Arma3 Third person fix mod...thoughts?

[Judopunch 523]

Imagine the tension and adrenaline encountered when running into someone.

Imagine the suspense when engaged in a firefight how both sides would be extremely nervous about moving forward or not imagine how flanking would be effective since you could no longer safely peek around cover.

Imagine if you were in first person. Its even more intense.

[Judopunch 523]

This mod caters to you and people who like FPV only.

 

This mod would fix third person view and finally end the constant debate over third person view.

 

Both sides will finally stop arguing over this subject.

No because you still have a larger field of vision in 3pp. Giving you an innate advantage.

[belphegor_goatzombie 100]

Exploit is "looking thru walls", looking behind wall is feature of 3pv. There is nothing to fix, deal with it whiners. :P

[Valadain 270]

 

 

And statements like this is why nobody cares what you have to say, nobody is agreeing with you, and exactly why I said what I did. You don't want them to fix a horrible exploit that people have been complaining about since day 1 of DayZ mod and is the sole factor for there needing to be a divide in the community you instead want them to focus on adding things you want to the game.

 

This is the time for making the core game better and testing not making it the game YOU want it to be while not fixing bugs or problems. Why are you in this thread if you claim you don't care about it? Oh that's right to try and justify your desperate need of crutch camping.

 

 

Vanilla DayZ's seemed to manage just fine and have millions of players for the 2 years it's existed without base building, perfectly flawless zombies, or "reasonable depth of play". If you don't think an indie game with almost 2 million sales in the 3rd month of early alpha development and still gaining ~10,000 new players daily already has it's feet under it and is currently doing gymnastics then piss off and come back in a year. Game will still be here. With millions of players.

 

There isn't supposed to be a goal that players feel the need to go do instead of KoSing in this game. That goes against the entire point of the game. If people want to go around KoSing they go around KoSing. The 2 years this idea has been around for in every single variation of DayZ made that pretty obvious.

 

And if you actually bothered to read things the developers say like you should be doing in an alpha test you would know why zombies can still go through walls and will continue to do so until the entire map is completed.

 

 

This is 'DayZ Standalone's 2 million player early alpha development' not 'Valadain Presents: His idea of what features the game needs or it will never succeed'

 

 

The fact that you're going so hard against this and you crutch kiddies are 80% of the posts in this thread about fixing 3pp makes it pretty obvious that you're just making random excuses to keep your corner camping crutch no matter what perspective you claim to prefer.

 

 

I think you are entirely missing my point, which is fine, as your derogatory language towards those who don't agree with you indicates that there is no communication to be had.

 

I'll only respond here to the point about the game getting it's feet under it. That wasn't a business assessment. From a business standpoint, the game is entirely a success. They've sold plenty of copies and made plenty of money. They done good. My concern is that people continue playing. That is the area where the game hasn't gotten its feet under it. And it is completely understandable as the game is in early alpha. It is my opinion that this feature won't give people that drive to continue playing. And I suspect that it will be a huge development time-sink based on my many years in the field of programming. 

[Grimey Rick 3417]

I don't agree with the idea whatsoever. It completely defeats the purpose of playing in the third-person perspective. Applying a first-person FoV to 3PP totally defeats the intended purpose of playing in the third-person. With that being said, if this is as big an issue as everyone is making it out to be, then rather than going through the troubles of adding a feature like this into DayZ, you'd be better off just removing 3PP in its entirety. I mean, really, 3PP gameplay is not even broken, so I'm not even sure why there is even any discussion when it comes to "fixing" it... An advantage that everyone has access to is not an advantage, nor is it an "exploit." I can't think of a single third-person shooter in existence that utilizes a feature even remotely similar to this. And it's not due to the fact that it's never been thought of before, it's due to the fact that it's a bad idea and completely defeats the purpose of 3PP. If you don't like third-person, there are always hardcore/veteran servers available. Nobody is forcing you to play in 3PP servers. You can't fix something that's not broken in the first place.

 

Rather than address every point of your post that's already been addressed in pages prior to this one, I'm gonna put myself out there and make the claim that 3PP has no place in a game like DayZ. At all. This game can't advertise itself as an "authentic/realistic zombie apocalypse survival" game and then include a Tomb Raider playstyle for those who are too scared to play without the borderline wallhack that is 3PP.

 

I don't even know why ARMA, one of the most "realistic" military shooters out there felt the need to incorporate 3PP. Like seriously, wtf? Counter-Strike feels more realistic in comparison. Also, in Counter-Strike, cl_thirdperson "1" can't be activated until sv_cheats is set to "1". What does that tell you?

 

EDIT: Because comma.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Grimey Rick

[Martmital 436]

I am truly trying to under stand your point of view but I honestly cant.

 

So let me get this right you like the "feature" of seeing over cover and around cover while prone and out of sight ?

 

Why ?

 

 

When did I state I like it?  It's been like this since 3PP games have been around.  The industry see's nothing wrong with it and are not likely to change it anytime soon.  So why get worked up about it?

[Martmital 436]

 If you start them off using a crutch then they turn into people like Judopunch and Martmital who desperately make up any excuse they can think of to keep their 3pp exploiting in the game because they know without it they have no chance or else they wouldn't care at all about FIXING an exploit without touching any other aspect of the game.

 

 

How am I making up reason to keep it?

 

I've stated over and over again, in many threads, take 3PP's magic eye away and I will still use 3PP.

 

Some of you 1PP guys are some of the most butthurt, whiny, fuckers I have ever met.  No wonder no one wants to play in 'hardcore' servers...

[kichilron 8550]

Some of you 1PP guys are some of the most butthurt, whiny, fuckers I have ever met.  No wonder no one wants to play in 'hardcore' servers...

 

 

No matter how you think about other players, this is not the way to express it.

[Weedz 1105]

I think you are entirely missing my point, which is fine, as your derogatory language towards those who don't agree with you indicates that there is no communication to be had.

 

I'll only respond here to the point about the game getting it's feet under it. That wasn't a business assessment. From a business standpoint, the game is entirely a success. They've sold plenty of copies and made plenty of money. They done good. My concern is that people continue playing. That is the area where the game hasn't gotten its feet under it. And it is completely understandable as the game is in early alpha. It is my opinion that this feature won't give people that drive to continue playing. And I suspect that it will be a huge development time-sink based on my many years in the field of programming. 

27,262 - players online

 

On a Thursday at mid-day during the school year

Looks like it's doing just fine to me ...

Edited March 27, 2014 by Weedz

[Valadain 270]

27,262 - players online

 

On a Thursday at mid-day

Looks like it's doing just fine to me ...

 

Continue... Continue playing...

 

I don't know how many times I have to say that my concern isn't "right now". It is early alpha. I recognize this and am certainly not maligning the work going into this game right now. My concern is a sink-hole feature, the lack of which isn't causing anyone not to play the game. Well, that and the attitude that many 1PP players here have with regards to their fellow 3PP players.

[gibonez 3633]

When did I state I like it?  It's been like this since 3PP games have been around.  The industry see's nothing wrong with it and are not likely to change it anytime soon.  So why get worked up about it?

 

Perhaps but the players of Dayz and Arma have seen a problem with it.

 

Hence why solutions like the 4th wall mod are being created.

 

In other games where life has little value people seeing over cover or walls is not a big problem but its different in any game with mil sim aspects or perma death.

 

The exploit is a very real problem and the mod addresses it.

[gibonez 3633]

No because you still have a larger field of vision in 3pp. Giving you an innate advantage.

 

No because you still have a larger field of vision in 3pp. Giving you an innate advantage.

 

Yea bu the main people arguing against 3pv are not arguing because of the larger field of view the game gives you.

 

They are arguing because of people using its perspective to see around corners or over cover.

 

The advantage in fov is not a problem since there is a FOV slider giving anyone their preferred field of view.

[dallas 5195]

Just don't see it happening, why over complicate it, when the simplest solution has always existed?

[gibonez 3633]

Just don't see it happening, why over complicate it, when the simplest solution has always existed?

 

Because it is a rather simple solution.

 

This mod has 0 performance loss, it is extremely simple and when nailed right would improve the gameplay.

 

This is the reason why it should be added.

[Weedz 1105]

Just don't see it happening, why over complicate it, when the simplest solution has always existed?

^this

 

People who act like it's impossible to have a shooter without 3pp are hilarious.

 

This engine doesn't even do 3pp correctly to start with. In a 3pp game the camera is supposed to be right over or right beside the back of your head not 57,000 Miles behind you so you can see around the curvature of the Earth and over Mount Everest to what's going on in China.

 

 

 

1pp games were invented to provide the player with greater immersion into the game universe 

 

3pp games were invented to allow the game designer to create a more strongly characterized avatar. To make up for the ability to see around corners slightly (in games that actually know how to do 3pp) Developers make 3pp games mad cartoony, be as unrealistic as possible by having things like wall running and double jumping off walls, and combat usually takes 6+ shots to kill someone so that corner camping is pointless anyway as you still have to run out and shoot someone for a full second before they die. Even sniper rifles in these games are not 1-2 shot kills because GOOD devs know that would be retarded and get horribly abused by corner camping.

 

 

 

I don't know about you guys but I want immersion in my sandbox survival horror game not Barbie dress-up time ... especially as you can see your char on the inventory screen and menu anyway.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Weedz

[Judopunch 523]

Yea bu the main people arguing against 3pv are not arguing because of the larger field of view the game gives you.

 

They are arguing because of people using its perspective to see around corners or over cover.

 

The advantage in fov is not a problem since there is a FOV slider giving anyone their preferred field of view.

Than why not limit the camera motion more? Seems like a more tenable solution to me.

 

I dont like the idea of 3pp in general. But 3pp is a different game, it has advantages no matter what you do. Making people vanish from existence is simply a bandage to the real problem that is 3pp has much more vision of the entire situation. 1pp does not. 

 

I truely think that 3pp doesnt need this 'fix' to keep people from seeing things they shouldnt see, because quite frankly being in 3pp is already giving you a huge advantage with or without the 'people poping into existence' problem the proposed change would create.

 

Take for example, someone hiding in some tall grass 4 feet from you like that famous youtube video about why 1pp is so intense. They would have spotted him EASILY with or without this 'fix' to third person because it is innately broken if you truly care about aspects of the game involving vision .Like i previously said, lower the center of the camera, limit the motion of the camera to prevent 'easily' looking around corners.

 

You could simply move the invisible pivot point for the camera to a point half way behind the player model, and make it so that without turning your body the camera cant give you more than 160 degrees of view or something. Restrict rotation on the X access to prevent people looking down to look over objects, and suddenly it becomes more difficult to wrap the camera around a corner to see the other side of a wall.

 

You could even have a collision box for the camera that moves out from the player model that if they are against a wall the camera will not pivot far enough to look around the wall, unless the player is super close to the edge or peeking around it.

 

Edit: Even one more solution: 3pp is locked as an over the shoulder camera instead of a free cam where the players model actually takes up visual space. Pushing a key allows you to switch what shoulder your looking over.

 

But this 'make people invisible if you cant see them' is a small bandage on a problem where the only actual solution is to limit the game to 1pp. But if 3pp must exist, having people dissapear is un-intuitive, creates visual problems (people popiing in, I cant see things that exist, lag bugs, visual un-intuitiveness as world of tanks is the only game I have seen use a system like this and everyone hates it). Therefor limiting the cameras ability to generate 360x360 vision at least bypasses the visual oddness. 

Edited March 28, 2014 by Judopunch

[nexventor 429]

So, I was playing DayCare last night with my team and we had cornered 2 guys on a tree covered mound near NEAF after they murdered my mate. I had fully flanked them and knew round about where they were. As I approached over the crest the urge to press the "up periscope" button was immense not because I wanted it but because I knew I was at a huge disadvantage if they were in 3PP (which who isn't lol). I rounded the top and shot one in the back and killed him as his friend came running around a tree. If I was in 3PP I would have shot and killed him first, he was closer and more of a threat. We exchanged and we both died... I know I would still be alive today had I used 3PP but the experience, the immersion, the thrill was far far far more rewarding even though I died than using "go go periscope".

 

Oh and do yourself a favour, go and buy track IR, simply the most awesome thing to hit DayZ since the removal of pants. 

Edited March 28, 2014 by NexVentor

[pacific_coast 632]

i for one welcome our new 3pp coward overlords

 

please, make hardcore 3pp

 

it's better right?

 

right?

 

...

 

?

 

someone make the case that 3pp is anything but an environmental comfort blanket.

[BadAsh (DayZ) 1513]

All this arguing over first person view and Tpv only solidifies my view that this fourth wall mod is the best solution.

This mod would not alienate anyone both side would be satisfied. On top of this the potential benefits to gameplay would be astronomical.

 

So I gather you haven't been reading a single post in this thread which is critical of the way the mod is implemented.

[Weedz 1105]

i for one welcome our new 3pp coward overlords

 

please, make hardcore 3pp

 

it's better right?

 

right?

 

...

 

?

 

someone make the case that 3pp is anything but an environmental comfort blanket.

 

I only use 3rd person when I want to watch my character vomiting after eating rotten fruit. It's so much more realistic when I can see his entire body from a detached magic camera floating 15 feet away and the sound sounds like it's coming from way off in front of where I am than it would be if I was using my own characters eyeballs to see the vomit spraying out of my mouth and can hear the sound directly in my ears as if I myself were vomiting.

 

This is definitely the only reason I don't even know what a corner camping is. Some sort of sporting goods store?

Edited March 28, 2014 by Weedz

[pacific_coast 632]

I only use 3rd person when I want to watch my character vomiting after eating rotten fruit. It's so much more realistic when I can see his entire body from a detached magic camera floating 15 feet away and the sound sounds like it's coming from way off in front of where I am than it would be if I was using my own characters eyeballs to see the vomit spraying out of my mouth and can hear the sound directly in my ears as if I myself were vomiting.

3pp mode is for when i lose session and have a login timer on HardCore and am waiting for the cooldown

[BeefBacon 1185]

I can't give enough beans for this. I'll have to make a bunch of fake accounts.

 

This mod is pretty rusty, but it's a push in the right direction. I'd rather see a, say, .2 second fade rather than popping in and out. Being able to see over grass will still be a problem, but that pales in comparison to the issues that'll be solved.

 

I truly hope the devs will consider a similar system.

Edited March 28, 2014 by BeefBacon

[gibonez 3633]

So I gather you haven't been reading a single post in this thread which is critical of the way the mod is implemented.

 

So I gather you haven't been reading a single post in this thread which is critical of the way the mod is implemented.

 

I chose to ignore them because the mod is a work in progress.

 

More importantly the mod is a concept and the concept itself is sound.

[Window Licker 504]

bump

[Weedz 1105]

Hidden text.

The crutch kiddie is strong in this one

 

And yes if you're playing 3pp so that you can corner camp and don't want this fix than you are a cheating retard. This isn't what I said but I agree with you.

 

This post says everything

This idea is bad - it unfairly penalizes all players who play 3PP just because 1PP players dont like it- while obviously, the 3PP players have no issue with it.

 

 

 

You want to keep an exploit in the game that ruins it for everyone so ...

 

Hidden text.

Edited March 28, 2014 by Inception.
Do not use that word.