Arma3 Third person fix mod...thoughts?

[aussiebobby 82]

I'm seeing a slight delay on it, so it might give a big of a scare when they see a player morph in front of them

Change

_refresh1P = 0.04; /////////////// How often the script should check to see if the player is still in first person. (seconds)

_refresh3P = 0.5; //////////////// How often the script iterates through the array of units inside the outer perimeter while in third-person. (seconds)

[Ken Bean 175]

As already said, I don't like that "fix" for various reason. One is that we already get seperated hives, which is a way better solution gameplaywise.

 

Adding the 4th wall on top of it in my opinion is just kind of sheding blood without any cause.

There are loads of folks that like the 3rd person view as it is.

Edited March 29, 2014 by Ken Bean

[antonioajc 500]

As already said, I don't like that "fix" for various reason. One is that we already get seperated hives, which is a way better solution gameplaywise.

 

Adding the 4th wall on top of it in my opinion is just kind of sheding blood without any cause.

There are loads of folks that like the 3rd person view as it is.

Thing is, you can exploit the 3rd person view to see other players where you wouldn't normally see them. This mod doesn't change the third person view, it just obscures/removes players that cannot be seen in your 1st person view.

[Ken Bean 175]

Thing is, you can exploit the 3rd person view to see other players where you wouldn't normally see them. This mod doesn't change the third person view, it just obscures/removes players that cannot be seen in your 1st person view.

 

No need to twist around. I know what I said and I absolutely mean it that way.

No, i'm not your opinion. --> 3rd person view is not an exploit - that's mine.

Just try to accept it.

Edited March 29, 2014 by Ken Bean

[TheScruffyBandit 382]

I called it didn't I?

 

The only thing this mod does is stop most of the abuse of 3pp, nothing else... and the 3pp players still try to avoid it.

 

The only thing that the average 3pp player cares about is having an unfair and game breaking advantage to see through walls, it's unrealistic, it's abuse of a mechanic and it's CHEATING, any reasonable person can see that and yet they'll still try and argue their weak to nonexistent case. It goes to show why people are using 3pp and it's evidently got nothing do to with wanting to see their characters, it's all about the abuse, or this mod wouldn't effect them in the slightest.

 

Frankly a long term solution to 3pp can't come soon enough, if we're lucky it could even purge a large part of the undesirable elements from the playerbase.

[belphegor_goatzombie 100]

The only thing that the average 3pp player cares about is having an unfair and game breaking advantage...

How is it unfair when everybody can use it? Maybe you just dont know how or not so efficient.

 

...to see through walls...

You can see through walls in 1pv also, but cant see behind walls/corners in 1pv.

 

...it's unrealistic, it's abuse of a mechanic and it's CHEATING...

Its feature and there is nothing wrong with it.

[gibonez 3633]

How is it unfair when everybody can use it? Maybe you just dont know how or not so efficient.

 

 

You can see through walls in 1pv also, but cant see behind walls/corners in 1pv.

 

Its feature and there is nothing wrong with it.

 

It is unfair to the player who is seen because he has no idea he is being watched. Meanwhile the hiding player has 0 risk to himself yet can track every movement of the other player.

 

Seeing through walls in 1pv is a bug and it should eventually get fixed.

 

Seeing around corners is not a feature but instead it is a by product of incorporating such a high camera in 3pv.

 

The negative effect seeing around corners has on gameplay is high so fixing this problem would be to the games benefit.

[TheScruffyBandit 382]

How is it unfair when everybody can use it? Maybe you just dont know how or not so efficient.

 

 

You can see through walls in 1pv also, but cant see behind walls/corners in 1pv.

 

 

Its feature and there is nothing wrong with it.

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you for your amusement; The third person player base.

 

 

 Everyone cheats so cheating is a feature. :rolleyes:

Edited March 29, 2014 by TheScruffyBandit

[belphegor_goatzombie 100]

They should call 3pv "Hardcore" since we have "unfair advantage" there. :P

I play on "Hardcore" servers also, and i dont see anything "Hardcore" about it, except that your view is restricted and dull all the time.

[TheScruffyBandit 382]

They should call 3pv "Hardcore" since we have "unfair advantage" there. :P

I play on "Hardcore" servers also, and i dont see anything "Hardcore" about it, except that your view is restricted and dull all the time.

Maybe you have a point. Lets do that.

 

Now If you don't mind, I'm going to ride to the shops on my new "Hardcore" bike.

 

 

/Sarcasm.

Edited March 29, 2014 by TheScruffyBandit

[Bubbled Luff 27]

I re-watched the video and it is still not clear to me; this 4th wall mod or script is applied globally to the server? By which I mean, will it be active in both 1pp and 3pp viewpoints? As if glitches/bugginess/exploits/lag the mod itself has would affect 1pp as well, then I would be against it...

[belphegor_goatzombie 100]

^ It would affect 3pv only.

Algorithm presented in video have big flaws, it would decrease performance because of ray-casting, it is inaccurate (using proxies for collision detection, not pixel perfect) and it does not work for transparent objects (that would require some performance heavy ray-tracing/raster-occlusion technique, which is impossible to have on today's HW, even if it is using deferred calls). And above all it is pointless because there is nothing to fix.

Lets be realistic, after all how many people would play 3pv if this got implemented in comparison to now?

Edited March 29, 2014 by belphegor_goatzombie

[Bubbled Luff 27]

^ It would affect 3pv only.

Algorithm presented in video have big flaws, it would decrease performance because of ray-casting, it is inaccurate (using proxies for collision detection, not pixel perfect) and it does not work for transparent objects (that would require some performance heavy ray-tracing/raster-occlusion technique, which is impossible to have on today's HW, even if it is using deferred calls).

Lets be realistic, after all how many people would play 3pv if this got implemented in comparison to now?

I agree, this mod makes it completely ridiculous to play 3pp. It's a noble attempt, and yes it 'fixes' being able to see players out of line-of-sight, but in the worst, most immersion breaking way... it's a joke to have things pop into view like that.

It won't affect my play, but I don't subscribe to the 'force 3pp users to play my mode by ruining the 3pp experience' school of thought.

The only way to get 3pp users to migrate is to make 1pp the true 'survival sim experience' and give it hardcore survival features that are absent in 3pp regular mode. Make it more brutal, lower item spawn, just something to differentiate it beyond viewpoint.

[mgc 92]

if the game switches to 1pp/FPV ONLY on release:

 

a bunch of players who liked 3pp/regular have to play 1pp/hardcore,

or stop playing the SA, or go back to the mod.

 

 

this is not a bad thing.

 

then the game is experienced in it's true form for all, and those who can't deal with it/don't like it can play a different game.

 

didn't the lead developer of this game say first person is better, more immersive and ultimately the better experience?

didn't he also say that 3pp is only still in the SA because BI is afraid it will hurt further sales and be "unappealing to the majority of current players"?

 

please don't cop out to the scrubby unwashed masses of teenagers playing this.

some of us are grown and can appreciate bold artistic commitment.

we're the people who support, test and viral market this game.

listen to us, not them!

""didn't he also say that 3pp is only still in the SA because BI is afraid it will hurt further sales and be "unappealing to the majority of current players"?""

This worries me. Had they left it out from the start, there wouldn't have been an issue. If BI is stuck with 3pp because there are many players that don't care about immersion / realism, how will that influence the rest of the development of the game?

Edited March 29, 2014 by mgc

[Weedz 1105]

I agree, this mod makes it completely ridiculous to play 3pp. It's a noble attempt, and yes it 'fixes' being able to see players out of line-of-sight, but in the worst, most immersion breaking way... it's a joke to have things pop into view like that.

It won't affect my play, but I don't subscribe to the 'force 3pp users to play my mode by ruining the 3pp experience' school of thought.

The only way to get 3pp users to migrate is to make 1pp the true 'survival sim experience' and give it hardcore survival features that are absent in 3pp regular mode. Make it more brutal, lower item spawn, just something to differentiate it beyond viewpoint.

So the magic camera floating 15 feet behind you allowing you to see around corners and over walls worse than any cartoony arcade 'intentionally be as unrealistic as possible' 3pp shooter ever made isn't immersion breaking .... but fixing an exploit  .. that's a deal breaker because not being able to cheat is to immersion breaking ....

 

This doesn't touch 3pp in any way other than not allowing you to play like a scrub wallhacker.

 

 

The game advertises itself as an "Authentic, open world sandbox survival horror sim"

 

not as "BLASTEM UP 3000! The unrealistic built-in-wallhack game were walls don't matter and you can set yourself up to have a 0% chance of ever dying by camping on roofs! Pesky axe wielding murderers bothering you? Just jump up on top of firestation or hospital roof and use the awesome wallhack feature to see over the lip of the roof and when they approach ...  BLASTEM UP! AWWWWWW YEAAAAHHH!!!!"

Edited March 29, 2014 by Weedz

[Bubbled Luff 27]

So the magic camera floating 15 feet behind you allowing you to see around corners and over walls worse than any cartoony arcade 'intentionally be as unrealistic as possible' 3pp shooter ever made isn't immersion breaking .... but fixing an exploit .. that's a deal breaker because not being able to cheat is to immersion breaking ....

This doesn't touch 3pp in any way other than not allowing you to play like a scrub wallhacker.

The game advertises itself as an "Authentic, open world sandbox survival horror sim"

not as "BLASTEM UP 3000! The unrealistic built-in-wallhack game were walls don't matter and you can set yourself up to have a 0% chance of ever dying by camping on roofs! Pesky axe wielding murderers bothering you? Just jump up on top of firestation or hospital roof and use the awesome wallhack feature to see over the lip of the roof and when they approach ... BLASTEM UP! AWWWWWW YEAAAAHHH!!!!"

Hi dude. If you'd read my other posts in this topic you'd see I play 1pp and would like more to join us, I just don't share your point of view on ways if achieving it.

My problem with this particular 4th wall mod is that it doesn't let you know what you can't see, which goes against how your brain perceives things just popping in out of nowhere. If I were able to suggest an improvement to this mod, I'd add to it by heavily shade any areas out if the line of sight so that you would have a clear visual indication of what your avatar is 'able to see'. It would still make 3pp a bit of a joke though.

I don't really have any issue with 3pp being left as it is though, doesn't affect me. I'd rather people were allowed to enjoy this game however they see fit to play, and from whatever perspective they do it from. I honestly don't think there is any way to merge the two viewpoints into one hive that won't affect either negatively.

[Weedz 1105]

My problem with this particular 4th wall mod is that it doesn't let you know what you can't see, which goes against how your brain perceives things

 

 

..... yeah you should probably just stop. That is the entire point of this mod .... you find it acceptable that you are "able to know what you can't see?" .... Because that is not in fact how your brain works. Nor is it acceptable in a "authentic simulation" game.

Edited March 29, 2014 by Weedz

[Bubbled Luff 27]

..... yeah you should probably just stop. That is the entire point of this mod .... you find it acceptable that you are "able to know what you can't see?" .... Because that is not in fact how your brain works. Nor is it acceptable in a "authentic simulation" game.

Not sure but maybe you miss my point, perhaps I don't make myself clear enough.

SHADE OUT ANY AREAS TO NEAR BLACK THAT ARE OUT OF LINE OF SIGHT

YOU CAN STILL HAVE THE CHARACTER MODELS AND LOOT POP IN AND OUT AS NECESSARY

Maybe that explains it better?

[J4G 92]

I never understood why the HC players wanna change 3pp server players experiences.
If the 3pp server players want to "cheat", let them, its not away from HC players.

Or is this once again these situtations where the 10% knows how wrong rest of the 90% is?

 

IMO if  this "3rd person fix mod fourth wall" have to add somewhere, it should add only in to hardcore servers.
That might  bring lots of 3pp server players in to the HC servers and those who are not in this for real, can keep campin at behind electros corners on regular.

And yes, i play in both hives.
 

[Weedz 1105]

I never understood why the HC players wanna change 3pp server players experiences.

If the 3pp server players want to "cheat", let them, its not away from HC players.

 

IMO if this "3rd person fix mod fourth wall" have to add somewhere, it should add only in to hardcore servers.

Okay thanks .... downloading hacks now so I can use them only on 3pp servers!

 

...... you clearly don't get the point of this mod. It would have no use on hardcore servers because those don't have wallhack exploits due to a badly implemented 3pp by people who never meant it to be used for a PvP game.

Edited March 29, 2014 by Weedz

[joe_mcentire 2074]

i think the basic thing is: ppl pleading for this idea and for 1st person servers in general fear that at some point 1st person servers (as in the mod) "die out". well because human's instinct is to go the easy way and no matter if he is at a disadvantage 6 times in a row with the inherent imbalance of 3rd person, at some point he is peaking around the corner and has the absolute power and control over a situation. that's maybe why many get drawn to 3rd person servers eventually.

Me included, we fear that the "essence" of the game could die eventually, which would be a real shame.

 

However reading that an idea like the one discussed in this thread would somehow "break the 4th wall" although at the same time you can see around every corner and over walls and pretty much appreciate this very fact, then it is getting ridiculous tbh.

My very personal feel is that DayZ should not reward such thinking and such an approach. it may be even an insult for the "antigame" to exploit the very "gamey" features.

 

I think the idea is good. of course as presented here it is merely a poorly executed mod for arma. but it's about the idea and that's everything you need to know for now.

Edited March 29, 2014 by joe_mcentire

[gibonez 3633]

i think the basic thing is: ppl pleading for this idea and for 1st person servers in general fear that at some point 1st person servers (as in the mod) "die out".

I think the idea is good. of course as presented here it is merely a poorly executed mod for arma. but it's about the idea and that's everything you need to know for now.

 

I don't see it that way.

 

I see it as this mod is a great way to not split the community and offer one centralized good dayz experience across the board.

 

Having the community all play the exact same game would be nice. I don't like the idea of two different hives.

 

This mod would be the best solution , nobody is alienated, peeking around corners is fixed, people with motion sickness can continue to play and not get sick.

 

Everyone wins.

[joe_mcentire 2074]

This mod would be the best solution , nobody is alienated, peeking around corners is fixed, people with motion sickness can continue to play and not get sick.

 

Everyone wins.

agreed, a very good solution. i have pretty clear picture of why you wouldn't want such a feature though.

Edited March 30, 2014 by joe_mcentire

[pacific_coast 632]

the question is:

 

will 3pp ever see this mod's function as a permanent fixture?

 

how many people will complain and demand it is reverted?

[gibonez 3633]

the question is:

 

will 3pp ever see this mod's function as a permanent fixture?

 

how many people will complain and demand it is reverted?

 

Doubt anyone will notice and those that do will merely complain that they cannot camp the rooftops of fireastations anymore and still see around them so their point would be moot.