Server hopping has gotten worse. (actuall analysis, not a whine thread)

[-MadTommy 367]

See the edit I made in my post above for my response on heli crashes. As to the rest:

 

More locations for mil loot and lower probabilities will only increase the number of locations hoppers or farmers have to choose from, and lower probabilities will only increase the length of time they will have to hop and loot. Which, as I said above, causes a cascading effect of higher risk, therefore higher rates of death, therefore more frequent hopping, therefore more players encouraged to hop.

 

As to longer server switch time penalties, this STILL would not stop loot farming or hoping, and in the end would only punish everyone else that switches servers for honest reasons (lag, disconnects, crashes, etc.)

 

Making good gear spawns spread out randomly prevents players from knowing where to go to get them, which forces us to spread out, rather than converge. Again, I think this would negatively impact the overall experience. Currently, it is a thrill and a rush to go to military zones, knowing that other players may be on their way, or there already, or even waiting in ambush. Take away that fear factor, and the greatest appeal this game has is gone. I said before in a thread thanking dean and the dev team, that NOTHING about this game stands out as better than any other: the mechanics are clunky, the graphics are sub par by modern standards, etc. Its the genuine adrenal rush I get every time I hear a fence rattle, or see a player in my scope that makes this game one of, if not THE, best I have ever played. Recently, I made a thread about having aced another player after he logged out. I had EVERY advantage over him. He stood NO chance of beating me. Yet as I was scoped in on him, my heart rate accelerated, my palms got sweaty, even my trigger finger was getting jittery. I DO NOT want that to go away. Forcing players to converge on certain hot spots enhances this, and increases the frequency with which it occurs. 

 

Player stat tracking, while a creative idea, I think is a bad thing for this game. It could potentially punish players who have done nothing wrong. And if extended to track things like K/D ratios, would negatively impact this community.

 

I am continuing to try to imagine a manner in which respawning loot could be implemented and not abused. I DO want to play on a private hive, but I would also like to play in public hive from time to time, and not be forced to constrain myself at all times to the rules of a single community. Yeah, sometimes, I just want to go out, find a gun, and kill someone. I LOVE hunting my fellow players in this game. I mean actually HUNTING. Its a rush like no other to be able to try and seek out, outwit, and KILL another, intelligent, conscious, thinking, plotting player in such a huge environment. Something I could never do IRL, due to empathy, morality, law, etc.

 

I can't say i agree with your analysis.

 

When i say military loot only in random 'heli crash' type locations, i never meant that you would not find other good weapons elsewhere.  I think 90% of hoppers do it for military gear.  Therefore they are mainly hopping at the static military gear hotspots.  If these simply did not exist a lot of the problem would go.  

 

With regards to 'spreading players' and therefore detracting from gameplay, the solution to this is very different.  Loot should be diverse and totally spread.. all we need is more player.. 80+ is what i would like to see.  

 

You will never get rid of hopping & loot farming as long as the requirement for loot exists.  All you can do is make it tiresome for hoppers by penalising them.  If its incredibly dull, time consuming and frustrating server hopping for loot a lot of this behaviour will stop, but never all.

 

Regarding penalties.. i've never seen a timer when i have been disconnected or lost connection for some random reason.  So maybe types of discounts have different characteristics that can be observed/recorded. I also think the majority would be okay will some collateral annoyance by being delayed by a penalty if to greatly reduced hopping and the like.

 

That is the way i see it anyway.

Edited February 10, 2014 by MadTommy

[volano 8]

for people that didn't want to read OP's post

 

tl;dr: people play the game how it was supposed to be played and i don't like it, blaming the anti-server-hopping mechanic instead of the lack of item respawn 

 

even more tl;dr: i don't like the new server-hopping mechanic so i disguise bashing it with an invalid argument that's completely unrelated

[Miquinei 81]

You missed the point of my comment, you titled your thread as "(...) actual analysis (...)" and present no evidence but your opinion and observation - therfore your OP is not based on facts and hard evidence but your view which can be flawed.

I didn't argue your opinion because I haven't done any research myself and countering your opinion with my opinion is just not going to get us anywhere.

Go and do some proper research on the issue and prepair some actual data to illustrate your points. E.g. try server hopping yourself and gather information on how hard,fast, slow it is to gear up, see different locations, times, pick different servers\population\region? and whatever you feel that is relevant.

After all that and at least 1 - 2 weeks worth of data (or whatever time period), look at the data, see if there is a trend, make conclusions create a topic and call it "actual analysis of the problem".

Edited February 10, 2014 by Miquinei

[GGOtter 7]

I'm sorry, you think combat logging and ghosting are fixed now? That's hilarious.

Edited February 10, 2014 by GGOtter

[crazykage 1063]

You missed the point of my comment, you titled your thread as "(...) actual analysis (...)" and present no evidence but your opinion and observation - therfore your OP is not based on facts and hard evidence but your view which can be flawed.

I didn't argue your opinion because I haven't done any research myself and countering your opinion with my opinion is just not going to get us anywhere.

Go and do some proper research on the issue and prepair some actual data to illustrate your points. E.g. try server hopping yourself and gather data on how hard it is to gear up, see different locations, times, pick different servers and whatever you feel that is relevant.

After all that and at least 1 - 2 weeks worth of data (or whatever time period), look at the data, seeif there is a trend, make conclusions create a topic and call it "actual analysis of the problem".

I apologize for jumping the gun on you earlier, i seem to have misread the "inflection" of what you said. You are right,  in that this was not a true, legitimate "ANALYSIS". But then i wasn't trying to write a college masters' degree level dissertation on the subject either. I simply took what i have seen and experienced since the implementation of the timers, and formed an idea of what was going on based on logical assumptions formed from my understanding of how people play the game, how and why they farm loot, and what happens when they do (the cascading effect i pointed out earlier being an example). Basically a sort of "If "A", then "B', and if "C,D, and E" also, then must but "XYZ", thought process, if that makes any sense.

 

Its true that there are a lot of assumptions here, but most are based, if nothing else, on logical thinking. Maybe i WILL do as you suggest, but i doubt i have that much time. I would LIKE to tho...

[PhillyT 554]

I'm sorry, you think combat logging and ghosting are fixed now? That's hilarious.

 

You think it isn't almost entirely solved?  That is hilarious.

 

The real issue with combat loggers was that they would vanish in the middle of being shot.  Now, there is a risk.  30 seconds is a long time unless you have put yourself in an incredibly safe area and fired enough rounds to discourage people from sprinting to your position to kill you.

 

Ghosting is very difficult unless it is a crazy long fire fight.  Logging out and then having to log in a minute or five later to try and ghost is difficult and dangerous.

[GGOtter 7]

I've gotten ghosted like crazy over the past few days, nothing's changed on my end. I'm cooped up at someplace with shots firing around me, I can't go out the front door because it's clear suicide, so I lean out a window or door and return fire. After a while no one's shooting. Great! He's either 1) ghosting me or 2) just there lying in wait. I'll go outside and take my chances.

 

Well, I got shot in the face. 

 

Rewind. I'll stay there and wait for some more time.

 

Well, I got shot in the back.

 

All of this assuming I'm fighting ONE person. If you've been on the server for a while, you can just log out and log back in without waiting too much. So no, it hasn't been fixed. It's more difficult, or more precisely, more situational, but it's still very doable and very much a threat to the wellbeing of any character.

Edited February 10, 2014 by GGOtter

[Miquinei 81]

I apologize for jumping the gun on you earlier, i seem to have misread the "inflection" of what you said. You are right,  in that this was not a true, legitimate "ANALYSIS". But then i wasn't trying to write a college masters' degree level dissertation on the subject either. I simply took what i have seen and experienced since the implementation of the timers, and formed an idea of what was going on based on logical assumptions formed from my understanding of how people play the game, how and why they farm loot, and what happens when they do (the cascading effect i pointed out earlier being an example). Basically a sort of "If "A", then "B', and if "C,D, and E" also, then must but "XYZ", thought process, if that makes any sense.

 

Its true that there are a lot of assumptions here, but most are based, if nothing else, on logical thinking. Maybe i WILL do as you suggest, but i doubt i have that much time. I would LIKE to tho...

It is cool, I understand.. it is only a video game and perhaps I should chill the fuck out myself.

[PhillyT 554]

I've gotten ghosted like crazy over the past few days, nothing's changed on my end. I'm cooped up at someplace with shots firing around me, I can't go out the front door because it's clear suicide, so I lean out a window or door and return fire. After a while no one's shooting. Great! He's either 1) ghosting me or 2) just there lying in wait. I'll go outside and take my chances.

 

Well, I got shot in the face. 

 

Rewind. I'll stay there and wait for some more time.

 

Well, I got shot in the back.

 

All of this assuming I'm fighting ONE person. If you've been on the server for a while, you can just log out and log back in without waiting too much. So no, it hasn't been fixed. It's more difficult, or more precisely, more situational, but it's still very doable and very much a threat to the wellbeing of any character.

 

You are making some assumptions there.  Ghosting has been reduced.  A person could, once in a while if on the same server, ghost once in a fire fight.  But to say that it hasn't improved doesn't really make sense.  I have played quite a lot lately and I haven't had a case of ghosting yet.

[Mack674 76]

I can attest to this for the OP.

I was in svetlojarsk on the roof of office building, town hadn't been looted yet. Was waiting for my buddy to show up. He meets me on the roof after a while, I had been scanning the area and watching the town. All of a sudden , there are 6 guys in town and we are surrounde

Its highly unlikely that 6 fully geared up guys just randomly ran into town, looted nothing and just surrounded our building without either of us noticing while we were scanning the area deciding how to proceed.

The zombies in town didn't react until they all of a sudden appeared and started firing on us.

[crazykage 1063]

I can attest to this for the OP.

I was in svetlojarsk on the roof of office building, town hadn't been looted yet. Was waiting for my buddy to show up. He meets me on the roof after a while, I had been scanning the area and watching the town. All of a sudden , there are 6 guys in town and we are surrounde

Its highly unlikely that 6 fully geared up guys just randomly ran into town, looted nothing and just surrounded our building without either of us noticing while we were scanning the area deciding how to proceed.

The zombies in town didn't react until they all of a sudden appeared and started firing on us.

Are you implying that you were attacked by hackers?

 

What does this have to do with loot farming or server hoping?

[Mr Jizz 313]

I blame the KoS crowd out there.

 

To date I have yet to die by zombies, falling, starvation, dehydration or for a fight I started.  Ignoring glitch-outs I'd consider myself a successful survivalist.  I tend to hang to the North, but I know a lot of folks who want the excitement of the cities. So long as they can't enjoy the city and the survival aspect without being killed by mindless dickholes bent on ruining other people's experience, the victims will hop to rearm themselves to the degree which they can resume their path.  As I've said before, wanton murderous violence among survivors would not be the norm IRL. The best part of the Alpha release is that by the time this game is in full release the bunghole-jockey-KoSers will be bored and a new Battlefield or Call of Duty that will draw them away.

 

Having gear tents and vehicles will greatly reduce the perceived "need" to hop.

[BossFi 90]

Hopping has not got worse no matter how you describe it. Its just the same.

5mins within 30 minutes is a dumb fix! Whoever thought that would work needs shooting! (in game ofc)

It should be 5mins, 10mins, 15mins, adding 5mins everytime you switch server within a 4hr period. Then it resets back to 5mins after 4hrs.

Come on Devs, do it properly

Edited February 10, 2014 by BossFi

[Grimey Rick 3417]

1) Find a friend.

2) Camp ATC.

3) Laugh as you both gun down a handful of hoppers per hour.

[weedmasta 784]

Have you got any empirical evidence proving that this is the case OP? No, you only have your biased opinion and "observations" solely based on your experience.

I don't denie that server hopping is still a problem but doubt your over simplistic "analysis".

 

They are not even biased opinions, they are assumptions. Also expecting the most looted areas on the map to have loot is kinda daft. Move inland...

[Mr Jizz 313]

Hopping has not got worse no matter how you describe it. Its just the same.

5mins within 30 minutes is a dumb fix! Whoever thought that would work needs shooting! (in game ofc)

It should be 5mins, 10mins, 15mins, adding 5mins everytime you switch server within a 4hr period. Then it resets back to 5mins after 4hrs.

Come on Devs, do it properly

 

I think their primary goal was preventing combat loggers and ghosting.  You have to keep in mind that with an Alpha release there's a million and one ways to lose connection with a server, so extensive punishments would be unjust to people who are legitimately having difficulty staying connected or have legitimate reasons to leave briefly. The 5 for <30 penalty is merely a way to slow down the hopping, but no matter what there's no way to eliminate it entirely.

 

Try this: only play in servers with >5 people.  Hoppers looking for gear will likely hang around airfields, thus a populated server exponentially increases their likelihood of earning a lead injection. This way you'll be in servers that will/may have been 'legitimately' raided, and you can barter or scrounge like the devs intended.

Edited February 10, 2014 by Mr Jizz

[BossFi 90]

I think their primary goal was preventing combat loggers and ghosting.  You have to keep in mind that with an Alpha release there's a million and one ways to lose connection with a server, so extensive punishments would be unjust to people who are legitimately having difficulty staying connected or have legitimate reasons to leave briefly. The 5 for <30 penalty is merely a way to slow down the hopping, but no matter what there's no way to eliminate it entirely.

 

Try this: only play in servers with >5 people.  Hoppers looking for gear will likely hang around airfields, thus a populated server exponentially increases their likelihood of earning a lead injection.

The timer I suggested is for switching servers. Not losing connection then rejoining the same server. Don't understand why there is a timer for rejoining same server. So my fix works so much better without the inconvenience of bad connections.

[Mr Jizz 313]

The timer I suggested is for switching servers. Not losing connection then rejoining the same server. Don't understand why there is a timer for rejoining same server. So my fix works so much better without the inconvenience of bad connections.

 

I understand what you're going for, I just don't know that it's built into the fabric of the game to know the difference.  I could be wrong of course.

 

As long as people (A.) don't have anything to do but collect gear, (B.) have to fear every single player they encounter and (C.) have nothing to fall back to or vehicles to traverse the map quickly, the urge to be armed and geared will outweigh a lot of folks' desire to take it the 'long [honest] way'. 

 

IMO, the devs should be focusing on deepening the game dynamics, adding new map and environmental content, new hazards (like the infection system and illness), vehicles, and more zombies. I think an influx of these sorts of improvements will change the game dynamics to a degree that the hopping issue will solve itself holistically (to the best extent that it can). By chiding the devs about server hopping and logging issues, the community is distracting them from making the overall experience better. Server hopping is spilled milk at this point.

[Martmital 436]

Fail to see the 'analysis' in the OP, it's more a 'personal point of view'.

 

I dunno what servers you play on but I don't have any problem.

[Mack674 76]

Are you implying that you were attacked by hackers?

What does this have to do with loot farming or server hoping?

No, I was supporting the OPs post with anecdotal evidence of guys just farming towns.

They loot the town, return to the center change servers. Repeat. I was on the roof with a good line of sight and happened to be in town when they appeared.

[Franchi (DayZ) 146]

I have had the same experience a the op, plenty of locations on low pop servers I could previously be all but guaranteed of loot are now cleaned out on most of the servers I play.

 

 

Hoppers now seem to clear the entirety of NWAF, including the north and south most buildings, this I assume allows them to completely avoid the timer.

 

Guess its time to go back to camping the airfield with a buddies.

 

Best way to camp NWAF for hoppers, get a friend with a mosin and a pristine long range scope, scrounge yourself a damaged LRS, place the damaged scope on the catwalk in the ATC where your sniper has a good line of fire, hide your pointman/loot man along the back of the ATC away from most of the buildings, sit and wait, reset the bait scope as needed. Its a great recipe for loot.

Edited February 10, 2014 by Franchi

[Jonoats 27]

I find that by playing on servers that remain near or at full capacity the amount of people logging in looking for loot is greatly diminished due to the fact that nobody goes to a full server for loot.  However, a lot of players tend to use "glitches" near high loot area's to ambush players.  Sucks seeing a guy glitch out from a rock after shooting at your friend.  I suggest learning of these spots and acting accordingly.  As far as actual loot goes, the full servers always have butt-loads of gear piles with legs running around (players) all in very predictable positions.  Use your head and anticipate what the majority of people are doing, (looting, and moving to vantage points and then spawning in on high pops).  A large part of this problem is in my opinion the spawn system only spawning players on the eastern parts of the map.  All those towns get looted incredibly fast and people not knowing how to navigate end up going along predictable paths where they often have unfortunate encounters with people looking to fire off their new fancy weapons.  

If you only play on nearly empty servers though your militarized zones are going to be plagued by loot cyclers.  They'll do it for the safety.  Loot respawns will help keep them out of towns I guess though.   

[CJFlint 357]

The concept of Day-Z has caused this issue and here is why. If you die or if your just starting with a new profile, you have nothing what so ever. In order to get the "gear" you have travel several miles to high risk areas sometimes just to get shot which puts you right back were you started. Or if your lucky find your body. So naturally players look for a loop hole. It can take hours to get geared up and is risky. If there's no real rules or mechanics put in place, in a game were its pretty hard to survive. People are going to do what ever they have too to survive or get what they need period. 

 

Honestly I tried "hopping". For me it didn't work as well as I thought. When I tried logging into low pop severs at say the big NW airport, many of the times someone else was doing the same thing. Which resulted in a stand off. A great deal of the time the other player that was there, was not the fairest of fighters either. If they hop they combat log too, and pull other crap. So what I found is hopping is not the best way anyways, using a map is.

 

I think just looking at the DayZ TV map, and learning were items spawn that are in areas were most people don't look works better. If you can get over not having the Fancy M4 (Which lacks range anyways), then there's plenty of places else to look for weapons the NW airfeild and mil bases. I prefer the mosin anyways or SKS if I have too. They need to put the M16 a2 in game, sporting its 500 yard effective range, never been a huge fan of the m4. Its great for close end, but lacks the reach out and touch someone.  

Edited February 10, 2014 by CJFlint

[General Zod 1115]

Don't worry, server hoppers are as dumb as ever

Both logged in today in the same room when I was in the same building, both had nice gear. And they both DIED without a fighting chance. 

[CJFlint 357]

Don't worry, server hoppers are as dumb as ever

Both logged in today in the same room when I was in the same building, both had nice gear. And they both DIED without a fighting chance. 

And that's why they say, be careful were you log out lol