Regular vs Hardcore: Why do you play?

[Nastradamus87 8]

Edit:

 

This says pretty much everything that needs saying.

Edited March 9, 2014 by Nastradamus87

[cels 43]

what, people hunting hunters? pretty sure you do get that in most servers regardless of the view used!

 

Its stating that the person would've been seen with 3rd person view while since it was 1st person only, he wasn't seen. Which is pretty true to some point.. 3rd person would've made him to be more easily revealed.

 

Outside of this, some of it can be seen as opinion.

Edited March 9, 2014 by cels

[rickyriot 1009]

Have we got past the point where all the lamecore players stop being so insecure and throwing tantrums claiming the hardcore players are all just campers?

No?

Oh, well, I'll pop in later to see if there's been any improvement...

[NagsterTheGangster 388]

I like regular so when im looting houses I get a better fov and can see the loot a bit faster.

[TheWalrusNet 6]

They both are pretty much the same to me, I play on regular with my friends because there tends to be a slightly higher population on them, and i have a seperate character on hardcore for playing alone. Initially it was just so i could play while they were offline, but Hardcore seems to up the intensity of the firefights quite a bit. Removing the third person means (almost) always having to endanger yourself to see where shots are coming from, and from my experience there is a lot more 'setup' required to kill someone (and less KoS) because players know that the kill won't be so easy when you can't get a visual on someone without poking your head out. Buuuut regular is better for group play, third person helps you watch your buddies' backs :D

[Crooked Hauser 258]

I only use 3pp when I want to fap to my avatars George Michaels-ian ass in those sexy blue jeans and TTsKO top. Fucking erotic.

[Sensemann 145]

I play both but prefer 1st person in general. 

 

I am using TrackIR and it's really fun in Arma/DayZ. I also prefer the general immersion with 1st person only in the sense of having equal playing fields. Many times I have died on 3pp servers because some sniper is laying on the rooftop of the fire station looking 360 degrees without giving his position away. This is not possible in 1st person only. 

The only annoying thing in 1st person is that I somehow feel that I am viewing a floating camera (headblob off, as I feel dizzy with it on). I don't know why but only Arma/DayZ cause this, no other FPS.

 

I also play on 3pp servers regularly because I love seeing the different clothes on my avatar but generally, on 3pp servers, I experience 2 different negatives. 1st, too often getting shot/shooting others because I could watch above the wall/around a corner and only expose myself the moment the opponent looked the other way. And 2nd every time a buddy or me is getting shot, the excuse: "He must've exploited watching around the corner" comes up. 

 

As suggested before, only render the stuff that would be in your real field of view would be a great improvement to 3pp servers.

 

Nevertheless, I play both modes equally.

[Irish. 4886]

Both now that Experimental is jacked up..

 

Regular

 

Hardcore

[McGarnagle 94]

I believe you are using the term subjectively though, and that's fair enough, but objectively a 3rd person viewpoint provides less immersion purely on the basis that it doesn't reflect the viewpoint you would experience in the real world.

 

That doesn't make sense. Immersion is inherently a subjective experience, and although there might be certain aspects of gaming that correlate highly with immersion for some people, like 1st person view, that doesn't make it any less subjective. It just makes it common. You can't say something objectively provides less immersion anymore than you can argue that a movie is objectively funny. Those things don't work that way.

Edited March 10, 2014 by McGarnagle

[en1mal 12]

I love to play DayZ HC, immersion and gameplay wise (IMAO DayZ should be 1st only), but there are a few occasions when

i wish i had the 3rd person. And thats when im just running around marathon like, its just nice to look around in 3rd,

to gaze on the beautiful lands of Chernarus (since the 3rd raises your vision half a meter) - and when i play this game in

1st for a long time i get motion sick, because of the jumpy FPS. I say i play with 60 fps most of the times, but then again

it drops to 15, and im not even talking about big cities. Needless to say i cant hit shit with that lag. Aaaand looting is

easier on 3rd person, thats a bummer.

 

I really thought about dropping it as i saw they'll release it with 3rd person enabled, but thats why we have HC servers,

right..

Edited March 10, 2014 by en1mal

[en1mal 12]

You'll never get this on a 3pp

 

 

That exactly sums up why DayZ should be played in 1st person. No offense to anyone who plays 3rd, i do it too, but 1st is the way to go to get away from immersion breaking campers, glitchers etc.

On 1st, you're just focused on doing different things than camping the road between Elektro and Cherno behind a rock.

 

Awesome job dslyexci did there once again.

[Crooked Hauser 258]

That doesn't make sense. Immersion is inherently a subjective experience, and although there might be certain aspects of gaming that correlate highly with immersion for some people, like 1st person view, that doesn't make it any less subjective. It just makes it common. You can't say something objectively provides less immersion anymore than you can argue that a movie is objectively funny. Those things don't work that way.

It probably just means the person who feels more immersed in 3pp has brain damage. That's my medical opinion as an asshole.

[StoutAle 69]

 I don't play 3pp anymore sense I have figured out how to kill the motion sickness with changing the settings.  I actually wouldn't ever play normal server but I have friends that I play with that like it (and they use 3pp constantly).  I understand why people use it on servers that allow it, "everyone else is" so they do.   I don't mind people using it, play like you want if your not hacking, I just think the game loses something when you use it.  I know it's not for everyone but IMO I just think it's a bit odd to be able to see around a corner or over a fence that you couldn't ever see around or over in real life without any risk.

[cels 43]

That exactly sums up why DayZ should be played in 1st person. No offense to anyone who plays 3rd, i do it too, but 1st is the way to go to get away from immersion breaking campers, glitchers etc.

On 1st, you're just focused on doing different things than camping the road between Elektro and Cherno behind a rock.

Awesome job dslyexci did there once again.

Agree with the video some, 3rd person wouldve made him spotted easier.. I think the dude who almost stepped on him but didnt see him though was more so probably not looking at his monitor.. Just out of personal experience, if im on the move or following someone.. My eyes arent always on the monitor.. More likely its on the map on my laptop or even the tv. Its possible what he says later in the vid, just to me seems unlikely.. Edited March 10, 2014 by cels

[rickyriot 1009]

That doesn't make sense. Immersion is inherently a subjective experience, and although there might be certain aspects of gaming that correlate highly with immersion for some people, like 1st person view, that doesn't make it any less subjective. It just makes it common. You can't say something objectively provides less immersion anymore than you can argue that a movie is objectively funny. Those things don't work that way.

 

You are not making the separation between what can offer the most immersive experience and what levels of immersion are experienced by the player. One of those is objective, the other is subjective. Ok, let's deconstruct the argument. Sorry if this all sounds high brow but it's obviously necessary as several people have confused the premise I put forward earlier.

 

I can't argue that people don't get immersed in a game. that's not what I am suggesting, however if you were to ask to me, for example, "Which provides the most immersive experience Mario Bros or Battlefield?", you would rightly say Battlefield. Those are almost polar opposites of game genres; one being a two dimensional cartoon based platformer, the other being a first perspective, three dimensional battle 'simulator'. Can you say that someone doesn't get immersed in the game play of Mario? Of course not, as that is all about the player being removed from their contextual environment and focussing on the virtual environment. The OED defines immersion as "Deep mental involvement in something" which is generally what is happening when someone plays computer games. 

 

Still with me? Good, so from that last paragraph we can assume all computer games can offer immersion, the amount based on the players involvement whether physical or emotional. Now let's look at which offers the most immersive environment. The OED defines the word immersive as, "(Of a computer display or system) generating a three-dimensional image which appears to surround the user." That's obviously lacking a little in definition as perhaps we could apply that still to Mario as the brain, simply in the way it works, applies three dimensions to Mario (because that is the reality we experience ourselves), however we can see from that there is a clear difference between immersion and immersive. Now if we take that one step forward, and introduce DayZ and it's perspectives, which provides the most immersive environment between 3PP and 1PP, then we get to the heart of my comment. As you experience everything in real life from a first person perspective (sorry for stating the blindingly obvious, but it does need to be said in order to clarify the point) then to offer that same perspective within the game offers the most immersive environment. When playing in the 3PP you are viewing the player (and in sense, you) from an "unnatural viewpoint" and thus, abstracted from reality.

 

So, what does all that psychobabble actually boil down to? Does it mean the player cannot be immersed in 3PP? No, but then that is not my point, and it seems that some people have read it to be so. In fact my point is quite clearly that in order to provide the most immersive environment then you choose 1PP. This is a metric, it's not subjective, it's objective based on what I've laid out above.

Edited March 10, 2014 by ricp

[Jex 1104]

Agree with the video some, 3rd person wouldve made him spotted easier.. I think the dude who almost stepped on him but didnt see him though was more so probably not looking at his monitor.. Just out of personal experience, if im on the move or following someone.. My eyes arent always on the monitor.. More likely its on the map on my laptop or even the tv. Its possible what he says later in the vid, just to me seems unlikely..

 

What Dyslexci (i fucking hate spelling his damn name lol) said was in all actuality correct and I'm speaking from RL experience. Sat by a bush taking a break whilst on exercise these two civvy contractor were walking towards me from about 100 yards. I wasn't sat in the bush just laying on my bash hat )as a pillow) enjoying a bit of sun beside it. So as they get closer it dawns on me they haven't clocked me at all. Their eyes haven't once met mine and they're chatting away until they get as close as that guy in the video and I just rolled onto my side and they both shit their pants (and I just cracked up). That was probably the best ever lesson I learned about camouflage whilst I was in the service. I wasn't laying in tall grass, it was short but I didn't move and they weren't expecting to see me.

[MangoX 10]

I play on both.. I started at regular servers but after being alive there for few months ive come too addicted to my fully geared and pimped character so i started to screw around on hardcore server. Nowdays once in awhile i log back on regular server but then im like "omg i dont want lose this stuff" and go back in hardcore...

 

I try to play mostly with civilian stuff on hardcore while my regular char is fully army fit..

[cels 43]

What Dyslexci (i fucking hate spelling his damn name lol) said was in all actuality correct and I'm speaking from RL experience. Sat by a bush taking a break whilst on exercise these two civvy contractor were walking towards me from about 100 yards. I wasn't sat in the bush just laying on my bash hat )as a pillow) enjoying a bit of sun beside it. So as they get closer it dawns on me they haven't clocked me at all. Their eyes haven't once met mine and they're chatting away until they get as close as that guy in the video and I just rolled onto my side and they both shit their pants (and I just cracked up). That was probably the best ever lesson I learned about camouflage whilst I was in the service. I wasn't laying in tall grass, it was short but I didn't move and they weren't expecting to see me.

Oh im not saying that hes wrong as far as its being possible to happen.. Theres many cases in history that shows its very possible(military channel is awesome)..Im just saying for all we know, unlike real life, dude couldve been looking away from the monitor as why he didnt see him. Also still agree that the chance to have been seen wouldve increased if having a 3rd person view.

Still would like 3rd person fixed and not just "go play 1st person only"..

[minime1000 78]

People need to deal with the fact it is an arcadey game (3rd person view) with survival elements. That is the way Rocket and BI wanted it to be. And they threw in first person view for more "hardcore" experience.

[rickyriot 1009]

People need to deal with the fact it is an arcadey game (3rd person view) with survival elements. That is the way Rocket and BI wanted it to be. And they threw in first person view for more "hardcore" experience.

 

 

[infiniteripper 8]

3rd person, I'm not a fan of first person games.

[Jamz 253]

You are not making the separation between what can offer the most immersive experience and what levels of immersion are experienced by the player. One of those is objective, the other is subjective. Ok, let's deconstruct the argument. Sorry if this all sounds high brow but it's obviously necessary as several people have confused the premise I put forward earlier.

 

I can't argue that people don't get immersed in a game. that's not what I am suggesting, however if you were to ask to me, for example, "Which provides the most immersive experience Mario Bros or Battlefield?", you would rightly say Battlefield. Those are almost polar opposites of game genres; one being a two dimensional cartoon based platformer, the other being a first perspective, three dimensional battle 'simulator'. Can you say that someone doesn't get immersed in the game play of Mario? Of course not, as that is all about the player being removed from their contextual environment and focussing on the virtual environment. The OED defines immersion as "Deep mental involvement in something" which is generally what is happening when someone plays computer games. 

 

Still with me? Good, so from that last paragraph we can assume all computer games can offer immersion, the amount based on the players involvement whether physical or emotional. Now let's look at which offers the most immersive environment. The OED defines the word immersive as, "(Of a computer display or system) generating a three-dimensional image which appears to surround the user." That's obviously lacking a little in definition as perhaps we could apply that still to Mario as the brain, simply in the way it works, applies three dimensions to Mario (because that is the reality we experience ourselves), however we can see from that there is a clear difference between immersion and immersive. Now if we take that one step forward, and introduce DayZ and it's perspectives, which provides the most immersive environment between 3PP and 1PP, then we get to the heart of my comment. As you experience everything in real life from a first person perspective (sorry for stating the blindingly obvious, but it does need to be said in order to clarify the point) then to offer that same perspective within the game offers the most immersive environment. When playing in the 3PP you are viewing the player (and in sense, you) from an "unnatural viewpoint" and thus, abstracted from reality.

 

So, what does all that psychobabble actually boil down to? Does it mean the player cannot be immersed in 3PP? No, but then that is not my point, and it seems that some people have read it to be so. In fact my point is quite clearly that in order to provide the most immersive environment then you choose 1PP. This is a metric, it's not subjective, it's objective based on what I've laid out above.

 

I'm afraid I must continue to disagree. It is the environment which creates the immersive experience, not the viewpoint, and the environment in DayZ remains the same between viewpoints. It's the sounds, visuals/effects and events which provide the human brain with the raw materials to create its own perception of reality/hyperreality. Ignoring your comparison of two completely different games (one designed to immerse the player as much as possible using the most modern techniques, the other designed as away stave off boredom decades earlier) which is irrelevant here, trying to prove which view is the most effective tool for encouraging greater immersion is pointless. For instance, I find just as much immersion in the vulnerability of myself as seen from third person.

 

If you and other players achieve more immersion from FPV than TPV then that's great, and I accept the exploit built into the view can be game breaking in some situations, but that view is really just the way you personally find it more effective to interpret the information that is presented to you. There is no particular advantage here between the views, it's all objective.

[Guest]

3PP:OFF

[blissandpanic 92]

I play both, but hardcore can get laggy for a weak laptop like mine and makes melee combat difficult with low FPS. The people on them are the same mix in my experience. (267 hrs so far)

[NastyNate 0]

Try disabling head-bob in your options menu.

 

Just wanted to circle back and say thanks for giving me the tip. Don't know how I could have missed this, but it helped tremendously.

 

Thanks again!