Give me one logical reason why gear destruction will delay KOS

[mercules 1290]

Alright, I just skimmed thread and skipped a lot. But this degrading gear thing will have no impact on murder. Maybe kill on sight. But in reality, any bandit can rob the person and then kill them, it's that simple. Maybe they won't be shot instantly, but they are going to be robbed and then killed. So that logic in itself is invalid. 

This just makes killing people in the end shittier because now killing a bandit means you as a survivor will not get their gear. This is going to solve nothing. Still an interesting feature though. 

 

But wait.. the point was that it would have an impact on "KOS". You just stated it might have an impact on KOS then said "This is going to solve nothing." (after which both my grandmothers are yelling at me from the afterlife that you should have said, "This will not solve anything. "). It does alter some KOS, not the type that occurs not because the shooter is a douchebag who enjoys ruining other people's days nothing will change that, but those that hang out outside a town and "gear up" by shooting those that risked running through the town and taking what they found. 

[five3 4]

killing on sight is not something new and many games have tried to develop systems to reduce it, usually unsuccessful, if you think dayz is going to be the one to develop a magical system that makes people not want to murder each other, you're wrong.

 

if you want a strictly zombie survival game go play state of decay or some other single player game. if you're playing a multiplayer game and people have to option and means to kill other players, they're going to. get over it.

[mercules 1290]

killing on sight is not something new and many games have tried to develop systems to reduce it, usually unsuccessful, if you think dayz is going to be the one to develop a magical system that makes people not want to murder each other, you're wrong.

 

if you want a strictly zombie survival game go play state of decay or some other single player game. if you're playing a multiplayer game and people have to option and means to kill other players, they're going to. get over it.

 

You miss the point. We don't want people to not kill each other. What we want is for people to have a reason to not kill each other. There actually are a few and they are growing.  We want to explore the dark side of humanity but when everyone is in that dark side you really are not exploring it anymore you are just living it. 

[Razorblade2609 13]

Best way to stop KOS....Take all guns and anything that will hurt another player out of the game....give us a ball to throw at zeds and some room for some beans and call it a day.

 

For real I don't know if what OP said will be true are not as we will not find out till we are loaded into the server and running for our life.

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

This discussion is a bit silly.  Everyone is basing their opinions on the mod.  If the zombies are changed, the medical system changed, and the loot system changed, then how can anyone say what they will or wont do when the entire situation has changed?   

[mercules 1290]

This discussion is a bit silly.  Everyone is basing their opinions on the mod.  If the zombies are changed, the medical system changed, and the loot system changed, then how can anyone say what they will or wont do when the entire situation has changed?   

 

Well, I can't say what others will do as I won't have enough evidence to come to a valid conclusion. I can state, however, that item destruction will give me pause when it comes to shooting someone. 

[Vicco 123]

Well, I can't say what others will do as I won't have enough evidence to come to a valid conclusion. I can state, however, that item destruction will give me pause when it comes to shooting someone.

You've laid it out well. It will change the way "some" players engage in KOS. As others have said, it won't slow "them" down.

Somebody who gears by killing will kill more, possibly overcoming any reduction in KOS by others.

Headshots for lower gear, body or leg shots for head gear.

I still believe the best way to control KOS is safe zones, and turning PvP damage off on alternate hours, or half-hours.

Those who want to KOS will have plenty of opportunity.

Those who don't like PvP at all will have plenty of opportunity.

Those who like the tension of possibly being killed on sight will have plenty of opportunity.

Another option is a good humanity system.

However it's addressed, there will be plenty of wailing.

Anyway, whatever happens, happens.

I think the handcuff mechanic will be little used, except by sadists and masochists.

Not me.

[mercules 1290]

Somebody who gears by killing will kill more, possibly overcoming any reduction in KOS by others.

 

 

I seriously doubt it since anyone who kills for gear right now probably kills every person they see on the off chance they might have something useful on them like ammo the killer has but the victim hasn't found a gun for yet. I doubt they will kill more simply because I think they likely kill every opportunity they get and getting no additional opportunities means no additional killing.

[Vicco 123]

I seriously doubt it since anyone who kills for gear right now probably kills every person they see on the off chance they might have something useful on them like ammo the killer has but the victim hasn't found a gun for yet. I doubt they will kill more simply because I think they likely kill every opportunity they get and getting no additional opportunities means no additional killing.

My understanding is that bullets (and perhaps normal use) damage gear, including articles of clothing. Basic looting rule in games is to keep your gear top notch.

Don't know how the gear quality gradations will work out, but all looting games I've played where gear is damaged or of different qualities requires gear improvement or replacement.

In a PvP game that means more killing for gear by KOS'ers.

Think I saw in one vid something about bare feet or damaged shoes having bad effects on the player.

It would be a natural instinct for a KOS'er with damaged shoes to KOS, just to see if the dead player had better shoes.

But I admit I don't know those will be the actual game mechanics.

Edit: I missed your point about KOS being simply KOS.

I tend to agree, but if garb becomes necessary for survival, it may bring more players to the "dark side."

Edited October 7, 2013 by Vicco

[mercules 1290]

My understanding is that bullets (and perhaps normal use) damage gear, including articles of clothing. Basic looting rule in games is to keep your gear top notch.

Don't know how the gear quality gradations will work out, but all looting games I've played where gear is damaged or of different qualities requires gear improvement or replacement.

In a PvP game that means more killing for gear by KOS'ers.

Think I saw in one vid something about bare feet or damaged shoes having bad effects on the player.

It would be a natural instinct for a KOS'er with damaged shoes to KOS, just to see if the dead player had better shoes.

But I admit I don't know those will be the actual game mechanics.

 

What I was trying to say though is that players who KOS for gear are already killing everyone they meet for gear. There is no possible way for them to INCREASE their kills because they won't have any additional opportunities to kill MORE. So if the net effect is that some players kill less while the others can't really kill more since they already basically shoot 100% of those they meet, the KOS still goes down if only by those that it deters. :)

[me@kevinkraft.net 10]

Problem is that if one doesn't KOS, chances are high to get killed yourself. Avoiding other players is probably the best bet, make sure to keep your distance. Observe.

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

There's no hope in trying to curb the most blatant KOS players.  The blatant shoot on sight players would try to shoot you even if the world was on fire and he was about to die. Luckily they're a minority.   Unfortunately that minority has molded how everyone else interacts.  So it's about baiting the rest of us, the victims of conditioned fodder, into not shooting everything that moves.  Damaging gear will work for some of us.  We'll just have to see how that impacts the game's experience.  Maybe something more will be needed.  Personally, I'm going to store the most valuable gear in my vest/shirt pockets.   Eat it bandit.

 

Safezones?  Nah.

[Siberian (DayZ) 527]

There's no hope in trying to curb the most blatant KOS players.  The blatant shoot on sight players would try to shoot you even if the world was on fire and he was about to die. Luckily they're a minority.   Unfortunately that minority has molded how everyone else interacts.  So it's about baiting the rest of us, the victims of conditioned fodder, into not shooting everything that moves.  Damaging gear will work for some of us.  We'll just have to see how that impacts the game's experience.  Maybe something more will be needed.  Personally, I'm going to store the most valuable gear in my vest/shirt pockets.   Eat it bandit.

 

Safezones?  Nah.

the problem with that, is this SAs launch only really gets one try to either be a KoS problem game or not..

 

if the game comes out and people just pick up were they left off in the Mod and continue KoSing, i doubt this game will ever hit its stride like it deserves.

 

people will move on... cuz frankly if you want a FPS shooter, theres tons of games out there that do it WAYYYY better.

Edited October 8, 2013 by Siberian

[DemonGroover 8836]

The game wont be an FPS KoS deathmatch if there aren't many bullets.

 

I really hope bullets are worth their weight in gold. 

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

the problem with that, is this SAs launch only really gets one try to either be a KoS problem game or not..

 

if the game comes out and people just pick up were they left off in the Mod and continue KoSing, i doubt this game will ever hit its stride like it deserves.

 

people will move on... cuz frankly if you want a FPS shooter, theres tons of games out there that do it WAYYYY better.

 

 

Well, it seems like Rocket didn't want this to be a KoS game so I doubt he's going to let it.   The damaged gear mechanic is only what we know of for certain.  There could be other things in the works that we know nothing of that could impact and/or drive away the guys who can't think of anything other than 'kill' when they see another player.  The point is, we don't know how it's all going to work. 

 

I expect people to log in on day one, servers permitting, and attempting to deathmatch on the coast.   How successful they are is yet to be seen.  

[Capo 323]

OP knows shit all. who in their right mind wants to remove KoS entirely? dayz loses it's entire vibe without it. what i want, and what it seems most people want, is a reduction in KoS in early game, because early game is when you're most likely to be friendly, and when you're most likely to not actually have anything of value. once i'm geared then stay out of my crosshairs, because i'm trying to survive.

also, does it not stand to reason that if you shoot at someone, they might shoot back? even if everyone survives theres a possibility that your gear might be damaged/destroyed. If you really want to protect your gear you'd avoid engaging at all if possible. 

the devs are trying to achieve a reduction in KoS through not rewarding players for shooting everyone they see, not try and wipe it out as a playstyle, and that's what so many people are just not understanding. 

 

tl;dr OP makes assumptions based off themselves, gameplay mechanics they haven't tried, and the mod, which doesn't look like it's going to be the same game, and as a result may be conducive to different playstyles than KoS, we just don't know. in short, fuck you OP, you don't know what you're talking about and you've used your ignorance to make a 9+ page wank thread. 

Edited October 8, 2013 by Capo

[ryan__mc__@hotmail.co.uk 131]

OP knows shit all. who in their right mind wants to remove KoS entirely?

 

Well it seems alot of people want to remove "KoS" and a lot don't....btw killing and kos are 2 different things.

[Dekkymane 145]

For once, I will agree with the troll.

[Valtiel (DayZ) 6]

Trying too hard to discourage KoS/PvP in the standalone will be its downfall. What are you carebears going to do, build a house together? Log out and sit in the woods for a month then come back and marvel at how long your character has been alive?

 

 

 

Raises my blood pressure reading this idiocy.

[rossums 2190]

Trying too hard to discourage KoS/PvP in the standalone will be its downfall. What are you carebears going to do, build a house together? Log out and sit in the woods for a month then come back and marvel at how long your character has been alive?

 

 

 

Raises my blood pressure reading this idiocy.

There is a difference between PvP and KoS.

If you'd actually have played DayZ before it became widespread with this shit you'd know exactly what I was talking about - PvP was widespread but there weren't silly little kids constantly gunning down newspawns on the beach with the DMR they spawned with and facing no repercussions - it's nothing to do with being a carebear, it's everything to do with how it's totally fucking stupid and pretty much the OPPOSITE of what you should be doing in a survival sim.

There should be a trade-off for EVERY action you do, PvP included, the fact of the matter is that the current deterrent ( alerting zombies and nearby players) is simply not good enough and trivial to circumvent if you've played the game for longer than 5 minutes.

Nobody wants to remove KoS but there has to be a downside to whatever you do - it's first and foremost a survival game - limited ammo, tougher enemies, gear degradation and having to weigh the possible outcomes of a situation are part of that and weight the benefits of a situation and knowing when and how to engage another player are what make a good player.

Yes, there will be morons that still KoS for no reason, no they shouldn't be punished specifically for KoS but there should be more of a downside to wildly shooting people without assessing a situation - be that attracting nearby zombies or destroying possible loot that was on the dead player.

[Cerven 80]

I can't decide what's worse - Ozelot's insistence that his stance is the only, 100% correct stance - or the fact that people are honestly going to argue with him.

 

You're all arguing about a product that hasn't come out yet, that has unproven attributes. Is KOS going to happen? Yep. Is it going to happen with the same frequency that it does now? NONE OF YOU KNOW. Literally not one person here can say definitively one way or another what's going to happen until we get the SA, and can see what's actually going to happen. Having these arguments is seriously like pissing up a rope, and all of you really ought to find something better to engage in.

[Mos1ey 6301]

also, does it not stand to reason that if you shoot at someone, they might shoot back? even if everyone survives theres a possibility that your gear might be damaged/destroyed. If you really want to protect your gear you'd avoid engaging at all if possible. 

the devs are trying to achieve a reduction in KoS through not rewarding players for shooting everyone they see, not try and wipe it out as a playstyle, and that's what so many people are just not understanding.

 

That's a very good point that I hadn't considered.

[-Gews- 7443]

That's a very good point that I hadn't considered.

 

Well, yes, but it's something of a secondary consideration... if I have bullets flying towards my face I'm not going to be thinking about them hitting my backpack or night vision, eh? :lol:

[ryan__mc__@hotmail.co.uk 131]

You know what ...i truly hope that this does make people think twice about kos although i don't think it will at all...because if people are more cautious about gear and dont want to damage it ..then ill be able to kill people even easier...sweet thanks man :)

Edited October 9, 2013 by Massicor

[krihelion 175]

this just removes the need to hide corpses after i kill someone, excellent