Give me one logical reason why gear destruction will delay KOS

[dgeesio 1034]

you cant limit how people will be. it doesnt work ! people are trying to impose limits and with the main audience being young gamers often the worst reaction to being told what to do is the exact oppsite and rebel.

 

everything can work in theory its when you try it for real it doesnt ;)

 

KOS threads keeping idling fingers busy till standalone.

[LiftCore 25]

So you're saying that you will always have the exact gear that you want OR you will only rely on loot spawn to get the gear you want, and that every player you kill will always have nothing you want/need? No.

It may not stop KoSing, but it will make it more dynamic, and reduce it in the sense of "Damn he's got a mean helmet and backpack, I better shoot him in the legs" BAM BAM "Damn I missed and he got away". As opposed to just shooting him anywhere regardless of what you want in good condition that he has on him.

Do you get what I mean? It's not the solution, but it will make a difference.

[Ken Bean 175]

We've seen so many small changes which had huge impacts on the gameplay - why should have the item degration no impact?

Anyway, basicaly there are 3 directions it could take:

1) it's getting better

2) it's getting worse

3) no changes

The 3rd option is the least expected one for me. As we have seen, e.g. things like rising infection rates and decreasing Antibiotica spawns, changed quite a lot.

Edited October 14, 2013 by Ken Bean

[Ken Bean 175]

That is not the problem in my opinion. The problem is not the KoS but the reason for KoS. DayZ was a social experiment, player acted in ways they never acted before. It was very authentic. But even back these days DayZ had KoS. It was always present and in my opinion it was even worse in the beginning.

But the real problem is the motivation behind KoS. Back the days it was fear, like it is supposed to be. It is not something that you can fix if you want an authentic game. This is what DayZ teached us, people do not want to risk their lifes for others. They kill each other because that way the chances of survival is higher (well atleast that is what they think).

It was good that way. But today KoS is just fun. It has nothing to do with another player being a threat (in some cases yes but most of the annoying KoS is based on 12 years old who want to play BF with zombies). The player does kill another player just because otherwise it is boring. And this is very unauthentic, people in real life are very unlikely to do such things.

I don't know why people complain about it. Obviously any DayZ mod out there (even DayZero) has nothing to do with a survival game. And obviously the SA will have these core elements implemented. And believe it or not, even the first DayZ mod in its original form did lack these core elements for an authentic survival game. But even then it worked quite well, so I have no worries that in the SA the real KoS mentality will be back and probably it will even increase due to the even higher fear of dying.

Other reasons might be youtube and the age of huge parts of the player base which might reflect the mentality of some. Also that a life in DayZ doesn't have a huge value may add to it. I'd agree, that such kind of problems cant be fixed. Youtube will be there and kids probably as well. I'd also not suggest to keep them outside, but maybe the changed gameplay will make the difference.

[krihelion 175]

Heres how I look at it, I do not enjoy working with others unless in a cohesive unit to kill others(e.g ACE MilSim)

 

No matter how hard you make surviving on your own, there will always be a way because if there isn't thousands will not play this game and you will lose a massive portion or even entire type of player. I'll just come out and say it, im a selfish person. If I don't know you, or your story doesn't make me burst into tears, I don't give a fuck about who you are or what you do, this applies for games and real life, its just how I am hard wired. I am the actual bandit type, I do not kill others just cause that's what everyone does now or because i think this is game is really just a Call of 12 years olds boosted up on 5 hour energy and mountain dew, I do it because that is what I enjoy in the game. I enjoy the prospect of having to survive, but also being in a dynamic enviornment of other players, other people that you don't know how they will react. Will it be a jittery 10 year old high off sharpies who misses every shot from 100 meters with a M4? Or will it be the type that I worry about, the seasoned ACE player who will kill you from 1200 meters with DMR without even trying.

 

I'll say that yeah, right now the game just makes it seem like a massive deathmatch spawn in pick up a gun like in halo then go on a rampage, but I have not played in a LONG time. I never used maps, I never used overlays or anything like that. It was always an experience hoping to god there is a fucking lee enfield in the next building because I saw a truck full of lil wayne blasting kids driving down the road.

 

But, even I, who plays this game to kill others, will not just open fire in the SA if it is what it talks about being. If I have to count my bullets you best believe im not going to mow down someone who just started with 3 of the only 12 bullets I have left in my gun. If it is a hard game, it will balance out. Make it hard and KoS will decrease to minor skirmishes and not hour long battles because the guy I just killed respawned in elektro and ran into the school where i just killed him and looted his body. The systems will consume the KoSers who are here for a free ride.

 

I do not think intentional removal of KoS is the thing to do, like I said, make this game hard. Make it a constant struggle to survive, it will not remove KoS completely, but it will make KoS count more, guess what? That guy who just shot 16 shots at you with an M16 down the street? He is no longer an active shooter because his missed every shot and is out of ammo. You can escape, you could kill him or you could kidnap him rob him and leave him there. The system will consume the people that do not make good decisions, just make the game hard and a challenge to survive.

 

Lets not forget zombies, im not just going to kill you if zombies are actually hard in the SA, if they can run me down and kill me if I am not armed, im not going to waste my munitions on killing you for some clothes and maybe something useful, I might even have to make friends with you to get out of a situation. 

 

Tl;dr make the SA hard and the system will sort out KoS on its own, make it similar to how it is now and the KoS will just continue, but on a broader scale because it is a fully endorsed game made by an actual studio and not a single mod developer

[SomebodyEpic 87]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=u7L-7XREY08

[NagsterTheGangster 388]

There WILL be people who think twice because of degredation, also where they shoot them, if I have badass body armor and no helmet, im going to aim for the body, that alone makes you stop and think somewhat of your spenditure of ammunition.

[xx_fr0st-w0lf_xx 53]

People kill other people..................................for loot? 

 

Funniest joke of 2013. 

 

People don't kill for gear, they kill because there's nothing else to do with their gear. Item degradation won't affect anything one bit. Its foolish to think otherwise. 

[ratiasu@hotmail.co.jp 122]

Meh, I'll still shoot and take what isn't damaged. Might give me a reason to aim for the head more though.

[Etherimp 1323]

There's a really simple solution to this entire "problem" of KoS.. 

More than 1 person needs to be required to get to "end game" content, or to even make progress.

 

People in League of Legends or World of Warcraft don't group together and accomplish objectives because they like one another... They do so because they need to.

 

Car Engines and Main Rotor Assemblies should require more than 1 person to move.. Tires should encumber you and take up  your primary weapon slot (your hands). Try carrying a Firearm while you carry a wheel.. good luck.

 

Hordes of zombies should not be able to be handled alone.. People should have to group up in order to survive.

 

Some of the best friends I've met in the game have come because...

 

1. Either I or they needed a blood bag.

2. We both had the goal of getting a vehicle repaired and needed help.

3. We needed one another for survival.

 

 

Military grade weapons and ammo should be EXTREMELY rare. Household type rifles such as the CZ, Winchester, 9mm Pistol, Double Barrel Shotgun, Revolver, M1911, etc, should be "uncommon".. The most common weapons should be melee such as Axes, Bats, Crowbars, Lead Pipes, etc.

 

Ammo should be extremely scarce.

 

The most PVP happens in the following areas:

 

Elektro, Cherno, Balota, Stary, NWAF, NEAF..

 

What do all of these places have in common? 

 

Military spawns.

 

I am much less likely to shoot someone in Zelenogorsk Market than I am in Elektro Firehouse, or even Stary Sobor. Why? Because in Elektro I know they're looking for a weapon and/or PVP.. In Zelenogorsk, they may or may not have a weapon but odds are they are there looking for food, a map, a backpack, etc.. NOT a high caliber sniper rifle or assault rifle. This gives me the option to interact with them and them me.

 

Also, remove Side-chat.. Side-chat doesn't really add anything to the game and is unrealistic.

 

Add more ways for people to gain and lose humanity.. Doing group activities (such as carrying a car engine with someone else or giving them a weapon) should raise your humanity. Stealing should lower your humanity. Balance out the Humanity gain/loss, a bit. Make it relative, also..

 

IE - Hero with 5000 Humanity kills 1 Survivor who had 2500 humanity.. they take a -2500 humanity hit.. Same Hero kills a Survivor with 100 humanity, they only lose 100 humanity. 

 

Make bandits unable to gain humanity by helping/blood bagging other bandits.

 

Make it so you can distinguish hero/bandit/survivor when the player is wearing a ghillie suit or camo clothing.

 

This one may be difficult to implement, but somehow make it so a person firing back in self defense does not lose humanity. The first time I achieved Hero status I lost it when I tried to help someone out.. Mid-bloodbag, the guy turned around and started unloading a G17 into my chest, I shot him with my MKMod0 and killed him with only 1500 blood remaining.. I lost over 1000 humanity for killing him. This simply shouldn't happen.

 

Weapons should spawn with a random durability from 1 to 100.. As weapons are used, they break down... Jams become more common and eventually the weapon needs parts to be repaired. 

 

Just my 2c.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Etherimp

[dgeesio 1034]

if you have all your gear you need what will degrading gear matter if you dont need anything off the person in front of you bang.. bang... son KOS BARRPPPPPPP BRAPPPPP !

 

 

you spawn get your gear thats it set up for KOS till dead. you cant stop the KOS train ! chooo choooo.

[liquidmind 320]

First of all, reading this thread, I think we need to find 2 words distinquishing "KoS out of fear" and "KoS for fun".

 

In my opinion those two are fundamentally different. The first is a reaction out of fear. The other is an action out of boredom. 

 

 

Make bandits unable to gain humanity by helping/blood bagging other bandits.

 

Make it so you can distinguish hero/bandit/survivor when the player is wearing a ghillie suit or camo clothing.

 

Counter-Proposal: REMOVE bandit/hero system completely. If you argue for realism, that's the first thing that has to go.

 

These things have to be communicated through choice of gear. There are no friendly ghillie-medics. If you have a heavy gun and fewer bags, you are more likely to kill. etc.

 

Just think about every post-apocalyptic movie you've ever seen. You know who is out for trouble and who isn't by the way they gear up. The more negative side-effects every item has, the more balancing a player has to do, saying more about his intentions. 

 

I kinda always disliked the more than inaccurate labeling of "bandit" or "hero". they force player into artificial roles, removing their need to find a way to play for themselves. It blocks the experience you had.

 

This is one thing rarely mentioned. But in the early days, one of the good things about dayZ was, that there were no predefined rules how to play by the community. people wanted to find out for themselves. Now they decide which role they are going to play before they even spawned. and it's always Black or White. Nothing else. 

 

Edit: I'd go even so far to say that the game-mechanics should make it so that when you see someone with a small backpack and light gear, you can assume from that, that he has a base somewhere close, because he would switch to larger bags if he was looting far away, just to get the loot back to his base. Seeing how a player looks could give all the information about his intentions in this area. 

Edited October 22, 2013 by liquidmind

[mercules 1290]

if you have all your gear you need what will degrading gear matter if you dont need anything off the person in front of you bang.. bang... son KOS BARRPPPPPPP BRAPPPPP !

 

So... You shoot at the guy, he shoots back, You hit him in the chest and he hits you in the chest. Now the clothing in both areas is ruined and so is that drink you had. Oh well he should have... oh crap his chest clothing is ruined and there is a broken water bottle. Oh and he had a GPS in his hoodie and that is ruined too. 

Sure if you just snipe from a hill, but that won't be as easy anymore either. Zombies will be romaing the countryside. There will no longer be "No zombies spawns" up where the snipers like to camp. They will have to watch for Zombies and for players since they won't have their handy "Zombie Spawn Radar" down in town to tell them someone is in Elektro and what part they are most likely in. 

Gear Degrading won't ONLY be from taking damage. Running will wear out your shoes, I assume using a bat over and over will wear it down and they might even make it so your clothes slowly wear down. Sure you might still kill people as much, but it might not be from a hill overlooking Cherno/Elektro/NWAF with a sniper rifle but running into a house with zombies on your tail and taking a swing at another survivor with your hatchet hoping they don't kill you and you kill them before the zombies block the door behind you. 

[Rkelt 46]

There's a really simple solution to this entire "problem" of KoS.. 

More than 1 person needs to be required to get to "end game" content, or to even make progress.

 

People in League of Legends or World of Warcraft don't group together and accomplish objectives because they like one another... They do so because they need to.

 

Car Engines and Main Rotor Assemblies should require more than 1 person to move.. Tires should encumber you and take up  your primary weapon slot (your hands). Try carrying a Firearm while you carry a wheel.. good luck.

 

Hordes of zombies should not be able to be handled alone.. People should have to group up in order to survive.

 

Some of the best friends I've met in the game have come because...

 

1. Either I or they needed a blood bag.

2. We both had the goal of getting a vehicle repaired and needed help.

3. We needed one another for survival.

 

 

Military grade weapons and ammo should be EXTREMELY rare. Household type rifles such as the CZ, Winchester, 9mm Pistol, Double Barrel Shotgun, Revolver, M1911, etc, should be "uncommon".. The most common weapons should be melee such as Axes, Bats, Crowbars, Lead Pipes, etc.

 

Ammo should be extremely scarce.

 

The most PVP happens in the following areas:

 

Elektro, Cherno, Balota, Stary, NWAF, NEAF..

 

What do all of these places have in common? 

 

Military spawns.

 

I am much less likely to shoot someone in Zelenogorsk Market than I am in Elektro Firehouse, or even Stary Sobor. Why? Because in Elektro I know they're looking for a weapon and/or PVP.. In Zelenogorsk, they may or may not have a weapon but odds are they are there looking for food, a map, a backpack, etc.. NOT a high caliber sniper rifle or assault rifle. This gives me the option to interact with them and them me.

 

Also, remove Side-chat.. Side-chat doesn't really add anything to the game and is unrealistic.

 

Add more ways for people to gain and lose humanity.. Doing group activities (such as carrying a car engine with someone else or giving them a weapon) should raise your humanity. Stealing should lower your humanity. Balance out the Humanity gain/loss, a bit. Make it relative, also..

 

IE - Hero with 5000 Humanity kills 1 Survivor who had 2500 humanity.. they take a -2500 humanity hit.. Same Hero kills a Survivor with 100 humanity, they only lose 100 humanity. 

 

Make bandits unable to gain humanity by helping/blood bagging other bandits.

 

Make it so you can distinguish hero/bandit/survivor when the player is wearing a ghillie suit or camo clothing.

 

This one may be difficult to implement, but somehow make it so a person firing back in self defense does not lose humanity. The first time I achieved Hero status I lost it when I tried to help someone out.. Mid-bloodbag, the guy turned around and started unloading a G17 into my chest, I shot him with my MKMod0 and killed him with only 1500 blood remaining.. I lost over 1000 humanity for killing him. This simply shouldn't happen.

 

Weapons should spawn with a random durability from 1 to 100.. As weapons are used, they break down... Jams become more common and eventually the weapon needs parts to be repaired. 

 

Just my 2c.

I like your ideas, especially when we need people to work together for common goal

Does gear destruction minimize KOS? maybe...maybe not

In my personal opinion SA should be brutal, not hard. This will act like a filter to get unmature kids out of the game (i hope) 

Bandits will always be in Chernarus...thats the reality

Normal people will team up just to be safe from them, fight them and get loot, (hopefully)

[xx_fr0st-w0lf_xx 53]

2 things to do in dayz.

 

1) Get gear

2) kill people

 

Once you got gear the only thing left to do is......kill people. 

 

So if you think that people are going to stop shooting each other on sight to prevent damaging each others flashlights and painkillers then you are delusional. 

[Siberian (DayZ) 527]

2 things to do in dayz.

 

1) Get gear

2) kill people

 

Once you got gear the only thing left to do is......kill people. 

 

So if you think that people are going to stop shooting each other on sight to prevent damaging each others flashlights and painkillers then you are delusional. 

u basicly just made the entire development of SA pointless with your post..

 

Dean might aswell have just gave up after the dayz mod came out, if the community thinks like your post..

[Aporis 422]

2 things to do in dayz.

 

1) Get gear

2) kill people

 

Once you got gear the only thing left to do is......kill people. 

 

So if you think that people are going to stop shooting each other on sight to prevent damaging each others flashlights and painkillers then you are delusional. 

Only people who lack the creativity and Don't deserve to play that awesome game would do that.

[joe_mcentire 2074]

why less KOS?

• scarce loot and weapons
• even scarcer ammo
• so maybe more melee-fights
• ...which you can easily avoid by running away
• more PVE aspects that make surival more difficult
• short "time-to-death"

ergo

i think you die far to easy and more often to get the proper loot and gear to have even the possibility to seriously KOS..

 

and i think Melee-KOS sounds like fun :D

Edited October 26, 2013 by joe_mcentire

[h3l1x 327]

Short story.

 

Yesterday I was playing on a vanilla private hive. Had an m16a2 equipped with three mags, a glock with 4 mags, antis, morphine, food water, etc. Suddently I come behind some survivor equipped with a machete, repairing a car. I could have shot him easily but I didn't although he had a czech backpack and I had just an ACU. So I turn around some building, equip my hatchet, and start taking out zeds to clear the area. Said guy, comes around shoots me in the leg (I didn't understand it at the moment, though it was a zed), I fall down broken leg and all, still I manage to kill all zeds. This guy us waiting for me to bleed out, gets bored, comes and shoots me in the head. Found my corpse when I respawned, only thing he took were the antis and the mags.

 

Did he kill me because he was afraid I'd kill him? Nope, I had the chance to do it and I didn't. Did he kill me for my gear? Nope. Did he kill me cause he was a bandit? Nope, he had a survivor skin and having a car and good gear means he was playing for some time. Anyhow, I'm saying this just to prove that there were, there are, and there will always be people who KOS for no apparent reason, and that there are also people which will not KOS even if that means they might get stabbed in the back.

 

So OP and the whole "I kill not to get killed" excuse is pure garbage. Be a man and at least say you enjoy KOS, nothing wrong with that, bandits are a necessary part of DayZ. But generalising and saying everyone is KOS so you have no choice but to KOS too is pretty low.

[electroban 102]

whoops wrong area lol

Edited October 26, 2013 by electroban

[Aporis 422]

We have given so many "logical reason"s that this threads can stop living now. Case closed everyone stop posting and let this die

[Ozelot (DayZ) 394]

We have given so many "logical reason"s that this threads can stop living now. Case closed everyone stop posting and let this die

I've yet to see even one.

[beavis_5000 111]

I definately dont see gear degredation slowing down KoS. If anything it will make it worse imo. More reasons to kill.

 

Especially if there are things like degrading shoes and etc. We are gonna have people killing for shoes.

 

And if gear is destroyed when someone is shot then we that will just add to the KoS problem because all the people who kill others for loot are just gonna have to kill more people to get the loot they want.

 

Rare ammo cut down on KoS? I think not. This will just make people kill others for ammo.

 

Right now the main KoS issue is the people who KoS just because they have nothing else to do, not because people are over supplied.

 

Take all the supplies you want away from whover you want and they will still KoS.

[Aporis 422]

I've yet to see even one.

Thats because you see no logic in anything, removing guns totally, its gonna keep people killing on sight, removing melee weapons, people are going to kill each other on sight with tin cans, remove tin cans people are just gonna flame eachother to death. right?

Tell me puss. What would reduce/delay KOS on your point of view?

[Ozelot (DayZ) 394]

Thats because you see no logic in anything, removing guns totally, its gonna keep people killing on sight, removing melee weapons, people are going to kill each other on sight with tin cans, remove tin cans people are just gonna flame eachother to death. right?

Tell me puss. What would reduce/delay KOS on your point of view?

What you say is true, none of those things will reduce KOS because it does not address the actuality of how and why people are behaving when it comes to KOS. People KOS because they can, to put it simply.

 

To put it another way:

 

"The strong shall live and the weak shall die. That's the natural order of things. I can't understand why you have to help the weak, weak people are irrelevant. Shishio made me realize that the strong should live. He taught me to kill the weak and be aware of the strong people. Shishio gave me a sword, and if not for that sword I wouldn't be alive today. He also made me realize that I don't have a choice. If I don't kill them, they'll kill me. But the truth is, I never really wanted to kill anybody."