Arma3 Third person fix mod...thoughts?

[Valadain 270]

To fix an inherent problem that is looking over cover, and around cover without any risk to the player.

 

Once they fix this bug or fix this gameplay exploit they move on to the next issue and attempt to fix that next.

 

Such as seeing thru walls like you mentioned earlier.

 

The problem is, that it isn't a bug or an exploit. It is how the system works and has worked as designed in Arma. You and many others don't like it, I get that, but to deal with this they put in an entire hive to facilitate those players.

 

I'm not saying they won't change this functionality, but it is wrong to call it a bug or an exploit. The only exploit in 3rd person is leaning close to a wall and getting the camera to go through that wall.

[gibonez 3633]

Why is this a problem? 

 

Now if you say 'because its not realistic' Or 'Because it provides an advantage.' Third person already does both of those things. Why would you not just play 1pp only?

 

Why is this a problem? 

 

Now if you say 'because its not realistic' Or 'Because it provides an advantage.' Third person already does both of those things. Why would you not just play 1pp only?

 

Why is this a problem? 

 

Now if you say 'because its not realistic' Or 'Because it provides an advantage.' Third person already does both of those things. Why would you not just play 1pp only?

 

Ideally people would play in 1pv only however people have friend , friends who are new and might want to try out "normal" servers first.

 

However the main question you must ask yourself is " Why wouldn't you want a solution added in place for normal servers where the enemy only sees you if you yourself are able to see them ?"

 

Is this not beneficial to the game ? should people not be at equal risk.

[mgc 92]

the role playing aspect of zombie survival, you know, the part that doesn't have a lot to do with interaction with other players (2/3rds of the game by the way) -3pp is an invaluable tool for looting those hard to reach top shelves and such, its also fantastic for overland navigation. I wouldn't recommend expecting a fair fight with another player on a 3pp server but since the game is not all PvP 3pp does have its uses. I should also note that I treat other players the same way I treat the zombies, just another dangerous obstacle I must overcome or circumvent in order to get the items I require to keep my little apocalypse Barbie alive. as a shooter, I am sure you have no use for the 3pp pov. as a survivor I have use for both. hrm maybe I am getting more from the game than you are. maybe you should reconsider your overall play style.

""the role playing aspect of zombie survival, you know, the part that doesn't have a lot to do with interaction with other players""

I'm baffled by this sentence. Isn't roleplaying all about interaction with other players? Furthermore, how on earth can you link this to 3pp.

 

""3pp is an invaluable tool for looting those hard to reach top shelves and such""

This we can agree upon. I would like to see that fixed so you can grab the item just as easy while in 1pp.

 

""its also fantastic for overland navigation.""

Does it help "drive" the navigation mechanics?

 

""maybe I am getting more from the game than you are""

""apocalypse Barbie""

Yes, you are, but i'm fine, thnx.

[nexventor 429]

Why would you take issue with people doing something on an entirely different server off somewhere that doesn't impact your server?

 

Quite simply put... not enough people play hardcore unfortunately. I don't like playing in servers that are half full.

[Martmital 436]

As was noted a long time ago, the only people who care about this are 1PP players, many who wouldn't use 3PP even if they fixed it's 'problem'.

 

 

Quite simply put... not enough people play hardcore unfortunately. I don't like playing in servers that are half full.

 

Which tells me, the vast majority of players prefer having both views at their disposal.

Edited March 26, 2014 by Martmital

[gibonez 3633]

As was noted a long time ago, the only people who care about this are 1PP players, many who wouldn't use 3PP even if they fixed it's 'problem'.

 

They would because the problem would have been fixed.

 

You think first person only players only player that mode because they hate third person view of course not.

 

They hate seeing around corners and peeking over cover and how detrimental it is to the gameplay.

 

Which tells me, the vast majority of players prefer having both views at their disposal.

 

Yea and the mod would give people everything they want.

 

People that like TPV could enjoy it while people who hate peeking over walls and over cover no longer have to worry about that.

Edited March 26, 2014 by gibonez

[Martmital 436]

They would because the problem would have been fixed.

 

You think first person only players only player that mode because they hate third person view of course not.

 

They hate seeing around corners and peeking over cover and how detrimental it is to the gameplay.

 

It's not a problem, pretty much every 3PP enabled game has this 'feature'

 

No, I think and I've been told my many 1PP players that they use 1PP because they enjoy that view over 3PP.  Just as most 3PPers don't hate 1PP, they just prefer 3PP.

 

Those of you that hate are too few in number for Bohemia to care about.  The state of 1PP only servers are testament to that.

[gibonez 3633]

It's not a problem, pretty much every 3PP enabled game has this 'feature'

 

 

I am truly trying to under stand your point of view but I honestly cant.

 

So let me get this right you like the "feature" of seeing over cover and around cover while prone and out of sight ?

 

Why ?

[Elle 562]

""the role playing aspect of zombie survival, you know, the part that doesn't have a lot to do with interaction with other players""

I'm baffled by this sentence. Isn't roleplaying all about interaction with other players? Furthermore, how on earth can you link this to 3pp.

 

""3pp is an invaluable tool for looting those hard to reach top shelves and such""

This we can agree upon. I would like to see that fixed so you can grab the item just as easy while in 1pp.

 

""its also fantastic for overland navigation.""

Does it help "drive" the navigation mechanics?

 

""maybe I am getting more from the game than you are""

""apocalypse Barbie""

Yes, you are, but i'm fine, thnx.

 

to the role playing aspect - if the other players are trying to take your gear why would you want to interact with them in the first place (see, your are a shooter so you don't get that part) and if I am not interacting with other players why do you care if I can see on the top shelf better than you can? 3pp facilitates this. also in my survival game I kill zombies (imagine that) and they are just so much easier to whack with an axe in 3pp.

 

as for navigation, not yet but it should. I and many others simply can't spend hours and hours running across the landscape in 1pp (why I am not actually opposed to 4th wall by the way) - it causes real problems in the real world causing people to stop playing and go take their asprins or whatever they take for the headaches it causes, you also miss out on some really beautiful scenery when you spend all your time in 1pp, address these issues for navigation and I may consider navigating in 1pp (personally I don't think that's ever going to be possible with this engine)

 

as to the rest we seem to have to reached a fairly easy impasse. so do you play a Barbie or a Ken?

 

now you know what I spent my money on. be aware that I am no alone.

[Elle 562]

Quite simply put... not enough people play hardcore unfortunately. I don't like playing in servers that are half full.

well there ya go - the public has spoken.

[Weedz 1105]

Ideally people would play in 1pv only however people have friend , friends who are new and might want to try out "normal" servers first.

 

However the main question you must ask yourself is " Why wouldn't you want a solution added in place for normal servers where the enemy only sees you if you yourself are able to see them ?"

 

Is this not beneficial to the game ? should people not be at equal risk.

Which is turruble. Why would you show them a shooter by not showing them 1pp servers as most every shooter on the planet ever made is 1pp on top of that you can turn your head in this game too making it better than any FPS ever in 1pp. If you start them off using a crutch then they turn into people like Judopunch and Martmital who desperately make up any excuse they can think of to keep their 3pp exploiting in the game because they know without it they have no chance or else they wouldn't care at all about FIXING an exploit without touching any other aspect of the game.

 

If people can't accept a fix like this they have no other possible excuse other than they are admitting they are a scrub who WANTS 3pp exploiting in the game. Fact.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Weedz

[mgc 92]

to the role playing aspect - if the other players are trying to take your gear why would you want to interact with them in the first place (see, your are a shooter so you don't get that part) and if I am not interacting with other players why do you care if I can see on the top shelf better than you can? 3pp facilitates this. also in my survival game I kill zombies (imagine that) and they are just so much easier to whack with an axe in 3pp.

 

as for navigation, not yet but it should. I and many others simply can't spend hours and hours running across the landscape in 1pp (why I am not actually opposed to 4th wall by the way) - it causes real problems in the real world causing people to stop playing and go take their asprins or whatever they take for the headaches it causes, you also miss out on some really beautiful scenery when you spend all your time in 1pp, address these issues for navigation and I may consider navigating in 1pp (personally I don't think that's ever going to be possible with this engine)

 

as to the rest we seem to have to reached a fairly easy impasse. so do you play a Barbie or a Ken?

 

now you know what I spent my money on. be aware that I am no alone.

"now you know what I spent my money on."

Let's see if I got it right;

You spend your money on a MMORPG in which you roleplay "apocalypse Barbie" by yourself.

You admittedly don't care about realism or immersion yet you buy DayZ. Why?

 

"as to the rest we seem to have to reached a fairly easy impasse."

Your reality seems to be different from mine.

 

"the headaches it causes"

Yeah, that is a problem. Needs work.

 

"why do you care if I can see on the top shelf better than you can?"

I don't want to have to leave 1pp to get the item. I don't see why looting the top shelf should be reserved for 3pp. I trust the devs are aware of the problem but consider it low priority (and rightly so).

 

"the public has spoken."

Plato, trust me.

[Weedz 1105]

MMORPG

When is the part where you level up and unlock the skill tree in dayZ? I've been playing it for almost 2 years straight now and I haven't even reached level 2 yet!

Edited March 27, 2014 by Weedz

[mgc 92]

When is the part where you level up and unlock the skill tree in this game? I've been playing it for almost 2 years straight now and I haven't even reached level 2 yet!

I'm sure you're level 10+ after 2 years of practice. Player skills, man, player skills.

[Weedz 1105]

What does the 3pp pov help drive?

It helps drive your car quite a bit. Try that shit on the mod in 1pp not very fun with locked low FoV when you're going 150kmh

 

 

 

 

 

I play a lot of FPS and agree - not a unique problem, and doesn't impact the game. In many 3PP games, the 'exploit' is also less of a factor - as maps and the gameplay are artificially limited to minimize this in many cases (aka flat ground, etc.). I do think there is a compromise in the middle with a tweak to the FoV and the already allowing adjustment to head bob for those that get most ion sickness. I'm personally hoping we get VR support mainstream and polished soon to allow for much better real world immersion in games like these.

Most 3pp games it is no problem for those reasons but mostly because most of them are MAD cartooney and if you can't do things like wall running and jumping around corners to avoid corner camping it has things like needing 8 bullets to kill someone so camping is almost pointless anyway as you get 1/8th of a better advantage than your opponent at most.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Weedz

[mgc 92]

 

It helps drive your car quite a bit. Try that shit on the mod in 1pp not very fun with locked low FoV when you're going 150kmh

Lol, good one.

[Elle 562]

"now you know what I spent my money on."

Let's see if I got it right;

You spend your money on a MMORPG in which you roleplay "apocalypse Barbie" by yourself.

You admittedly don't care about realism or immersion yet you buy DayZ. Why?

 

"as to the rest we seem to have to reached a fairly easy impasse."

Your reality seems to be different from mine.

 

"the headaches it causes"

Yeah, that is a problem. Needs work.

 

"why do you care if I can see on the top shelf better than you can?"

I don't want to have to leave 1pp to get the item. I don't see why looting the top shelf should be reserved for 3pp. I trust the devs are aware of the problem but consider it low priority (and rightly so).

 

"the public has spoken."

Plato, trust me.

yeah you just skipped all that about the other players being more obstacles etc etc.

 

the bottom line is I paid for a game that incorporates 3pp and 1pp on the same server and offers a 1pp experience on separate servers - I did NOT pay for a 1pp shooter. I will be extraordinarily pissed off at having wasted my money if 3pp is removed, it's truly that simple. I have never asked for a refund for a game but if 3pp is completely removed I will. false advertising and all that - so it would pretty much be foolish for BIS to go there considering its been sold as both. I like playing apocalypse Barbie the game was sold with the capacity and it should retain that capacity or I want my money back and I would encourage everyone that feels this way to follow suit.

 

the real question is why YOU feel the need to impose your play style on me when I have nothing to do with you at all? makes no sense whatsoever. and you are beginning to be very annoying with it. seriously you've still never answered this.

 

as for plato - who cares the guys been dead a couple of millennia now and was required reading in high school over 30 years ago. he also has no bearing on my choice in games.

 

I'm sorry if you don't feel the current SA holds up to your "vision" but in the end its not your vision that matters, its Dean Hall's.

 

edit: oops I forgot to address the "MMORPG" what I bought is a hybred-MMO according to the description at steam and BIS. not sure where you pulled that from but whatever

Edited March 27, 2014 by Elle

[Judopunch 523]

Which is turruble. Why would you show them a shooter by not showing them 1pp servers as most every shooter on the planet ever made is 1pp on top of that you can turn your head in this game too making it better than any FPS ever in 1pp. If you start them off using a crutch then they turn into people like Judopunch and Martmital who desperately make up any excuse they can think of to keep their 3pp exploiting in the game because they know without it they have no chance or else they wouldn't care at all about FIXING an exploit without touching any other aspect of the game.

 

If people can't accept a fix like this they have no other possible excuse other than they are admitting they are a scrub who WANTS 3pp exploiting in the game. Fact.

I mostly play 1pp, as stated in my first post.. You are getting rude at this point. I never said, implied, or endorsed anything you have stated. I take great offence to the two posts you have involved me in. Not only are you failing at basic comprehension. But now your are fabricating information.

 

My problem with the 'pop or fade in' feature is highlighted in World of Tanks. To this day the spotting and vision mechanics in that game infuriate people and cause problems for new players because it doesnt make sense to have someone disappear and appear.

 

Furthermore I provided a suggestion that would also mitigate the abuse of 3pp by controlling how the camera interacts with the environment and limiting its ability to be pivoted around a corner (that post of mine that im still trying to figure out what you were thinking.)

[mgc 92]

yeah you just skipped all that about the other players being more obstacles etc etc.

 

the bottom line is I paid for a game that incorporates 3pp and 1pp on the same server and offers a 1pp experience on separate servers - I did NOT pay for a 1pp shooter. I will be extraordinarily pissed off at having wasted my money if 3pp is removed, it's truly that simple. I have never asked for a refund for a game but if 3pp is completely removed I will. false advertising and all that - so it would pretty much be foolish for BIS to go there considering its been sold as both. I like playing apocalypse Barbie the game was sold with the capacity and it should retain that capacity or I want my money back and I would encourage everyone that feels this way to follow suit.

 

the real question is why YOU feel the need to impose your play style on me when I have nothing to do with you at all? makes no sense whatsoever. and you are beginning to be very annoying with it. seriously you've still never answered this.

 

as for plato - who cares the guys been dead a couple of millennia now and was required reading in high school over 30 years ago. he also has no bearing on my choice in games.

 

I'm sorry if you don't feel the current SA holds up to your "vision" but in the end its not your vision that matters, its Dean Hall's.

"you just skipped all that about the other players being more obstacles"

You left quite a few questions unanswered. Ladies first.

 

"I paid for a game that incorporates 3pp and 1pp on the same server"

I can't seem to find that guarantee anywhere. I do remember realism and immersion.

 

"I did NOT pay for a 1pp shooter."

Who did?

 

"false advertising"

Orly.

 

"its been sold as both."

Pay extra attention to "it". "it" in this case means the pre alpha, not the finished product.

 

"why YOU feel the need to impose your play style on me when I have nothing to do with you at all?"

Oh, but you do. We covered this in the "sheer numbers" part.

 

"as for plato - who cares the guys been dead a couple of millennia now and was required reading in high school over 30 years ago. he also has no bearing on my choice in games."

LOL

Education, who gives a crap, right?

[Elle 562]

-snip-

OK jesus of the 1pp - you make me tired with your insipid need for me to play the game your way - the majority of the people that play the game are fine with it (excepting the obvious bugs) but you just can't seem to accept that - kinda like my dog can't seem to accept the fact its time to give up the bone and go to bed. I've even shown a willingness to reach a compromise with 3pp using 4th wall (what this thread is about) but you just keep at it trying to force me to see only your point of view and nothing else - I'm done. enjoy Dean's vison. for the record you don't have to be a dick to express your point of view.

[mgc 92]

OK jesus of the 1pp - you make me tired with your insipid need for me to play the game your way - the majority of the people that play the game are fine with it (excepting the obvious bugs) but you just can't seem to accept that - kinda like my dog can't seem to accept the fact its time to give up the bone and go to bed. I've even shown a willingness to reach a compromise with 3pp using 4th wall (what this thread is about) but you just keep at it trying to force me to see only your point of view and nothing else - I'm done. enjoy Dean's vison. for the record you don't have to be a dick to express your point of view.

"Barbie plays majority card (again)"

Counter with Plato.

 

"I've even shown a willingness to reach a compromise with 3pp using 4th wall"

We're way further down the rabbit hole than that, Alice.

 

"you don't have to be a dick to express your point of view."

Agreed, you can be a Barbie too.

[gibonez 3633]

All this arguing over first person view and Tpv only solidifies my view that this fourth wall mod is the best solution.

This mod would not alienate anyone both side would be satisfied. On top of this the potential benefits to gameplay would be astronomical.

[Valadain 270]

Quite simply put... not enough people play hardcore unfortunately. I don't like playing in servers that are half full.

 

So basically, you are lonely because nobody wants to play the way you want to play, so you want to force them to play the way you want to play?

 

Don't get me wrong, I actually prefer first person. The only reason I'm not on the hardcore servers is because I read the forums, so I don't have an overall positive perception of those playing on hardcore servers. I also wouldn't care if they implemented a solid and perfectly working system as described. I have my doubts that it is possible. I think we'd get a lot more strangeness with people popping in and out of existence near partially obscuring things, like stairs or half walls. I also fear that it would impact first person mode, so there would be no option to have good game-play.

 

But that said, I also don't give a damn if they leave it the way it is and focus on the dozens of other things I want more than this.

[Valadain 270]

All this arguing over first person view and Tpv only solidifies my view that this fourth wall mod is the best solution.

This mod would not alienate anyone both side would be satisfied. On top of this the potential benefits to gameplay would be astronomical.

 

Unless it works like crap and people vanish around partially obscuring things like stairs or windows or de-sync causes people to pop in and out of existence in front of you or hackers use it to screw us all over.

 

I'll be honest, while this is early alpha and I am very forgiving, knowing what I signed up for on buying it, there's a lot wrong with this game that needs to be worked on. Third person is about the last thing on that list.

[gibonez 3633]

Unless it works like crap and people vanish around partially obscuring things like stairs or windows or de-sync causes people to pop in and out of existence in front of you or hackers use it to screw us all over.

I'll be honest, while this is early alpha and I am very forgiving, knowing what I signed up for on buying it, there's a lot wrong with this game that needs to be worked on. Third person is about the last thing on that list.

Absolutely if incorporated poorly it would suck but with some bug fixing and refinement it could be a huge huge addition to the game. The potential benefits are too great not to include.

As for your point of the importance of something like this I believe these small gameplay additions are of the upmost importance. They are super important because they affect gameplay. If added early their potential benefits could be better gauged.