Arma3 Third person fix mod...thoughts?

[gibonez 3633]

So if 3rd person is the the mother of all evil (lame stuff and so on) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . why don't you play on 1st person server?

 

 

See this is the common misconception.

 

People do not hate 3rd person view, in fact they have come to realize some people cant play any other mode due to motion sickness.

 

what they do hate is being seen or seeing people over and around cover when their character has absolutely no possible way to do this.

 

They also hate how detrimental it is to gameplay and how it results in people in pvp encounters just outwaiting each other out behind the safety of a wall while still having complete and utter situational awareness.

[Ken Bean 175]

See this is the common misconception.

 

People do not hate 3rd person view, in fact they have come to realize some people cant play any other mode due to motion sickness.

 

what they do hate is being seen or seeing people over and around cover when their character has absolutely no possible way to do this.

 

They also hate how detrimental it is to gameplay and how it results in people in pvp encounters just outwaiting each other out behind the safety of a wall while still having complete and utter situational awareness.

 

 

Okay so there's that guy, who can't play in 1st person. So he only can play in 3rd person. Now he goes mad because he's playing in 3rd person but he can see things he could not see if he hypothetically would play in 1st person??? Err... nope. Don't buy this.

 

I'd like to see the attest of the 3 people who can't play in 1st person - and the same time complain about the 3rd person view.

 

This, to me sounds like having really strange issues. Two things come together which in this case quadruple all problems possible.

 

 

It's just like using common sense. If I were unable to play in 1st person view, I would be like:

"Holy shit, there's 3rd person view, a.w.e.s.o.m.e!!!"

Nope, I wouldn't start complaining about "3rd person view = cheating".

Definately not.

But I indeed would think that someone who argues unfair, who desperatly tries to make every point he thinks what would be justified, who even would play this card... might come from that direction.

Edited April 18, 2014 by Ken Bean

[cels 43]

Give it a month or so and the people who want third person to keep the view advantage will be telling those who wants 3rd person to not have this ability to go play h1z1 since they are fixing this issue.

Edited April 18, 2014 by cels

[gibonez 3633]

Give it a month or so and the people who want third person to keep the view advantage will be telling those who wants 3rd person to not have this ability to go play h1z1 since they are fixing this issue.

 

h1z1 is fixing that issue.

 

good if so this puts pressure on dayz to do the same.

 

This has long been a problem and once its addressed the game play will improve hugely.

[jameslennoxhood 74]

Is there any word on the guaranteed messaging system coming to Arma 3, I feel it would really benefit from this system!!!

[xalienax 621]

Im all for this if they can get it *officially* integrated in a propper manner that doesnt result in delayed flickering/popping/etc. basicly it needs to be fully prolished and perhaps ignore terrain/vegetation for the reasons mentioned earlier with running in the woods.

 

the game needs to go FPV only on release.

 

let people "try 3pp" in the alpha as they adapt to the learning curve... then get rid of it

No people need to stop trying to make everyon play the game according to thier own vision. I will rejoice the day modders get free reign and private hives return. then i'll never have to wait for rocket to piroritize features i like, just play a mod that does (Ie clan play focus, Bases, vehicles, etc).

 

my bottom line tho; THERE IS A REASON YOU HAVE HARDCORE MODE, USE IT AND LEAVE EVERYONE ELSE ALONE. removing 3pp is a easy out for devs rather then simply changing camera position.

[gibonez 3633]

Is there any word on the guaranteed messaging system coming to Arma 3, I feel it would really benefit from this system!!!

 

Whats that.

[badluckburt 974]

Whats that.

 

Check in the code box of the first post:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?122377-dedicated-server-performance-howto

 

And some more info:

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/basic.cfg

Edited April 27, 2014 by BadLuckBurt

[gibonez 3633]

Truly cannot comprehend how this is not the #1 priority in dayz right now.

 

 

This hurts the gameplay so much more than any other broken gameplay element.

[kichilron 8550]

Truly cannot comprehend how this is not the #1 priority in dayz right now.

 

 

This hurts the gameplay so much more than any other broken gameplay element.

 

 

What are we talking about here? Still third person - you didn't quote anyone. There is the hardcore branch, if you don't fancy 3DP, so one might consider it "fixed" already.

[gibonez 3633]

What are we talking about here? Still third person - you didn't quote anyone. There is the hardcore branch, if you don't fancy 3DP, so one might consider it "fixed" already.

 

Third person view is not the problem but corner peeking is I should have been more clear.

 

Even with hardcore mode existing 3pp is still fundamentally broken because this crutch is possible.

 

I would have figured they would have atleast changed the camera to a different position as a stop gap measure to attempt to fix it.

[Bororm 1156]

Third person isn't an exploit, everyone has the same tools.  Adapt to the situation and treat blind spots as potential enemy locations.  The map is properly designed around the use of third person and there are extremely few locations where a person using third person can't also be seen by another person at some angle doing the same.

 

In short, it's an even playing ground, and the issue isn't third person but positioning something anyone can take advantage of.  Play smarter, it doesn't need to be "fixed" as nothing is broken.

Edited May 7, 2014 by Bororm

[Katana67 2907]

Rocket even commented on this solution recently, and said it's not practical/beneficial.

 

It's not just zorping people out of your view, it's zorping them out of existence for the client entirely (if I understand it correctly).

 

That and if flicking the characters in and out of existence doesn't stick out like a sore thumb, I don't know what does.

Edited May 7, 2014 by Katana67

[AzrailCross 48]

-- Reply to quite a few different posts so won't bother quoting anyone in particular :D 

 

 

"Hardcore" Mode: Hardcore mode has been mentioned repeatedly in the dev streams and the like that it is undergoing development to be more than what it is. To be truly hardcore, moreso than DayZ's standard version; so one fact comes out of this: Hardcore is not First Person Only Mode, it's HARDCORE in the sense of being harder to survive *not* just because it's first person: It's just that it SO HAPPENS to currently only allow first person. So with that said, it's not even remotely something to be considered a fix. 1PP and 3PP have got to mingle on the same mode on equal grounds, no reason to split everyone up or have one side have an advantage however slight - over another.

 

Onward!

 

Preface: I enjoy to play in both 3PP and 1PP, I like them both fairly equally across all games including this one. I usually prefer to gun people down and go through towns and cities in first person, but roam the long stretches between in third person. Over the course of playing both, for those that don't : yes being in third person has given me numerous jumps on people that I wouldn't have noticed in 1PP; plain and simple it isn't done right - and could be so much better.

 

The Issue: Third Person Perspective can see around corners without exposing the character *This is the one and only problem with Third Person Perspective, I think most every rational person will agree the only issue is the advantage of being able to see areas that cannot be seen if the person was playing in First Person. 

 

In and of itself this wouldn't be a issue to begin with.. Except those that play in first person are forced to use third person view or be at a disadvantage. No doubt more than once I'd preferred to have stayed in 1PP but knew I was far better off being able to see around the corners! I must admit hated those moments, sometimes I'm just not in the mood for 3PP, but am certainly compelled to stay alive more than I am compelled to stick to 1PP. 

 

The Fix: Alright, so now we've established that the issue is the additional sight around walls and such in Third Person Perspective, of which such ability is not required of Third Person View to make it functional. Obviously the solution, mentioned countless times; is professionally including a Line of Sight addition into DayZ that doesn't hinder those playing in Third Person at all. So what's the best way of going about obtaining line of sight in such a way it isn't confusing or breaking immersion for those who find Third Person Perspective immersing? 

 

Solution: Graying out areas that the person's player cannot see. So in Third Person Perspective you can still see the landscape, the streets and doors and buildings which still provide some hint of help to those who aren't aware of the layout of the area, but negligible as they cannot see the zombies and players unless actually exposing the head to 'look' for them (as you should have to.) In the end, such a solution would actually be rather catchy; graying out unseen areas both providing a instant recognition it's out of my line of sight and not being an eyesore. 

 

Conclusion: So once line of sight for third person perspective is implemented, what happens?  If it's coded and tested properly (Whole point of Alpha after all) both First Person players and Third Person players will both be on the exact same truly EVEN playing field; with no issues at all. If a player is in third person, he or she won't even notice the difference made, it won't be readily visible to the player most of the time, save when laying on a roof and trying to peer down on the streets without exposing his or her self and instead is looking down on  nothing but a grayed out street; or standing up against a wall trying to look around the corner again, without exposing his or her character by leaning enough to actually see around it. 

 

Now - Where in my prior statements am I wrong, where exactly is third person view destroyed by this; I play enough in 3PP and not only see no flaws with it; it'd actually look and feel more natural - not worse - save for the obvious no flying camera around corner's advantage.

 

Before it's brought up, I'll be upfront with a few answer's I've had to say before in prior posts and likely in this one if I don't go ahead and get it over with...

 

Yes, it'll probably start out with bugs! That's the point of Alpha is to get such features in and polish them.

Yes, it'll likely drain time out of the developers to get the ball rolling! So does every single other feature or addition anyone has ever requested. Don't bother mentioning it, everyone is aware of it; and for so many to take interest in this topic it's pretty clear it's desired enough to be on a priority list sometime down the road; I doubt anyone cares for a time table, simply sometime before launch; preferably with plenty of time before launch to iron out issues. 

[Bororm 1156]

How is it an advantage if everyone can do it?

If people choose to stay in first person on a third person server, they are handicapping themselves and that is their choice.  Why should other people's preferred playstyles suffer because some people want to handicap themselves?

 

Every argument against third person I see is from the perspective of the victim.  It goes both ways, everyone is exposed to some one who can do the same back to them.  The guy sitting behind the ledge on the hospital roof can be seen by a guy climbing the ladder, without exposing himself, or from a hill behind a tree, or from a doorway, or even a guy down on the ground can make an assumption that hey, maybe there's a guy on that roof and peek the corner from the ground and wait for the guy to make a move.  The guy on the ledge still has to expose himself to fire, he can only gain information without exposing himself, but so can anyone else and there's still blind spots.  It's an equal scenario in terms of tools, so what's the advantage?

 

The advantage is positioning and not inherently the camera, just as a player in a first person only server can choose a higher elevated, concealed position and get a broader view of some one restricted to the ground.  Or how a person can sit in a corner and not move and listen for foot steps to come around the corner.  The player in ambush has an advantage because he's chosen a position to make use of all his tools for that exact purpose, but it's never completely risk free because some one can be doing the same to him.

 

You are always potentially exposed in this game to somebody else's view point, from some sort of angle no matter how small.  To fire you have to be exposed to to enemy fire, just as a first person server.  Each perspective offers pros and cons and it's personal preference.  The great news is there's servers for both.

 

I'm all for more server options, if some middle ground wants to be developed great, provide it as a third setting.  But plenty of people enjoy how third person currently works, and it has nothing to do with dick waving and all the bullshit people bring into these discussions.  It's what we're used to, and we don't have a problem with it, I am genuinely sorry if some people do but I'm not advocating changing their play preferences so why are they trying to change mine?

 

 

On a personal note:

I prefer arma 3 in first person and I prefer DayZ in third, each one for a myriad of different reasons.

 

 

And one more note:

The third person camera is exactly that, a camera.  Notice that you get lens flare in third person but not first?  The argument that it shouldn't see what your character can't see is silly, it's a third person camera not your character's eyes.  That's the entire point.  It makes no sense that you can see the terrain and not the players/zombies in that terrain if the argument is that it should be what your character is restricted to seeing.  What your character is restricted to seeing is achieved by a first person view.

Edited May 7, 2014 by Bororm

[Zeppa 562]

Third person isn't an exploit, everyone has the same tools.  Adapt to the situation and treat blind spots as potential enemy locations.  The map is properly designed around the use of third person and there are extremely few locations where a person using third person can't also be seen by another person at some angle doing the same.

 

In short, it's an even playing ground, and the issue isn't third person but positioning something anyone can take advantage of.  Play smarter, it doesn't need to be "fixed" as nothing is broken.

This is not true, thats talk from someone who enjoys using this drone view to gain upper hand.

The problem is that the other partys has no change what so ever to see opposing player while he is fully aware of ones movement. Saying there is extremely few these kinds of locations is just absurd, you only need a 2 foot wall to laydown behind etc to do this. If grass would be rendered properly you could lay middle of field 3th personing and see everything while other could see only tall grass...

Lets take exsample of player A entering town, B stands behind the wall or around a corner(or what ever) and can see hes advance the whole time, while player A doesnt have a clue that one is there. If there would be this fix, the player B would have the same change of seeing him when the A has to expose him self for to get LOS.

If one argues this being even playgound is delusional and biased.

I would prefer 3th person, only because I feel its more fun to see your character. But I hate when you can use this "exploit" to your advantage so easyly. I play now only on hc server because there its even playgound, on this part. While I hate playing 1st person because low framerates and suchs.

One can always try argue all kinds of playstyle stuff from positioning or stealthiness but it really dont belong to this discussion when the design is flawed. Its all out of the window when opposing player doesnt know anothers existence before he sees the dead screen. If this happens in hc server you know you just missed him from the scene.. with 3th person you can wait for opportunity of victim turning away from you, come around the corner etc etc.

Points about positioning etc only matter when both know the layout of the zone, and knows each others last location.. otherwise you cannot position your self for someone...

Edited May 7, 2014 by Zeppa

[yorkmorgan 191]

I made a topic on this which was closed because I hadn't realised this topic was already so insanely enormous. Fair enough, no grudges.

 

Here it is:

 

I play hardcore because I hate how combat pans out on regular but I have to admit that I really like walking around chernarus in third person; However weird it sounds it just feels more 'survivory' when I can see my char walking around in his gear. So it would be great to have the best of third person without the rampant exploiting.

 

I actually like orloks idea but sadly Rocket said he wouldn't implement something like this.

So here's a different idea to reduce exploiting and make it more of a headache. It has the strength that it would be really easy to implement.

 

The idea is inspired by the similar system in Metal Gear Solid 3:

 

If you are standing up and do not have a ranged weapon in your hands then you can be in third person. If you do not satisfy both of these conditions then you are locked into 1st person. That's it, very easy to code!

 

So if you are lying down or crouching then you will be in 1st person. This would stop people who cant see much in 1st person from being able to see clearly in 3rd person . For instance it would prevent people from seeing clearly when lying in grass and more importantly it would stop people who are lying down on the hospital roof from having a clear view around them.

 

Being locked to first person whenever you have a gun in your hands would make exploiting during a firefight very risky and a complete pain because whenever you are doing it your completely defenceless. For instance I see many videos of players laying siege to others in the barracks and the whole thing becomes a farce as its just a case of whoever 3rd person exploits better wins, now if people couldn't defend themselves in third person its much likelier that they would stay in 1st person for the duration of the fight and it would be a much better experience for both sides. 

 

What do you think?

[Bororm 1156]

This is not true, thats talk from someone who enjoys using this drone view to gain upper hand.

The problem is that the other partys has no change what so ever to see opposing player while he is fully aware of ones movement. Saying there is extremely few these kinds of locations is just absurd, you only need a 2 foot wall to laydown behind etc to do this. If grass would be rendered properly you could lay middle of field 3th personing and see everything while other could see only tall grass...

Lets take exsample of player A entering town, B stands behind the wall or around a corner(or what ever) and can see hes advance the whole time, while player A doesnt have a clue that one is there. If there would be this fix, the player B would have the same change of seeing him when the A has to expose him self for to get LOS.

If one argues this being even playgound is delusional and biased.

One can always try argue all kinds of playstyle stuff from positioning or stealthiness but it really dont belong to this discussion when the design is flawed. Its all out of the window when opposing player doesnt know anothers existence before he sees the dead screen. If this happens in hc server you know you just missed him from the scene.. with 3th person you can wait for opportunity of victim turning away from you, come around the corner etc etc.

Points about positioning etc only matter when both know the layout of the zone, and knows each others last location.. otherwise you cannot position your self for someone...

 

This game doesn't play out in a vacuum, this argument is the same one I always see and it's extremely narrow minded.  No kidding a guy behind a wall can see another player in a particular position, but that doesn't mean the player behind the wall isn't also exposed to the same sort of thing from another angle himself.  You find me a location in this game where you can view other players, without ever being exposed at some angle to another player's view yourself.  The only one that comes to mind was the castles in the mod, in which you could be on the stairs and aim down at the door and a player entering could not look up at a steep enough angle to return fire.  And that was an issue of first person, as you could angle your camera high enough in third any ways.  I'm nearly 100% positive they've actually fixed this by increasing the angle at which you can aim upward.

 

It does not matter if the player can't immediately see you back because there is always another location where he will be able to, this means it is a matter of positioning.  If you can kill him, he had a chance to see you.  It is physically impossible in this game to shoot some one without them having a direct line of fire back, short of cheating.  He has more information than you because he chose an advantageous position to gain said information.

 

You need to look at the broader picture.

 

You know how you get around the issue of not knowing whether there is another player in an advantageous location from you?  You assume he is there and act accordingly.  You play enough and you figure out these positions easily.  It's the same thing as playing first person and becoming familiar with popular corners that are going to be camped.  Do you run into rooms and not check the corners, then complain that a guy was hiding under the stairs?

 

I'm honestly pretty sick of people saying that third person is flawed, or an exploit, or all the other nonsense.  It's not, you just need to adapt to it.  If you don't prefer the playstyle that arises from adapting to it, or if you're incapable of adapting to it then that is your personal choice/preference and is perfectly valid.  It has nothing to do with the way it works, because it works fine and is in fact fair to everyone involved on the basic level.  The advantage, once again, is you are being out positioned and ambushed.  Do you complain when you are shot in the back, because you didn't see the guy?  No.  It's the same principle, yes the guy can see you and adjust his attack accordingly before you can see him, but he also can in a first person scenario where he is out of your field of view.  It's the same shit, he is out of your field of view, that is a result of him choosing a better location than you to make use of his perspective.  That is him playing smarter than you.

 

It is not biased to say this, it is biased to approach the situation without considering all aspects of it.  What you are saying in your post is not considering every angle of the scenario.  It's incredibly narrow minded.

Edited May 7, 2014 by Bororm

[Zeppa 562]

This game doesn't play out in a vacuum, this argument is the same one I always see and it's extremely narrow minded. No kidding a guy behind a wall can see another player in a particular position, but that doesn't mean the player behind the wall isn't also exposed to the same sort of thing from another angle himself. You find me a location in this game where you can view other players, without ever being exposed at some angle to another player's view yourself. The only one that comes to mind was the castles in the mod, in which you could be on the stairs and aim down at the door and a player entering could not look up at a steep enough angle to return fire. And that was an issue of first person, as you could angle your camera high enough in third any ways. I'm nearly 100% positive they've actually fixed this by increasing the angle at which you can aim upward.

Thats true, you are almost allways exposed from some angles but that does not change anything regarding this exploit between players, that is always issue in any pvp game from any viewpoint(being exposed). Sure you can adapt to everything to an extent but doesnt make it right.. The player C can be using this exploit also and B watching A cant know it even if tries to pay attention. D can be watching C yada yada... Problem is the information that exploiting player get before actual encounter, there is no actual biger picture with this its just between 2 players, which is non existant encounter if exploiting player wants to kill, victim has no actual change.

When you even 2 players playground in encounter you can start thinking about the 3th and 4th.. actually you cant, then you would be messing with team play.

Game need to have 2 player encounter even, then players can developt the rest with their thinking, wether its tactics, groups etc.

 

 

It has nothing to do with the way it works, because it works fine and is in fact fair to everyone involved on the basic level. The advantage, once again, is you are being out positioned and ambushed.

 

Its is not as explained many times, the advantage is gained immediately when you spot someone now you can move so he cant keep track of you or see you at all if he hasnt spotted you. Without exploit you would have to expose yourself multiple times to keep track of him. Also ambushing is just too easy with this exploit its like wallhack when you can shoot just before guy comes around a corner and come on top or move around without him knowing your movement, while you can maintain constant visual with your drone view and slay him. Thats just invisiple periscope, in rl you can see the periscope..

 

 

Do you complain when you are shot in the back, because you didn't see the guy? No. It's the same principle, yes the guy can see you and adjust his attack accordingly before you can see him, but he also can in a first person scenario where he is out of your field of view. It's the same shit, he is out of your field of view, that is a result of him choosing a better location than you to make use of his perspective. That is him playing smarter than you.

And this is just rediculous, there is nothing same. In 1st person scenario both players have same risk(even playgound), without not having visual the opponent can be behind every corner for both players. With the exploit one using it has the upper hand and person who gains it first (in case players knowing each others presense) is going to come out top if not total idiot.

Exploiting player can keep you from  getting visual while maintainning his. I dont understand how you can make this even on even basic level?

And with exploit you can end the opponents life before he can actually start using exploit too, if you gained it before him.

Thats is all good in 1st person, he really did play smarter and predicted my movement without visual. You cannot compare that to actually knowing someones movements and acting acordingly... to predicting and using tactics.

Why do you think police and military have specialized gear to achieve this what you can achieve with 3th person, to gain advantage and keep it. Only in rl these can be spotted, like drones and cameras... in this game, you cant.

How would your gameplay suffer if this is fixed properly?

You woudnt able to keep track of people without them knowing you do so and kill them? what is wallhack used for? Almost the same thing with slight variation of execution.

 

Edited May 7, 2014 by Zeppa

[Bororm 1156]

Third person isn't some omnipresent all seeing eyeball, it's still pretty restrictive.  You're going to be extremely hard pressed to keep constant visual on a target without at some point exposing yourself to him to do so.  He's going to get out of your line of sight at some point, or you'll have to leave yours to keep up.

 

We're talking about people here, not ai.  You can't perfectly predict what some one is going to do, even while watching them, unless you can read minds.  It's on you to constantly maintain situational awareness and keep in mind potential threat areas.  Just as you would in first person.  Use cover and concealment, approach those locations accordingly.

 

This game is also not balanced around 1v1s, just as real life is not balanced around 1v1s.  This game is not meant to be fair in every encounter, it's about providing everyone with the same access to the same tools and allowing them to decide the outcome.  It is a sandbox, not a competitive fps.  You have the same exact tools as the person who is looking around a corner at you, because he chose a location and because you just happened to wander into it you are at a disadvantage.  The same exact thing could have happened to him, by you, if you happened to come around the other corner.  Again I challenge you to find a location in this game where you are capable of seeing every single player in a full sphere around you, without them having the potential to see you back, short of cheating.

 

It's closer if anything to listening to foot steps.  I'm not going to pretend there isn't a huge difference between vision and hearing, there is, but the principle is the same in that the person who has positioned themselves to use their tools best (hearing, sight) is going to gain the best information.  If I put myself in an advantageous position to be able to hear you, and don't move myself as to make no sound, then I know you are coming and can pop out and shoot you as well.  Vision obviously offers a hell of a lot more information, but it still comes down to one person making better use of his tools to gain an advantage over another player.

 

Comparing it to wall hacks is absurd, but if you want to make the comparison then you must say that it's like everyone having wall hacks, so how is that unfair on a basic level.  Everyone has the same wallhack.

 

As long as you view this as an exploit you're never going to look at it objectively.

 

 

How would your gameplay suffer if this is fixed properly?

 

 

My gameplay would have to change, but why should my gameplay and those other players who have no problem with the current setup's gameplay have to change because some people don't prefer it?  And no, by gameplay here I don't mean sitting on some roof popping dudes, but the broader spectrum of everything that results from the style of gameplay that develops around this perspective.  If it was presented as a third option I have no problem with that.  I don't prefer first person in DayZ, but I'm not advocating changing first person to suit me.  Just like I'm not going into a game like counter strike and advocating they change it to third person.

 

The notion that it needs to be "fixed" I still find ridiculous, as it is not broken, as many players have no issue at all with it.  I have never in all my hours of DayZ died and blamed it on third person, because I am perfectly aware that by playing on a third person server players are capable of seeing me without me immediately seeing them.  I have learned through my play time where to predict these players and how to approach potential situations with this in mind, down to the way I move about.  When I die it is because I've been caught out in a bad spot, and I know that is my own fault.

Edited May 7, 2014 by Bororm

[Zeppa 562]

No I totally know what is your point, but imo its shouldnt be as it is in this type of game. It would be ok with more arcadey shooter etc and even fun.
That is why I consider it as cheating/exploit in this game with all "realistic" features "to come". That should be considerent, what type of game we are going to have.
I would be ok if hardcore server could choose between first person and fixed 3th person.
 

 

Third person isn't some omnipresent all seeing eyeball, it's still pretty restrictive. You're going to be extremely hard pressed to keep constant visual on a target without at some point exposing yourself to him to do so. He's going to get out of your line of sight at some point, or you'll have to leave yours to keep up.

 

All true, but extented eyeball providing more information than you "should" have.
 

We're talking about people here, not ai. You can't perfectly predict what some one is going to do, even while watching them, unless you can read minds. It's on you to constantly maintain situational awareness and keep in mind potential threat areas. Just as you would in first person. Use cover and concealment, approach those locations accordingly.

 

 

Ofcourse you cant, thats why its just predicting, its just comes to how easy it is to maintain that situational awareness, with 3th person its so much easyer. Without exposing yourself everytime you need LOS like with your human eyeballs.
 

 

This game is also not balanced around 1v1s, just as real life is not balanced around 1v1s. This game is not meant to be fair in every encounter, it's about providing everyone with the same access to the same tools and allowing them to decide the outcome. It is a sandbox, not a competitive fps. You have the same exact tools as the person who is looking around a corner at you, because he chose a location and because you just happened to wander into it you are at a disadvantage. The same exact thing could have happened to him, by you, if you happened to come around the other corner. Again I challenge you to find a location in this game where you are capable of seeing every single player in a full sphere around you, without them having the potential to see you back, short of cheating.

 

 

It's closer if anything to listening to foot steps. I'm not going to pretend there isn't a huge difference between vision and hearing, there is, but the principle is the same in that the person who has positioned themselves to use their tools best (hearing, sight) is going to gain the best information. If I put myself in an advantageous position to be able to hear you, and don't move myself as to make no sound, then I know you are coming and can pop out and shoot you as well. Vision obviously offers a hell of a lot more information, but it still comes down to one person making better use of his tools to gain an advantage over another player.

 

Comparing it to wall hacks is absurd, but if you want to make the comparison then you must say that it's like everyone having wall hacks, so how is that unfair on a basic level. Everyone has the same wallhack.

 

As long as you view this as an exploit you're never going to look at it objectively.

 

True, true. But how do you get the position to get the best information is the issue now.if both see each other at the same time, then I consider this to be fair game who can use the 3th person best and such. But in this game that is hardly the case, someone gets always their ass handed to them because of this feature we have and that they woudnt not if both parties woud have to use their eyes.

I think it all comes down to what type of game it fits, imo its not for this game as it is now. I can see it objectively even I think its exploit.
That makes me thing why they would even consider this feature to military sim (as it is).

Edited May 7, 2014 by Zeppa

[Bororm 1156]

Zeppa thanks for being reasonable, I think we just disagree.  I don't see it as not fitting the game, as it's been a part of the game since it started.  I can see your stance and going for realism, but I personally feel any form of third person is going to break that realism any ways.

 

I just don't want to be forced to change the way I play this game because some other people don't like it.  Again, I feel for those people who want something in the middle, and I'm all for providing that option but I don't think it needs to come at the expense of changing what other people have already come to enjoy.  It should be another alternative not a replacement.

[gibonez 3633]

Rocket even commented on this solution recently, and said it's not practical/beneficial.

 

It's not just zorping people out of your view, it's zorping them out of existence for the client entirely (if I understand it correctly).

 

That and if flicking the characters in and out of existence doesn't stick out like a sore thumb, I don't know what does.

 

Characters do not fade in or flicker out in the distance I believe they slowly fade in at a rate that it would be nearly impossible to tell if its a player or not.

 

As far as it not being a practical fix for the problem I have to ask what is then ?

 

Is it not more practical to adopt this fix or to allow players to continue to see what their character cannot physically see.

[Katana67 2907]

Characters do not fade in or flicker out in the distance I believe they slowly fade in at a rate that it would be nearly impossible to tell if its a player or not.

 

As far as it not being a practical fix for the problem I have to ask what is then ?

 

Is it not more practical to adopt this fix or to allow players to continue to see what their character cannot physically see.

 

I mean, the solution as outlined in the Youtube video in the OP has characters literally zorping in and out of existence instantaneously.

 

For example, if someone were under a tree, I could use third/first STILL to spot them (perhaps easier) by looking for where they pop in.

 

A more practical solution is occlusion blurring, so that if one's character's view is obscured, that portion of the screen is blurred. In conjunction with just lowering the effing camera, I think this would work wonders.

 

And it's mainly impractical because it's actually removing things from the client.

[gibonez 3633]

I mean, the solution as outlined in the Youtube video in the OP has characters literally zorping in and out of existence instantaneously.

 

For example, if someone were under a tree, I could use third/first STILL to spot them (perhaps easier) by looking for where they pop in.

 

A more practical solution is occlusion blurring, so that if one's character's view is obscured, that portion of the screen is blurred. In conjunction with just lowering the effing camera, I think this would work wonders.

 

And it's mainly impractical because it's actually removing things from the client.

 

Yea your solution would be fantastic however it would require substantial blurring in order to obscure even player movement.

 

The camera does need to be repositioned so any blurring or character popping would not be so noticeable.

 

I am surprised the camera has not been changed yet seems like an easy fix.