How to properly reintroduce .50s

[Dagwood 680]

Since the removal of the .50s, there have been many discussions about why or why not they should be introduced. Here are some pros and cons of reintroducing the weapon AS IS:

PROS:

Many players want it. Developers sometimes want to please the masses.

It has anti-material capabilities.

It has relatively higher range than any other weapons in the game currently.

It is capable of dropping any player or zombie in one hit.

CONS:

Many players also think that this weapon is over powered and throws off the balance of the game (devs can't please everyone as the weapon is now)

It can be used in close quarters combat like a shotgun or assault rifle.

It does not reduce mobility

It has very little recoil

It is semi automatic

It can easily be hidden in an assault pack...

Now I will tell you how I would like the weapon redone and introduced (IF it was to be implemented.

The best way to balance these weapons as I see it is to reduce mobility while wielding one. Here is how I would reduce mobility:

The weapon must be unpacked and assembled to operate (barrel must be attached to the rest of the weapon).

Recoil and muzzle sway are dramatically increased when firing from anything but the prone position.

Moving at anything other than "walk" speed causes the shooter to breathe heavily for a period of time.

Also, a specific kind of gun bag must be found if you want to carry it in a pack. This would make a player wielding one of these weapons stand out more obviously.

Having the weapon system spawn in 3-4 different pieces (barrel, rifle (no barrel), gun bag, and ammo) would make them much less common. Any bum can pick up a rifle. It takes more effort to collect multiple parts over time in order to implement the weapon.

These are some pretty broad ideas, but critical/supportive feedback can help us hone these down or scrap them.

[NagsterTheGangster 388]

I like it, well thought out through and through I think.

[thodouras95 21]

doesn't look bad, but I fear this might bring the opposite result, which would be making the gun useless for use outside entire squads where each player has a dedicated role.Anyway, personally I'm ok either way.

[Korsbaek 1778]

I like the idea of finding the rifle in pieces and having to assemble it.

[Dagwood 680]

And with the way weapons will exist in the world as vehicles (whatever that means haha) adding and removing the barrel would hopefully be possible

[Dagwood 680]

Other than covering one position, I don't know what use a single survivor would have for a .50

It should be a squad weapon like helicopters tend to be squad vehicles

[callsignBravo (DayZ) 323]

i think because there would be in dayz as rocket said, there would be some super rare itmes in dayz. So rare that you could play for years and only find one, and i think if this were implemented a .50 cal with ammo and a bag and maybe a special green or desert camo could be the rarest of these items.

[-Gews- 7443]

IMO it's impossible to "properly" reintroduce them because they don't fit the setting in the first place.

 

Anyways I don't see why anyone needs .50-caliber rifles. Anti-vehicular purposes? There are no armored vehicles to contend with, just use a PKM. A machine gun should be far more effective at quickly chewing through vehicle occupants than any AMR. Long-range sniping? Lots of other rifles to do that - longest confirmed sniper kill is with a .338 Lapua, and look at people shooting elk at absurd ranges with their .30-378s etc.

[dallas 5195]

Depends on what you're aiming for. The Road or Rambo 4.

[Wayze 549]

Since the removal of the .50s, there have been many discussions about why or why not they should be introduced. Here are some pros and cons of reintroducing the weapon AS IS:

PROS:

Many players want it. Developers sometimes want to please the masses.

It has anti-material capabilities.

It has relatively higher range than any other weapons in the game currently.

It is capable of dropping any player or zombie in one hit.

CONS:

Many players also think that this weapon is over powered and throws off the balance of the game (devs can't please everyone as the weapon is now)

It can be used in close quarters combat like a shotgun or assault rifle.

It does not reduce mobility

It has very little recoil

It is semi automatic

It can easily be hidden in an assault pack...

Now I will tell you how I would like the weapon redone and introduced (IF it was to be implemented.

The best way to balance these weapons as I see it is to reduce mobility while wielding one. Here is how I would reduce mobility:

The weapon must be unpacked and assembled to operate (barrel must be attached to the rest of the weapon).

Recoil and muzzle sway are dramatically increased when firing from anything but the prone position.

Moving at anything other than "walk" speed causes the shooter to breathe heavily for a period of time.

Also, a specific kind of gun bag must be found if you want to carry it in a pack. This would make a player wielding one of these weapons stand out more obviously.

Having the weapon system spawn in 3-4 different pieces (barrel, rifle (no barrel), gun bag, and ammo) would make them much less common. Any bum can pick up a rifle. It takes more effort to collect multiple parts over time in order to implement the weapon.

These are some pretty broad ideas, but critical/supportive feedback can help us hone these down or scrap them.

A 50 cal weapon in the SA will be like winning 5.000$ in the lottery. There is no need for balancing it, because there will be so few people out there having this weapon that not even 5% of the players will ever see a weapon like this.

[-Gews- 7443]

There is no need for balancing it

 

Yes there is, realism.

 

They shouldn't be able to blow up tanks, destroy 2-storey buildings, be wielded like they have no weight, or have approximately 20 times less recoil energy than in real life...

[AP_Norris 1018]

I like the idea of a gun bag.

They could do that with any gun IMO, it should be on your back either slung over your shoulder visibly with/ without gunbag or if you wanna pack it into a backpack it gets folded down.

Maybe with long barrelled guns like snipers the top would still poke out.

[DemonGroover 8836]

As has been said before i am all for .50s being introduced if Rocket is going to go ahead with his global economy on weapons/items. 

 

Make it so uber rare that only one or two are ever in existence across all servers.  And if the player who has it doesn't play for a few months it gets deleted from his inventory.

[MitchP 9]

I like the idea of a gun bag.

They could do that with any gun IMO, it should be on your back either slung over your shoulder visibly with/ without gunbag or if you wanna pack it into a backpack it gets folded down.

Maybe with long barrelled guns like snipers the top would still poke out.

This would be good, but unfortunately very few guns (rifles anyway) are made to be folded down into a backpack, obviously there are more than this but the only two I can think of are the Bagara scout and a Ruger .22, maybe these fold down type firearms could also be relatively rare?

[enforcer1975 1111]

I like the idea of a gun bag.

They could do that with any gun IMO, it should be on your back either slung over your shoulder visibly with/ without gunbag or if you wanna pack it into a backpack it gets folded down.

Maybe with long barrelled guns like snipers the top would still poke out.

They usually carry it in a bag because it's a pain in the ass to carry around even with a sling when they don't need it.

[AP_Norris 1018]

This would be good, but unfortunately very few guns (rifles anyway) are made to be folded down into a backpack, obviously there are more than this but the only two I can think of are the Bagara scout and a Ruger .22, maybe these fold down type firearms could also be relatively rare?

What if you just separate upper from bottom receiver? Would pretty much half the length of a lot of guns.

Doesn't M4 just have two pins holding top to bottom or something?

Edited October 25, 2013 by AP_Norris

[liquidmind 320]

I think the most valuable point made here is not really taken into consideration. The effects the rile would have on your ability to move.

 

In Arma2, having a Cal50 Rifle or HeavyMG, renders you unable to carry a backpack. That's not the case in dayZ. You can also shoot the cal.50 standing. you can run and you can hip-fire it. Those are all things that would not actually work in real life and make it very very easy to use these guns.

 

If you can only carry the As50, no Backpack. You cannot run with it, only walk and you can onlly shoot it while prone on the ground, combined with a chance comparable to winning 100mio$ in the lottery to get the ammo for it, the weapon would be balanced.

 

But I see the As50 as something like a helicopter or an armored vehicle. They should be possible, but if you have them, it should mean a lot. The Helicopter would be extremely overpowerd, but finally the AS50 would get it's anti-materiel purpose back. 

 

If you use one of your 3 bullets to take down a helicopter it's worth it. If you use it to shoot a zombie, you're an idiot.

[enforcer1975 1111]

You don't need that much. A system similar to A.C.E. is plenty enough. As soon as you find out you can't bunnyhop all day with a full backpack, an assault rifle in one hand and a .50 in the other and probably level VI body armor the game will balance itself.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Enforcer

[Inception. 9443]

Hmm, not sure if I want the AS%)s back in.

 

<3 you Fraggle.

[Wayze 549]

Yes there is, realism.

 

They shouldn't be able to blow up tanks, destroy 2-storey buildings, be wielded like they have no weight, or have approximately 20 times less recoil energy than in real life...

Sure, they should. But, as they will be as rare as finding a diamond in your cornflakes, there is no need for making them realistic. Like I said, these weapons will be so rare, that probably not even 5% of the players will see such a gun in their whole lifes, and I am not talking about the people who actually have these guns.

It would be good if they are realistic, sure. But it is not quite necessery. It is like having an airbag in a plane, first it is very, very unlikely that the plane will crash and secondly if it crashes the airbags won't help you anyway.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Wayze

[-Gews- 7443]

Sure, they should. But, as they will be as rare as finding a diamond in your cornflakes, there is no need for making them realistic. Like I said, these weapons will be so rare, that probably not even 5% of the players will see such a gun in their whole lifes, and I am not talking about the people who actually have these guns.

It would be good if they are realistic, sure. But it is not quite necessery. It is like having an airbag in a plane, first it is very, very unlikely that the plane will crash and secondly if it crashes the airbags won't help you anyway.

 

Just because they're super rare doesn't mean they shouldn't be "realistic".

 

If realism isn't necessary for rare weapons, they may as well introduce weapons and items like lightsabres, or Bigfoot, or the Noisy Cricket from Men in Black. They'd be super-rare and almost no one would ever see them, so why the need for any kind of realism?

 

 

 

 

Anyways my point is there is no reason not to make them realistic.

 

It's a matter of changing a few numbers.

 

[Wayze 549]

Just because they're super rare doesn't mean they shouldn't be "realistic".

Anyways my point is there is no reason not to make them realistic.

 

It's a matter of changing a few numbers.

You miss my point. I never said they shouldn't be realistic. And I know it is very easy to make them more realistic. But my point is that these weapons will be f*cking rare. The creator of this topic may never see such a gun in his whole life (besides youtube). I don't think it is even necessery to discuss it, because so few people are effected by it.

I don't think that people realise how rare things probably will be in DayZ SA. Dean talked about items that spawn like 10 times on the whole world. Hundrets of thousand players. How are the odds that you ever will hold such a weapon yourself? And I am pretty sure that a 50 cal weapon will count to these super rare items.

 

Dean knows what he is doing, he won't add scifi weapons into the game.

[-Gews- 7443]

You miss my point. I never said they shouldn't be realistic. And I know it is very easy to make them more realistic. But my point is that these weapons will be f*cking rare. The creator of this topic may never see such a gun in his whole life (besides youtube). I don't think it is even necessery to discuss it, because so few people are effected by it.

I don't think that people realise how rare things probably will be in DayZ SA. Dean talked about items that spawn like 10 times on the whole world. Hundrets of thousand players. How are the odds that you ever will hold such a weapon yourself? And I am pretty sure that a 50 cal weapon will count to these super rare items.

 

Dean knows what he is doing, he won't add scifi weapons into the game.

 

 

Assuming they made it in, yes, they would be extremely rare, so it would not be a "big" issue.

 

When you said "there is no need to balance them", you could either mean

[a] there is no need to introduce limitations that don't exist in real life (good) or

there is no need to fix the current problems with them (bad).

 

In any case, this is a topic about "properly reintroducing" 12.7x99mm anti-materiel rifles, so of course I'm going to talk about it.

[MitchP 9]

What if you just separate upper from bottom receiver? Would pretty much half the length of a lot of guns.

Doesn't M4 just have two pins holding top to bottom or something?

I have no experience with m4's and the other 'military' weapons, but Im guessing it would work somehow like that. Heres a picture of the ruger .22 I was talking about, its quite a simple concept really.

[AP_Norris 1018]

I have no experience with m4's and the other 'military' weapons, but Im guessing it would work somehow like that. Heres a picture of the ruger .22 I was talking about, its quite a simple concept really.

With the M4 it literally has two horizontal pins that can be taken out somehow holding the receiver together.

Remove top and the sights, barrel and chamber come with I think.

Not really sure what internals go which way.