it, a glitch is something in the game. If people aren't supposed to exploit it, then the devs should fix the glitch. All glitches are fair game until fixed. Obviously not a fair way to play, and I try to stay away from that, but it's in the game, and therefore, should not be treated as if it were a hack.

[strongtent 74]

The way I see it, a glitch is something in the game. If people aren't supposed to exploit it, then the devs should fix the glitch. All glitches are fair game until fixed. Obviously not a fair way to play, and I try to stay away from that, but it's in the game, and therefore, should not be treated as if it were a hack.

It should be reported and fixed, if they cant fix it they should tell the community.

 

But people who actively go around looking for ways to fuck with people are asking for trouble.

 

If it's in the game can not be used as an excuse either, that's just shallow thinking.

[LigerRider 82]

It should be reported and fixed, if they cant fix it they should tell the community.

 

But people who actively go around looking for ways to fuck with people are asking for trouble.

 

If it's in the game can not be used as an excuse either, that's just shallow thinking.

Well yes, but once it's reported, it's out of our control to fix it, so it shouldn't be bannable. 

[Accolyte 1727]

The way I see it, a glitch is something in the game. If people aren't supposed to exploit it, then the devs should fix the glitch. All glitches are fair game until fixed. Obviously not a fair way to play, and I try to stay away from that, but it's in the game, and therefore, should not be treated as if it were a hack.

 

I definitely do not agree with this. There are other games that will ban you if you use an exploit once it was publicly acknowledged and pointed out by the company. I say this as a player, not a dev.

 

As a dev I can tell you that both item cloning and "gearception" are being worked on. We are aware of the issues.

[pilgrim* 3514]

Duping sucks - always has done

 

So-called "server hopping" : Well, how much loot can one dude carry? And how many 'low pop' servers to hop are there left? And how much loot are you going to collect 'hopping' from one high pop server to another, because high pop are the ONLY servers you can PLAY ON, now..

 

Moving from server to server NOW is for me just to TRY to log in to ANY DAMN SERVER without getting kicked, autokicked, whitelist-kicked, friends-only kicked, reset on a beach, admin-booted, etc, because HALF the DAMN servers throw you out after 10seconds to 2 mins, and you have to wait 300 secs to try to get into another one.

 

I can esily spend more time (and in the evenings, maybe much more time)  than HALF AN HOUR to even an HOUR finding a low ping server that will LET ME PLAY on it...and if I'm looking for loot (not specially)  the only loot I'd really like at the moment is a canteen. I don't want military gear, in general I usually want a axe, a sidearm or any kind of rifle, 10 rounds to go with it, any kind of backpack, a bandage and a boonie hat and IVE GOT THOSE - and MAINLY of course I want to PLAY the GAME wthout being kicked by MORE THAN HALF the servers in the damn list, because they SAY they are private, they autokick, they have LOG IN CODES, and plenty of the rest that DO NOT warn you off ARE private and autokick too.

 

So don't say 'server hopping', say trying to find SOMEWERE, just ANY SERVER where I can play the GAME

 

The Fuck-You Admins and the Private Clubs are wrecking this game REAL FAST

 

xx thanks, pilgrim

 

(yeah, and WE KNOW all dupers are dicks. The 99%of server-hoppers, who cares?

And WE KNOW 80% of Admins are dicks and killing the game).

Edited April 2, 2014 by pilgrim

[Rauchsauger 94]

I definitely do not agree with this. There are other games that will ban you if you use an exploit once it was publicly acknowledged and pointed out by the company. I say this as a player, not a dev.

 

As a dev I can tell you that both item cloning and "gearception" are being worked on. We are aware of the issues.

 

That may well be - but that is mostly after release.

Also if you have so many glitches/bugs in game that can happen by accident (glitching in/under a building, 2xprimary duping, gearception...)

you should eat humble pie.

[Accolyte 1727]

That may well be - but that is mostly after release.

Also if you have so many glitches/bugs in game that can happen by accident (glitching in/under a building, 2xprimary duping, gearception...)

you should eat humble pie.

 

Like I said, that was entirely my opinion as a player. I said that in reaction to the person who said that exploiting is fair game. I don't think people should be banned because they unintentionally glitch through the floor.

You should have some "settle down" pie. ;)

[DropBearChick 1216]

It anoys me that people are so bad at the game and lazy that they have to use bugs to do good.

[stifor 0]

Duping is bad but they need to ban all the acutal hackers first.Banning dupers could get sketchy real fast.How do you know some item you picked up off a body was duped or not?Should you get banned bacause you looted a duper and had no idea that is how they got the gear?

 

Once loot respawns with out a server restart I and many others will stop hopping.

 

I would rather they fix the bugs and glitches that allow duping than ban people for it.

[Hethwill_Khan 233]

Find the bug, replicate it for effect and specifics for the report, add it to bug tracker.

 

The User Agreement for the Alpha specifically notes that you cannot exploit, and no matter what amount of money you paid for a product, the ban should be permanent during alpha, then lifted upon release.

[Buffaloe 87]

When i started playing Dayz, I met a bunch of people who did exactly that. Server hopping / duping etc. .

 

Of course playing with them was not really fun so I quickly quit the group.

 

I gotta add that these guys were real pricks though. Not only did they server hop and dupe, they also used to befriend people to shoot them in the back 5 minutes later.

 

I don't think exploiters are necessarily bad people, but usually they also are pricks.

Edited April 2, 2014 by Buffaloe